Australia Day: Festival or Funeral?

I doubt the Aborigines in Perth had much to do with the Aborigines in Sydney such that perhaps the ‘invasion’ occurred at different times in different places… perhaps Australia Day should be shifted to the date of the Federation – the day we all became Australians?

John Hargreaves said :

You show a denial that we have displaced the original peoples here, and that we dispossessed them.

I have no idea who might have been “original” and who dispossessed them, but I do know we have here one of the finest and fairest nations on the planet and we should all be attempting to do our best to make it even better, not making up defective myths designed to drag it down through division.

Whoever these “originals” might have been are clearly long-dead, and they certainly did not benefit from one of the planet’s leading systems of government, free education and free healthcare.

We should all be thinking ourselves very lucky for being citizens of Australia.

dungfungus said :

John Hargreaves said :

HenryBG said :

“I just want people to stop and think for a minute on whether it is appropriate to celebrate when someone is in mourning.”

Right on.
We need to ensure all deaths are properly scheduled so as to not co-incide with anybody’s birthday, wedding, or work farewell party.

It’s just insensitive.

As for the other stuff: we all have ancestors whose primitive cultures were blown away by human advancement (and invasions). We need to get over it and stop encouraging people to wallow in deceptive nostalgia that does nothing except impede personal achievement. We are all Australians, and we all benefit from a society that provides education, healthcare and civilised governance, paid for by those who make a success of their lives. If more of us concentrate on achieving better success, we will all benefit from better-funded education, etc…

Good point, so long as history is not written by the latter day victors. The black arm brigade should hang their heads in shame. We just need to acknowledge the past and get on with the future in an embracing way not a denial way.

John, who would you class as the “victors”?
Surely not the descendants of the British who fought in the (phoney) “frontier wars” which is the latest sophistry thought up by the un-reconciliation industry.
Also, what is being “denied”?
You can’t have two bob each way on this issue.

The victors were indeed the British and their successors here. The wars were not phoney. Check Qld and NSW history. You show a denial that we have displaced the original peoples here, and that we dispossessed them.

trickster said :

I think any reasonable person should be able to see that Australia day as it’s currently celebrated is not the inclusive and unifying day it should be. Firstly, if indigenous Australians don’t think it’s appropriate, then it’s not. Secondly, I don’t feel like celebrating the founding of New South Wales anyway.

+1

Thanks, John – this is very well written. It is indeed a complex issue and one that I struggle to fully appreciate from my white, middle-class background, and I commend you for considering both sides of the issue. Trickster has summed it up well in their comment.

There are some good contributions already to this discussion, but I think, in general, when commenting on matters of Indigenous affairs, it’s helpful to refer to this article from The Shovel: ‘We’ll Decide When We’re Being Racist, White People Tell Black People’ – http://www.theshovel.com.au/2015/07/30/well-decide-when-were-being-racist-white-people-tell-black-people/

To be honest and while its not what the indigenous people would want to here, the reality is present day Australia is essentially what Australia Day represents. I know its not exactly the most pleasant day in terms of indigenous Australians, but its the day that fits best for Australia as it is now.

What needs to be done is more acknowledgement of indigenous Australians and how it negatively affect them. Much like Anzac day is solemn, there should be a period on Australia day as a show of respect. Maybe a minutes silence also. the day should be celebrated and also treated for what it actually represents. the right wing extremists can also but out, because they don’t represent the majority of Australians either, certainly not me who was born here from Australian descendants as far back as the 1840’s, so I’m pretty Aussie and this integration crap has no place in this country.

Get rid of the divisive rubbish and celebrate and mourn the day equally.

dungfungus said :

So, Australia was invaded by convicts?
Give me a break!

I’m not endorsing the word ‘invasion’. I’m saying if you’re going to use the word ‘invasion’ there are a couple of things to consider. Now go have your break. It looks like you need one.

Fair call.

Although my family came out here as a result of the first fleet – so we didn’t really have a choice. I celebrate Australia Day because they overcame massive challenges and made this country our own. I’m a proud Australian and I’m sick of being told I can’t celebrate my family arriving here.

Here’s a plan – if you allow me to go back to the UK and claim the land where my family was originally from, I’ll listen to you. The British won’t allow me to have a passport to travel to live in the land of my ancestors despite the fact I now exist here as a result of their ruling’s…

I live here. Stop making me feel like I’m doing something wrong by celebrating that.

Postalgeek said :

It might be worth remembering that the First Fleet comprised mainly of people involuntarily (whether it was their own fault or not) removed from their own country.

We can call the arrival of the First Fleet an invasion, but the Aboriginals can’t claim to be special in that regards, and their plight pales somewhat in comparison to, say, the invasions Britain itself has endured for thousands of years. Britain’s history is an ongoing story of acculturation, having been invaded/colonised by Celts, Romans, Saxons, French, Normans, almost by the Spanish, and almost by Germans as recently as 1940. An unknown, but fair to say sizeable, number of people have suffered, been dispossessed, and died in these invasions and colonisations.

Perhaps, to put it in perspective, there is cause to celebrate the fact that the Australian indigenous population was spared from cultural ingress until 1788.

Acknowledge the mistakes (with the benefit of hindsight) and remember the deaths and suffering.

But were one to go so far as to suggest that the First Peoples should have been spared from the ongoing course of acculturation across the planet, well, you may as well say a tsunami should flow around a child. It was going to happen, it was just a matter of who and when. 1788 was the year they joined the club. Apologising for it seems almost vain, as if it could have been prevented.

I understand Indigenous people being unenthused about the initiation – it wasn’t, and isn’t, pleasant – but time to step back and look at the bigger picture. Whether you’re left-wing wearing a black armband for past infringements or a right-wing xenophobe fearing muslims/Chinese/whatever, it’s a similar resistance to the fact that dominant cultures override weaker cultures and have been doing so for thousands of years and it will continue. Celebrate what you have while you have it.

So, Australia was invaded by convicts?
Give me a break!

SunRider said :

You people are talking as though the exploitation, poverty and disadvantage of Australian Indigenous people is a thing of the distant past. It is not. There is plenty to mourn. Before you protest, do yourself a favour and visit a remote Indigenous community. If it doesn’t make you physically ill and change your view of Australia, then maybe there is more to mourn than I thought.

Successive governments have thrown billions of dollars at the perceived poverty and disadvantage of Australian indigenous people but the squalor of the people in some remote communities remains.
The outcome in the public arena is that all of the problems faced by Aboriginal communities are the governments’ fault and it is the governments’ responsibility to fix it.
Individual responsibility is never mentioned – it’s easier to blame the government.
As I understand it and as Noel Pearson once suggested, the people “affected” should move to the cities. It’s time for some “tough love”.
What is your suggestion besides mourning and trying to feel ashamed to be an Australian?

You people are talking as though the exploitation, poverty and disadvantage of Australian Indigenous people is a thing of the distant past. It is not. There is plenty to mourn. Before you protest, do yourself a favour and visit a remote Indigenous community. If it doesn’t make you physically ill and change your view of Australia, then maybe there is more to mourn than I thought.

Most of the food I’ve eaten came from Australian soil. The water I drink comes lands in Australian catchments. That soil has been there for millions of years and its rained there just as long.
That soil has gone into my body and makes up all of my mass.
Australia is such a big melting pot of culture that I don’t belong anywhere else in the world.
How much more Australian do I need to be. 99.99% of my atoms are Australian.

There’s no difference in what we are, its just my ancestors took spent more time in Europe and made more technical advances before coming here. We were all born out of Africa, and the currently culture is about 250 years old vs 3000 for Indigenous Australians.

It might be worth remembering that the First Fleet comprised mainly of people involuntarily (whether it was their own fault or not) removed from their own country.

We can call the arrival of the First Fleet an invasion, but the Aboriginals can’t claim to be special in that regards, and their plight pales somewhat in comparison to, say, the invasions Britain itself has endured for thousands of years. Britain’s history is an ongoing story of acculturation, having been invaded/colonised by Celts, Romans, Saxons, French, Normans, almost by the Spanish, and almost by Germans as recently as 1940. An unknown, but fair to say sizeable, number of people have suffered, been dispossessed, and died in these invasions and colonisations.

Perhaps, to put it in perspective, there is cause to celebrate the fact that the Australian indigenous population was spared from cultural ingress until 1788.

Acknowledge the mistakes (with the benefit of hindsight) and remember the deaths and suffering. But were one to go so far as to suggest that the First Peoples should have been spared from the ongoing course of acculturation across the planet, well, you may as well say a tsunami should flow around a child. It was going to happen, it was just a matter of who and when. 1788 was the year they joined the club. Apologising for it seems almost vain, as if it could have been prevented.

I understand Indigenous people being unenthused about the initiation – it wasn’t, and isn’t, pleasant – but time to step back and look at the bigger picture. Whether you’re left-wing wearing a black armband for past infringements or a right-wing xenophobe fearing muslims/Chinese/whatever, it’s a similar resistance to the fact that dominant cultures override weaker cultures and have been doing so for thousands of years and it will continue. Celebrate what you have while you have it.

John Hargreaves said :

They have and have been largely ignored. Ask Pat Dodgson, ask Mick Dodgson, ask any one at Winnunga Nimitija, ask anyone at the “Embassy” outside OPH.

We don’t need yet another “special” day that would undoubtedly become yet another public holiday. I don’t see a need for one either – what would such a day even be about? You’re a cute cultural relativist though.

Hey All,

In a genuine debate people should be able to see both sides of an argument and arrive at a considered position.

‘bigcohuna1’ – Not particularly helpful, but thanks for the contribution.
‘HenryBG’ – While I agree with the sentiment that we should concentrate on individual opportunity and be grateful for the opportunities provided to us by living in Australia, you can’t simply dismiss 50,000 years of continuous cultures and societies as ‘deceptive nostalgia’. Pride in yourself and your community is a key part of individual success.
‘miz’ – Maybe go to Ireland and ask them to ‘draw a line under it’.

I think any reasonable person should be able to see that Australia day as it’s currently celebrated is not the inclusive and unifying day it should be. Firstly, if indigenous Australians don’t think it’s appropriate, then it’s not. Secondly, I don’t feel like celebrating the founding of New South Wales anyway.

Surely we can all celebrate what Australia means to us equally as well, on any other of the 364 days of the year.

T.

John Hargreaves said :

We just need to acknowledge the past and get on with the future in an embracing way not a denial way.

John Hargreaves said :

Masquara said :

Wouldn’t it be up to Indigenous Australians to request a First People’s Day?

They have and have been largely ignored.
…
We have NAIDOC but I think we could go further.

And there you have the confusion of well-meaning liberals in our society: they want to have their cake *and* eat it.

A society that is “embracing” has no place for the division inherent in its segments reviling each others’ celebrations and demanding seperateness.
Hence the failure of the silly idea that was “multiculturalism”: encouraging seperateness precludes everybody from being “embraced” by society in general.

One of the first steps towards being “embracing” will be for the Left to abandon the shockingly offensive label of “first australians”, “first nations” or “first peoples”.
This is like our offensive 1950s “new Australians” expression, on steroids.

Imagine if our constitution had overtly defined catholic Australians and protestant Australians as inherently seperate groups, instead of wisely adopting a form of the United States’ Establishment Clause (s116)?

I’m looking forward to the forthcoming referendum on this matter, because a simple well-placed 30-second advertisement highlighting the reality of constitutionally-mandated ethno-cultural division will cause it to fail, utterly.

John Hargreaves said :

HenryBG said :

“I just want people to stop and think for a minute on whether it is appropriate to celebrate when someone is in mourning.”

Right on.
We need to ensure all deaths are properly scheduled so as to not co-incide with anybody’s birthday, wedding, or work farewell party.

It’s just insensitive.

As for the other stuff: we all have ancestors whose primitive cultures were blown away by human advancement (and invasions). We need to get over it and stop encouraging people to wallow in deceptive nostalgia that does nothing except impede personal achievement. We are all Australians, and we all benefit from a society that provides education, healthcare and civilised governance, paid for by those who make a success of their lives. If more of us concentrate on achieving better success, we will all benefit from better-funded education, etc…

Good point, so long as history is not written by the latter day victors. The black arm brigade should hang their heads in shame. We just need to acknowledge the past and get on with the future in an embracing way not a denial way.

John, who would you class as the “victors”?
Surely not the descendants of the British who fought in the (phoney) “frontier wars” which is the latest sophistry thought up by the un-reconciliation industry.
Also, what is being “denied”?
You can’t have two bob each way on this issue.

John Hargreaves said :

Masquara said :

Wouldn’t it be up to Indigenous Australians to request a First People’s Day? Perhaps, John, you could have invited one of your Indigenous friends to write this piece, and stood back yourself. That would have been appropriate given your sentiments.

They have and have been largely ignored. Ask Pat Dodgson, ask Mick Dodgson, ask any one at Winnunga Nimitija, ask anyone at the “Embassy” outside OPH.

We have NAIDOC but I think we could go further.

I think you mean “Dodson” not “Dodgson”? The Dodsons are all over the media all the time, very vocal and much listened to, and participating in all sorts of forums. The Tent Embassy isn’t representative of Indigenous Australia and hasn’t had a legitimate voice on behalf of Australia’s Indigenous people since decades ago.

Masquara said :

Wouldn’t it be up to Indigenous Australians to request a First People’s Day? Perhaps, John, you could have invited one of your Indigenous friends to write this piece, and stood back yourself. That would have been appropriate given your sentiments.

They have and have been largely ignored. Ask Pat Dodgson, ask Mick Dodgson, ask any one at Winnunga Nimitija, ask anyone at the “Embassy” outside OPH.

We have NAIDOC but I think we could go further.

HenryBG said :

“I just want people to stop and think for a minute on whether it is appropriate to celebrate when someone is in mourning.”

Right on.
We need to ensure all deaths are properly scheduled so as to not co-incide with anybody’s birthday, wedding, or work farewell party.

It’s just insensitive.

As for the other stuff: we all have ancestors whose primitive cultures were blown away by human advancement (and invasions). We need to get over it and stop encouraging people to wallow in deceptive nostalgia that does nothing except impede personal achievement. We are all Australians, and we all benefit from a society that provides education, healthcare and civilised governance, paid for by those who make a success of their lives. If more of us concentrate on achieving better success, we will all benefit from better-funded education, etc…

Good point, so long as history is not written by the latter day victors. The black arm brigade should hang their heads in shame. We just need to acknowledge the past and get on with the future in an embracing way not a denial way.

dungfungus said :

How about the “First People” celebrate the fact that Australia was colonised in 1788 by the British and not one of the other European countries building empires at that same time.
Colonization was going to happen. Fortunately, the British were in the first here. If perhaps the Spanish or Portuguese got here it would have been vastly different.
It is totally mischievous of you to say Australia was invaded also. If it was there would have been a flotilla of warships and soldiers accompanying the first fleet and history (which could be changed if we let it) doesn’t reflect this was the case.
I am sick of the left’s black armband view of Australia’s early history. Time to tell the indigenous people and their government funded advocates to move forward.

“If perhaps the Spanish or Portuguese got here it would have been vastly different” indeed. Given enough time the Yanks would have claimed the joint. And we could all be driving around in Oldsmobiles, or Cadillacs. Dang.

I think what you have written is fantastic and completely agree.
I think some of the people commenting aren’t aware of the full spectrum of the issue at hand so its of course difficult for them to fully comprehend your message. I do not think its about “having a chip on your shoulder” about the past but I think its about having recognition of the atrocities that did happen and appreciation that for some it is a mourning period.
Its not a matter of “okay this happened, we have done the best to fix it, move on” because Australia is still in the stage of taking responsibility for what occurred and still trying to close the gap between Indigenous Australian and non Indigenous Australians..

How about the “First People” celebrate the fact that Australia was colonised in 1788 by the British and not one of the other European countries building empires at that same time.
Colonization was going to happen. Fortunately, the British were in the first here. If perhaps the Spanish or Portuguese got here it would have been vastly different.
It is totally mischievous of you to say Australia was invaded also. If it was there would have been a flotilla of warships and soldiers accompanying the first fleet and history (which could be changed if we let it) doesn’t reflect this was the case.
I am sick of the left’s black armband view of Australia’s early history. Time to tell the indigenous people and their government funded advocates to move forward.

miz said :

You don’t have to ‘lose’ your culture to be Australian; but all Australians need to accept that we are a blended culture now, not a culture of divergent parallel lines.
Sure, there were practices that occurred in the past that were not great; but – they are in the past. A lot of ‘white’ people have had experiences and backgrounds eerily similar to our Indigenous compatriots.
For example, I’m of Irish descent but it is not possible to reclaim my native, ancestral lands. And in the past, family members of mine were ‘taken’ by ‘the welfare’ and institutionalised and made to work for free (for a religious organisation) for years. Those were the times. There was a lot of unpleasantness, unfairness and prejudice about.
I honour the First Australians and their culture, but how long must we as a nation cringe about the past? We have already had national apologies, land rights and native title. Surely our Indigenous brothers and sisters are Australian like the rest of us? Life is what you make it – let’s draw a line under it and be Australian, not this or that isolated, hard-done-by culture with a never-ending grievance.

Some good points here. Many people of all cultures have lost things from our past, but most of us have now accepted that is the past and we now have no claim to it. Time moves on. I also have an Irish example in my family. My great grandfather and his brother thought they had a family claim on a property in Ireland, but someone else (likely unrelated) inherited it instead. Not just a couple of acres either; it was a huge property, with an historical 15th century building. The family long ago accepted we now have no claim on this land.
I also have a friend whose family lost property in eastern Europe, and they have now accepted they won’t get it back. Apparently one of their houses in now a museum.
This loss of land has happened for centuries, all around the world.

Wouldn’t it be up to Indigenous Australians to request a First People’s Day? Perhaps, John, you could have invited one of your Indigenous friends to write this piece, and stood back yourself. That would have been appropriate given your sentiments.

You don’t have to ‘lose’ your culture to be Australian; but all Australians need to accept that we are a blended culture now, not a culture of divergent parallel lines.
Sure, there were practices that occurred in the past that were not great; but – they are in the past. A lot of ‘white’ people have had experiences and backgrounds eerily similar to our Indigenous compatriots.
For example, I’m of Irish descent but it is not possible to reclaim my native, ancestral lands. And in the past, family members of mine were ‘taken’ by ‘the welfare’ and institutionalised and made to work for free (for a religious organisation) for years. Those were the times. There was a lot of unpleasantness, unfairness and prejudice about.
I honour the First Australians and their culture, but how long must we as a nation cringe about the past? We have already had national apologies, land rights and native title. Surely our Indigenous brothers and sisters are Australian like the rest of us? Life is what you make it – let’s draw a line under it and be Australian, not this or that isolated, hard-done-by culture with a never-ending grievance.

“I just want people to stop and think for a minute on whether it is appropriate to celebrate when someone is in mourning.”

Right on.
We need to ensure all deaths are properly scheduled so as to not co-incide with anybody’s birthday, wedding, or work farewell party.

It’s just insensitive.

As for the other stuff: we all have ancestors whose primitive cultures were blown away by human advancement (and invasions). We need to get over it and stop encouraging people to wallow in deceptive nostalgia that does nothing except impede personal achievement. We are all Australians, and we all benefit from a society that provides education, healthcare and civilised governance, paid for by those who make a success of their lives. If more of us concentrate on achieving better success, we will all benefit from better-funded education, etc…

Nope