Riding the newly opened Civic Cycle Loop. Parts 1 and 2

Benaresq said :

Am I the only one confused by the raised path? What is the logic behind it?

If the raised section continued across the road like a wide speed hump, I could see some sense in it but having a bike path which constantly changes height seems really strange to me…

The raised path make it easy to exit the cycle way, or that is what I have found anyway. If I need the car I park it across the lake, the little bit of the cylce loop I use is on the top end of Bundah St heading west. It is so much easier to pop off at the end of the raised seaction than use the driveay further dow or the pedestrian path right on the intersection.

I am not sure that is the intention but that is the way I am using it.

On the accident front, cyclists need to be aware that they cant do the speeds on this path that they can on the more open parts heading into the city. Its no different to driving on the highway, you have to slow down in built up areas.

Anyway, it makes it safer in some sections such as Marcus Clarke St, its not 100% perfect but it is an improvement.

It will be good when the eastern side is finished.

Way too much stopping at red lights! What sort of cyclist are you ?

patrick_keogh said :

Furthermore, please decide whether you want to have your cake or eat it. Either there are hordes of cyclists making the additional 3m of road width a landmine of potential accidents for pedestrians or it won’t be used by cyclists. Pick one.

I can have my cake and eat it too in this case, simply because bikes or no bikes the way this intersection has been done makes it hard to see vehicles coming from the ANU direction. One of my colleagues has already had a close call here. Although it may have cost more the whole thing could have been done to get the same result and the refuge island kept.

So…

a) Monumental stuff up
b) Incredible waste of money
c) a & b
d) Passable but apparently designed by a 6 year old
e) Awesome, couldn’t ask for any more.

Consistency is very important when it comes to buggering up roadworks and upgrading cycleways and we’ve had that in spades for decades with roadworks so we’ve got some catching up to do with the cycleways and it seems we’re off to a good start!

johnboy said :

Oh for those wondering about the camera.
…
Used in the shock case which you can hear banging against the left side brake lever.

I thought that was you thinking thoughts, such as ‘Shit’ and ‘Hi Jesus, remember me?’

I found this scary, and I’m just the sort of wimp these measures are supposed to help. There seemed to be a lot of poles. A bit slalomy at times. Would be interesting to see it again at night.

On your bike! I’m a tad reluctant.

p1 said :

johnboy said :

gooterz said :

How much are bicycle licences going to cost?

Free Free Free to get you off your large unpleasant bottom and into something healthier.

My large bottom is only unpleasant today because of all the time it spent on a mountain bike on the weekend.

Full of crap… only “cyclist” in the world who claims people should be paying for licenses/registration.

Good effort at a troll though, when you’re already well aware that most riders also have car licenses.

On the video, a pleasant surprise to only see to selfish pricks parking in it.

Here’s what I got from your vid (thanks for taking the vid by the way):

1. Parts of the loop still need to be finished. It’ll be better when it’s all done.
2. I wish they’d organised the crossing down near Rydges better. As is, you have to cross through 2 lights to continue the right way on the path. Maybe they should have had bikes crossing right back down near the bridge, then they’ve only one set of lights to go through to continue in the right side. I can see why people want to continue up the wrong way without crossing the road.
3. Cars need to learn! Geez. Stopping in front of you and opening doors, stopping in your way on the green line etc. there’s going to be some time for everyone to get used to it.
4. Ditto for pedestrians. They’ll be walking all over this thing and there’ll be lots of cyclist-on-ped interaction to sort through.
5. you’ve got to admit this loop is still pretty smooth and safe compared to the old way of working your way through traffic and footpaths.

…oh and that’s summoned, not summonsed. Anyone who can make allusions to J.Alfred should know better.

JC said :

All this means is now when I cross the road I have to watch for bikes and cars on my right before stepping on the road, and pray that nothing is coming in the other direction because if it is I am screwed because you removed the refuge and change the flow of traffic. Great one.

Try this in a car. You get to see the oncoming cards for about 5 metres, so you have about 0.1 seconds notice they are coming, if your going down moore street towards barry drive.

It actually feels like a deathtrap.

It might seem busy with the bikes but i’m sure when all the fuss dies down and people stop trying to record the route to post on riotact the only thing that will change is that its more difficult for a) cyclists b) pedestrians and cars.

Cyclists make up what % of civic traffic?

How much did they spend on this?

I’m surprised they don’t tunnel under northborne to make either a pedestrian and car crossing to solve the problem of a divided Civic centre.

11:21, storm water grate running parallel to the direction of travel right on the edge of the cycle lane. I’d love to hit that in the dark on a skinny tyre road bike.

JC said :

How many extra bikes do you think are going to use a bike lane AROUND the city?

Trick question. People don’t need to be going AROUND the city to make use of the Civic Cycle Loop. For example on the section that you are so terrified of, students travelling from the new ANU residential precinct or O’Connor/Turner and parts further afield will benefit from the new safe route to the city. Similarly people who live in Braddon who work in Civic West/Acton travelling in the opposite direction.

I do sympathise if crossing Rudd Street is too hectic. Mostly the traffic travelling westward is well regulated by the traffic lights on Northbourne, and indeed the traffic travelling eastward is not the heaviest, but if it is all too hard it is less than 90m to the controlled intersection at Rudd/Northbourne. I do understand that this is a terrible imposition but you could give it a try.

Furthermore, please decide whether you want to have your cake or eat it. Either there are hordes of cyclists making the additional 3m of road width a landmine of potential accidents for pedestrians or it won’t be used by cyclists. Pick one.

johnboy said :

mossrocket said :

I see you saved a little time at 6:15 running the red light…

It’s confusing as hell and I was trying to pay attention to the traffic.

Not as confused as the mob at TAMS will be when they see all the “cars vs bikes” accident stats. Should be interesting, can’t wait for this one!!

johnboy said :

Gungahlin Al said :

That about sums it up. Up down up down, Drivers confusing it for footpath because of the raised surface. Or parking spaces.

The hand-laid tarmac looks fine and smooth, but it is rough as when taken at cycling speeds – a crook resonance is set up that makes me pity people with those crotch-killing seats…

Why it couldn’t just be nail-in kerbing and using the existing road surface I’m stuffed if I know. Would have cost a fraction of what it did and been done ages ago too.

And yawning gaps like the brand new bus pickup on Marcus Clarke, where it seems the bus stop design people totally forgot to talk with the bikepath design people, and just plain left that bit out. Try picking your way through there at knock off time! I have…

As for turning right: you either decide a way back you’re a vehicle and skip over to the right lane, or take it safe and decide you’re a pedestrian. Turning right from the left lane is for crazy Melburnians…

Don’t get me started on that bus stop! you go from a path wide enough to land an A4 Skyhawk on to dodging trees.

I’ll see your A4 Skyhawk and raise you my CAC Avon Sabre…

Am I the only one confused by the raised path? What is the logic behind it?

If the raised section continued across the road like a wide speed hump, I could see some sense in it but having a bike path which constantly changes height seems really strange to me…

Thanks ACT Government for making my crossing, as a pedestrian walking down Moore Street to cross Rudd Street so much more dangerous. Before you put this bike path in I could see what was coming both ways along Rudd street and you gave me a nice little refuge in the middle of the road to be extra safe.

Now you have a) changed the priority of traffic flow at the intersection with Moore Street meaning the traffic that isn’t going to stop is what I need to cross. You have b) remove the refuge island. You have c) put a nice green lane down between the footpath and the road on both sides meaning I now need to cross 4 lanes of ‘traffic’, again refer to point b).. And you have d) made it quite hard to see what is coming from the ANU direction because you have (quite needed) parking along the bit between Moore and Marcus Clarke Steet blocking my view of the traffic.

All this means is now when I cross the road I have to watch for bikes and cars on my right before stepping on the road, and pray that nothing is coming in the other direction because if it is I am screwed because you removed the refuge and change the flow of traffic. Great one.

PS How many extra bikes do you think are going to use a bike lane AROUND the city?

I’d make one small optimisation, to use the road for the short section of Marcus Clarke behind the Lakeside. That gives me only one crossing at that intersection. Apart from that it looks pretty good to me and I will use it. When the Marcus Clarke section is open it will be quicker and safer than riding up the eastern side of Marcus Clarke where there are many uncontrolled intersections including Gordon, Murden, Wilden Streets and Farrell and Hobart Place where you have to slow a lot more and where the ramps had poor alignment for cyclists.

Apart from one car running a red light, a couple of cars stopped illegally and a few pedestrians crossing against the lights it all looked molto tranquillo to me!

(looks lovely)

Except for the part riding towards lamp posts.

Dunno… looked lovely to me.

Is that a chest-mounted camera? Which one do you use?

johnboy said :

it’s the most terrifying space I’ve ever ridden on.

All the constraints and lack of maneuver as for a car with the vulnerability and effort of a bicycle.

Looking at the footage i’m not surprised.

I have ridden down Marcus Clarke St many times as I commute to work. The bike paths do make a great improvement. My comments

I will add, to respond to Pitchka, that if you get lights ‘wrong’ going down MC Street, it doesnt add 5 seconds, it can add a good 2 – 3 minutes per light. Since there are potentially 5 sets of lights, do the math.

As a general comment, I fully expect there will be a pedestrians trying to cross the road at the ‘wrong place’ (not a crossing) who will wander onto the cycle path because it is a path level and not street level and will not look. As with others, not sure why the cycle path is raised

Coming from Barry Dr – when you get to Rimmer/Childers St, the cycle path ends. I realise that you are meant to cross over and continue on the other side, but this means you end up having to go through the lights at Alinga St, whereas if you stay on the footpath you avoid those lights – result, people will stay on the foothpath and have to squeeze behind the bus shelter nicely built at the narrowest point of the pathway. Coming the other way (to Barry Drive) you have to go behind the shelter anyway. Call this a ‘draw’, it wont take bikes off the footpath but its a fairly short distance.

The lights at Rimmer/Marcus Clarke are a bit of a trap. There are three crossings and each can operate independently, so you cross section 1 with green, then section 2 is red but section 3 is green. I think it might confuse a few people, who will assume that because the first light is green they can cross all the way.

Crossing the lights at corner of Allsop St (where the multi story parking is) heading toward the lake. The road is painted green here, at the top of the T intersection. Cars wont be an issue (because its the top of the T) but pedestrians crossing the road will. Does the green on the road mean that pedestrians have to give way to bikes?

My view – either make cyclists stop at the red light (although then we just go up onto the footpath) or put a sign up saying ‘cyclists: give way to pedestrians on red’. Expect a few collisions as cyclists see a green path (keep going) and pedestrians see a green light. This needs to be clarified.They may have put a sign up today to cover this

Corner of Farrell Pl. Again a green crossing. But because the cycle path is raised, I’m quite doubtful as to whether cars turning right into Farrell Pl will actually notice the cyclists, because we arent on the road itself (where cars would have to give way) but look like we are on the footpath (where cyclists would have to give way). Anticipate a few collisions – warning for cyclists here. Dont expect cars to stop particularly those turning right.

Gordon St to Ediburgh – the cycle way is just a painted white line on the pavers. Expect pedestrians to wander around plus people crossing the road paying no attention. Expect a few collisions – warning for cyclists – edont xpect pedestrians to keep an eye out. Shouldnt be too much of a problem if the cyclists treat this as riding on a footpath rather than a cycle lane. Can we get it painted green?

Edinburgh Ave – as you saw from John’s video, when you come from the lake you are on the City side of Marcus Clarke St and if you go straight there is a nice cycle path to continue up – unfortunately going the wrong way. Add a ‘no entry’ sign right at the start, directing people to cross over the road to continue. Although as John mentioned, you then end up with a wait to get through 2 sets of lights just to cross the road.

All in all, a great improvement, but there are a few things that could be fixed or made clearer. I think cyclists need to treat this as a ride along a footpath but a bit better, rather than a ride along a road cycle path – keep fairly slow and expect pedestrians to wander into the wrong place quite a lot. Unfortunately pedestrians arent registered, so you wont be able to report them to the police…

Gungahlin Al said :

That about sums it up. Up down up down, Drivers confusing it for footpath because of the raised surface. Or parking spaces.

The hand-laid tarmac looks fine and smooth, but it is rough as when taken at cycling speeds – a crook resonance is set up that makes me pity people with those crotch-killing seats…

Why it couldn’t just be nail-in kerbing and using the existing road surface I’m stuffed if I know. Would have cost a fraction of what it did and been done ages ago too.

And yawning gaps like the brand new bus pickup on Marcus Clarke, where it seems the bus stop design people totally forgot to talk with the bikepath design people, and just plain left that bit out. Try picking your way through there at knock off time! I have…

As for turning right: you either decide a way back you’re a vehicle and skip over to the right lane, or take it safe and decide you’re a pedestrian. Turning right from the left lane is for crazy Melburnians…

Don’t get me started on that bus stop! you go from a path wide enough to land an A4 Skyhawk on to dodging trees.

mossrocket said :

I see you saved a little time at 6:15 running the red light…

It’s confusing as hell and I was trying to pay attention to the traffic.

PS: you’ve got to get better at swearing at people who park in your lane and try to car door you…

That about sums it up. Up down up down, Drivers confusing it for footpath because of the raised surface. Or parking spaces.

The hand-laid tarmac looks fine and smooth, but it is rough as when taken at cycling speeds – a crook resonance is set up that makes me pity people with those crotch-killing seats…

Why it couldn’t just be nail-in kerbing and using the existing road surface I’m stuffed if I know. Would have cost a fraction of what it did and been done ages ago too.

And yawning gaps like the brand new bus pickup on Marcus Clarke, where it seems the bus stop design people totally forgot to talk with the bikepath design people, and just plain left that bit out. Try picking your way through there at knock off time! I have…

As for turning right: you either decide a way back you’re a vehicle and skip over to the right lane, or take it safe and decide you’re a pedestrian. Turning right from the left lane is for crazy Melburnians…

I see you saved a little time at 6:15 running the red light…

7.30 the road from the right is a shocker. You can’t see anyone from the direction of the bike because you have parked cars to your left and your stuck well back because the put the bike lane in. Its an accident waiting to happen.

To be fair, your 13 minutes was to do the ride both ways. I don’t think you could do it in half that time unless you were proceding at an arguably dangerous speed on the footpath, even without the waiting for the lights at various corners. It’s not a bad start…but it’s not going to get junior or grannie cycling in the ‘burbs, which is what we need to get a culture of active transport

johnboy said :

gooterz said :

How much are bicycle licences going to cost?

Free Free Free to get you off your large unpleasant bottom and into something healthier.

My large bottom is only unpleasant today because of all the time it spent on a mountain bike on the weekend.

johnboy said :

well that ride on the paths took over 13 minute.

Without the paths it would have taken me half that because I’d have ridden on the footpath on the side I was planning to turn onto.

So all in all how would you rate the new cycle loop? looks a bit loopy to me!

gooterz said :

How much are bicycle licences going to cost?

Free Free Free to get you off your large unpleasant bottom and into something healthier.

How much are bicycle licences going to cost?

They so should have had better jumps at the end of each section to make it at least fun. Still it should be good to get the kids down to the lake from Turner on the weekends.

“Especially as turning right from these paths across both roads and the opposed cycle path takes a very long time”

HOW LONG? An extra 5 or so seconds?

HOLD THE FARKEN PHONE!!!!!

Is that Kenny Koala passing at 1m22s?

Still have no idea what is with all the up and down raised path business and not just a simple concrete divider, but it’s better than nothing. I would have avoided those streets like the plague before and now I can ride on them in relative safety. The drivers and pedestrians will get used to it in time (I hope).