22 November 2008

School based protection orders on the rise

| johnboy
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The Canberra Times brings word of a 38% increase in school based protection orders issued by the courts over last year.

The total number is 54.

    “The orders can apply to children as young as eight, require a court appearance and force the alleged bully to keep a distance of between 3m and 100m from their accuser, making them notoriously difficult for a school to enforce. Breaching an order is an offence that can result in a child acquiring a criminal record.”

Apparently Sheila Foliaki-Singh is the woman to see if you’re looking for some judicial intervention in the schoolyard.

You really can get a lawyer for everything these days.

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Granny said :

Gerry-Built said :

Maybe we need some tougher laws like these to protect all and sundry in our schools…?

Oh surely that couldn’t have happened!

Use substance to cause discomfort -it’s what that copper got charged with in the watch house.

Gerry-Built said :

Maybe we need some tougher laws like these to protect all and sundry in our schools…?

Oh surely that couldn’t have happened!

Maybe we need some tougher laws like these to protect all and sundry in our schools…?

It is not a case of running off to get an AVO too early (caf @ #50 is right), it is just that the school can only go so far, and real action *requires* the law – assault is assault, even at school – and suspension is just simply not the answer to assault(or enough action)!

Hdopler said :

Tooks said :


1. That’s never going to happen. Those days are gone.
2. What are you on about? Police will always be involved IF an incident is reported to them.

I think there are also too many people rushing off to get an AVO as a first resort.

Agree that many people rush off to get an AVO too early, but there have been cases where police have told a complainant that they will not get involved – not they can’t get involved – they won’t. That sucks.

Could you name a couple of cases where police told a complainant that they won’t get involved? Just curious.


Hdopler said :

Tooks said :


1. That’s never going to happen. Those days are gone.
2. What are you on about? Police will always be involved IF an incident is reported to them.

I think there are also too many people rushing off to get an AVO as a first resort.

Agree that many people rush off to get an AVO too early, but there have been cases where police have told a complainant that they will not get involved – not they can’t get involved – they won’t. That sucks.

As for 1, that’s both the problem and a potential solution.

Tooks said :


1. That’s never going to happen. Those days are gone.
2. What are you on about? Police will always be involved IF an incident is reported to them.

I think there are also too many people rushing off to get an AVO as a first resort.

Agree that many people rush off to get an AVO too early, but there have been cases where police have told a complainant that they will not get involved – not they can’t get involved – they won’t. That sucks.

It’s not bollocks at all, although I was talking more about tit-for-tat cases (bad kid v another bad kid), rather than genuine cases of bullying.

Bollocks. If an AVO is being sought it means that the child has spoken up, which means that the bullying has almost certainly been going on for months if not years.


1. That’s never going to happen. Those days are gone.
2. What are you on about? Police will always be involved IF an incident is reported to them.

I think there are also too many people rushing off to get an AVO as a first resort.

The problem can be fixed by:

1. Giving teachers real power over students: canning, suspension, expulsion should all be back on the cards. Caning last resort it should be noted, after all other methods have failed.

2. Police need to have their butts kicked and get involved in school cases. Granny is right in saying that the school is a workplace and the protection of the law should extend to it.

That said, the world is not a nice place and kids do need to learn to deal with people that are (a) idiots (b) nasty (c) mean-spirited etc without resorting to taking out AVO etc, as always there is a fine-line between what one child will perceive as ‘bullying’ and others as simply light-hearted ‘taking the Mickey’

Special G (@#42): “Think outside the box instead of just whinging about it” – and your suggestion is thinking outside the box (along with the chain-gang and solitary)??? …and modifies the bad behaviour/bullying how? In this day and age, I think we are beyond such methods, are we not?

These problems are not here because we removed canes and dummies hats! They are here because nothing was put in their place except “schools need to work it out for themselves”… Classroom teachers have no power, and those that do (executive) are sometimes unwilling to do so because of the way the system is set up to discourage suspensions and eliminate expulsion.

…and rather than just “whinge”, I did actually throw some ideas in too 😛

Parents are also to blame in so far as not having set limits (ie what is acceptable) and disciplining (not beating up) their children with consequences when these limits are stretched or broken. If kids are already misbehaving by the time they are in school, what hope have teachers got of straightening them out after they’ve been broken already? Having said that, It’s not like a “Dummies Guide” is handed out to new parents, and perhaps that’s part of the initial problem?

Discipline is all about teaching a lesson, not scaring / threatening. Restorative Practices are meant to let they bully know what damage they’ve caused, but if the barometer is already broken, how can they understand?

Yes, come on Andrew. Why not take a peek incognito? It would be so much fun that alone should be worth it. It’s good to be the King! What’s power for if you don’t use it? How boring ….

Right now I’m inviting the Minister to come to my school – WITHOUT NOTICE so the school doesn’t ‘clean up’ etc – and see what really goes on in a school.

As a public servant who once dealt in this sort of stuff, I can tell you that it won’t happen. Ministers never go anywhere without a full event brief.

Too true Thumper. It’s a bit like the Royals believing the world really does smell like fresh paint;) But what an initiative it would be for Barr to do something bold and different for a change!

Special G, we have Level 2’s with 1-3 years teaching experience PERIOD in the system.

They don’t even have the classroom experience down pat and they don’t have a clue to begin with. They’ve been chosen over teachers with 10+ years experience and knowledge. I still question that logic.

They don’t do any other Professional Development than ‘how to be a Level 2’.

It’s not about ‘whinging’, it’s about getting the job done and protecting our students from bullies.

Kids in the 80’s at Darra got more than just a cricket bat across the buttocks.

Level 2’s trained in dealing with behavioural issues.

If we don’t have them currently we get them. Think outside the box instead of just whinging about it.

Well Ive got to say it but this stuff was never an issue at Darra during the Eighties. I got the strap for simply talking in assembly in grade 5. The edge of the ruler across the knuckles in grade 5 and 6 and for high school entertainment I got the cricket bat across the arse. All in good fun and and all for a few small misdemeanour’s. Others copped it worse for more serious matters of school yard behaviour but it certainly kept us all under control.

It all seems to have unravelled due to bleeding heart left wingers and political correctness gone mad along with increasing levels of bureaucracy and regulation that is bring the country to its knees.

Nyssa76 @ #35 – I agree on “Circle Time”. My executive teacher made me have one when I had some trouble with a class – I just wanted the buggers to behave, not let them know how it made me feel that they behaved badly 😛

But I did like the stuff where “accused” had to face “victim” etc – worked wonders for minor bullying stuff (sexual harassment in the instance I dealt with)… but had to involve the Deputy in that one, as I did not have RP training. Maybe a RP unit could manage all cases at one location?

Neither monetary fines (although Granny at #38 might be onto something), nor cane are the right answer either – “yeah, you hit someone, so I’m gonna hit you with a big stick…”, Plus, I got the cane in primary school for something I did not do (and had proof I didn’t) – so I figured, if I’m gonna get in trouble anyhow…

and ant was right – these kids don’t understand that what they are doing is wrong – I guess that is what RP tries to do.

I agree with that. Money’s about the only thing these people seem to understand. As the government shovels more and more money at people for having kids, it’s not surprising that more “parents” have the attitude that actually raising their kids is someone else’s job too.

Although I don’t think they want to outsource discipline; from what I’ve observed, these people believe their kids can do no wrong. No matter what they do, it’s OK with these people, and if the law or some other authority objects, then the law or other authority is in the wrong. witness the inarticulate loons who come on here to support their criminal friends/family members. There is no notion of wrongdoing evident.

I reckon the parents should have to pay for any resources allocated to the behaviour management of their child by the education department.

They should also have to pay compensation to the family of the child victimised by the antisocial behaviour of their progeny.

If they want to outsource discipline, then user pays.

Bring back the cane.

This whole situation is disgraceful and depressing. There seems to be a large and growing number of parents who won’t raise their kids properly (that’s the government’s job, apparenlty), and won’t allow the schools to discipline their unpleasant kids. So these brutes make other kids’ lives a misery, take up valuable class time, and dilute the value of school for every other kid. They stress teh teachers, helping to de-motivate them, and in fact are a blot and contribute nothing of value.

Why won’t anyone do anything about this?

Basic part of the human rights bill Nyssa – you can say what you like.

I always do Special G. That’s the problem at my work, no one listens and if you dare disagree with the hierarchy, you are ‘punished’ e.g. denial of Professional Development, no help with student welfare issues, talked about in an unprofessional manner, or my personal favourite, have your principal pick a fight with you in front of your class.

Gerry, Restorative Practices are ok, but not for all situations or all children. I don’t like the ‘touchy feely’ stuff that comes out of Circle Time etc and it doesn’t get the message across that bullying = bad = consequences for your actions.

Anyhow, I discovered that the Safe Schools Taskforce has solved all the above problems, recommending that all schools adopt Restorative Practices ASAP – see the response here
I guess what we need to see is some action? Yes?

…and staffed by whom, Special G?

Basic part of the human rights bill Nyssa – you can say what you like.

Each school needs an equivilant of solitary. A purpose built demountable where the naughty kids get to sit in their own classroom/cubicle and do work. Then change suspension to solitary work with chain gangs in the breaks.

Thumper, I know that, but it only proves my point – they’re not interested.

Yes they should.

But no school wants their ‘dirty laundry’ aired, especially to the Minister or the media, for that matter.

Staff should be entitled to make anonymous submissions on this type of thing. Can you speak to your union rep about it? It’s wrong if the people most intimately concerned cannot speak freely. That should be your basic human right.

Granny, I’d go further than just student-student bullying. I don’t think the Minister would want to hear that.

But you’re right.

Only problem is, I can be charged with misconduct for speaking out, even though the Minister himself said (last year) that no teacher would be fired etc for speaking out.

That’s part of the problem, people want to speak out but the department knobbles them.

I think you should see the minister, Nyssa76. I would talk to the other parties as well.

I just found all 3 papers I wrote on the Student Welfare policy (1989 not 1992 – I knew it was written when I was in high school myself). My professor even wrote on one that both he and I should see the then Minister, Katy Gallagher about it.

I’m more than happy to forward them to the Minister and even to JB if he likes.

Gerry, I do know you! 🙂

I’m still in Tuggers teaching. Sometimes I wonder why…

At the end of the day, the parents are responsible for their child’s behaviour. If they refuse to acknowledge there is a problem, there isn’t much a school can do.

I don’t agree with that, as I believe parents are responsible regardless and if they can’t ‘act’ like parents, they shouldn’t have procreated in the first place.

I’ve called parents about their child’s behaviour and some agree, others can’t be arsed.

When the ACT DET’s (a higher source than the school) bullying policy doesn’t enforce removal for anger management or behavioural assistance, there is a problem.

However, they’re all too busy having 2hr lunches and organising their flex time to bother looking at schools at the chalk face.

Right now I’m inviting the Minister to come to my school – WITHOUT NOTICE so the school doesn’t ‘clean up’ etc – and see what really goes on in a school.

He can come into my classroom and spend the day with me viewing the situation from a better perspective than the comfy chair he has in the LA.

BerraBoy68: Was I unclear, sorry: I wasn’t saying that OH&S laws do not apply, only I didn’t see why people were saying that POs shouldn’t be used/needed, but then saying OH&S should be – I don’t think you can say use one, but not other…

OH&S laws cover employer, employee and third parties. In theory, students are classes as a “third party”, in much the same way as a contractor might be. I don’t see that relevant OH&S laws couldn’t be applied (more that the current process is seen as legally adequate perhaps – not sure in whose eyes however). ie In Technology electives, we regularly remove students for being an OH&S risk due to inability to stop doing dangerous stuff (throwing tools and materials around, using machinery and tools inappropriately etc).

I’m not sure why OH&S laws and other criminal laws where you can go straight to a lawyer cannot apply to the same workplace, Gerry. They do in other workplaces. Students and teacher alike need to be protected equally from bully’s, regardless of whether these are other students or staff.

I’m not sure JB’s suggestion of detention on Saturdays would make much difference, even if you could get a poorly behaved kid to attend on a weeken. This was a regular detention at Marist when I was there in the 80’s and I don’t think it modified anybodies behavior. That said, I think teachers were generally safer than they are now, so what has changed? Is it that kids do have more rights now or that they know them better?

Nyssa, you are correct about that Tuggers school 😉

JB – agree on suspensions – Saturdays sound great – now, about staffing those…

Gerry, I have a sneaking suspicion that I know you and have worked with you at that school in Tuggers 🙂

Was the school close to Theodore?

JB, it’s all PC now in regards to school suspensions.

The victim has less rights than the bully.

You can’t expel anymore and as Gerry said, the North and Southside areas are a joke thanks to the Stanhope Government and their closure of behavioural units.

Is there any punishment more useless than suspension?

Sure in theory you’re smashing a small part of the child’s chance at a successful future, but to kids already failing to grasp defered gratification and often already bunking off school at the first chance it just doesn’t cut it.

Make them go to school on Saturday and you’ll get a better outcome.

nyssa76 said :

I’d be happy to sit down with the Minister but I’m afraid he wouldn’t like what I have to say about the lack of procedure.

hear hear! Maybe time to contact Mr Barr ’bout it? Getting tough means not having suspensions linked in anyway to school performance (ie funding) which I believe is the current practice? Time a new, more consistent approach was reached then?

nyssa76, you’d probably be interested to hear then that 3 days for swearing *at* a teacher is the norm (at my school) too… I’ve not seen that anywhere else (though it IS in reaction to a culture, as is the fighting) – let’s just say Charnwood is a feeder suburb for my HS… though I have worked in a gem of a school in Tuggers too, which had a “more difficult” feeder area (well greater number anyhow) – but greater resourcing to provide for the particular / identified needs… and used the “Restorative” approach, which seemed to work for a limited period (on individuals I mean)

the usual practice is 3 days for fighting, and 5 days per re-offence

Gerry, I agree with not naming schools, but I’d really like to know so I can transfer there. My own school doesn’t support that basic policy.

I’d be happy to sit down with the Minister but I’m afraid he wouldn’t like what I have to say about the lack of procedure.

Just FYI, when I was researching the student management policy for my Masters, the policy that is still being used (as of 2006) was dated 1992 and it is ACTDET policy to update the policy every 3 years.

I think the current system is a disgrace, but to blame the teachers! Why is it wrong to involve the law through Protection Orders, especially when a few of you are saying OH&S laws should apply? If I got beaten up at work, or bullied – I am not going to relevant OH&S legislation – I’m going straight to the police and lawyers! Either laws apply to students, or they don’t… (I understand that OH&S laws DO apply, with students included as a “third-party” in relevant sections)

Teachers generally take missbehaviour, violence and defiance very seriously. In fact that most teachers and executive staff would RECOMMEND that bullied children SEEK Protection Orders because the only way to get tough on the bullies is to involve the law (which a suspension cannot do). There is only so far a school can take matters without involving the law. If students live “in area” they cannot be suspended for more than 5 days by the school, yet alone expelled, and facilities do not exist to remove the bullies from usual school setting (and don’t mention Northside or Southside, because they are part-time at best). Upon return, a student and parent/carer sign a return agreement is signed by executive staff of the school (usually Deputy as head of student welfare), where they agree not to repeat the behaviour – now that is an agreement not worth the paper it is written on.

To say that a teacher wouldn’t take action because of the paperwork involved is laughable! Believe me, teachers are so used to paperwork that it becomes second-nature. But beyond reporting bullying incidents, we have no power – that moves on to executive staff… and as previously stated, a school cannot do anything beyond 5 day suspension of it’s own accord… Besides, teachers would normally be happy to see offenders out of the school, because they are normally the students that give the most trouble in other aspects, such as defiance and work-avoidance. Teachers are encourage to report any violent or aggressive behaviour to document a child’s history, and this goes on their permanent record. In our school (not telling), the usual practice is 3 days for fighting, and 5 days per re-offence. It is also usual to do the same for those that incite fighting and those that think it amusing to make their way to watch and encourage fights…

I agree that mediation is key (not the whole answer though). What I would like to see is a system introduced to remove bullies from schools (those that have a DOCUMENTED history of bullying/violence and attract *even one* PO) to attend a live-in facility that puts them through anger-management (or similar) for a minimum of one week. Remove them from family, friends and their support networks. Mind you, if it is difficult enough to find teachers, imagine where you’d get staff for this sort of facility!

The law says kids must go to school, DET (and justice system) says they must be able to attend their “in area” school. Now – to a degree, violence, defiance etc is part of growing up – it is always going to happen, but we need to be able to get across to those who use it that it is not OK! We need to be able to intervene before a child is able to generate a long, documented history (earlier intervention).

I can assure you, most teachers would welcome tougher dealings for bullies… and most of us do what we can (in fact most teachers would be able to tell you a story of breaking up a fight or “heated discussion”)… we report, we document and we repeat the process…

..and without trying to start anything – at times, victims have been known to have done something to draw the attention of a bully – maybe that needs some work too? (in one class recently, name-calling escalated to near blows between two students, despite my interventions) Though a bully CAN often spot a weak one in the herd too…

That’s great, BerraBoy68! That’s totally the sort of issue I’m talking about.

I do have to wonder what approaches have been tried to solve this problem worldwide, and how successful the various ones have been. Also whether the most successful ones would translate into the Australian playground.

Very true Granny. I’m also looking at this problem from the other side noting my connection to the Marist abuse issue. Students need to feel safe from both other students and teachers/staff.

Of interest, there is a disconnect in the OH&S legislation that needs to be addressed in the ACT. In a school if a staff member is injured by either a student or another staff member they are covered under current OH&S legislation. The students, however, are not. The trick then, is how do you then discipline students who hurt other students and teachers? Personally, depending on the scale of the abuse, I’d suspend/expel them and let the parents deal with it.

As part of the Marist issue we’ll be writing to Simon Corbell to seek to have the OH&S issue addressed. BTW: we’ll also be asking Corbell to have the Statute of Limitations extended in cases such as Marist and Dara noting the scale of the abuses committed at these schools, but that another story….

Firstly, schools are the equivalent of the work place for kids. That is where they do their work, and work is what they are expected to do. School work and home work. Work.

Many of them would rather be in the paid work force, perhaps, rather than the waking nightmare that is their lives. However that is not an option.

Secondly, the whole thing is getting completely out of hand. Just google ‘bullied to death’ ….

There must simply be zero tolerance for bullying. If we don’t protect our children, who will?

And Nyssa76 is correct. At Lake Ginninderra College while my daughter was there, teachers were pushed aside and doors broken down so a gang could bash a student.

It has to stop.

The problem is that too many parents won’t let public schools enforce rules, and discipline. If their bullying offspring gets punished, these failed parents make a fuss. The bully is basically told that it’s OK to do what they do, the school gets a kick in the pants, and they wonder why so many parents are sending their kids to private schools, where (usually) discipline does prevail.

Weary Helper9:19 pm 22 Nov 08

Well johnboy not one for commenting on forums or blowing the legal profession’s trumpet, I feel strongly enough to post and say :- there have always been lawyers for almost everything and who make a lot of money out of people’s miseries(!!) – however not many who care enough about our young (and the hard and troubled times in which they are being forced to grow up)and one who helps the community, by devoting a sizeable chunk of their time when called upon by : victims, families and support organisations – and paid nothing or at measly Legal Aid rates, to try and ensure that when YOUR child, nephew, neice or young relative goes to school or the playground he/she is not likely to be bashed; stabbed; pushed down and almost raped by a group whilst being photographed; (a girl) bashed by a group of girls and various sexual acts performed on them; challenged to fight so others can use their mobile phone cameras and post “the fight” on facebook, youtube,or other social networks and infra-red or bluetooth, email or MMS it to each other;( I could go on and on…) AND THAT SCHOOLING , SPORTS, OR JUST BEING A CHILD – REMAINS A POSITIVE ENRICHING EXPERIENCE IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT AND ON THEIR WAY TO ADULTHOOD; and that we as a community do not have to pick up the pieces, a few years down the track as the victim turns up in our criminal justice system – a broken or tormented adult as a result of the schoolyard bully/ies actions (and this is not just an excuse nor just a crutch). There are too many bullies (and as our children are taught in school -‘bully bystanders’ or bullying groupies) – in our schools, sports, on sporting boards, – AND – for adults even in workplaces and in social circles – not to mention those that make and change our laws and rules – the public service and administrative bodies! So do not deride those WHO ARE ABLE TO AND DO TRY TO HELP you and others. Perhaps the ethos of the peace love… 60s/70s era is what needs to be taught (haha!!!! and pigs will fly). – SORRY COULD HAVE MADE THIS MANY SHORT SENTENCES BUT IT JUST LOSES IT’S EFFECT – just as your comment was couched to generate comments and a reaction.

Perhaps schools (headmaster, teachers, acting in concert) should be allowed to chastise, expel, deport the bullying little darlings without having to answer to precious parents.

Demonstrating that a community standard has been set, and contrary conduct is not acceptable, establishing a benchmark. Students whose conduct offends will have no recourse, and parents of these thugs will be brought to the realisation that society has found them wanting.

Could have very positive ramifications, spilling over into family discipline.

affordable, it takes a hell of a lot to ‘remove’ a student from the school and if they are in area, it’s almost a non-event.

Piratemonkey, last week I saw 150-200 students (lead by 10-15 students not from my school) try to enter the school and trample teachers who were protecting a student who was about to be bashed. I, myself was almost trampled trying to protect the student and their sibling.

They walked through the school in an attempt to locate the student (which they didn’t) and several police had to attend.

Not all teachers ‘look the other way’ and not all would put their bodies in the way of a mob of teenagers to protect one child.

Piratemonkey7:17 pm 22 Nov 08

You know teachers are not doing their jobs or more likely their hands are tied and can’t do their jobs when court orders are needed to solve issues like “matt keeps punching me mum and the teachers wont stop him” :’-(

IMHO bulling kids are ripe for being assh*les as adults so we should start with showing them whos boss young. Restraing orders FTW.

Political correctness
is there an allocation of how many times a person may offend before action will be taken and i assume the max penalty if found guilty is a new school.
appears to be the same result after they leave school and enter the real world

GottaLoveCanberra6:48 pm 22 Nov 08

Don’t for one second think that society is becoming more violent. We’ve always been violent it’s just that the ‘rules’ that are supposed to hold us back are being whittled away or going unenforced.

DJ, I deal with bullying on a daily basis and my classroom is known as a ‘safe haven’ for many a bullied student because I won’t tolerate bullying.

The ‘policy’ where I work is not worth the paper it is print on as the bullies get a slap on the wrist whilst the victim/s are forced to either 1) stay or 2) move schools because the system is set up to placate the bullies and not ‘make a scene’ or draw attention to the failings of the school/s.

Any teacher who fails in their duty of care to protect students should be sacked immediately. Any ‘supervisor’ (those who can suspend etc) who fails to do their job should also be sacked. However, many a ‘suspension’ can now be overturned on appeal (by the parents) IF any inclination of a suspension is stated or implied BEFORE all the ‘evidence’ is gathered i.e. student statements. If a child is seen bullying another student, it has to go through a paperchain BEFORE they can be even considered for suspension.

As for the ‘a school is a workplace for the teachers, not the children’ believe me when I tell you that in several ACT schools, the bullying that takes place is staff related moreso than the bullying that is student related.

It’s all about who has the ‘power’.

Nyssa76 you are not helping with ideas to make the system work. How do you, as a teacher, improve things? You must have found yourself in a position where you have seen first hand the system fail. Bring back the strap or cane?

Since you are in the system can you explain why a teacher who is obviously too lazy or negligent to prepare paperwork to HELP the victim and offending child can still remain employed?

A school is a workplace for the teachers, not the children – I think the teachers and administrators need to lift their collective games.

Granny, as someone who knows what goes on in a school yard, let me applaud you. You hit the nail on the head.

School bullying policies aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.

In saying that, protection orders can reduce the number of ‘requirements’ of a normal order due to the size of the school etc – which simply isn’t good enough.

When one student has 3-4 protection orders against him/her, then that student should be removed from the school by ACTDET to protect the victims (and future victims).

It’s a disgrace alright, for the reasons Granny said plus some.

It starts at the top. We have a bullying culture – just look at the Education Minister’s behaviour in 2006 and since. Our culture is increasingly violent too. You could blame whatever you like – parenting, media, teen pop-culture – but it won’t change the fact that it is there and not being addressed beyond some media hand-wringing and official denials of the isseu even existing.

On top of that, some teachers have found it easier to avoid reporting violence because the paperwork requirements are now too onerous, and DET won’t back them up anyway.

Students can threaten to kill others, and the school says parents of the victims are overreacting because it was ‘just words’. No wonder these things end up in court.

I think the existing procedures in the schools do nothing to provide protection to children from their peers.

Children are required by law to attend school, but are the only group that really don’t seem to enjoy the full protection of the law regarding their workplace.

Anyone else would only have to allege harrassment in a workplace not actual assault. ‘Everybody knows’ that it’s acceptable for kids to be subject to the ‘law of the jungle’ because ‘school is like that’, whilst grown men and women had unions to fight for their conditions to be improved so that they could be safe, happy and productive in the work environment.

Without anyone to advocate for them, kids have been left behind, if not in the dark ages then at least in the very worst of the industrial revolution.

The whole thing’s a disgrace.

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