Learner Drivers on the Highways?

Hmmm – I got my L’s (NSW) 10 years ago and I was restricted to 80kph, so the NSW one isn’t that new. I just remembered reading something about the rule in the papers towards the end of last year, and thinking it was a strange one – it was the first I’d heard of it. I wonder if it will also eventually apply to the absolute zero BAC limit?

aa – advertising is generally directed at fully licenced drivers with a BAC limit of 0.05. And basic physics dictates that a crash with a combined speed of 200kph (both drivers doing 100kph) will have a greater impact than a crash of 160kph. The question is whether the difference is significant when looking at injuries sustained, and I don’t know the answer to that one.

No, I have been on my L’s since I was 17. I decided to get my P’s as my NY resolution and started my lessons on January 2nd. I think driving at the posted speed limits is valuable.

So the rule was introduced before jessieduck got her L’s.

Madame Workalot said :

the rule that restricts ACT drivers on NSW roads is only new – passed late last year I believe.

Newish – I’ve been on my Ps for almost two years, and that rule was brought in when I was many months away from completing my log book. It was brought in very quickly after the NSW Ls 80 limit rule.

Where did you get the .025% BAC from? According to ALL advertising, a male can have 2 drinks in the first hour, 1 drink every hour after that. So if you’re numbers are correct and a male has 2 drinks, they would have broken the law cause they’re on .05%!

As for driving only 80, they would get more experience driving 80 around town than they would driving 80 on a highway. There’s merging traffic, there’s people overtaking them, there’s red lights, there’ stop signs. While a learner on a 2 way single lane raod that is inexperiences traveling all over the road at varying speeds does have semis coming in their opposite direction! And if you’re going 80 and the opposite car is going 80, that’s still 160km/hr accident (just as deadly as if they were going 100).

aa – try and answer my question before having a go at me. And I did not say you were childish, I said that I thought your post (and more importantly, the point of your post) came across as childish and self-centred. I don’t know you from a bar of soap, so I wouldn’t presume to pass judgment on your character.

I do find it interesting, however, that every time someone posts something that supports what you are arguing against, you go back to saying ‘Once again, either let them go the limit, or don’t let them on the highway!’ Yes, we know that’s your point of view. Now support your argument and counteract other people’s arguments or this is a pointless debate.

Jessieduck – the rule that restricts ACT drivers on NSW roads is only new – passed late last year I believe.

aa said :

.02% is one drink.

.02% is slightly less than one standard drink in one ‘standard’ human male in one hour.
(Which should put the ‘standard’ male at 0.025% BAC, the ‘standard female’ at 0.05%BAC, with an average rate of alcohol breakdown at 0.025% BAC/hr for a ‘standard’ human if I remember my RSA correctly, but it was years ago)

Your horse is also high, sir.

I don’t agree with NSW Learners never being given the chance to drive at high speeds under instruction. They’re then given their provisional licence based on passing a driving test at low speeds, at which point they’re allowed to drive faster without an instructor being required in the car to guide them. After 1 year they’re allowed to travel at 100k’s, the legal limit on the majority of country roads. At this point they’re likely to come across a situation where they’d like to overtake a slower vehicle, and most likely have had minimal experience with overtaking on the wrong side of the road, and almost certainly no experience with overtaking manuvers whilst required to be under instruction when on their L’s, thanks to the 80k speed restriction.

In regards to the dangerous overtaking manuvers you’re witnessing (and at the risk of sounding like an absolute w@nker again), these drivers are a far bigger problem on the road than slower vehicles. Nobody, under any circumstances has the right to become frustrated enough on the road to intentionally pull a dangerous manuver of any sort. If your 300km trip takes 4 hours and 15 minutes instead of 3 hours because you got stuck behind a truck doing 70km/h the whole way, so be it. If your 1000km trip takes two days of driving instead of a day for the same reason, so bloody what? If your 15 minute trip takes 16 minutes, who gives a rats? Better to get there an hour and 15 minutes later than planned than to not get there at all. Better to get there a day later than planned than to kill an innocent family coming the other way. Better to get there a minute late than to wind up in prison for a few years with your back against a wall.

Yes a considerate slower driver will move over every now and then to let faster vehicles pass, but not everyone is considerate, and sometimes this doesn’t happen. Is that the fault of the passengers in your car, or the occupants of any car coming the other way? Anyone who is willing to risk their life and the lives of others on the road to save any amount of time, 1 minute, 10 hours, a day, it’s irrelevant, should immediately remove themselves from behind a wheel of any sort until they get their priorities right.

Jessieduck- Do you think it’s a good thing that in the ACT they allow you to go the road limit? I think its a good thing that they do, that way you gain experience with a teacher at those speeds. If they allowed it in NSW, maybe that might help lower the amount of accidents they’re having with P platers at speed over 80km/hr!

OK- I will. I stand corrected…. I am learning after all.

Read this

http://www.roadready.act.gov.au/c/roadready?a=da&did=1002908&faq=74&category=0

“Learner drivers can drive to the posted speed limit in the ACT. However, when driving in NSW, learner drivers must not exceed 80 kilometres per hour in 80 kph zones and above. ACT Learner drivers driving in other States or Territories will need to check with that jurisdiction for rules pertaining to learner drivers.”

I think you should get off your high horse!!!

An ACT learner in the NT could go 130km/hr if they somehow foundthemselves having a driving lesson on one of those roads.

aa said :

ACT learners in NSW can’t exceed 80km/hr (read the post further up)

WRONG- and I have said this a FEW times in this post. They can go at the prescribed speed on that road. They can go 110km if it’s a 110km road.

You’re just making stuff up now and it a pain to keep correcting you. Just get off that high horse and bugger off.

ACT learners in NSW can’t exceed 80km/hr (read the post further up)

aa said :

peterh- Shouldn’t the learner also be exposed to 100km/hr while they are with a teacher and not when they are out there on their own? Everyone here agrees that the current system DOESN’T work, because P Platers are loosing control of their cars because they’re not exposed to going 100km/hr before they are put on the road on their own. People here keep reading only one of the options and not everything I’m saying. Once again, either let them go the limit, or don’t let them on the highway!

and again, as per your earlier post, “not exceed posted speed limits.” L platers from the ACT can do 110 in a 110 zone. NSW L platers can’t. we live in the ACT. not NSW. learners abide by the rules of the ACT.

.02% is one drink.

peterh- Shouldn’t the learner also be exposed to 100km/hr while they are with a teacher and not when they are out there on their own? Everyone here agrees that the current system DOESN’T work, because P Platers are loosing control of their cars because they’re not exposed to going 100km/hr before they are put on the road on their own. People here keep reading only one of the options and not everything I’m saying. Once again, either let them go the limit, or don’t let them on the highway!

aa said :

The fact that they’re allowd to have been drinking is a worry!!!!

Don’t be a knob- 0.02% is to cover things like mouth wash. Learner’s and P-plate drivers are hardly encouraged to drink and drive.

aa said :

By the sounds of people here, most of you are just public servants or people who’ve been in the same job for about 10 years, they just drift by life. a 20 or 30 minute delay could mean the difference between getting to a job interview on time or to hospital on time or to catch a plane on time.

aa, i spend up to 4hrs a day on the road. I am an outbound sales rep. I have a phone. If i am late or can see i will be late, i call the person i am meeting with and advise them. I don’t drift by life. I accept the unchangeable. I haven’t been working in this job for 10 years, I am in the IT industry – 10 years is a record for a period at a company for me. I have, however, been in the IT industry for over 15yrs.

I have seen a lot of changes, but the biggest changes i have seen have been on our roads. I carry a first aid kit in my car. I assist fellow motorists from time to time. I have seen the results of a p plater hitting a barrier at 100kph, after never driving on a highway. not pretty.

I have also seen the damage an accident can do at 80kph. again, not pretty.

parents or instructors need to understand that if a child learning to drive is never exposed to the highway, it will produce a dangerous situation when they finally get on the highway.

Licensed drivers need to be prepared for all situations on the road. an L plater is yet another situation to be aware of and to ensure that you have a safe opportunity to overtake, or if you don’t, back off and rely on the experience of the parent / instructor to ensure that the learner does the right thing. If they don’t let you pass, by moving off the road onto the shoulder, it isn’t the learner’s fault, it is their teacher’s.

Here’s the ACT rules for Learners:

Whilst driving on your Learner Licence in the ACT you must:

display “L” plates at the front and rear of the vehicle;
ensure that a person holding a full Australian Driver Licence occupies the seat next to the Learner;
not have a blood alcohol content exceeding .02%;
not tow a trailer exceeding 750kg GVM; and
not exceed posted speed limits.

The fact that they’re allowd to have been drinking is a worry!!!!

FFS, if you come up behind someone going slower than you, overtake them. That’s the whole idea. Even on the coast road there are many overtaking opportunities unless traffic is really heavy, in which case overtaking won’t help you much anyway.

oh, and Madame Workalot, i stopped reading your posts after you put the “childish” thing in there. Every person I’ve come across that chucks that line, does it when people don’t agree with what they’re saying. What’s so childish about saying they should either be allowed to go the limit, do a safety driving course, or not obstruct traffic!

As I’ve been saying, maybe they should let them travel at 100km/hr. That way they can gain experience driving at that speed before they get given a license and hit that speed without experience. Maybe they should force them to do a driving course by someone OTHER than their parents. You’ve all been saying that the current system doesn’t work, and them driving 80 on the highway is part of the current system!

By the sounds of people here, most of you are just public servants or people who’ve been in the same job for about 10 years, they just drift by life. a 20 or 30 minute delay could mean the difference between getting to a job interview on time or to hospital on time or to catch a plane on time.

On the topic of old people on the road, if they can’t drive the limit, they’re obvously not fit enough to be driving on the road. There is a minimum speed people are allowed to drive on the road otherwise they can be fined for obstructing traffic.

shanefos said :

H1NG0 said :

What a stupid article. Of course L platers should be allowed to drive on Highways. They should drive on as many different roads and conditions as possible. Thats whay they are called Learners, because they are learning how to drive. Idiot.

Hear hear!

And I still don’t understand what the difference between coming across a learner driver doing 80kmph in a 110kmph zone is compared to coming across a non-learner driver or a truck or a bus or any other type of vehicle doing 80kmph in a 110kmph zone…
Totally agree. Stupid, stupid article.

exempting cranky – don’t really know how old you are, what would you do aa, if you were driving to the coast, and found that you were doing 60…. behind a very old licensed driver, who is traveling from the property they live on to braidwood to buy something at the shops? Would you flash your lights, beep your horn, carry on like a d1ckhead?

do you know what happens if you flash your lights at some of the older drivers on the roads?

they jam on the anchors.

An accident at 60 is still an accident. the cars coming up behind you at 100kph will certainly have to take emergency evasive action to avoid you.

once you have your license, you are obligated to drive at or just below the speed limit. BUT, it is up to your level of confidence. if you drive at 90 in a 100 zone, and are comfortable with that speed, great.

There are many factors that will slow me down on the roads. These are:
1. stock crossing signs (portables on the side of the road)
2. roads i am unfamiliar with, either on the flats or on hills
3. roads that appear to be full of potholes – they don’t get any better
4. dirt roads
5. weather conditions.

oh, and your statement – “As for the time difference, name one person here that wouldn’t be annoyed if the trip to the coast or the snow took 20 or 30 minutes longer than it should because parents were being irresponsible and risking their childrens lives.”

nothing like sitting in a queue at nelligen wondering if you will ever see the coast in daylight that day to make me pause and reflect about the fact that there are a couple of learners in front of me learning about very slow traffic…

20 or 30 mins out of my life? I lose that waiting to be served at some coffee shops. or having the coffee.

meh.

aa, you wait until you children venture onto the dreaded highway. they have been warned that it is a dangerous place, and trucks will be scary, and they HAVE to do the limit at all times, for fear of causing road rage, or other delays to other drivers. in my mind, that kind of thinking is an accident waiting to happen.

H1NG0 said :

What a stupid article. Of course L platers should be allowed to drive on Highways. They should drive on as many different roads and conditions as possible. Thats whay they are called Learners, because they are learning how to drive. Idiot.

Hear hear!

And I still don’t understand what the difference between coming across a learner driver doing 80kmph in a 110kmph zone is compared to coming across a non-learner driver or a truck or a bus or any other type of vehicle doing 80kmph in a 110kmph zone…
Totally agree. Stupid, stupid article.

What a stupid article. Of course L platers should be allowed to drive on Highways. They should drive on as many different roads and conditions as possible. Thats whay they are called Learners, because they are learning how to drive. Idiot.

bd84, while I agree with you re driver training, I’m just not sure I agree with you re the difference in speed. I think an accident at 80kph is, in most instances, going to be less serious than an accident at 100kph. While you may counter this with saying ACT p-platers aren’t subject to speed restrictions, I think ACT p-platers spend a lot less time on roads where the limit is above 80kph, which may explain it. Happy to be corrected though!

aa – you still didn’t answer the questions I posed for you earlier. Is that because you don’t have an answer, or is it because you have to try and think of an acceptable reason for this petty and self-centred gripe? I sincerely hope you have a long hard think about your position before your children learn to drive, otherwise (in my view) you are dramatically increasing the chance that one of your kids will be wrapped around a tree on a highway after not having the experience to negotiate high-speed obstacles, or simply losing concentration. I really, really hope that doesn’t happen.

Sheepgroper – I didn’t think there’d be two of you! A kindred spirit – I drive the other beat-up Rex that gets around Southside 🙂

aa said :

Well, for everyone who thinks its safe for unexperienced learners to be on the highways, go for it. As for me, when I have children Im going to be a responsible parent and teach them enough around town so that when they are on highways, they are safe driver. Even if it means not letting them on the highway until they have their license. There’s PLENTY of roads around town for them to gain the experience they would gain on the highway, and they would be on much safer roads, with lanes that allowed people to overtake them safely. As stated, they didn’t cause me road rage, but I saw cars overtaking them and nearly causing accidents. Now if those people want to crash, that’s fine, but what about the car they hit? As for the time difference, name one person here that wouldn’t be annoyed if the trip to the coast or the snow took 20 or 30 minutes longer than it should because parents were being irresponsible and risking their childrens lives.

I hope by the time your children are old enough to drive they ban parents from teaching their little darlings their own bad habits.

Your logic, or lack of, is consistent with the moronic NSW government that is creating a generation of drivers who will now be more inexperienced than in the past.

As it currently stands NSW P platers are out on their own never (legally) driven a car at above 80kph after doing a 1 hour test, they’re rewarded for passing their test by being allowed to drive an extra 10kph faster (which they would have never have done), then after a year they pass a theory test which allows them to go yet another 10kph faster, never having done so before. How on earth is this preparing young drivers to handle a car at different speeds and different situations? It’s not.

It’s funny how the NSW government never admits that the restrictions that have been in place for 5+ years? now have made absolutely no difference to the road toll for young drivers. If all governments in Australia had half a brain between them, they would realise that the solution to the problem is pumping money into complete driver training, which would include driving a car at all speeds, in different conditions, at different times, on different roads and not being taught by mum and dad or their mates who are probably the worst people to learn from.

A car accident at 80kph can still kill someone as much as one at 100.. hell even one at 40 or 50kph will kill someone. Restricting speed is not the answer, learning to control it is.

SheepGroper said :

It’s daft to drop learners into situations where they’re totally out of their depth, but if they’re being taught by family they’re stuck with whatever teaching skills their parents have, and some people just can’t teach.

Damn straight!

Well, for everyone who thinks its safe for unexperienced learners to be on the highways, go for it. As for me, when I have children Im going to be a responsible parent and teach them enough around town so that when they are on highways, they are safe driver. Even if it means not letting them on the highway until they have their license. There’s PLENTY of roads around town for them to gain the experience they would gain on the highway, and they would be on much safer roads, with lanes that allowed people to overtake them safely. As stated, they didn’t cause me road rage, but I saw cars overtaking them and nearly causing accidents. Now if those people want to crash, that’s fine, but what about the car they hit? As for the time difference, name one person here that wouldn’t be annoyed if the trip to the coast or the snow took 20 or 30 minutes longer than it should because parents were being irresponsible and risking their childrens lives.

Madame Workalot said :

OT – Sheepgroper, I’ve got to ask – do you drive a white WRX? Because if you don’t, your moniker is not as unique as I thought.

Yes, a slightly dented and scratched white rexy, the ideal car for the mature aged P plater in my completely biased opinion : – )

As for the inexperienced learner being out on highways – I spent the $$ and was taught by a pro in a dual control car, and I progressed from wobbling around local streets to the faster streets around suburbs to the initially heartpoundingly stressful job of merging into lots of 100 kph traffic at speed.

It’s daft to drop learners into situations where they’re totally out of their depth, but if they’re being taught by family they’re stuck with whatever teaching skills their parents have, and some people just can’t teach.

L platers on Hwy’s are just mobile chicanes. Doing 110-120 on the Hume and you come across a L plater doing 80.

That’s way more dangerous then allowing them to do the speed limit. When all the traffic is moving in the same direction and at the same speed it’s a lot safer then the huge differences in speed they legislate now.

Being very old, I learnt and drove when the only speed limits were in towns. The black circle with the strikethrough was known as the derestriction sign, and you were permitted to drive AT ANY SPEED, as long as you could prove to an inquisitive Cop that you were not driving dangerously. The general thought was that derestricted meant 50MPH (or 80K’s)), and the onus was on you to prove your higher speed was not dangerous.

I would love to to know if that interpretation has been legally changed. It applied to all roads prior to a State limit being instituted, so it is a bit of an inconsistency that it is in addition to the State limit.

It was also general knowledge that a vehicle that caught up to you was travelling faster, and it was polite to facilitate that vehicle to overtake.

aa said :

so you’re think it’s responsible for parents to let their kids who are unexperienced to be on highways? If you’re car can’t do more than 80, there’s a good chance it’s not road worthy.

When and how exactly do learner drvers get to learn how to drive on highways then?
And yes, my car was roadworthy. It was just p!ssweak!

Good on you jessieduck! I got my licence at 24, another late bloomer. And yes, driving on a straight 100km/hr road did give me heaps of experience.

aa – Get over it. Better you get there 20 minutes later than not at all because you have been wiped off the road by an inexperienced L plater drving at 100km/hr.

aa said :

you’re talking about a minority of L platers are over 21! And is it just wanting to get out of being the designated driver or is it fear and/or laziness!!!!

All three.

you’re talking about a minority of L platers are over 21! And is it just wanting to get out of being the designated driver or is it fear and/or laziness!!!!

aa said :

so you’re think it’s responsible for parents to let their kids who are unexperienced to be on highways?

Not all L-platers are children- some of us have just wanted to get out of being the designated driver for longer then what’s considered fair.

I’m and L plater going for my P’s next month and I have to say it would be frustrating for people driving behind an L plater, but as many people have mentioned we do need to learn on every type of road. The first time I drove on a highway I was so scared, but with heaps of practice it’s fine now. What would happen if I had never been out on these fast busy roads before then got my p’s, where I don’t have someone in the car to guide me?

aa said :

well i’ve been driving for over 20 years. My parents were responsible when they decided to teach me. They didn’t let me drive on highways because they know people get angry when someone is all over the road and can’t maitain the same speed.

Yes, they might have the right to drive on it, but what do they do when someone behind them gets angry, decides to overtake and causes a crash. Like i’ve been saying, either let them go the limit, or don’t let them be on the road. And don’t use the excuse that P platers can only go 90, cause you’ve all been saying how learners have a responsible driver with them, p platers don’t. So if the responsible licensed driver thinks they can’t handle that speed, why do they think they can handle highways where 20tone semi-trailors are coming in their direction!

speed isn’t the issue. the L platers have to learn to negotiate public roads and interact safely with other drivers. If they are taught to drive on a country road, which is dirt, they will not be doing the limit. most country drivers never hit the ton on dirt. it is very easy to hit a tree.

so you’re think it’s responsible for parents to let their kids who are unexperienced to be on highways? If you’re car can’t do more than 80, there’s a good chance it’s not road worthy.

aa said :

…So if the responsible licensed driver thinks they can’t handle that speed, why do they think they can handle highways where 20tone semi-trailors are coming in their direction!

But what if the truck can only do 80kmph? Should they be banned from the highways too?
Should I have been banned from driving on the highway because my car may not have been capable of doing 100kmph all of the time, even though I am fully licenced?
If you can’t deal with someone doing 20kmph below the speed limit then you need a) more practice driving on highways and b) more patience.

well i’ve been driving for over 20 years. My parents were responsible when they decided to teach me. They didn’t let me drive on highways because they know people get angry when someone is all over the road and can’t maitain the same speed.

Yes, they might have the right to drive on it, but what do they do when someone behind them gets angry, decides to overtake and causes a crash. Like i’ve been saying, either let them go the limit, or don’t let them be on the road. And don’t use the excuse that P platers can only go 90, cause you’ve all been saying how learners have a responsible driver with them, p platers don’t. So if the responsible licensed driver thinks they can’t handle that speed, why do they think they can handle highways where 20tone semi-trailors are coming in their direction!

Vic Bitterman said :

astrojax said :

and as for the circle with the line through it, this indicates the limit as the maximum for roads (not highways/freeways) in the state, so it would be 100km/h.

Yep that’s correct.

My last trip on the Hay plains was around Y2000, and the signs were definitely 120 with a red circle. I’d never seen it before, and haven’t since, which is why it’s still so vivid in my mind! Not sure if this is still the case today however!

The 110 done near Dubbo does as Holden C speculate have plenty of clear straight visible bits of which to safely overtake if needed.

dubbo, orange, forbes all have good places to drive, and to learn the fine art of hay truck avoidance. and hay truck overloading.

astrojax said :

and as for the circle with the line through it, this indicates the limit as the maximum for roads (not highways/freeways) in the state, so it would be 100km/h.

Yep that’s correct.

My last trip on the Hay plains was around Y2000, and the signs were definitely 120 with a red circle. I’d never seen it before, and haven’t since, which is why it’s still so vivid in my mind! Not sure if this is still the case today however!

The 110 done near Dubbo does as Holden C speculate have plenty of clear straight visible bits of which to safely overtake if needed.

shanefos said :

Driving at dangerously slow speeds is not cool. But vehicles travelling at 80kmph in a 100kmph zone is not confined to learner drivers alone. Think of all the trucks travelling below 100/110kmph. My last car struggled to do more than 80kmph up some of the bigger hills on the Hume.

My car is like that (I still love it). Coming back from teh coast, I found 90 was the comfy speed for me. Some crazed lunatics in space ships just had to overtake as they were in an important hurry, but I noticed a few cars sliped in behind and were not interested in overtaking, even on overtaking lanes where my car slowed to 80 on the serious uphill bits.

There was one L-plated car trundling along… my only issue with them is they are all over the place with their speed. It must drive tailgaters nuts!

oh, also, I got my Ps in NSW, where you have to be under 90 on your reds, then 100 on the greens. I think the 100kph limit was worse, ebcause you had more people driving right up to your tail and THEN overtaking. Drove many a trip on the hume to albury – scary also because that’s what the trucks are meant to be doing, so when you’re going up a hill you overtake, but then they come right back up on you on the flats. At night with their bright headlights, was scary.

astrojax said :

what is it with all this vitriol for people who purposely and deliberately [i’m sure] set out to hamper the capacity for people to drive at the posted speed limit on every road all the time everywhere? ffs, get a life – learn to smell the roses and learn to, like, drive to the conditions on the road as you find them.

i find it appalling that people with this attitude are permitted to drive, frankly. it’s people like you what cause unrest, as the saying goes. thanks to all those above who have, in some way or other, told those who think like this to pull their heads in.

and as for the circle with the line through it, this indicates the limit as the maximum for roads (not highways/freeways) in the state, so it would be 100km/h.

aaah!
wonder why i never got pulled over??

I wonder how long aa has been driving though?

I have been driving since i was 17, on p plates from another state. I am now nearly 38. 21 years. enough time to not sweat the small stuff. if there is an L plater in front of me on the coast road, I double my distance behind them. I have driven the road many times, they haven’t.

In NSW you need 120 hours as a learner driver to try for your Ps, so you need to get the time when you can. If this means when the family is off on a treck across the country, then so be it…

That being said, when I was creeping along at 10kph on Sydney traffic on Christmas day, there were SO many learners out on the roads. Poor kids. The day with the family is stressful enough, wuithout having to drive them about.

Though, the time spent going nowhere on Pennant Hills road is all hours “driven”.

what is it with all this vitriol for people who purposely and deliberately [i’m sure] set out to hamper the capacity for people to drive at the posted speed limit on every road all the time everywhere? ffs, get a life – learn to smell the roses and learn to, like, drive to the conditions on the road as you find them.

i find it appalling that people with this attitude are permitted to drive, frankly. it’s people like you what cause unrest, as the saying goes. thanks to all those above who have, in some way or other, told those who think like this to pull their heads in.

and as for the circle with the line through it, this indicates the limit as the maximum for roads (not highways/freeways) in the state, so it would be 100km/h.

OT – Sheepgroper, I’ve got to ask – do you drive a white WRX? Because if you don’t, your moniker is not as unique as I thought.

Ian said :

I’ve long thought that psych testing people before letting them drive would do wonders for the road toll. I’m sure its possible to screen out people with aggressive, risk taking or other dickhead tendencies and tell them “hey sport, its the bus and train for you”. Plus, driving would be much easier with <50% of the number of cars on the road.

That would be sweet. I’m pretty sure I’d pass the test. Being an older L-plater has been a real benifit to me. Far less stressful and upsetting then it was when I made my last concerted effort 10 years ago. I was never going to be a hoon but I did cry a lot when my mum yelled at me .

I just wanted to get to the airport in 20 minutes instead of the hour it took by using busses, 1.5 hours if I missed a bus. Being able to drive the sheep to the vet myself was a bonus : – )

I’ve long thought that psych testing people before letting them drive would do wonders for the road toll. I’m sure its possible to screen out people with aggressive, risk taking or other dickhead tendencies and tell them “hey sport, its the bus and train for you”. Plus, driving would be much easier with <50% of the number of cars on the road.

SheepGroper said :

jessieduck – good on you, I waited almost 10 years longer than you did.

It’s been good while it lasted but the time has come to suck it up and join the grown ups.

aa – the short course for motorbike riders is for those who already have a driving license and are familiar with the experience of driving. When I looked into it there’s more involved if you’ve never driven anything and want to learn on a motorbike, that’s part of the reason I chose to learn to drive a car.

Also, the reason a learner should get experience on a very long and almost straight highway is so they learn to concentrate for such a long period and don’t overlook the few bends that might be there, stuff that’s no doubt second nature to you now. After I got my Ps I drove to Goulburn, it was that trip that taught me to park the left foot on the footbrace unless I needed it.

As for why ACT learners might be doing 80 in NSW, they’re being law abiding.

http://www.roadready.act.gov.au/c/roadready?a=da&did=1002908&faq=74&category=0

I was on my Ls over two years ago when NSW brought in the 80 kph limit for its learners, shortly after I got a letter stating ACT learners had to keep to 80 when in NSW “to avoid confusion”.

jessieduck – good on you, I waited almost 10 years longer than you did.

I suppose this shows the folly that is speed limits.

I personally don’t think they’re gaining any extra experience going on the highway than they would going on most roads around town.

Then you clearly haven’t driven on many highways, especially B and C class NSW ones.

oops, make thatVYBerlina not peterh.

Although, if you two want to start a mob, that would be cool.

I live to give!

One thing I’ve often wondered is why we are expected to drive at the speed limit? The speed limit is the maximum legal speed allowed on a designated stretch of road. It is not the minimum speed, so why are people that bothered when someone drives slower than the limit? Oh, I forgot! You might get held up from getting to the snow by, oh, about two minutes! Or, if you’re in the city, you might get held up by, oh, about the time it takes you to get to the next red light – in which case the learner driver you just tailgated and overtook will invariably pull up right behind you before the light turns green anyway.

Driving at dangerously slow speeds is not cool. But vehicles travelling at 80kmph in a 100kmph zone is not confined to learner drivers alone. Think of all the trucks travelling below 100/110kmph. My last car struggled to do more than 80kmph up some of the bigger hills on the Hume.

Can you imagine if a marked police car travelled at 80kmph in a 100/110kmph zone in heavy traffic?! I bet you wouldn’t see a single person tailgate or pull any aggressive and dangerous overtaking manoeuvres. It’d be the best behaved drive to the snow a lot of people would have had I dare say!

peterh said :

…the hay plain is black circle with strikethrough, always thought that meant 110. at least that is what i drive it at…

My understanding has always been that sign means you are free to drive to the highest limit available in that state. If that is right, while you could make a case for 110km/h being the limit in NSW, I would have thought that 100km/h was the go.

Ant is talking about an L-plater going well below both the speed limit and the 80kph restriction on a 100kph road, so I don’t think that really applies.

Just because you don’t think they’re gaining anything does not mean that it’s a futile exercise. Jessieduck (who is an actual L-plater) thinks it’s valuable, so there’s first-hand feedback. Personally, I also believe it’s valuable to have some sort of experience where you need to concentrate on the road and different unexpected hazards like wildlife rather than the traffic.

Please aa, have a think about:
a) why the rules are the way they are; and
b) why you think they should change.

After reading your posts, I think your answer to b) is because it promotes road rage. Is that the L-platers fault? Should they be penalised for other peoples behaviour?

Vic Bitterman said :

Holden Caulfield said :

You’ll be able to get past them eventually. More to the point, if the speed limit was 110km/h well, in NSW that would mean the road was a dual carriageway, so I’m not quite sure how this could be a major issue?

NSW has several country stretches of non-dual carriageway where the speed limit is 110 – I can think of the approach to Dubbo and parts of the Hay plain, for example. In fact, I’m fairly sure some stretches of the Hay plain are 120, but it’s been a few years since I’ve been out that way.

Fair point about the Hay Plains. I’ve been pulled over there doing 150km/h and been given a slap on the wrist. The point being that this is still not a road that is likely to suffer a huge build up of traffic behind a learner so as to cause an issue.

Can’t speak for the Dubbo roads, but if it is single lane and 110km/h then I’m guessing there’s ample straight roads with good visibility that would make overtaking pretty simple.

Vic Bitterman said :

Holden Caulfield said :

You’ll be able to get past them eventually. More to the point, if the speed limit was 110km/h well, in NSW that would mean the road was a dual carriageway, so I’m not quite sure how this could be a major issue?

NSW has several country stretches of non-dual carriageway where the speed limit is 110 – I can think of the approach to Dubbo and parts of the Hay plain, for example. In fact, I’m fairly sure some stretches of the Hay plain are 120, but it’s been a few years since I’ve been out that way.

the hay plain is black circle with strikethrough, always thought that meant 110. at least that is what i drive it at.
haven’t been pulled over by radar traps, been through a few.

Holden Caulfield said :

You’ll be able to get past them eventually. More to the point, if the speed limit was 110km/h well, in NSW that would mean the road was a dual carriageway, so I’m not quite sure how this could be a major issue?

NSW has several country stretches of non-dual carriageway where the speed limit is 110 – I can think of the approach to Dubbo and parts of the Hay plain, for example. In fact, I’m fairly sure some stretches of the Hay plain are 120, but it’s been a few years since I’ve been out that way.

aa said :

Madame Workalot – have you been stuck behind a learner on the road to Cooma during snow season? There’s usually 100 cars behind it going 80. When you finally reach the overtaking lane, the lane finishes before you get a chance to overtake (cause of the amount of cars infront). It sometimes take 3 or 4 overtaking lanes to reach the learner.

Plus having anyone other than the licensed driving with you is a bit dangerous. People tend to talk and too many back seat drivers try to tell you what to do, and it ends up very difficult to concentrate.

I can understand this is frustrating, but its still better to suck it up and count to ten. The drive to Cooma is all of one hour, is it really a big deal if it takes an hour and twenty minutes? Although, I agree in principle when it is busy like this it may not be the best idea to be gaining experience.

Having said that, if an L-plater is causing such a tail back you’d like to think the licensed driver supervising them had the good grace to get the learner to pull aside for a couple of minutes to allow other motorists past.

I think its okay to let a few cars build up behind, but when it comes to a point where it’s getting dangerous, then moving aside from time to time is probably a good idea too.

Basically, I reckon the rules are probably okay as they are. That’s not to say they shouldn’t change if there are improvements to be made. But, its the lack of common sense shown by either the L-plater/supervisor or impatient goons behind that is likely to create most problems.

i have seen horrific accidents on the hay plain, after the p plater has zoned out and run off the road, or into incoming traffic. can’t get much more flat and straight.

the other option for l platers and p platers and, indeed if wanted, licensed drivers is a defensive driving course. The NRMA run them.

learning to drive on the dirt helps as well.

How is driving on a highway at 100km an hour not real? I don’t see your point. Any experience to an L-plate driver = experience. Just because it is a straight line doesn’t mean a thing- they are learning to concentrate, look at what the cars ahead and behind are doing, learning to stick to the speed limit, not to zone out. It is all valuable.

How do i sound like a child Madame Workalot? All im saying is let them either go the limit or not drive on the road. Ant has experienced what Im talking about. I didn’t experience road rage, but OTHER drivers did. I personally don’t think they’re gaining any extra experience going on the highway than they would going on most roads around town. Obviously the learners system isn’t working (and you all think it’s good), otherwise you wouldn’t have the issues with P platers like we have at the moment. Teach the learners REAL experience and not just going on a straight road that’s 100km long! Make them do a course like the one for motorbikes before giving them to relo’s to teach them. Some relatives are responsible, but there’s a very high amount that aren’t responsible drivers and they are teaching these people to drive too!

aa – in NSW (which is where the majority of highways are) first year p-platers are restricted to 90kph anyway, so your argument that l-platers should be able to go 100kph is moot.

And please go back and read my post – I disagree with parents/responsible drivers allowing l-platers on the Monaro at peak times in the snow season.

I’ve got to say, now you’re just sounding like a petulant child who hasn’t got their own way. I almost feel like shaking you and saying ‘it’s not all about you, you arrogant twat’. Not sure if that’s how you actually feel, but to me that’s what it’s coming across as.

oh, and AA, how long have YOU had your license?

yup- sorry

jessieduck said :

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

And people who think menacing and getting cranky with an L plater is acceptable need to be beaten and shot. Regardless of their driving speed.

So far I have been lucky and had no bad experiences with other drivers. Not even tailgating on Barry Drive which I was dreading. If I do have anyone be mean to me I will jot down their licence plate and have you pay them a visit for me peterh!

that was VY, not me….

oops, make thatVYBerlina not peterh.

Although, if you two want to start a mob, that would be cool.

I’ve encountered a few lately, and it was inappropriate. The ones I’ve found are obviously very new to driving, are very nervous and uncomfortable, and esentially should not be on high speed roads until they are happier with driving in general.

It really highlights the issue of being taught by one’s relatives, where the relative shows such poor judgement.

Doing 80 km/hr should not be a huge issue on a 100 km/hr road, after all many do it.

However, a plainly nervous person doing 40 – 60 – 70 – 50 and wandering all over the road is a different matter. It’s plain they should not be on high speed roads yet.

You have to wonder what rubbish the person with them is teaching them.

Honestly mate, get a life.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

And people who think menacing and getting cranky with an L plater is acceptable need to be beaten and shot. Regardless of their driving speed.

So far I have been lucky and had no bad experiences with other drivers. Not even tailgating on Barry Drive which I was dreading. If I do have anyone be mean to me I will jot down their licence plate and have you pay them a visit for me peterh!

aa said :

And if you’re not going to let them gain the experience of driving 100km an hour, what’s going to happen when they get their Ps?

oh, i know this one, they will use their skills taught whilst doing 80, and accelerate to 100?

Learners need to get experience driving on highways, especially the B and C grade NSW highways (which is where a lot of Canberrans seem to get into trouble). Roads with potholes, washaways, flood dips, broken edges, single lane bridges, rail crossings and all manner of hazards should be learned with an experienced driver next to you, not on your own. It’s easy to forget just how bad some NSW roads really are – they are very different to the wide, smooth roads we have in Canberra.

And people who think menacing and getting cranky with an L plater is acceptable need to be beaten and shot. Regardless of their driving speed.

aa said :

Then you should also be able to get the experience of going 100km/hr too. Like I said, either allow learners to go the limit, or don’t let them go on road like that! If you want the experience of going 80km an hour, there’s a lot of roads where you can get that experience and not cause road rage.

what happens when the shielded learners encounter traffic on a highway for the first time as “p” platers? what happens when they have to make a snap decision regarding a dangerous environment, like a hay truck losing its load, an oncoming overtaking car in their lane, a truck that is going very slow on a big mountain downhill? How will they react if they haven’t been driving in normal road conditions?

so you were delayed by an L plater. how very sad for you.

I sometimes can make the choice as a licensed driver to do less than the limit, if i feel that the situation deserves it. I also understand the need for L plated drivers to encounter real life situations, and learn how to cope with road rage drivers, tailgaters, 3-lane changers and other daily traffic behaviors.

I would rather see an L Plater doing 80 on the highway, than read about yet another inexperienced P plater, who has driven into the barrier at 100km/h, or hit a pedestrian, or killed a family on their way to the coast. It also may be that the L platers have chosen the speeds that they are doing. if this is a speed that they are comfortable with, so be it.

And if you’re not going to let them gain the experience of driving 100km an hour, what’s going to happen when they get their Ps?

Here’s my vote: I think that ACT has the right approach at letting us drive at the prescribed speed limit but I am sure that NSW has valid reasons for disagreeing. I am very glad that I am doing this under the ACT system.

So basically no one here agrees that they should be either allowed to drive the limit or not be allowed on that road? Maybe the should put up a vote here and see who agrees with letting them go the limit.

They go that the prescribed speed limit in the state they are in. I am sorry if they were going too slow for you but they may have not been allowed to by their co-pilot who is unfamiliar with the current regulations.

What about ACT learners in NSW?

aa said :

Then you should also be able to get the experience of going 100km/hr too. Like I said, either allow learners to go the limit, or don’t let them go on road like that! If you want the experience of going 80km an hour, there’s a lot of roads where you can get that experience and not cause road rage.

In the ACT you can… It is NSW that has the limitation.

aa said :

a 21yr old can teach a learner to drive. When I was on my L’s, i got my friends to let me drive their cars, and they weren’t always responibile drivers. Im sure a lot of learners our there are like that.

Your co-pilot has to be on their full licence. I’m sorry if your friends weren’t responsible but I can assure you that my mother and sister are being vigilant at all times.

Then you should also be able to get the experience of going 100km/hr too. Like I said, either allow learners to go the limit, or don’t let them go on road like that! If you want the experience of going 80km an hour, there’s a lot of roads where you can get that experience and not cause road rage.

a 21yr old can teach a learner to drive. When I was on my L’s, i got my friends to let me drive their cars, and they weren’t always responibile drivers. Im sure a lot of learners our there are like that.

My point is aa that experience is experience.

well P platers aren’t allowed more than one passenger after a certain time (in NSW anyway), so why should learner drivers?

aa, because learner drivers have a fully licenced driver in the vehicle with them, who shares the legal responsibility for what happens in the car. P platers do not require supervision, hence the additional restriction on the number of mates in the car.

jessieduck – you learn to stop, start, give way, change lanes, etc etc! So you’re telling me you gain the SAME driving experience driving down a highway with no stopping or starting or red lights, etc that you’ll gain going on a road with red lights, stop signs, merging traffice, multiple lane? If thats the case, why doesn’t they just put you on the begining of the monaro highway for your driving test, tell you to drive to the end of it and then give it to you!!!

Madame Workalot – have you been stuck behind a learner on the road to Cooma during snow season? There’s usually 100 cars behind it going 80. When you finally reach the overtaking lane, the lane finishes before you get a chance to overtake (cause of the amount of cars infront). It sometimes take 3 or 4 overtaking lanes to reach the learner.

Plus having anyone other than the licensed driving with you is a bit dangerous. People tend to talk and too many back seat drivers try to tell you what to do, and it ends up very difficult to concentrate.

aa said :

Jessieduck – what driving skills are you actaully gaining on a highway? Except for staying in the one lane? Im not saying that learners don’t have the right to learn, all Im saying is either let them go the limit, or don’t let them on roads where it’s more than 100.

Are you serious?

What could I gain from driving down Northborne? What could I get from driving on Barry Drive?

Jessieduck – what driving skills are you actaully gaining on a highway? Except for staying in the one lane? Im not saying that learners don’t have the right to learn, all Im saying is either let them go the limit, or don’t let them on roads where it’s more than 100.

aa – As far as I am aware, there is no restriction on the number of passengers an ACT learner can have.

I don’t see a problem with a learner being restricted to 80kph – instead of thinking about how it slows you and other road users down and makes people angry, I think we should go back to basics and look at the reason for the restriction. It is easier to avoid obstacles/take evasive action at 80kph than 100kph, and I would much rather an L-plater have a greater chance of avoiding an action and slowing a few people down.

While I sympathise aa, I would like to point out that there are numerous overtaking lanes on the road to the South Coast, and the Hume Highway is 2 lanes. Therefore you are not going to be inconvenienced for the entire trip down. I would suggest grinning and bearing it. It’s better that everyone gets there alive. However, if you as a parent allow your child to negotiate the road to the snowfields on a Friday or Sunday – you should be shot. It’s suicide at the best of times.

On a final note, to those drivers who get really cranky and sit on l-platers bums and swerve from side to side because you can’t overtake – get a life. They’re doing the best they can. Give them room and be patient.

AA- how many L platers have you seen driving dangerously?? The ones you saw over the weekend seemed to have been driving cautiously- the problem, according to your story, was that people were getting fed up at going slow and were overtaking at inappropriate times!

I can tell you that when I am driving I am concentrating so hard on not making mistakes and learning as much as I can.

If you’re on the highway and you notice the L plate, then why can’t people chill for 5 minutes and give the poor bastards some breathing space. Presumably we were all on L plates at one stage in our lives.

You’ll be able to get past them eventually. More to the point, if the speed limit was 110km/h well, in NSW that would mean the road was a dual carriageway, so I’m not quite sure how this could be a major issue?

I’m not too up myself to admit that I don’t get the shits and run out of patience with other motorists on the road, but road use is as much about understanding and sharing with others as it is plummeting along in our little metal shells oblivious to anything or anyone else.

Learners are probably freaked out enough as it is on the highwat, without having a bunch of impatient arseholes freaking them out more.

well P platers aren’t allowed more than one passenger after a certain time (in NSW anyway), so why should learner drivers?

shamefos – maybe it is a good idea to do something like that before letting learners out on the main road! The do it for motorbikes, you have to do an upright course that takes a few hours and it teaches you the basics of how to ride. Maybe do something similar where they teach you how to drive, how to take corners, etc etc, then after that you get your learners and are allowed to drive on the road and at the designated speed limit!

aa said :

Either way, does anyone know if a learner is allowed to have more than the licensed driver with them in the car?

I just happen to have my Learner licence on me and it is for “C” class vehicles that can seat up to 12 adults including the driver…. personally I would never attempt at driving with more the two passengers at this stage… Plus no one wants to be in the car with me…

Lady_from_Holt said :

I can tell you that its not just the drivers sitting behind you while you’re going 80kph in a 100kph zone that get stressed out, its you too!

Absolutly it is stressful but isn’t it best to learn how to deal with stressful situations while you are learning- not when you get handed the golden ticket of your P-plates and you have a car full of rowdy friends to distract you?

I think it’s a great idea to stop learner drivers from driving at times when the traffic is heavy. In fact, get them off the road altogether, I say! Take it a step further! Why can’t the government fund a purpose-built driving school where the kiddies can learn to drive in a totally safe and totally sheltered environment? That way they’ll be totally prepared the first time they hit the open road and blend in seamlessly with all other drivers… FFS!

caf said :

The root problem here is the ridiculous NSW restriction on Learners doing more than 80km/h.

Spot on !

I understand they need to learn, but how much experience do they actually gain on a road that nearly straight, that’s 100km long? If you let them drive on those roads, let them do the speed limit then! Or get the person teaching them to drive to teach them to pull over and let the 100 cars queued up behind them to overtake. Plus people arguing about people that live in places like Jindabyne, it would be maybe 10% of the learners on the highway. The 3 learners I overtook on the weekend were ALL from Canberra (or at least the cars they were driving had ACT license plates).
Either way, does anyone know if a learner is allowed to have more than the licensed driver with them in the car?

I grew up living out of town and in order to get anywhere, I had to go on the highway. I can tell you that its not just the drivers sitting behind you while you’re going 80kph in a 100kph zone that get stressed out, its you too! I remember being very upset because I knew the cars behind me were angry. Years on, I still have issues and worry about slowing down the people behind me. Its irresponsible of parents to have their children drive on the highway during peak periods if they’re not used to it, and pulling over or merging on the highway when everyone is going 115 – 125kph (we all know no Canberran goes the limit) when you’re a learner is crazy! It’s far too stressful and dangerous for everyone involved.

The root problem here is the ridiculous NSW restriction on Learners doing more than 80km/h.

justbands said :

As mentioned, they need the experience of driving on a highway. However, learning to drive on the highway on say….the October long weekend, between Jindabyne & Cooma, doing 70-80 when there’s thousands of cars on the road is perhaps NOT a good idea. In fact, it’s a really, really STUPID idea. Speaking from experience here, you may have noticed. 🙂

I agree. BUT what if they are a Jindabyne local and that is their “real-life” driving? There is no point in being shielded from busy roads in wintry conditions if that is what you’ll have to do the week you get your Ps. You are better off doing it with Mum or Dad in the car giving you as much of their advice as they can before you go off and do it on your own.

As mentioned, they need the experience of driving on a highway. However, learning to drive on the highway on say….the October long weekend, between Jindabyne & Cooma, doing 70-80 when there’s thousands of cars on the road is perhaps NOT a good idea. In fact, it’s a really, really STUPID idea. Speaking from experience here, you may have noticed. 🙂

Hi AA- ACT Learners can drive at the prescribed speed limit in the state or territory they are driving in. The 80km applies to NSW Learners. NSW Learners are in a bit of a pickle because they do actually have to do highway driving to be eligible for their Ps.

As a late bloomer, I am in the process of getting my Ps at the ripe old age of 29. I really appreciate everyone’s patience while I learn and the drivers on the roads with me have been very kind and patient. No honking or angry overtaking so far!

A lot of families can’t afford to burn through petrol for a “one off” highway cruise with their learner so they take the opportunities to teach them when they can. For some families, that means the L plater doing a highway run with the whole family along for the ride on their summer holiday.

I don’t know if I agree with the NSW log book system but I am sure it has it’s merits. I am under the ACT system and I should be on my Ps by March.I just thought you might enjoy another perspective. I think you should just smile when you come across an L-plater- they are only doing what they have to so they can be an awesome driver like you.

How about letting the learners drive at 100? Driving at 80 on the Hume Hwy when it’s a little busy is pretty dangerous.

And they have to learn how to drive on the highway at some stage.

I had a feeling that in the ACT learners can drive at 100. It’s just NSW where the Daily Telegraph tells the NSW Govt what to do.

That would make it damn difficult for learners in country towns to learn – given every road outside town is going to be 100 km/h.

Also, learners have to get experience on all types of roads and all conditions.
The key is not that they don’t drive on these roads, but that they have the smarts and courtesy to pull over periodicially if they are not driving at the prevailing traffic speed.

As for people getting angry and doing dangerous overtaking, thats 100% their fault not the learners. They need to suck it up and deal with it, big deal, they’ll get where they are going 5 minutes later.