Cats in apartments

VG, you really have no idea what you are talking about here.

Current AWAs could have been abolished but it was determined to be politically too fraught to do so. That was a political consideration.

In any event given that under the tenancy act we can all get out of our leases rather easily, regardless of what nonsense might have been typed into the lease (most of which are typo-ridden for those who bother to read through them) it won’t be too hard to get a new lease under any new laws.

So once all new leases have to address companion animals under reasonable terms (assuming a sensible politician picks up this strong sleeper issue) renters either wait to the end of the year or move pretty much as soon as they can organise it, getting what they want.

Even so, a motivated government can choose at any time to legislate away any contract provision at any time, it just might have to compensate.

Now you could, if you were sensible, argue that the political dangers of forcing landlords to accept companion animals would be dangerous for a major party.

But that is why we have elections.

I feel sorry this wanker who rolls up at night in bed, affectionatly snuggling his rule book when he could otherwise be patting a nice little pussy.

Poolroom.

Correct JB, FUTURE leases. A bit like the recent Federal Govt changes didn’t affect CURRENT AWA’s.

If the lease doesn’t say no pets then it depends on whether what the body corporate says could be interpreted as some sort of contract. I will say that tenancy law isn’t a field of expertise of mine, and someone who specialises in it would be best to give advice. That being said if you signed something you would be screwed. Even not signing something can hurt if you. If you were made aware of body corp conditions, still didn’t sign anything, and it can be proven you were made aware of it then it would operate nearly the same as if you signed a contract. This is my interpretation of contract law, so a specialist may be best to advise.

I would hate to see the OP expend a lot of money fighting a battle that can’t be won. The outcome would only be untidy for all and when the lease next came up for renewal they would be politely asked to leave. I do hope it works out for the OP though, I would just hate to see them get burnt worse than they already have in the hope that someone somewhere will change things to help them out

But vg – what if there isn’t a ‘no pets’ clause in the lease, as has been stated?

And every revision to the tenancy act can over-ride all future leases.

It happens every what? 10 years?

johnboy said :

vg said :

You can ask your MLA all you like but its a little thing called contract law. The landlord can put anything they like in the contrac. If you sign the contract you are accepting its terms. You are not forced to sign ergo the conditions stand.

To be honest if/when I have an investment/rental property no pets will be one of the clauses. Sure I guess a lot of pets have no real impact on a property but the clause isn’t in there for those pets, its for the people who’s pets cause damage to a property who don’t really care.

This is a battle you would fight and lose

Wow VG, you’re absolutely and completely wrong about this.

Legislation can over-ride contract law and does so frequently.

Consumer protection, public liability, and workplace relations being just three areas where this already happens on a daily basis that spring freely to mind.

Read what I wrote JB. I stated legislation can over-rule contract law under certain conditions. i.e. the contract is illegal, etc etc. There are a number of situations where this can occur.

This is not one of them.

“Consumer protection, public liability, and workplace relations being just three areas where this already happens on a daily basis that spring freely to mind.”

As I stated previously, but a legal, standard lease is not one of the above.

If you don’t believe me go and fight it and see what happens. Cost you a fortune, get punted out of the house, pay their costs etc etc

Were you provided with a copy of the BC rules when you signed the lease? One of the clauses of the lease is that you abide by the BC rules. They should have given you a copy of them at the time. I don’t know if you’d have any luck if that didn’t happen.

Pandy said :

Bec the law breaker.

What law is she breaking?

Her lease does not prohibit pets, and she signed it in good faith.

Now that she has been informed that there is a problem with the body corporate she is proceeding with several courses of appropriate action, including having her pet minded elsewhere while the issue is sorted.

Bec the law breaker.

Ant, tenacy law prevents discrimation that you are a woman with kids…. oh thats right you don’t like kids.

Much as I am an animal lover, if I had an investment property that I was renting out then I would have no choice but to say “no pets”. I am seriously allergic to cats (though I find it hard to not want to pat one as I do like them) but find that I couldn’t just say “no cats” as that would be seen as playing favourites to someone with a dog. I would hope that whoever did rent the property didn’t lie to me as I’d be able to tell within an instant of coming in to inspect that there was a cat there.

I am really sorry to the OP that the BC forbids pets. I’ve been in that situation when I lived in Sydney, and so was forced to keep my gorgeous dog (a shitzu) at my parents. I asked, pleaded, begged, fought, yet the BC remained firm. I ended up moving out.

As someone mentioned before, find someone to take your cat in until you can find somewhere else. I would help except my allergies and my dogs here wouldn’t be in agreement.

Yes, I agree.

You may even be able to persuade the body corporate to vote to allow pets under certain circumstances, like cats being kept indoors etc.

This would still enable them to deal with nuisance animal behaviour like excessive barking, while allowing for responsible pet ownership in the complex.

Bec, why not get local radio and A Current Affair or Today Tonight onto it? They LOVE stories about nasty BCs picking on animal lovers. Go on, get it out there. Tell the BC first though – they’d probably rather back off than have to defend themselves on the telly …

Good on you, Bec. Reading the original post, I was very worried that the cat was going to end up at the RSPCA. I see that you could never do that. For many of us, our animals are members of the family. When they get sick, spending thousands on their treatment is not questioned, becuase they are members of our family and we can’t do anything else.

To have others putting a blanket ban on having animals living with us, for no good reason, is outrageous. I wonder if it’s illegal to put in one of those sacrosanct contracts that children are not allowed? What’s the difference, in terms of potential damage and noise, between children and pets?

This situation really needs to change. If a tenant is causing damage to a property through any actions, then this should be picked up at inspection and the tenant compelled to fix it. This up-front ban though, is unreasonable.

vg said :

You can ask your MLA all you like but its a little thing called contract law. The landlord can put anything they like in the contrac. If you sign the contract you are accepting its terms. You are not forced to sign ergo the conditions stand.

To be honest if/when I have an investment/rental property no pets will be one of the clauses. Sure I guess a lot of pets have no real impact on a property but the clause isn’t in there for those pets, its for the people who’s pets cause damage to a property who don’t really care.

This is a battle you would fight and lose

Wow VG, you’re absolutely and completely wrong about this.

Legislation can over-ride contract law and does so frequently.

Consumer protection, public liability, and workplace relations being just three areas where this already happens on a daily basis that spring freely to mind.

Good on you, Bec, and good luck!

I would be very interestested to hear how you get on.

If you need anyone to write a letter to the Canberra Times or the Minister on the subject, I would be happy to help. I especially agree that it is not right that the old lady lost her cat.

Thanks for your responses. They’re mixed but overwhelmingly positive. I was very emotional when I wrote as I’d just got the notice, so your comments really helped (my keyboard was flooded with tears!)

Mine is obviously not the worst case and I cannot believe a person took it so far as to deprive an elderly person of their pet on a mere technicality. As for the person who suggested that they’d harmed a cat, that is appalling and you should be charged with animal cruelty.

If I can’t keep him I will send him to a relative interstate and will try harder to find a pet friendly place next lease, as mentioned they’re usually dodgy places!

Just a couple of points though, the cat is in-doors always, I would never have him roaming about because I am big on Australian native wildlife and all animals. He goes out onto a balcony from time to time but can’t get onto the ground.
I doubt the owner would have problem with the cat, who no doubt will have a heart, and there’s nothing in the tenancy lease to say we can’t have a pet. I’m going to approach her first but I’m sure the BC will have the final say.

I will take the issue further with my local MP, futile as it may be. Thanks again for your messages.

Disposed of it? Please explain???

Mmmmm… satay…

You can ask your MLA all you like but its a little thing called contract law. The landlord can put anything they like in the contrac. If you sign the contract you are accepting its terms. You are not forced to sign ergo the conditions stand.

To be honest if/when I have an investment/rental property no pets will be one of the clauses. Sure I guess a lot of pets have no real impact on a property but the clause isn’t in there for those pets, its for the people who’s pets cause damage to a property who don’t really care.

This is a battle you would fight and lose

If it is just the landlord you might be able to negotiate.

You could explain that the animal is well-behaved, maybe even get a reference if possible, and even offer them a bit more rent if they are willing to alter the terms of the lease to allow a pet. A higher rental actually adds value to the property, and a landlord may even be trying to figure out what they can do to value add to the tenant.

If it is the body corporate, I agree with johnboy.

It’s an election year people. Hook up with some other like-minded people. Go and see your MLA. Make a bit of noise. Create a ruckus. It’s fun, and besides, those who never ask never get.

popgoescanberra said :

Buy some Febreze, please, cat owners.

A solution of BioZet works better on cat urine – breaks it down properly rather than just covering the smell.

Felix the Cat said :

My previous neighbours had a cat that spent most of it’s waking moments in my yard trying to (successfully on a number of occasions) get the fish out of my fish pond.

I assume you are also trapping and disposing of the local bird life that may also be supping on your goldfish too?

FELIX – the first part of that post was directed at you – forgot to quote.

Disposed of it? Please explain???

I managed to trap the cat one day and disposed of it. Someone had to do something, the owners weren’t about to.

Eventually the neighbours moved out and the new petless neighbours moved in. But now it seems another cat (not sure who owns it) has taken a liking to my back yard so I am back to square one. Time to fire up the cat trap again.

Disposed of it? Please explain???

And – you have a pond with fish and you wonder why cats are visiting your yard – ????

I am a cat lover, don’t have one because I’m allergic, but I think they’re great.

Anyway, somewhere in my stairwell someone has a cat and I think it’s the person on the ground floor, because they have a little outdoor area. Every couple of days or so it just stinks of cat poo. Stinks! And a few weeks ago, the stairwell itself stank of cat pee for a few days. Stank! It must have absolutely stunk inside the actual apartment. I don’t appreciate it. Buy some Febreze, please, cat owners.

I empathise with you and your situation bec. When I moved to Canberra almost a year ago I did so at very short notice (I had one weekend to find a place to live – not easy in Canberra!) which meant nabbing an apartment that didnt allow pets. This sucked because I have two dogs and I had to leave them behind with a relative for the six month term of my lease. At the end of the lease I had to bite the bullet and buy a house so I could get my dogs back. Permanantly giving away a pet is not an option for me because my pets are my kids and you dont just give kids away when they become inconvenient (im not trying to be preachy, honestly, its just my personal belief).

See what your friends and family can do to help, Bec. Try to stick out your lease term and then find some sort of alternative housing. Try contacting the agents that manage properties in the pet-friendly complexes or maybe even hold out to see if anyone you work with etc is looking for housemates who dont mind having a gorgeous kitty around the house. Good Luck!

You can’t be sure of anything in an ACT Court but they can’t and won’t ignore a breach of a lease, which is a breach of contract, unless certain conditions are met.

It is not the right to ownership that would be the issue. You could own as many cats as you liked. Just none of them could reside at the house

I have no problem with cats (or other animals as pets) IF the owners take control of them. My previous neighbours had a cat that spent most of it’s waking moments in my yard trying to (successfully on a number of occasions) get the fish out of my fish pond. The fish were just the “goldfish” type in a small outside pond, they were only worth a few dollars each but the point is they were my fish in my my pond in my yard. I spoke with the neighbours on a number of occasions about this and they just laughed it off. In the end I stopped buying replacement fish and didn’t bother to maintain the pond anymore. I managed to trap the cat one day and disposed of it. Someone had to do something, the owners weren’t about to.

Eventually the neighbours moved out and the new petless neighbours moved in. But now it seems another cat (not sure who owns it) has taken a liking to my back yard so I am back to square one. Time to fire up the cat trap again.

vg said :

I-filed said :

Perhaps someone with legal knowledge could advise whether the social/health benefits of pet ownership could be argued in court as owner’s rights that can outweigh the body corporate or other considerations … ?

Not a chance. You could argue it but that doesn’t over-rule a contractual obligation. Would be laughed out of Court

Are you 100% sure about that, vg – after all, it is the ACT Court system we are talking about here!

I-filed said :

Perhaps someone with legal knowledge could advise whether the social/health benefits of pet ownership could be argued in court as owner’s rights that can outweigh the body corporate or other considerations … ?

Not a chance. You could argue it but that doesn’t over-rule a contractual obligation. Would be laughed out of Court

Perhaps someone with legal knowledge could advise whether the social/health benefits of pet ownership could be argued in court as owner’s rights that can outweigh the body corporate or other considerations … ?

We are landlords at a townhouse complex with a very relaxed (but now spineless) Body Corporate. I lived in the unit in my early 20’s with 2 cats and a number of other people in the block had pets. Moved out when we bought a house; Leased townhouse to friends/family with pets.

All good until some stupid loser (with a hard-on for ‘the rules’and too much time on his hands) bought one of the units, moved in and spoiled everyones chilled and charming existence.

Now just to clarify what the rules are…pets are allowed in the complex with body corporate permission. Because ‘pets were allowed’, most of us lazily did not bother with formal BC permission because they were already animals in the complex. When we had requested permission, it was verbal and a non issue. When the nutjob moved in, he requested written proof of permission (which we/BC didnt have) and after that he insisted that the Body Corporate block any future requests for pet approval and remove all the cats as they were residing without a permit. He wrote to the body corporate with a list of cats hanging around the complex, noting which units he believed they belong to. He threatened to have them trapped and removed if they weren’t evicted from the complex immediately.

There was a kerfuffle but in the end, most of the cats had to leave.

My points are as follows…
1)One of the cats belonged to an elderly widow who has lived there for years. While our peeps were able to find alternative arrangements for animals/move on, this lady could do neither and was very stressed about the whole thing. And she was there long before he was.
2) The nutbag hardly ever leaves his house. How does it REALLY effect him/other people if there are cats in the block?
3) Bec is right. This sort of argument is just nasty and there is no comeback for it.
Even if you have got a lease that permits pets, once an owner makes a complaint to the body corporate about said pet, it’s almost certain that pet will end up going.

What a pathetic and woeful existence our freak must live! If he had come to our door and said “Yo, Im allergic to cats” or “Dude, I don’t like cats” or “Man, If you leave your cat out, I’m going to eat it”, I would have said “No worries, soft c*ck! We’ll keep them inside or sort something out”.

I feel sorry this wanker who rolls up at night in bed, affectionatly snuggling his rule book when he could otherwise be patting a nice little pussy.

VG, you are right. As an owner of one of these units, I have the power to make the rules. Thank you for reminding me of that. Im a pretty busy person but I will fight the good fight.
Perhaps I will float a motion at the next BC meeting that our units be proudly ‘pet friendly’. Theres obviously a market for these types of properties.

Bec, do what I-filed said.

And I agree that there are probably a lot of votes to be had out there on this kind of thing.
Responsible pet ownership should be encouraged and supported by the wider community.

My ex-landlord was happy for me to have pets as he always said children did far more damage to his properties than any pet ever did.

Keep the cat – just brazen out. How can they prove you have one? If a cat is photographed in your window, perhaps it just roamed in!

I hope you can find somewhere for the cat to stay. Or else just keep it in, and say you have moved it.

I lived with two cats in a ground floor flat for years and had no problems – I must have been lucky with the neighbours.

There are unit complexes that allow pets – Belray in Mawson does.

I like cats too… lets swap recipes…

But seriously… if you knew there was a no pets clause in your lease (or with the body corporate) then you really have no come back. Boarding your cat with a friend until you can sort out alternative arrangements is probably the best advice. I was in a similar situation myself many years ago, except I arranged for my cat to be boarded before I moved.

Oddly enough this is something that local government could legislate to resolve…

Wonder if any candidates or partys will pick it up?

It’s a vote clincher for me.

Hell, even when you buy, if you get one of the lazy body corporates who just blanket ban pets, you’re screwed. However, unless a magical non-body corporate townhouse is for sale for a reasonable price when we start looking, we will only be able to afford a place that won’t even let us have pets in a property we own. Bastards.

I will add that the reason for my question is that if the lease specifies ‘no pets’ then I can’t say I have any real sympathy for your situation, particularly if you knowingly entered into the lease agreement being well aware of the conditions. Whether or not the animal causes any damage or inconvenience is irrelevant. The lease says ‘no pets’ then its no pets. You could be punted from the residence for breaching the lease if the owner/agent was so minded and with the current shortage of rental properties you would be in a world of hurt.

If I owned the property and my agent informed me that the tenant had been keeping a pet in clear contravention of the agreement I would want something done. Damage or not. At the end of the day its the owner’s rules, and a condition of the lease.

How the ‘law’ is allowed to stand is quite easy. You sign a lease that says no pets. If you don’t like the conditions of the lease then you don’t sign. No one puts a gun to your head to sign. You are free to look for a property that suits your needs, as difficult as I appreciate that may be.

What can the OP do about it…….nothing. Move the animal or move yourself. Might sound harsh but that’s reality.

I can’t say I’m entirely unsympathetic to your position, as I have a big attachment to the 2 dogs we have, but we do own the place. Next door has 2 dogs and a cat, in fact everyone around us has pets but they either own the joint (which means its their rules) or else has a lease that allows pets.

You can’t expect anyone to have any real sympathy for you, though, when you knowingly breach your lease from day 1. Owners are virtually free to apply any conditions they like (within legal and discriminatory reason) on the leases for their property. They can state no pets, no dogs/cats, no band practice, only 2 cars allowed, no groups etc etc. It is their rights as owners. Yes, you have rights as a tenant and leasee but the owners will nearly always over-ride yours.

As much as I wanted a pet when I rented I knew I couldn’t have one. This is your reality

I’m very sorry to read this, Bec. As someone else asked, do you have any friends or family who can mind the cat for you while you sort it out or find another place to live (not easy, with the current crazy housing situation we’ve created for ourselves)?

I agree there needs to be some sanity added to the laws about renting accommodation. A blanket ban on pet animals is just lazy and I wonder how it is allowed to stand under law? Condemning something with no prior evidence of wrongdoing. This situation is causing needless hardship for too many people and it’s soemthing the government should be addressing.

It’s what a whole lot of otherwise law abiding people do due to, in most part, the laziness of property managers who can’t be bothered making appropriate arrangements to cover any extra costs incurred by pets.

I’m amazed “no children” hasn’t made it onto a lease yet.

Well, I have a dog. My dog is an inside dog. She would never cause any damage as she is well trained and behaves herself. My dog can’t live with me because my lease states ‘No Pets’. There is no way that people can get away with having a dog in their apartments, especially with body corporates. I miss my dog alot.

Why do people think a cat is any different? What makes cats so much better than dogs?

Your option: Move and don’t tell the new lessors that you have a cat. If they come a’knockin (which they can’t do without written notice) shift the cat elsewhere on that day. That’s what my friend does.

Can you just clarify for me (I didn’t read it in the above) that your lease prohibits pets?

I noticed at CAT at the window of one on my neighbours flat this week. This article reminds me I must dob him in as I hate cats!

My heart goes out to you Bec.
What a sad, sad world we live in where a neighbour can’t take the effort/care to approach you personally about this topic before running off and whinging to the BC.
They obviously have no balls and no concern for anyone other than themselves.
Perhaps if you can just keep the cat inside? I know its seems cruel but they do get used to it.
And dont actively correspond; the rental dudes might forget about it.

I don’t know what the big deal is about cats in this town. Everybody seems to hate them, neighbours try to poison them etc. But if you’ve got a dog that looks like it might rip someone’s head off at any given moment then that’s A-Okay…

got any friends that might be able to look after your cat while you find a new place?
you cant get rid of your pet youd miss them alot