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Another mega mall for Fyshwick?

johnboy 27 September 2009 29

As a libertarian my heart thrills to see laissez faire economics driving retail planning in the ACT.

Let the chips fall where they may! Let the businesses that can’t attract custom fall by the wayside!

So imagine my joy to see a Canberra Times report that Harry Notaras Investments is planning to build another enourmous shopping mall out in Fyshwick!

    Property developers Harry Notaras Investments have lodged a building application for the centre with the ACT Planning and Land Authority.

    The development, described as a bulky goods retail centre, is on the corner of Iron Knob and Beaconsfield streets, next to the Direct Factory Outlet shopping complex. It will have 11 shopfronts spread over 7094sqm of floorspace and open-air and basement parking for more than 250 cars.

    If approved, the complex will be the second development on the 24ha EpiCentre industrial estate.

It’s so nice to see the dead hand of measured planning consigned to the dustbin of history. We’re not competent to do planning anyway.


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29 Responses to Another mega mall for Fyshwick?
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megaJames megaJames 12:52 am 09 Oct 09

H1NG0 said :

I went out to Brand Depot this weekend for the first time in a while and was pleasantly suprised. There seems to be many more new shops there. The last time I went there it was like a ghost town.

They must have opened very recently. I went out there about three weeks ago on a Saturday, which you’d think would be a peak shopping period and many shops were closed. Some look like they couldn’t be bothered opening that day but others were empty and gone. I could have easily counted at least half a dozen closed outlets.

I don’t think DFO is doing that well either. I’ve been there a few times on weekends and each time there were very few people around.

I really don’t think that Fyshwick can take another large shopping area. I always wonder about what happens to the small business owners that spend a fortune on fit out, stock, etc and then don’t make it past the first or second year. I wouldn’t like to be one of them
🙁

Clown Killer Clown Killer 2:42 pm 30 Sep 09

Twisted reasoning. Que?

Let’s try some simple questions. I’m typing slowly so it’s easier for everyone to keep up.

Does the ACT Government have planning control over the airport land? No. Should the airport have to comply with ACT Government planning requirements that do not apply to it? No. Does the ACT Government have a responsibility to provide appropriate infrastructure within areas subject to ACT planning regulations? Yes. Is the area surrounding the airport subject to ACT planning regulations? Yes.

As far as Commonwealth departments being located at Gungahlin, I guess the people making the decisions are voting with their feet. Chin up buddy, I’m sure someone will end up doing something wrong and end up betting relocated out your way.

Gungahlin Al Gungahlin Al 1:50 pm 30 Sep 09

Clown Killer said :

… the airport is on federal land and therefore can choose to ignore all local planning legislation.

Yes that’s right the airport does come under the Commonwealth jurisdiction. So whining about local, irrelevant, ACT planning laws would just be a waste of time. The airport fully complies with, and is governed by, the planning requirements of the Commonwealth government. For your argument to be even remotely relevant you’d have to also hold that ACT planning laws should also apply in other jurisdictions like NSW or Queensland … sounds stupid, but that’s exactly what you’re saying.

You can moan about infrastructure cost all you like, but the reality is that the ACT government has a responsibility to provide that infrastructure whether it wants to or not. The people working, shopping or commuting out at the airport are by and large ACT residents so they all benefit from the investment in infrastructure made by the ACT government.

Well what can I say about this sort of twisted reasoning? I’m happy to debate logical arguments CK. Let me know when you come up with some.

H1NG0 H1NG0 1:40 pm 30 Sep 09

Gungahlin Al said :

On Brand Depot v Marketplace: don’t think I suggested anything of the like. OTOH the displacement of officeworkers away from our town centre has most definitely impacted the viability of our retail businesses.

A can agree with that, but I think the lack of office space also has a large part to play. We have nothing that even remotely compares to the office buildings in Snow Town.

Punter Punter 1:09 pm 30 Sep 09

I agree Gungahlin Al (#14). Two days ago I saw a 4WD driving past DFO with “Annaconda” printed on the spare wheel cover. I drew the conclusion that Annaconda is scouting the area with a view to open an outlet, well, I’m hoping anyway.

Clown Killer Clown Killer 12:08 pm 30 Sep 09

… the airport is on federal land and therefore can choose to ignore all local planning legislation.

Yes that’s right the airport does come under the Commonwealth jurisdiction. So whining about local, irrelevant, ACT planning laws would just be a waste of time. The airport fully complies with, and is governed by, the planning requirements of the Commonwealth government. For your argument to be even remotely relevant you’d have to also hold that ACT planning laws should also apply in other jurisdictions like NSW or Queensland … sounds stupid, but that’s exactly what you’re saying.

You can moan about infrastructure cost all you like, but the reality is that the ACT government has a responsibility to provide that infrastructure whether it wants to or not. The people working, shopping or commuting out at the airport are by and large ACT residents so they all benefit from the investment in infrastructure made by the ACT government.

As far as the location of Commonwealth Government departments is concerned, well I guess Gungahlin will become a destination when we run out of other places to build on. Seems the Department of Defence would rather live out near Bungendore than South Yass. Even Tuggeranong is apparently more appealing than Gungahlin.

Gungahlin Al Gungahlin Al 11:59 am 30 Sep 09

I haven’t talked with Phil Knackstedt from Vinta Group about their project since the first half os the year (they also own the Woolies building), but when I last talked with him, it was still on hold until the market turns. They are intending to put in some (much needed) temporary footpaths around November. They were intending to review possibility of restarting the project every few months.

On Brand Depot v Marketplace: don’t think I suggested anything of the like. OTOH the displacement of officeworkers away from our town centre has most definitely impacted the viability of our retail businesses.

H1NG0 H1NG0 10:36 am 30 Sep 09

I don’t think you can blame Brand Depot for the state of the Gungahlin Marketplace and vice versa as they are targeting different markets. Brand Depot is trying to convince people that it is a factory style outlet for clothing and homewares and a place to drop off the kids while shopping where as the Marketplace is a hub for cafe’s, restaurants and general retail like Big W, Woolies, Coles, ALDI. I think the marketplace serves its purpose well to Gungahlin residents. Maybe when the Gungahlin Homemaker centre opens up, we will have even less of a need for Brand Depot, but at the moment, that seems to be going nowhere fast. I think development of that site has stopped all together. Maybe you can clarify the status of that project.

Gungahlin Al Gungahlin Al 9:25 am 30 Sep 09

Catch up CK: the airport is on federal land and therefore can choose to ignore all local planning legislation. And they have. To the great detriment of Canberra’s planning, of the Burley Griffin satellite city concept that should be serving us far better than it now does, and to great cost to ACT ratepayers/taxpayers who have to carry the additional infrastructure costs incurred by the airport’s out-of-place development.

This screw-up brought to you courtesy of the amazingly loose contracts of sale granted all airport buyers by the Howard Government, and the same government allowing department after department to relocate out there. All they had to do was starve the airport of tenants, and it would not have been anything like as big an issue.

And you have been on RA long enough to know that I’m the last person to parrot a government line on an issue.

Peter: I agree, and to that end, possibly our biggest achievement over the last 3 years has been to get 40 hectares of land that was designated for more townhouses rezoned to CZ2 Business Park. So when the tenants do come, they will have somewhere to go. I believe it should be Defence to kick it off, as we have and will continue to have more of Defence workers in DHA housing across Gungahlin. It makes sense – you know it does. CSIRO? Worthy of contemplation…

peterh peterh 2:11 am 30 Sep 09

Gungahlin will continue to grow, Al, the shifting of a department out there will only be a matter of time, look at centrelink in tuggeranong, for example. It would be fair to say that gungahlin would be a prime spot to move CSIRO to, allowing for the close proximity to the existing projects. perhaps it will be another node for centrelink, or the ATO, but I am certain that a big office building full of govt workers will be out there in the not too distant future.

Clown Killer Clown Killer 6:35 pm 29 Sep 09

… my comments were directed at the airport’s flouting of all Territory planning laws …

GA are you seriously suggesting that the airport has deliberately failed to comply with all the legal and planning requirements that are in force with respect to the land that they own? Or are you just parroting Standopes whinging little bitch-fest?

Gungahlin Al Gungahlin Al 4:36 pm 29 Sep 09

H1NG0 said :

I’m a bit disappointed by your comment Gungahlin Al. For someone who is supposed to be supportive of the Canberra community and in particular Gungahlin residents, the fact that you take pleasure in seeing these retailers struggle is a bit disturbing.

Hingo, my comments were directed at the airport’s flouting of all Territory planning laws (through their federal lease/contract), and thereby the damage that they have done to businesses that established in legitimately planned retail and light industrial areas.

This problem of course also extends to the immense damage they have done to the likelihood of us getting an employment base in Gungahlin itself. Think about it – I would estimate one third of the tenants that went into BBP would instead have ended up in Gungahlin if not for what the airport did.

While I have some sympathy for operators of businesses within Bland Depot, I place a far greater priority on putting my support behind the business operators in Gungahlin itself, who desparately need the clientele an office base would provide.

H1NG0 H1NG0 1:55 pm 29 Sep 09

I really like Brand Depot. Being a Gungahlin resident, it is an easy drive, they have plenty of parking close to the doors and some really good shops. Hopefully the Gloria Jeans will take over where Starbucks was so I can also relax and have a coffee away from the ankle biters in the Transit Lounge or whatver it is called.

I think Brand Depot has taken an upwards turn lately as they are marketing themselves quite well to parents who use the place as a sort of daycare centre.

I’m a bit disappointed by your comment Gungahlin Al. For someone who is supposed to be supportive of the Canberra community and in particular Gungahlin residents, the fact that you take pleasure in seeing these retailers struggle is a bit disturbing.

peterh peterh 12:40 pm 29 Sep 09

Gungahlin Al said :

I want an Anaconda.

It pleases me immensely on the rare occasion I venture into Brand Depot (there’s one decor shop there I like) to see it echoing with emptiness and absence of customers. Take your abuse of all good town planning and stick a Bramd Depot up your bank balance Snow family!

Therefore it pleases me immensely to think the DFO precinct could be extended and thereby further contribute to the Brand Depot demise.

Now if we could get the Federal ALP government to live up to Bob McMullen’s promise to stop further departmental relocations to the airport. I hear that Defence have signed up more space in those big empty ones near Bland Depot. Very disappointing Mr McMullen.

Al,
bagging out brand depot won’t solve their problems, they do good things in the community, like their vip parents club breakfasts, and i, for one, would be disappointed to see them go. It is a radical idea to have a mall warehouse out at the airport, as it caters for people who want to shop, and for those of us who want to catch up with clients for a coffee without paying through the nose for parking. Brand Depot will bounce back, it will just take a while.

The type of mall i don’t want to see out at the airport is the behemoths like Airport West, which would comfortably fit the canberra centre in its entirety inside, with extra space left over.

The numbers of retailers in Brand Depot will probably become more niche, and will allow us to have a better access to brands that aren’t here as yet.

Clown Killer Clown Killer 12:02 pm 29 Sep 09

Gungahlin Al, the BCF stores a remarkably similar to Anaconda.

Gungahlin Al Gungahlin Al 11:21 am 29 Sep 09

I want an Anaconda.

It pleases me immensely on the rare occasion I venture into Brand Depot (there’s one decor shop there I like) to see it echoing with emptiness and absence of customers. Take your abuse of all good town planning and stick a Bramd Depot up your bank balance Snow family!

Therefore it pleases me immensely to think the DFO precinct could be extended and thereby further contribute to the Brand Depot demise.

Now if we could get the Federal ALP government to live up to Bob McMullen’s promise to stop further departmental relocations to the airport. I hear that Defence have signed up more space in those big empty ones near Bland Depot. Very disappointing Mr McMullen.

emd emd 10:56 pm 28 Sep 09

Ah well, if there’s a chance of an IKEA then I have no complaints at all… although I’m not holding my breath for that either.

H1NG0 H1NG0 9:29 am 28 Sep 09

I went out to Brand Depot this weekend for the first time in a while and was pleasantly suprised. There seems to be many more new shops there. The last time I went there it was like a ghost town.

fox fox 7:43 am 28 Sep 09

I’m with you Punter!

GottaLoveCanberra GottaLoveCanberra 12:21 am 28 Sep 09

I wonder if it will get filled as quickly as that new one out in Tuggers near the NRMA.

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