New CPO to be Andy Hughes?

Nice to see a policeman so ignorant of the basic foundations of justice DJ.

You can take what you like without any recourse to the law? You can make whatever searches powerful people want regardless of the law?

You, personally, sound like a one man corruption problem all in one.

“The way it is”

“the cost of doing business”

“I don’ like it but what are going to do”

“shut up about the law smart arse and do what we say or you’ll regret it”

“just doing a favour for a mate”

The catch-cries of corruption throughout the ages.

Looks like TAD has actually put substance behind what JB was floundering with. So JB where is the corruption? Let me get this straight – a request was sent to you from the AFP. I’m thinking this made you feel important so a degree and nothing came of it… the deflation must have been humiliating for you to hold a grudge like this.

A burglary was reported by you and CSI didn’t turn up?

“Personal inquiries for politicians under threat of confiscating our server (implied)”… imply what you will but if you were a git about providing information then why shouldn’t your server be seized as evidence?

So the grudge is because you were spoken to in a manner that reflected your actions?

fercrissake – dont you two have instant messaging or something ?

the argument has become a circle.

Ok, so we’re no more corrupt than other states and territories then?

If so can we please have the same corruption fighting bodies they have? Because there’s huge trouble in every other force in the country being found by those bodies.

As a test JB, go onto a blog in each state and call the local politician a paedophile.

We’ll compare the corruptness of each jurisdiction by how many get in contact with you.

There’s a specific exemption for websites in the legislation!

Can I make up charged and get the police to find out the identity of people I don’t like?

I don’t think so.

Like I said we seem to be working under different definitions here.

Criminalty was alleged. From memory I think the complainant alleged harrass/menace via telecommunications. It would’t have gotten up.

There have been other instances such as the minor theft of a document from a MLA’s office. (which turned up in the CT coincidentally at a similar time a staffer took up a position in a civil liberties organisation) and more recently a certain vandalism incident.

MLAs like any citizen can report crime. The response however is nt typical.

By the way JB. Is this the best corruption case you can come up with?

Mate, as a friend trust me there isn’t any corruption in ACT Policing whatsoever. Have a long ahct with Nick and he’ll tell you the same.

Even where no criminality has been alleged? (as was the case here)

It sounds more and more like we’re speaking very different languages.

Unfortunately we do live in a world where police have to investigate minor crap for local policticans. It is the same the world over. We don’t like it either.

And by oberving members “stuff up” I wasn’t referring to members involved in corrupt behaviour.

So the AFP won’t investigate a burglary but makes personal inquiries for politicians under threat of confiscating our server (implied) and you tell me there’s no corruption?

Sounds like an issue of definitions.

Wanting a transparent anti-corruption process does not make a citizen “anti-police”.

Labelling people “Anti-Police” because they want a transparent anti-corruption process strikes me as a touch unhelathy.

JB, it’s quite evident from your strong opinions without anything to back them up that you are anti-police and there is nothing that can be said to change your mind. I won’t attempt to but would like to offer my observations as someone (unlike you good self) who actually has a clue of what he is talking about in relation to this issue.

I have been an ACT police officer approaching a decade and have NEVER seen corruption in any form in my career. There are of course individuals as in any large organisation who stuff up but this is F- all in comparison to interstate police forces and the AFP is very quick to weed these people out.

The biggest issue facing ACT Policing is inexperience with a lot of members eventually seeking national AFP work. Out of the 70 or so coppers in General Duties at each station, about 50 have less than 2 years experience. The average Detective is in their early 30s with about 3-4 years policing experience.

Add low resources to the mix and you are talking about each station having 3 to 4 patrol vehicles on shift at each station covering about 80,000 people. Each station’s crime (Detective) team has about 6 members. These take turns being on shift and so in effect these 6 members cover the whole ACT. (I of course am not including other specialist teams that are around) The numbers of police quoted in the stats count all of the police including those in operational support areas such as intelligence, policy, prosecution support, tactical police etc. Out of the whole of the ACT Police, about slightly more than half would actually be operational.

Now to this mix add the extreme leniency of the ACT courts. Don’t underestimate the importance of actually remanding and imprisoning crooks to the crime rate. (Seriously, interstate courts hand out higher sentences for drink driving than we do for serious assaults etc)

Add all of these things together and you get a force that struggles with the job that is expected of it. Calling the individual members corrupt is just plain wrong and deeply offensive.

JB about the Liberal “Civil” matter. From my recollection a forum member called a certain MLA a “Michael Jackson Fan” and he made a complaint to the police. The investigating police sent you a request (via the intel support section) for your logs to ID the ISP of the “offender”. From my memory you wet your pants with excitement and informed all the local media outlets to get a little publicity for the site.

I would hardly call that being “shook down” would you? You could always have deleted the logs. Police hate getting involved in local political stoushes anyway. (You didn’t see that one end up in courts did you?)

Oh and by the way, VG is not typical and acts the same on the AFP discussion forum as he does here. It’s as unfair as condemning a whole cultural race by a bad experience with one member or a school by a single student.

I saw your posting. Something about a Sergeant and a Liberal? Sounds like the start of a gee up… Can’t say that I am aware of what this was all about. Did you follow this up with anybody and if so what was the official response? Did it make this blog and is there a link?

I actually agree with some of your last post! Amazing. Well, only the last part. Makes you look almost like somebody who might support the Police.

Sorry DJ, still waiting for your response to my real life example of the FFP being corruptly used for the benefit of the powerful.

In my extensive experience the top end of this town is in dire need of a clean out policing is but one part.

The fish rots from the head, but what we need is the hard working guys at the pointy end to stand up.

And more importantly we need systems in place to let them do that safely and with confidence.

but are they being charged now?

I worked doors in civic for many years and saw a number of security charged with assault.

DJ, you ask me to post details of specific events. The short answer is “No”, mainly because some people fear retribution from AFP members.

Yes, I felt I received a good hearing from AFP Management and explanation/action which is why I will take the same approach again and again should it be necessary. I encourage others to do the same if they are disatisfied. To see the then CPO shrug their shoulders in frustration while admitting procedural breakdowns was enlightening.

Hey DJ, while you are being a bit conciliarity, perhaps you could provide some insights into why AFP are reluctant to properly act/investigate complaints of assault on night spot patrons by some of the local security bozos.

Sorry I didn’t respond to johnboy before. I will now and fix his spelling mistakes at the same time:

“Your CPO is dead and the top brass acts as if there’s no point of interest?” – for a person who appears to be in touch with the media you have no idea – been hit in the head lately? A rugby player perhaps? Even the CT made a half hearted effort to expand on a few points of interest. Did you miss them?

“Three police charged with assault in the watch house” – and appropriate action is being taken… what no firing squad to satisfy you?

“No independent integrity body? No separate anti-corruption body?” – not required if you actually knew what you are talking about. You are still yet to provide ANY details of corruption – you can stop speculating and provide facts any time you want.

Bigred, I went over your post again and can see nothing positive about it except if you look at this in the right light it could be considered a back handed compliment: “these are only trivial offences that the local plods are being nabbed for”.

Not actually sure what point you are making about not being happy. You have not provided details about anything. You say you went to management – were you not satisfied with the response? Perhaps you had a different expectation of the outcome than you actually received?

“Slothfulness and incompetence”… use those words in a meaningful and true recount of an event that effected you personally and also involved the AFP.

DJ, there is a lot I don’t know about the AFP. Count yourself correct on that count. Frankly I don’t think I really need to know. But I do know that myself and a lot of generally law abiding citizens are far from happy. The attitude of the police members posting here doesn’t help that view either.

Me? When something has affected me personally I have made my concerns known to AFP management. If I have a less than satisfactory experience again, I will do the same. Can you suggest a better approach?

What you guys on the inside need to do is be objective about your organisation’s performance rather than blindly going on the defence.

Also, if you read my post again you will see I am very positive about Mr Hughes’ appointment and genuinely believe he can bring some meaningful change with him.

I’m guessing there is quite a lot you don’t know, but I don’t want to make this a personal thing. Ponder away….

Slothfulness and incompetence now? I guess it’s a change from that old chestnut corruption. I know you said you have no evidence of corruption but I’m sure you can produce some for the new accusations?

It’s a big statement and if you are simply stirring the pot it doesn’t take that big a person to have a go at an organisation that provides it’s members no ability to address baseless accusations like this?

I suppose if you have experience in the this field and can use it to measure the performance of the AFP then you’ll be able to expand on that…

You must go to interesting dinner parties.

Ah yes, I could imagine those dinner parties: “Oh, did you know that last week my letterbox was vandalised, and the police didn’t catch anyone. Incompetence!”

Bigred, how many times have you dealt with the police? And in all those times, were they always slothful and incompetent? Have you ever been slothful and/or incompetent at your job?

but yogie47, on the comparitive scale (against NSW, Vic, QLD) these are only trivial offences that the local plods are being nabbed for. I often ponder what we don’t know. After all, its the unkown unknowns that bite you on the bum when you least expect it.

I do admit I have no evidence of AFP corruption, just slothfullness and incompetence. It has been said at many a Canberra dinner party that the AFP couldn’t catch a cold in a Canberra winter. Hope Mr Hughes can turn that impression around.

On bad apple ruins the bunch.

Its good to see all the ‘honest’ people of ACT are on this forum. I’m sure none of the people alleging the police are corrupt have ever done anything wrong. I think having a small number of cops getting in trouble is a long way from saying their all bad eggs. Have a look at NSW & QLD Police, both had royal commissions and still don’t shape up to higher standards that the AFP seem to. As someone that did not grow up in the ACT I think the Police here are pretty good. I look at it this way, within every sector of the ACT population there are going to be people that commit offences or are just plain idiots. So why would a police force that draws from that population be any different. I’d be more concerned if cops weren’t getting in the shit for doing stuff wrong, because I think that would demonstrate no one was keeping an eye on them to may them accountable.

Agreed. Although I personally have no knowledge of corruption amongst the boyz in blu, that doesn’t rule out the possibility that it exists – or ever will.

Oh and it wasn’t that many years ago that an AFP sergeant shook us down (as an official matter) for information to help a senior Liberal with his own *CIVIL* matter.

So it’s not as if I think the problem is confined to the police. But I do think there are some major problems at the top in this town and we have no mechanisms in place to deal with them.

It seems unlikely that bad guys turn aside at the ACT border.

I would imagine that Mr Hughes’ instructions would contain some words about dealing with the general community disquiet about AFP servicing quality. To call them corrupt is probably a too big call. Dysfunctional and unresponsive are probably closer to the mark.

From what I have read and seen of Mr Hughes, this seems to be a top appointment. I hope it ends up being a long term gig, and the ACT AFP culture doesn’t beat him.

Your CPO is dead and the top brass acts as if there’s no point of interest? Yeah, nothing to see here.

Three police charged with asssault in the watchouse, (the only place they are under surveilance) nothing to see there either.

No independent integrity body? No seperate anti-corruption body?

Yeah, nothing to see here.

Again a suggestion of corruption from johnboy… no facts mind you. Back this up JB. “Corruption busting inclinations” – where would you start in this town? I mean from your extensive experience as a member of a police service and your qualifications in law enforcement and civil order strategies surely you can add value to the office of the CPO?

All good to post witty comments about fleeing a coup where other people were murdered and maimed – what would you have done for your family in the same position?