Skip to content Skip to main navigation

Help get ‘hoons’ off the road

skaboy12 17 September 2008 77

[First filed: September 16, 2008 @ 09:16]

Hey All,

We are starting a lobby group called Ten Thousand Fists. It has been born out of all the complaining about ‘hoon’ activity recently. We will be pushing the government and AFP/ACT Policing to assist us in finding somewhere for the ‘hoons’ to go, therefore getting them off the streets and still allowing them to do what they want to do. We are trying to fight for both sides of the argument.

They want to be ‘hoons’ and you want them off the road.

Trying to stamp them out in force obviously isn’t working too well, judging by the fact that there are more of them at every meet they have, despite the police crackdown.

We are not asking for a dragway to be built. That is a war that won’t be won in the short term. What we are asking for is initially access to the AFP driver training centre on Sutton Rd. This facility is built to handle this sort of activity and it is easily accessible. It is also safe for those participating and spectating.

We will then be pushing for a specific burnout pad. These facilities are low cost to maintain, easy to build and will only be used once or twice a fortnight which will help on noise. We have already raised $15,000 (in a week) to go towards building the facility and will be conducting fundraising events in the near future.

As we are trying to make this fair for all of Canberra we would love it if you could support us. We have created a Facebook Group (search for Ten Thousand Fists), and would like to invite everyone to join it. We will be holding public meetings and inviting the AFP Commissioner and several politicians. We will also be allowing all sides of the story to be heard.

We can be contacted at 10thousandfist (at) gmail.com or at http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=24687954445&ref=mf

Should we give hoons easier access to the Sutton Road skidpans?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...

What's Your Opinion?


Please login to post your comments, or connect with
77 Responses to Help get ‘hoons’ off the road
Filter
Order
jakez jakez 12:09 pm 18 Sep 08

Legal masturbation for all!

This is not a perfect system, nothing is. However it is the most just and fair system for all as it is truly win/win.

..I think loosebrown has killed any chance of continuing sensible debate.

djk djk 12:04 pm 18 Sep 08

After seeing the logo, all I have to add is “Shake harder boy!”.

Danman Danman 10:04 am 18 Sep 08

Loose Brown, you need to have a chat with me it seems 😛

Loose Brown Loose Brown 9:51 am 18 Sep 08

No no – I am trying to fight for both sides of the argument.

mdme workalot mdme workalot 9:50 am 18 Sep 08

Is there something you want to tell us Loose Brown? From your post, I’m going to take a guess and say you’re asking for permission to be a w*nker. No need, sweetheart – you’re there already.

Loose Brown Loose Brown 9:43 am 18 Sep 08

We are starting a lobby group called Ten Thousand Fists. It has been born out of all the complaining about people masturbating in public recently. We will be pushing the government and AFP/ACT Policing to assist us in finding somewhere for the ‘public masturbators’ to go, therefore getting them off the streets and still allowing them to do what they want to do. We are trying to fight for both sides of the argument.

They want to be ‘public masturbators’ and you want them off the streets.

Trying to stamp them out in force obviously isn’t working too well, judging by the fact that there are more of them at every meet they have, despite the police crackdown.

We are not asking for a huge public masturbation arena to be built. That is a war that won’t be won in the short term. What we are asking for is initially access to a small, semi secluded place to indulge in public masturbation, legally.

mdme workalot mdme workalot 9:31 am 18 Sep 08

Sorry Ant, my comment about whinging NIMBYs was not actually directed at you, and after re-reading my post I can see how it came across. The reason I chose that as an example is because of recent occurrences in my area where people have moved into the area and have now chosen to begin complaining about noise from activities that have been carried out in the area for the last 20 years. I find that highly objectionable because they were aware of the noise before they bought the property, so I don’t think they have any reason to complain. Buyer beware and all that.

tylersmayhem tylersmayhem 9:19 am 18 Sep 08

Shinyfd – Much of this money(approx $13.5k0 came from several large donations from several private members of the public, including myself, who want to see this succeed. The remainder of the money was raised at meets of several car clubs where people were willing to donate their spare change.

If only this money could go to a decent cause like cancer support groups or cancer research (I’m also sure the burning rubber and pollution cause by such anti-social activities contributed to this).

Any chance a certain percentage could go to non-selfish couses rather under a cloak of “it’s a win-win situation”, just to get your own way?! It’s a very thin disguise, and a bloody hard one to sell…to me anyway!

ant ant 9:15 am 18 Sep 08

That argument will never work, mdme workalot. Being irritated because some people don’t want you to blast them in their homes with noisy engines is a much weaker arguing position that that of the “whining nimbys” who are being blasted by motorsports noise in their homes and gardens.

As for “addressing my points”, the main point is, I was a resident who was blasted with motorsports engine noise in my own home. calling me a “whining nimby” is not “addressing” that point. It’s just lame abuse.

mdme workalot mdme workalot 8:41 am 18 Sep 08

Thanks Jakez and Vicepope, it’s so nice to see a polite discussion of the issue as opposed to namecalling and nastiness. I’m going to try and do some research on whether the availability of such facilities tends to increase illegal and dangerous behaviour on public roads, because I think until that is either proved or disproved we are not going to get anywhere. I will post with what I can find.

Ant – you should realise that ‘we’ (for want of a better term) are not going to go away either, and I think Jakez addressed your points earlier. I find whinging NIMBYs make my life unpleasant, but that is one of the consequences of living in such a varied and multicultural community. To that end, I am going to keep supporting efforts to give motor vehicle enthusiasts a safe and private facility to engage in motorsport activities in such a way that will minimise the effect on others.

skaboy12 skaboy12 6:57 am 18 Sep 08

Shinyfd – Much of this money(approx $13.5k0 came from several large donations from several private members of the public, including myself, who want to see this succeed. The remainder of the money was raised at meets of several car clubs where people were willing to donate their spare change.

A full proposal is being worked on at the moment, and will be released to the public shortly before our first public event. At the moment it is taking a while to get things running as we are all working on this is our spare time, while trying not to take too much time away from our families and hobbies.

ant ant 11:45 pm 17 Sep 08

As someone who was personally affected by teh old dragway, I applaud Vicepope’s words. These motorsports do affect other people. they are noisy. they attract people who have antisocial habits. They are unpleasant to be around. We’ll fight you because your activites make our lives unpleasant. You need to realise that we won’t go away, but we do wish you, and your stinky, noisy sports would. And we exert efforts to that end.

shinyfd shinyfd 11:12 pm 17 Sep 08

To skaboy12 at top
Who are “we” as in “we have raised $15,000 (in a week)”
Not meaning to demean your efforts, but that is a lot of cash – particularly in an election cycle.
That’s a couple of grand a day, plus change – just to attempt to send ding-bats to Sutton Rd.
What was your premise when asking people to donate this money?
Did you plod around neighborhoods that are “hoon affected” and ask for cash so they can live in peace? Did you go to car clubs? Did you advocate with the AFP for a grant for access to the Sutton centre,…….did you seek and obtain donations from businesses in Canberra? And your spiel to them was….?
Did you canvas Government to get basic reassurance that such a scheme could meet with approval before taking the money??
I’m not trying to be difficult at all – in fact, truth will win every time, but how did you manage to persuade Canberrans to part with $15,000 in a week for an “idea” that could maybe work or most likely not.

I’m sure that a factual account of the proposal,as presented,and the fundraising method would reassure all who wish for a solution to stupid nongs in the ‘burbs.

A factual, no nonsense answer to the above would give your cause much credibility.

jakez jakez 6:16 pm 17 Sep 08

VicePope said :

No-one, for example, has been killed or harmed by the smell of curry to my knowledge quote]

Mate you’d be surprised.

G-Fresh G-Fresh 5:46 pm 17 Sep 08

mdme workalot said :

Sorry for the double post – now I’m a 3-post nutbag 😛

Yeah get out

VicePope VicePope 5:42 pm 17 Sep 08

Jakez – thanks for a detailed response. We may have to agree to disagree, and I shall keep looking for a politician who represents my views. You have addressed, but not answered, my points. No-one, for example, has been killed or harmed by the smell of curry to my knowledge – and I wouldn’t want to think of the kind of combination that is released when motor vehicle parts are placed under stress. Why create an entire class of potential used cars that have suffered excessiv strain?

MdmeWorkalot – I agree that some proper research on this would be useful in the interest of informed debate. Impressionistically, there is the containment argument in your favour – that, with somewhere where it is legal to be silly, people won’t risk doing silly things in other places. On the other hand, this sort of program will teach a “skill” that some folk will try to use elsewhere and it will create, at some level, a confusion about whether lawfulness in one place equals propriety more generally. In other words, some people will get all fired up and keep going on the roads. As well, if the place is to avoid the problems of liability (and it’s ok for Jakez to say that he supports personal responsibility), it wll need a robust quality checking process for machine and driver and probably a pretty large insurance charge – in many years, I have not seen a sweeping indemnity clause that would work.

Plus, all the other problems – environmental, social, commercial etc – remain. It’s a bad idea, unless regulated to the point that no-one would do it.

jakez jakez 5:00 pm 17 Sep 08

You certainly are Mdme!

VicePope said :

The “consenting adults” argument works only in private relationships that have no effect on others.

VicePope, as I said if you can make a case then I will listen to it. I agree with the harm principle (narrowly defining harm to direct harm as one can see in On Liberty), and you will not find a stronger defender of property rights (including your own body) than myself. That said I think we need to take a closer look at your claims to see if they count, or even if they are true.I think some of them may be valid in the hypothetical, but not necessarily in this case.

1,

In this case, the rest of us will hear the noise, smell the fumes etc

Claims of smell and general annoyance cannot be considered to be a valid example of ‘harm’ as it renders Mill’s harm principle so broad as to be meaningless. I could say that I find the sound of you spewing forth your authoritarian viewpoints offensive. If we define harm to include indirect harm and subjective feelings, then one can claim that anything is harming them.

I find people that eat curry to smell bad, I find people that don’t shower to smell bad, in fact I find a lot of people smell bad (perhaps I’m a clean freak). I find these people to smell much worse than the smell of rubber. None of that however is a valid reason to advocate for some sort of coercive ban on curry, or non showering.

To address those points, we have zoning, and I don’t think the place would be near residential areas. Sutton Road is not in the middle of Kambah, it is out past RMC. I don’t think that in this case, your fears are valid.

be placed at risk by compromised vehicles (driven by excited people) on the road

I’ll echo mdme here and ask for some sort of pyschological (or other) evidence. Otherwise, this is just subjective opinion. Even if it were the case, the existence of a safe place to do motorsports would LESSEN the amount of this driving on regular roads, not increase it. We currently face the problem of having hoon driving on regular roads. THAT IS OUR REALITY NOW! This is a way to lessen that problem.

risk buying used cars that have been damaged through this kind of foolishness etc.

I think this point is just silly. Firstly, I’m not sure you can even make the case of some sort of hidden damage. Secondly, caveat emptor. We face risk throughout our lives and to be very frank, anyone who does not get an independent mechanic to look at a car before they buy it, is a bloody idiot and deserves what they get.

And we will probably wind up picking up the tab when someone errs in a burnout and runs through some people, or into a wall.

I am a big advocate of personal responsibility. People should be free to do as they please, but they must accept the consequences. To that end, we see that Government REMOVES personal responsibility. We have a health care system that incentivises stupid behaviour. I believe in a safetynet so that’s a burden that I think we should bare, however if we provide a legal avenue we will see that people will have to take personal responsibility.

Firstly, with regard to other people being injured on residential roads, WE HAVE THIS PROBLEM NOW! That is why we need a facility to get this behaviour off the residential roads and into a controlled environment. This will lessen that problem. For those that act the fool on residential roads, I absolutely believe THEY must pay the price, and our legal system needs to place a greater emphasis on restitution for harm to others. There are a number of consensual ways of achieving this (insurance) as well as integrating it into our criminal law.

Those who go to the racetrack/burnout facility must pay insurance and sign a waiver. They will have to pay the price for their activities.

Allowing consenting adults the freedom to do as they wish, setting up a system that ensures personal responsibility, and protecting property rights (including ones own body) allows us to live in a tolerant, pluralistic, and free society, while ensuring that people do not have to bear the brunt of those things that they have not had a contributing hand in.

This is not a perfect system, nothing is. However it is the most just and fair system for all as it is truly win/win.

mdme workalot mdme workalot 2:54 pm 17 Sep 08

Sorry for the double post – now I’m a 3-post nutbag 😛

mdme workalot mdme workalot 2:48 pm 17 Sep 08

Yes VicePope, but your points there merely echo those of people who want a place to engage in this kind of activity. People would be happy to do this so it doesn’t impede on anyone else’s right to enjoy themselves and their surroundings, but lobby groups prevent these facilities from existing. It ends up being a lose/lose situation.

As for the argument that these facilities promote risky behaviour on the roads, I really would like to see some research or definitive evidence that this is the case. Otherwise, I’m inclined to reject it as a subjective opinion.

mdme workalot mdme workalot 2:48 pm 17 Sep 08

Yes VicePope, but your points there merely echo those of people who want a place to engage in this kind of activity. People would be happy to do this so it doesn’t impede on anyone else’s right to enjoy themselves and their surroundings, but lobby groups prevent these facilities from existing. It ends up being a lose/lose situation.

As for the argument that these facilities promote risky behaviour on the roads, I really would like to see some research or definitive evidence that this is the case. Otherwise, I’m inclined to reject it as a subjective opinion.

VicePope VicePope 2:31 pm 17 Sep 08

The “consenting adults” argument works only in private relationships that have no effect on others. In this case, the rest of us will hear the noise, smell the fumes etc, be placed at risk by compromised vehicles (driven by excited people) on the road, risk buying used cars that have been damaged through this kind of foolishness etc. And we will probably wind up picking up the tab when someone errs in a burnout and runs through some people, or into a wall. So, it’s not a matter purely for the consent of the participants.

CBR Tweets

Sign up to our newsletter

Top
Copyright © 2020 Region Group Pty Ltd. All rights reserved.
the-riotact.com | riotact.com.cn | aboutregional.com.au | b2bmagazine.com.au | thisiscanberra.com

Search across the site