6 April 2011

Sex scandal at ADFA

| johnboy
Join the conversation
57

Ten news last night had a rare scoop with a sleazy sex scandal at ADFA.

Basically “Kate” had a booty call relationship going with another cadet who was allegedly stupid and grotty enough to webcam it to six other cadets who then further distributed the scenes.

It appears Kate’s going to face some disciplinary action for the fraternisation.

But hopefully all the idiot lads (and possibly ladies) involved who can’t hide the evidence can be booted out before too much has been spent on their training. To serve as a warning to current and future cadets that if they’re unable to conduct themselves in a manner becoming an officer they should at least make sure they don’t get caught.

[Note to news editors, RMC Duntroon is not ADFA]

screenshot

Join the conversation

57
All Comments
  • All Comments
  • Website Comments
LatestOldest

Felix the Cat said :

The news report on the radio I heard earlier said something along the lines of she reported the incident to ADFA superiors who didn’t deem it worthy enough for investigation so I guess she didn’t have much choice then to go to the media .

Please don’t tell me you actually believe the news. ADFA indeed deemed it worthy, and even passed it onto the ADF Investigative Service (ADFIS) for investigation. They even deemed it too important for themselves and passed it up to the Australian Federal Police (AFP). It was the AFP who didn’t deem it important enough for charges.

btw what happened to the court case? It all seems to have gone very quiet all of a sudden. Or was the media only interested in unsubstantiated rumour and not the real courtcase/truth? On 2nd thoughts, I already know that answer.

Apologies for resurrecting but seeing as this has now caused no less than 6 inquiries, forced the government to hire a team of lawyers asking for other defence members to step forward, an entire examination of sexism and the role of women within the defence force and the sacking (in time) of a senior navy officer I thought it relevant to update…

Word around the trenches is that –
The young lady involved is set to retire for life on a sizeable payout
The young grub involved looks set to continue in the ADF due to what I’ll discreetly call operational influence and;
The instigator of the skype broadcast looks set for discharge

*yawn* What is the scandal? Who gives a shyza?

sepi said :

Um – yes she is. She should be the entire focus of the story…

Focus only on her case, and once the media stops this round of the white woman in trouble syndrome, it goes back to being just another day at ADFA until the next complainant steps forward.
Unless other women want to come out and tell their story, yore going to simply watch the girl fade back into obscurity, and then do your usual Sepi thing of screaming about how unfair the female condition is, the next time some other woman finds herself in identical circumstances.

Focus on the circumstances that made her need to go to the media and get the Minister to comment on ADFA, and you can try to minimize the number of women who find themselves similarly compromised.
Set an example of the perpetrators, and you might even see some institutional progress.

But by all means, ignore potential for systemic problems if it helps you move onto the next news story, and wait for the next opportunity to fix things.

Sleaz274 said :

“The way men talk about women in the army is horrible…”

Have you been to a pub lately? Or listened to tradies having their morning brew? Don’t think the Army is somehow magically different.

Chewy please put forward your argument why this young lady should be kicked out as well. It would be better than just your constant back pedalling now that more reasoned opinion has emerged away from the Today Tonight chattering crowd.

Skid maybe you should have presented some sort of counter argument 3 posts ago instead of just brandishing around the policy document like a metaphorical sword with which to lop off all their heads. Why not fix the policy seeing that it is obviously inappropriate and broken rather than try to “fix” the humans? The rumour is they tried that with bromide hahaha.

Two wars, civilian killings, dwindling recruitment and retention numbers, a huge budget blow out by billions, a broken procurement process and did I mention two unwinnable wars? I’m sure Houston has a lot more to worry about than if cadets in private and behind closed doors have a relationship.

Once again if anyone can articulate an argument why this young lady should be kicked out, as you all keep screaming for, then please go ahead. Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

The problem isn’t just the relationship that should be dealt with, but also the problem is a breach of dignity, a breach of trust and the attack on women. If nothing is done it reinforces how this is ok, how you can film whoever you want in whatever state and distribute it. it is wrong and it happens more than people think. This type of behaviour is done knowing that it is wrong, knowing that it will have negative effects on that person. It is a malicious act and those boys need to be brought down hard.

sepi said :

#52 “Really, the woman isn’t the focus of the story here.”

Um – yes she is. She should be the entire focus of the story. Her life will never be the same again. This is not just an academic discussion of a 50 page document, this is a person who has been badly wronged.

Both by the worm who pretended to like her then slept with her for a prank, for his mates who had a gay old time watching, by the ADFA high-ups who failed to realise how damaging and wrong this is, and by the ACT police who apparently can’t find a crime unless they feel like it – and even by our laws which don’t seem to specify that this is a crime.

thank you
this is true, this is very damaging to her and all defence women. Something big has to be done to ensure that this never happens and instead of seeing women as guests in the defence, they should be accepted as work colleagues. With modern technology those pictures and the video may still be getting circulated through the army. Sex is normally where people are at their most vulnerable what has been done is sexual abuse and stripping of dignity.
All the blocks who did this should have it tattooed on the chest. How would you feel if it was your sister? I bet you’d be out to kill, it is no wonder why they’re names are confidential. I swear if I found out who they were they’d be in for a world of hurt. This type of behaviour is bad for the defence force and for all men. It reinforces stereotypes that men are Dciks, all they do is think about sex and cannot be trusted. Is this something that should be reinforced?
Don’t let your daughters leave the house without you because they may be drugged and raped, don’t let your kids walk to school as they may be attacked by a seedy old man. Women can’t leave work on their own or walk anywhere at night for fear of the big bad MAN. Come on guys help yourselves don’t disrespect, don’t bring down women, don’t strip us of dignity.

STOP ATTACKING US.

#52 “Really, the woman isn’t the focus of the story here.”

Um – yes she is. She should be the entire focus of the story. Her life will never be the same again. This is not just an academic discussion of a 50 page document, this is a person who has been badly wronged.

Both by the worm who pretended to like her then slept with her for a prank, for his mates who had a gay old time watching, by the ADFA high-ups who failed to realise how damaging and wrong this is, and by the ACT police who apparently can’t find a crime unless they feel like it – and even by our laws which don’t seem to specify that this is a crime.

Well, for a start ADFA (and the ADF) need to go back to taws and realise that if you are running a mixed sex university – which is what the College is – then, der, people are going to have sex, and maybe even form relationships. Once upon a time it was the other way around, but I digress.

Banning this is just futile – they need to develop policies which recognise reality and avoid losing good people of either gender just because they have sex or even fall in love. Most people meet their partners through study or work, so why would the ADF be any different?

Most large organisations have policies about relationships between their members, and seem to manage, so why not the ADF? As for all the ‘covering one’s back in the line of fire’ crap, well, the cops, and indeed organisations where the line of fire is less physical, have policies to prevent conflicts of interest in that situation. It is not rocket science, except, it seems, to the dinosaurs in the ADF. They really need to stop running their organisation like a 1950s same sex boarding school and grow up.

Since the facts of the case under discussion are not yet verified, my only comment is that if this guy videoed them having sex without her permission (whether he transmitted it or not), he should be chucked out on his ear. She should also be disciplined for any rules she broke. But these things will keep happening until the ADF gets real about what happens when a university or a workplace has not only closeted homosexuals, but very out there heterosexuals, mixing together. Just like in the real world.

Sleaz274 said :

It was rhetorical…hence the joke about the bromide at the end…

Rhetorical questioning fail, and also a more general rhetoric failure.

Back on topic, she knew the policy, she didn’t expect to get caught out. She certainly didn’t expect to be caught out in such a method, but I’m guessing the subsequent treatment were what pushed her into media contact.
If she wanted to stay (and if ADF were willing to\able to keep her), so be it. Otherwise, she’s young enough to go do other things and fade away back into societal obscurity.
Really, the woman isn’t the focus of the story here.

The potential sexual harassment and bullying on the other hand, and how it will be pursued for the perpetrating cadets (the other 46 pages of the document you’re still not reading) are matters for the ADF to resolve institutionally.
Defence can make their own determination into the conduct of the Officer cadets, but as far as I’m concerned, the issue of treatment of sexual harassment complaints, instutional handling and (maybe)eventual prosecution the harassment charge\s should be given a certain amount of airtime.
IE: Effective policy should be seen to be (rather than allegedly) enforced, and not merely have a written policy document to be waved about and given lip-service.

It was rhetorical…hence the joke about the bromide at the end, I apologise if my punctuation confused you.

I know of which you speak, the 3 month moratorium on “relationships or private intimate affairs” which is why we were separated in my first year by sex, service (2nd and 3rd year) and year level. This policy has since been changed by the higher ups into mixed divisions and mixed service right from the start and by anecdotal evidence cadets were shagging in the first week.

Once again pointing at a paragraph is not an argument, please articulate an opinion, I can use google searches and read PDFs myself. After reading it again I still can’t see its relevance to all this vitriol being poured against the lady involved nor the calls for her dismissal from the ADF.

I would suspect however that her previously high opinion of the services will be destroyed and she’ll be finding herself a new line of work anyway. It can be very lonely surrounded by uniforms.

Sleaz274 said :

Why not fix the policy seeing that it is obviously inappropriate and broken rather than try to “fix” the humans?

I’m sure Houston has a lot more to worry about than if cadets in private and behind closed doors have a relationship.

RTFDoco.
For clarity, B-8: Para34-35 should be a good place to start familiarising yourself with them, but at 50 pages its not a tough read.
Come back when you read them, since rapidly becoming clear you’ve got a strong opinion on it but either not read it, glanced through, or your CO failed in your briefs when you were in attendance.

But as with almost all policy, the issue isn’t just the written policy, its the on-the-ground enforcement by managers\commanders.
Its about time Defence caught up with at least 20th century attitudes on acceptable social behaviour, before we get too much further into the 21st.

“The way men talk about women in the army is horrible…”

Have you been to a pub lately? Or listened to tradies having their morning brew? Don’t think the Army is somehow magically different.

Chewy please put forward your argument why this young lady should be kicked out as well. It would be better than just your constant back pedalling now that more reasoned opinion has emerged away from the Today Tonight chattering crowd.

Skid maybe you should have presented some sort of counter argument 3 posts ago instead of just brandishing around the policy document like a metaphorical sword with which to lop off all their heads. Why not fix the policy seeing that it is obviously inappropriate and broken rather than try to “fix” the humans? The rumour is they tried that with bromide hahaha.

Two wars, civilian killings, dwindling recruitment and retention numbers, a huge budget blow out by billions, a broken procurement process and did I mention two unwinnable wars? I’m sure Houston has a lot more to worry about than if cadets in private and behind closed doors have a relationship.

Once again if anyone can articulate an argument why this young lady should be kicked out, as you all keep screaming for, then please go ahead. Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

EvanJames said :

Recruiting hormone-crazed kiddies and then being surprised that they don’t act like officers and gentlemen/ladies. huh.

I don’t see this as the issue, it doesn’t take a smart person to know that videoing someone having sex against their will and distributing it is fcuked up. Its betrayal, it reinforces an undesirable culture in the defence force. This type of sexual slander in the defence against females is disgusting and is a regular occurrence. You will be hard pressed to find a female in the defence who hasn’t been rumoured about in an undesirable sexual manor.

The way men talk about women in the army is horrible, they ridicule and joke about all they are women are good for is sex and baby’s. This is not all but is the majority. I hate to think what may have happened to other women without their knowledge.

twistie said :

I served in RAN & RAEME. I have knowledge of mil law through my service life. First I had problems of bastardry through my 12 months at HMAS Luewin a lot worse than this. No female recruits there but we slept in 4 berth cabins. It was mentioned when they built single room accomodation that there would be problems and now there are. At HMAS ceberas males accomodation was a long way from females. If you got caught in female rooms the sack. Same same with females. There are no laws on filming with or without consent under civillian law. Otherwise paparatzi would be out of work. Military is different. I think she should have gone to senior female officers, counciler, padre or member of parliment. Charges of fratenising, bringing in disrespect and other ADFA laws will apply probably bring discarges will follow. Mabye a holiday at Ingleburn correction centre (horrible place i visited there) There needs to be a different base to train little girles. Because like football the military is really a mens world. I know they have to encourage females into the forces. I knew that when the dod mixing sexes on bases and ships there would be problems the same as merchant ships. To stop this have bases ans ships for male & female.There will only be sexual equality when dragons or st kilda have a female front row or fullback

Ive worked a merchant ship with a female, one legged, black, first mate and mixed crew. The only problems where to do with American’s at sea and the islanders in port. They where mostly civilian trained. As long as you kept the crew off the piss then everyone got along equally. When the piss ran out two weeks from port the ship went to shit. Apart from the yanks, the only times that the crew split into groups, down racial or sexual lines, alcohol was involved.

Its no surprise that soldiers have strong views on race and sexuality issues. They have a culture of alcohol abuse that only encourages pointless conflict. Keep the women, chuck the booze.

I served in RAN & RAEME. I have knowledge of mil law through my service life. First I had problems of bastardry through my 12 months at HMAS Luewin a lot worse than this. No female recruits there but we slept in 4 berth cabins. It was mentioned when they built single room accomodation that there would be problems and now there are. At HMAS ceberas males accomodation was a long way from females. If you got caught in female rooms the sack. Same same with females. There are no laws on filming with or without consent under civillian law. Otherwise paparatzi would be out of work. Military is different. I think she should have gone to senior female officers, counciler, padre or member of parliment. Charges of fratenising, bringing in disrespect and other ADFA laws will apply probably bring discarges will follow. Mabye a holiday at Ingleburn correction centre (horrible place i visited there) There needs to be a different base to train little girles. Because like football the military is really a mens world. I know they have to encourage females into the forces. I knew that when the dod mixing sexes on bases and ships there would be problems the same as merchant ships. To stop this have bases ans ships for male & female.There will only be sexual equality when dragons or st kilda have a female front row or fullback

One of the likely readers of this forum I used to know well when he was at ANU, living in ressies. He is now a VERY senior ACT public servant. I was something of a “protected little friend” to this man’s ANU circle, being three years younger. I was present when these fine upstanding chaps were boasting amongst themselves about a recent conquest. Startlingly similar to the ADFA case in a long-pre-internet world. By prior arrangement, ******* seduced a girl they all mocked as “ugly” in his room on the ground floor of one of the ANU student halls. Five of his friends watched the “action” through his window. One of those five watchers is a prominent, senior national union figure in NSW. So don’t anyone think this phenomenon is a Defence thing. Or a recent development among young men. I have never known the “ugly girl”‘s identity. I hope she never found out.

I appreciate that Johnboy,
but the men can only be kicked out even though they probably deserve more.

Sleaz274 said :

Then there would be no Defence Force…

I don’t see the point of your argument. I really hate the Canberra answer of linking to a policy document and saying “so there” as though it somehow proves an argument. It’s a piece of paper, written by a bunch of ASO 6s.

The policy is impossible to enforce in an institute at ADFA which is readily exampled by the entire staffing structure from Commandant down ignoring it and bending such a blunt instrument to deal with the every day intricacies of cadet and Academy life. As I said the policy is designed as an umbrella for all members on all bases, very few bases however are the 24/7 home for 700+ 17-24 year olds…
there would be no serving captains / majors / lieutenants left if it was rigorously applied.

Few points. I don’t remember ever saying that policy was my entire argument, but it would help if people read the policy they want to claim an opinion on.
Uninformed debate is boring to read.

I have helped develop and implement policy, but don’t ever expect 100% compliance,w live in the real world. Hours managers and leaders occupy the space between the policy word and the policy intent.
If you try to enforce every part of every law and regulation, as you say, nobody gets anything done, our we lose an entire intake year at ADFA.
I don’t intend to debate the policy, merely introduced it for showing the rope by which those Cadets will be hung.

But if they want to wear the uniform and trade on the professional reputation of the ADF, the price of that is being held to the Defence professional standards.
However, I’d suggest Angus Houston wouldn’t sign off a policy he thought wasn’t with the paper it was written on, and as a former cadet, you should bear that in mind, even if you think it was written by an ASO 6.

Again, if cadets want to be playing grownup games, they should learn the grownup rules, our go back to the children’s table.

chewy14 said :

I think one of the most important things that I want in a member of the defence force is the ability to follow rules and orders. Deciding that you don’t like the rules and so you’ll do whatever you want just doesn’t cut it.
She should be booted along with the males who are deadshits of the highest order.

If everybody in the ADF always followed rules you’d lose a lot of the history that we love. ANZACs were famous for flouting the rules (only saluting when they felt like it, etc.) and that’s in part where our love of our military comes from (yea, it’s a generalisation but I can live with it).

I’ve been posted to a few bases when in the military and ran foul of the fraternisation rule myself when in the Navy. The docky-coppers pinged me for holding hands with my girlfriend (who was also a serving member) on a Friday night while walking back from the on-base cinema. We learned to live with it by going to each other rooms (OK, up to certain hours) or hanging out at the junior sailors bar. Places where if you’re out of sight of those paid to enforce rules you’re pretty much OK.

Where these idiots have let themselves, their families and the ADF down is in engaging in behavior that is disgusting in any walk of life, not just the ADF. The girl placed her trust in someone and he let her down my sharing what is meant to be intimate moment with others without her consent. That said, I’m uncomfortable with the idea of having their careers ended before they even start. We all make bad decision at that age that we can live to regret. I’d hope that other methods can be found to punish these kids, perhaps back-classing them, moving them on to their relevant forces non-academic officer training (e.g RMC) or even telling them they can come back in 1-2 years.

As for the girl, there is no way she should be vilified for talking to the media, particularly if those in positions in responsibility failed to take appropriate action. I find it strange that people cry out for the protection of whistle-blowers where it comes to foreign policy issues, public health etc. yet when a young girl finds she has no other option but to speak out about abuse, people call for her to be sacked.

most militaries throughout history have used a graded scale of punishment chewy, the girl’s offence was a minor one, the others less so IMHO.

Sleaze,
are you really going for the “who cares about the rules, they’re unenforceable” argument?
Really?
I think one of the most important things that I want in a member of the defence force is the ability to follow rules and orders. Deciding that you don’t like the rules and so you’ll do whatever you want just doesn’t cut it.
She should be booted along with the males who are deadshits of the highest order.

Then there would be no Defence Force…

I don’t see the point of your argument. I really hate the Canberra answer of linking to a policy document and saying “so there” as though it somehow proves an argument. It’s a piece of paper, written by a bunch of ASO 6s. You bore me and it’s a boring and pointless response.

The policy is impossible to enforce in an institute at ADFA which is readily exampled by the entire staffing structure from Commandant down ignoring it and bending such a blunt instrument to deal with the every day intricacies of cadet and Academy life. As I said the policy is designed as an umbrella for all members on all bases, very few bases however are the 24/7 home for 700+ 17-24 year olds…I’m just repeating myself now. If you don’t get it already this is not a policy debate.

I lived that so called policy for 4 years and can guarantee you there would be no serving captains / majors / lieutenants left if it was rigorously applied.

I say good on her for having the moral, personal and physical courage to stand up for herself in a particularly nasty situation where she is an innocent victim in an institution that has a very tough culture on standing alone. She is the type of officer with the strength they are trying to create and I really hope she gets the support from the institution before it turns into an ass covering exercise of epic proportions.

If someone can mount a reasonable argument for her dismissal then please put it down. The other gentlemen should be asked to leave the ADF their behaviour is disgusting and is exactly the type of culture that needs fervently stamping out of the ADF as most members will attest.

Sleaz274 said :

The problem with your policy document Skid is the distinction between ADFA as a workplace, training institution and home to 700 odd 17-24 year olds and lets not forget the staff relationships, academic and military, that sometimes happen.

1) Officer Cadets are explicitly covered by that policy, the only Cadets not covered by it are the ANCs, AACs, and AAFCs.
(Pg3: 4.This Instruction does not apply to Australian Navy Cadets, Australian Army Cadets and Australian Air Force Cadets and non-ADF cadet staff and instructors.
Pg12: Trainee means any ADF member undergoing training at an ADF school or training establishment.)

2) If you don’t agree with or aren’t willing to abide Defence policy, you don’t join.

I think some people are misreading charges which is understandable coming from a civilian perspective. You can be “charged” under military “law” for failure to obey standing orders or a lawful order given by an officer and in the case of ADFA also NCOs (non commissioned officers) who while a cadet are considered superior officers.

For instance I was charged in 2nd year for being 7 minutes late to a check parade (a check parade is turning up in a selected uniform and being inspected by the duty officer and is used as a minor punishment for all sorts of things, like an inspection failure for example). I had to go through a “court” process where i was represented by another cadet and prosecuted by my NCO. Because ADFA is a training institution and cadets are expected to learn the charge process because one day they will be charging troops of their own (for wearing thongs in the mess for example) it is expected at some point in your 3-4 years at ADFA that you will be charged for some transgression at some point. I also defended as a senior cadet numerous first years on charges for anything such as missing lights out (on phone to their parents), missing sports training, missing lectures, wrong uniform on parade etc etc..

If I was still a senior cadet at ADFA I’d be making those young gentlemen very very uncomfortable and no doubt they will be given notice to show cause (ie write and present a full paper as to why you shouldn’t be automatically discharged) they will then be discharged.

The girl seems to be receiving all the attention however and it puzzles me slightly why people would be calling for her dismissal as well.

90% of the people who turned up at ADFA in 1st year with a girlfriend or boyfriend did not have them by mid year break. There are 7 guys to every 1 girl and by 3rd year I believe only about 5 girls in my whole year were single and not dating other ADFA guys. 3 or 4 of my best mates are now married to their ADFA girlfriends.

The problem with your policy document Skid is the distinction between ADFA as a workplace, training institution and home to 700 odd 17-24 year olds and lets not forget the staff relationships, academic and military, that sometimes happen. Simply waving around a piece of paper written at Russell for ADF personnel on bases yelling “kick em all out here’s the rules” is naive stupid and very dangerous.

It’s a pity that this couldn’t have been dealt with internally by the staff involved (some of whom were cadets when I was there and indeed good friends) and the girl felt that her chain of command had let her down in a very serious matter. I hope the counsellors and pyschs are as good now as when I was there.

Interesting reading Skid,

I say kick them all out.
They all know what the rules are and they all broke them.
No sympathy from me.

Defence Instruction (General) Personnel 35-3: Management and reporting of unacceptable behaviour

Current (2009 amended) version, the policy relevant to both the fraternisation between ADF trainees, and any allegations of subsequent direct or sexual harassment against ADF members or ADF trainees.

47 pages, I suggest commenters read them.

georgesgenitals12:17 pm 07 Apr 11

Discharge the lot of them. If the girl was up on prior charges, and has done this as well, clearly she isn’t making the grade.

As for the fellas, they need to be taught a lesson.

You can’t expect to have high standards if you let this sort of thing slide.

WhatsTheGoYo said :

Uh, Hello?!
ADFA stands for AUSTRALIAN DEFENCE FORCE ACADEMY.
Teenagers apply and are selected from all over Australia to go their and basically do their years of UNI in Canberra at the Academy while learning how to be an officer.
It’s a privilege to be selected and you only get one chance.
It’s the Defence Force, they have strict rules. You don’t follow these rules… you suffer the consequences.

What puzzles me is why this issue even occurred in the first place?
They know they’re not supposed to fraternise and you can’t say they didn’t know… they get brief after brief about what they can and can’t do, she even admitted that the two of them agreed to have an ‘Under the Radar’ physical relationship.

They are their to study and become representatives of the Australian Defence Force, WTF are they doing screwing around like this in their first year?
Im not trying to be the fun police, but seriously… there are limits and clearly both parties decided they were going to push the limits.

Scenario#1 – The girl would go to his room… fool around and without being caught go back to her room and before she got there he had told his mates about the arrangements, they were like “oh yes, this guys a legend” egged him on a little and persuaded him to set up a webcam.

Scenario#2 – She came to visit him and interrupted a webcam session with his mates in the other room (unlikely but possible) she therefore would know about the webcam, she thinks she’s a top dog for continuing and they have sex, she leaves. Next day she realise’s that she’s messed up and turns it around on the guy saying that he set her up.

Scenario#3 – The guy is a sick twisted freak and decided to ruin his chances with his career and women, told his mates, got them watching and made a bug situation out of it.

Either way, they’re all in the wrong and they don’t deserve to be at ADFA or the ADF in general.
If they cant follow the rules, who can trust them?

Anyway, I have one message for them… Good luck finding a new job… You scum’s are going to need it!!

I bet their parents are proud.

I hear what you are trying to say …………….but focus on the girl. Sure, its the ADFA and rules are rules. But this particular rule (fratenization) is doomed to fail – and a lot of them are being set up to fail if it continues to exist.

Nobody can say that this is the first and last time it will happen – and I am sure that a few people (including staff and former students) are in the category of ‘there for the sake of God go us’! They guys involved – no negotiation or disussion – get rid of them NOW!

But the problem is destined to stay with the ADF as long as it doesn’t address this particular issue – young males and females, locked away together for nearly two years on an intense course – are going to play these games occassionally. ADFA need to start looking at some options rather than simply executing them on the Parade ground. Look at private counselling, education, private mentoring (would be a great idea for these young officers to have a senior mentor whether on the grounds or simply be able to contact).

There is a real chance here for the ADFA to make a change for the better for these young officers – and for future generations. And as for the continuing bullying and harassment of anyone – that’s when I am all for the Parade Ground executions!!!

Pommy bastard8:40 am 07 Apr 11

So, we learn today that she was asked to apologise for going pubuic, and taht was withdrawn when they realised how shitty it woudl make ADFA look, that the other charges were brought to the fore AFTER her allegations were made as a way of intimidating her, and that she has been verbally abused and her room filled with shaving foam by her “fellow officers”.

ADFA looking more bad by the moment…

WhatsTheGoYo1:05 am 07 Apr 11

Uh, Hello?!
ADFA stands for AUSTRALIAN DEFENCE FORCE ACADEMY.
Teenagers apply and are selected from all over Australia to go their and basically do their years of UNI in Canberra at the Academy while learning how to be an officer.
It’s a privilege to be selected and you only get one chance.
It’s the Defence Force, they have strict rules. You don’t follow these rules… you suffer the consequences.

What puzzles me is why this issue even occurred in the first place?
They know they’re not supposed to fraternise and you can’t say they didn’t know… they get brief after brief about what they can and can’t do, she even admitted that the two of them agreed to have an ‘Under the Radar’ physical relationship.

They are their to study and become representatives of the Australian Defence Force, WTF are they doing screwing around like this in their first year?
Im not trying to be the fun police, but seriously… there are limits and clearly both parties decided they were going to push the limits.

Scenario#1 – The girl would go to his room… fool around and without being caught go back to her room and before she got there he had told his mates about the arrangements, they were like “oh yes, this guys a legend” egged him on a little and persuaded him to set up a webcam.

Scenario#2 – She came to visit him and interrupted a webcam session with his mates in the other room (unlikely but possible) she therefore would know about the webcam, she thinks she’s a top dog for continuing and they have sex, she leaves. Next day she realise’s that she’s messed up and turns it around on the guy saying that he set her up.

Scenario#3 – The guy is a sick twisted freak and decided to ruin his chances with his career and women, told his mates, got them watching and made a bug situation out of it.

Either way, they’re all in the wrong and they don’t deserve to be at ADFA or the ADF in general.
If they cant follow the rules, who can trust them?

Anyway, I have one message for them… Good luck finding a new job… You scum’s are going to need it!!

I bet their parents are proud.

They are probably to young to recall the first movie of Mash and how hot lips got her moniker.
I’m sure those responsible got away with it. How times have changed.

If you put young people together they will almost certainly have sex with each other. Trying to prevent it is like trying to hold back the tide.

But if it is true that she was willing to share her body with some bloke, and he betrayed that trust and intimacy for a bit of sniggering and props from his slimeball mates, then he and the other scum involved deserve nothing but a horsewhipping and immediate return to the dole queue.

Assuming that it happened at all, the only thing I wonder about is whether he set up the filming, or whether the two of them were both filmed unwittingly by the perverts in the other room.

RegGrundies said :

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/06/3184126.htm

So a day before she is due to face a disiplinary hearing she comes out via the media with the video sex claims

Whole story sounds a bit dodgy now in light of this

Doubt there is even a video and she made the whole thing up to try and cover her ass … is she a St. Kilda AFL fan by any chance?

So you are suggesting she made up a story about this video and then went to the media earning the wrath of her fellow cadets because she was facing a hearing on some unrelated charges today? And then she pleads guilty to the charges? That makes no sense to me unless you are suggesting this was all part of her devious plan to have the Defence Minister go on national TV and get her off the charges she just plead guilty to?

she got brought up on charges.

blame the victim?

RegGrundies said :

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/06/3184126.htm

So a day before she is due to face a disiplinary hearing she comes out via the media with the video sex claims

Whole story sounds a bit dodgy now in light of this

Doubt there is even a video and she made the whole thing up to try and cover her ass … is she a St. Kilda AFL fan by any chance?

Yeah right!!

To get off a slap on the wrist for breaking a curfew she risks her entire career by going on TV?? I don’t think so.

I think she’s gone to the media as she was afraid they’d get away with it.

And by going to Channel 10 I think counts out that she’s after any money as ACA and TT would pay through the roof for this kind of story.

ABC on line heading “Smith reads riot act after webcam sex claims”

What hope does the girl have.

There are no winners here.

Her ADF career’s over before it’s begun.

And the disgraceful grub she was naive enough to trust should be exited forthwith. Along with his shadowy mates in the next room. What an appalling lack of moral fibre.

I think someone already discharged here.

RegGrundies said :

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/06/3184126.htm

So a day before she is due to face a disiplinary hearing she comes out via the media with the video sex claims

Whole story sounds a bit dodgy now in light of this

Doubt there is even a video and she made the whole thing up to try and cover her ass … is she a St. Kilda AFL fan by any chance?

+1

Any dogs involved? The footballers set the bar pretty high.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/06/3184126.htm

So a day before she is due to face a disiplinary hearing she comes out via the media with the video sex claims

Whole story sounds a bit dodgy now in light of this

Doubt there is even a video and she made the whole thing up to try and cover her ass … is she a St. Kilda AFL fan by any chance?

Felix the Cat said :

johnboy said :

I’d say she’s in bigger trouble for going to the media.

The news report on the radio I heard earlier said something along the lines of she reported the incident to ADFA superiors who didn’t deem it worthy enough for investigation so I guess she didn’t have much choice then to go to the media (if as someone else posted it isn’t actually an unlawful offence to film someone having sex without their consent).

I’m not casting judgment on her going to the media. But out of the public eye others will.

hopefully all the idiot lads (and possibly ladies) involved who can’t hide the evidence can be booted out

A skype call is unlikely to leave any usable evidence behind: There are ways to record a skype video call, but they’re not built into Skype.

Presumably if they’re smart enough to figure out how to record skype calls, they’re smart enough to hide it.

Felix the Cat3:34 pm 06 Apr 11

johnboy said :

I’d say she’s in bigger trouble for going to the media.

The news report on the radio I heard earlier said something along the lines of she reported the incident to ADFA superiors who didn’t deem it worthy enough for investigation so I guess she didn’t have much choice then to go to the media (if as someone else posted it isn’t actually an unlawful offence to film someone having sex without their consent).

Skidbladnir said :

…hopefully all the idiot lads (and possibly ladies) involved who can’t hide the evidence can be booted out … as a warning to current and future cadets that if they’re unable to conduct themselves in a manner becoming an officer they should at least make sure they don’t get caught.

Don’t get caught breaching conduct reqs, and destroy any lingering evidence?
What a low standard and terrible professional expectation you’ve set there.

And yet they’re failing even to make it to that level.

…hopefully all the idiot lads (and possibly ladies) involved who can’t hide the evidence can be booted out … as a warning to current and future cadets that if they’re unable to conduct themselves in a manner becoming an officer they should at least make sure they don’t get caught.

Don’t get caught breaching conduct reqs, and destroy any lingering evidence?
What a low standard and terrible professional expectation you’ve set there.

One of the bigger issues that will come out of this is the comparability between civilian and military law. Realisticly, MIL LAW is groundless and has no real power to enforce anything other than what is inferred to its members and how they percieve it. She will win in the sense that real law has to do something about it.

Boys and girls in a confined ‘space’, testostorone running rampant, youngs girls away from home for possibly the first time – hell, who would think this would happen……….??????

Agree with the threads that the media is her big mistake – and all the boys involved should be discharged – no negotiation. Rules of the Academy aside, you don’t do that to anyone what they did to her.

Will something similar happen again – damn right it will! Doesn’t matter if its the ADF Academy, the AFP Academy, or any other such ‘academy’ where boys and girls get together. All the agencies simply have to deal with it – know that it will happen and plan accordingly.

And to say, as the ADF have, that they can’t ‘fratenize’ is just insane – they need to get more with the real program I think.

johnboy said :

I’d say she’s in bigger trouble for going to the media.

I’d say she’s smart for going to the media to make a quick buck after realising that this event will likely end her time at ADFA!

Mistake 1: she slept with someone from RMC
Mistake 2: they were immature first years
Mistake 3: she went to the media.

I’m not saying that what happened to her wasn’t wrong, but when you get a large gender imbalance, and lots of “lads”, this sort of stuff is will happen.

johnboy said :

I’d say she’s in bigger trouble for going to the media.

+ True dat! Sadly, even though she is the victim here she will become a target and the perpetrator will probably get a slap on the wrist and a posting to a petroleum supply company near Myambat.

The most shocking thing about this is that the AFP claim there is no law against filming someone having sex. Even if the filming is done without their knowledge.

If this is true, we need a new law asap.

I’d say she’s in bigger trouble for going to the media.

Captain RAAF10:18 am 06 Apr 11

fraternisation

Good bye career in the ADF.

For frat? Ha, yeah right!

I guess American Pie wasn’t an educational documentary after all…

Just keep kicking out the ones dumb enough to get caught.

Recruiting hormone-crazed kiddies and then being surprised that they don’t act like officers and gentlemen/ladies. huh.

Daily Digest

Want the best Canberra news delivered daily? Every day we package the most popular Riotact stories and send them straight to your inbox. Sign-up now for trusted local news that will never be behind a paywall.

By submitting your email address you are agreeing to Region Group's terms and conditions and privacy policy.