Teacher protest 2011 style

Bump. Two more days of industrial action planned for November 7th & 8th.

Get set for more half-arsed union spin about how teachers are striking for the benefit of students.

Please Elaborate on Lanyon. My kids go there, and apart from the crapy Head Mistress, I find the school teachings and teachers to be great

Ten years ago 🙂

Thumper said :

Interestingly, in their attempt to get pay parity the teachers neglect to tell anyone that in the NSW system you could be posted anywhere from Bombala to Ballina and anywhere in between, whereas in Canberra the worst you can get is, well Lanyon.

I also note that no-one has actually mentioned how much an ACT teacher gets paid. Believe me, it’s not that bad, really. And where is this money going to come from?

Having said that, I think schools should be employing more teachers to lighten the load on the current teachers.

Incidentally, I used to teach at Lanyon.

Please Elaborate on Lanyon. My kids go there, and apart from the crapy Head Mistress, I find the school teachings and teachers to be great.

Ben_Dover said :

Jim Jones said :

You don’t think that a strike that doesn’t effect the community in any way might be a bit … pointless?

There are five distinct words here. When “affect” is accented on the final syllable (a-FECT), it is usually a verb meaning “have an influence on”: “The million-dollar donation from the industrialist did not affect my vote against the Clean Air Act.”

Occasionally a pretentious person is said to affect an artificial air of sophistication. Speaking with a borrowed French accent or ostentatiously wearing a large diamond ear stud might be an affectation. In this sort of context, “affect” means “to make a display of or deliberately cultivate.”

Another unusual meaning is indicated when the word is accented on the first syllable (AFF-ect), meaning “emotion.” In this case the word is used mostly by psychiatrists and social scientists—people who normally know how to spell it.

The real problem arises when people confuse the first spelling with the second: “effect.” This too can be two different words. The more common one is a noun: “When I left the stove on, the effect was that the house filled with smoke.” When you affect a situation, you have an effect on it.

Less common is a verb meaning “to create”: “I’m trying to effect a change in the way we purchase widgets.” No wonder people are confused. Note especially that the proper expression is not “take affect” but “take effect”—become effective. Hey, nobody ever said English was logical: just memorize it and get on with your life.

The stuff in your purse? Your personal effects.

The stuff in movies? Sound effects and special effects.

“Affective” is a technical term having to do with emotions; the vast majority of the time the spelling you want is “effective.”

Get a life.

Frug said :

Payrates are here.

http://www.det.act.gov.au/employment/payrates

To save some hassle – $48219 for a first year out. $78837 for the highest paid classroom teacher. A middle band APS6 in DEEWR makes about the same as the highest paid teacher. Hope that helps.

The current rates are on the right hand side, so a first year teacher makes more than that.

Also, the middle band APS6 in DEEWR doesn’t get twelve weeks of paid leave per year.

Payrates are here.

http://www.det.act.gov.au/employment/payrates

To save some hassle – $48219 for a first year out. $78837 for the highest paid classroom teacher. A middle band APS6 in DEEWR makes about the same as the highest paid teacher. Hope that helps.

johnboy said :

Was there a push for parity at times NSW was earning less?

Actually, parity (particularly with NSW) has consistently been “a push” in the 10 years I have been in the education sector… it was only in the last two EBAs that we dropped significantly down; and during the previous negotiations (and due to the GFC), the ACT Government had said that it would be rectified this time around, should they be in a better financial position.

Interestingly, in their attempt to get pay parity the teachers neglect to tell anyone that in the NSW system you could be posted anywhere from Bombala to Ballina and anywhere in between, whereas in Canberra the worst you can get is, well Lanyon.

I also note that no-one has actually mentioned how much an ACT teacher gets paid. Believe me, it’s not that bad, really. And where is this money going to come from?

Having said that, I think schools should be employing more teachers to lighten the load on the current teachers.

Incidentally, I used to teach at Lanyon.

What’s that? People hate teachers striking because ‘you said so’?

Well, that’s good enough for me.

Wow lookout! An online poll from the Canberra Times to back up your poorly thought out argument! The very same Canberra Times that you berate for not being accurate, unbiased, or intelligent when they don’t support your argument.

I’m sure you’ll forgive me for not putting much stock in their online poll.

Oh, and look! A survey paid for by the teachers union! A survey of 400 people, whose questions, findings, and population sample are nowhere to be found online. Isn’t that something? In fact, the only evidence of the magical number of 88% also comes from the Canberra Times!

Well, that’s it. You’ve convinced us all with your airtight evidence, copied and pasted again, which had already been addressed elsewhere.

A poll of 400 Canberrans commissioned by the AEU and conducted by indpendent research company, Kudos Research, found 88% of Canberrans support pay parity with NSW (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/teachers-set-to-flood-citys-heart-in-protest/2304821.aspx).

I’d be interested to see what the question asked in this survey was.
I’m thinking it would have been along the lines of:
“ACT teachers get paid less than NSW teachers, do you think they should be paid equally?”
rather than,
“ACT teachers get paid more than (insert state here) teachers, do you think that ACT teachers should be paid even more?”

As for a Canberra Times online poll, LOL.

Teachers, go nuts – strike all you want.
I just doubt that the local community will support you all that much. Especially if it starts affecting local parents. We all know how high the self interest is in this town.

Ben_Dover said :

Jim Jones said :

[I never stated that my anecdotal evidence was indicative of general public opinion – in fact, I stated baldly that “that probably says as much about the people I mix with as it does about public perception of the strike”. (Which was answered by the usual right-wingers with howls of derision for anyone who would dare support pay parity for ACT teachers).

[huge amounts of sarcasm]It’s really bad when people put words into your mouth isn’t it Jim? [/huge amounts of sarcasm]

It’s all because I’m a secret agent of the PC-driven, left-wing, ‘equality industry’. We’re out to ruin the world, don’t you know?

Jim Jones said :

[I never stated that my anecdotal evidence was indicative of general public opinion – in fact, I stated baldly that “that probably says as much about the people I mix with as it does about public perception of the strike”. (Which was answered by the usual right-wingers with howls of derision for anyone who would dare support pay parity for ACT teachers).

[huge amounts of sarcasm]It’s really bad when people put words into your mouth isn’t it Jim? [/huge amounts of sarcasm]

Oh please please pleeeease say something about the education sector being run by evil, lefty, feminazi, PC, gay agenda blah blah blah whatever.

It would just make everything so perfect.

Mysteryman said :

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

I don’t know who you hang around with, Jim, but I’d wager they aren’t totally informed on the issue – especially if you’re asking the questions.

Parents and teachers who think that ACT teachers should be paid in parity with their colleagues in other states are ill-informed, are they?

Teachers are hardly going to have a fair an impartial perspective on the matter.

As for parents, I doubt very much that many of them even know what a teacher in NSW or the ACT earns or how many hours a week they work. So yes, I’m betting that most of them are ill-informed.

So teachers and parents are ill-informed then. Parents know too little about teachers, and teachers apparently know too much. Presumably we should be looking to disinterested teenagers or something for advice on education policy.

I’m suggesting that people should be presented with the whole picture (a concept I know you struggle to understand) before we place any importance on their conclusions. I doubt you gave them any information regarding current rates of pay before you conducted your iron-clad and apparently statistically sound research.

I’m also suggesting that if the people you associate with are anything like yourself, we probably shouldn’t listen to them at all.

Let me get this straight – when discussing levels of public support for a strike by teachers in the ACT, we should disregard the actual levels of public support by the actual people of the ACT … because they’re all misinformed?

Did I get that right?

Not really even close. Pay attention, now, and maybe you’ll get it…

You made a comment about asking your friends if teachers should be paid at the NSW rate, and them all agreeing with you. You also implied foolishly that your anecdotal evidence must be indicative of the general opinion of the entire ACT public.

I suggested that your friends probably don’t even know the details of the situation (and that you would most certainly neglect to get them enough information to make an INFORMED decision), and as such should not be considered:

a) an accurate representation of the ACT public, or
b) an accurate representation of an informed group of people.

I also implied that the teachers (which I don’t believe you even spoke to, despite what you say) that you referred to will say whatever they think will result in more money, and as such shouldn’t be considered a fair representation of the ACT public’s stance on the issue.

Did I dumb that down enough for you? Would you like me to draw you a picture? I can link to some dictionary definitions of the word “informed”, if you’d like.

Epic fail dude.

I never stated that my anecdotal evidence was indicative of general public opinion – in fact, I stated baldly that “that probably says as much about the people I mix with as it does about public perception of the strike”. (Which was answered by the usual right-wingers with howls of derision for anyone who would dare support pay parity for ACT teachers).

If you want info on the public opinion towards the action why not look at Tom Greenwell’s post in a related thread:

“In a Canberra Times online poll (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/polls/) over 52.6% of respondents agree that “Yes they should strike. ACT teachers deserve pay parity with NSW.
(52.6%)”. A further 22.6% think that “ACT teachers deserve equal pay, but they shouldn’t take strike action that might disadvantage students.”.

A poll of 400 Canberrans commissioned by the AEU and conducted by indpendent research company, Kudos Research, found 88% of Canberrans support pay parity with NSW (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/teachers-set-to-flood-citys-heart-in-protest/2304821.aspx).

The ACT P&C has repeatedly expressed support for the teachers’ campaign, including at yesterday’s rally.”

But don’t let that influence your opinion. Obviously you know best.

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

I don’t know who you hang around with, Jim, but I’d wager they aren’t totally informed on the issue – especially if you’re asking the questions.

Parents and teachers who think that ACT teachers should be paid in parity with their colleagues in other states are ill-informed, are they?

Teachers are hardly going to have a fair an impartial perspective on the matter.

As for parents, I doubt very much that many of them even know what a teacher in NSW or the ACT earns or how many hours a week they work. So yes, I’m betting that most of them are ill-informed.

So teachers and parents are ill-informed then. Parents know too little about teachers, and teachers apparently know too much. Presumably we should be looking to disinterested teenagers or something for advice on education policy.

I’m suggesting that people should be presented with the whole picture (a concept I know you struggle to understand) before we place any importance on their conclusions. I doubt you gave them any information regarding current rates of pay before you conducted your iron-clad and apparently statistically sound research.

I’m also suggesting that if the people you associate with are anything like yourself, we probably shouldn’t listen to them at all.

Let me get this straight – when discussing levels of public support for a strike by teachers in the ACT, we should disregard the actual levels of public support by the actual people of the ACT … because they’re all misinformed?

Did I get that right?

Not really even close. Pay attention, now, and maybe you’ll get it…

You made a comment about asking your friends if teachers should be paid at the NSW rate, and them all agreeing with you. You also implied foolishly that your anecdotal evidence must be indicative of the general opinion of the entire ACT public.

I suggested that your friends probably don’t even know the details of the situation (and that you would most certainly neglect to get them enough information to make an INFORMED decision), and as such should not be considered:

a) an accurate representation of the ACT public, or
b) an accurate representation of an informed group of people.

I also implied that the teachers (which I don’t believe you even spoke to, despite what you say) that you referred to will say whatever they think will result in more money, and as such shouldn’t be considered a fair representation of the ACT public’s stance on the issue.

Did I dumb that down enough for you? Would you like me to draw you a picture? I can link to some dictionary definitions of the word “informed”, if you’d like.

Mysteryman said :

I’m also suggesting that if the people you associate with are anything like yourself, we probably shouldn’t listen to them at all.

+1

Mysteryman said :

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

I don’t know who you hang around with, Jim, but I’d wager they aren’t totally informed on the issue – especially if you’re asking the questions.

Parents and teachers who think that ACT teachers should be paid in parity with their colleagues in other states are ill-informed, are they?

Teachers are hardly going to have a fair an impartial perspective on the matter.

As for parents, I doubt very much that many of them even know what a teacher in NSW or the ACT earns or how many hours a week they work. So yes, I’m betting that most of them are ill-informed.

So teachers and parents are ill-informed then. Parents know too little about teachers, and teachers apparently know too much. Presumably we should be looking to disinterested teenagers or something for advice on education policy.

I’m suggesting that people should be presented with the whole picture (a concept I know you struggle to understand) before we place any importance on their conclusions. I doubt you gave them any information regarding current rates of pay before you conducted your iron-clad and apparently statistically sound research.

I’m also suggesting that if the people you associate with are anything like yourself, we probably shouldn’t listen to them at all.

Let me get this straight – when discussing levels of public support for a strike by teachers in the ACT, we should disregard the actual levels of public support by the actual people of the ACT … because they’re all misinformed?

Did I get that right?

johnboy said :

I can’t help but think pay parity has not been an issue in the last 11 years we’ve been watching this space.

Was there a push for parity at times NSW was earning less?

Of course there wasn’t. There isn’t a push for parity with the states that currently pay less, either.

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

I don’t know who you hang around with, Jim, but I’d wager they aren’t totally informed on the issue – especially if you’re asking the questions.

Parents and teachers who think that ACT teachers should be paid in parity with their colleagues in other states are ill-informed, are they?

Teachers are hardly going to have a fair an impartial perspective on the matter.

As for parents, I doubt very much that many of them even know what a teacher in NSW or the ACT earns or how many hours a week they work. So yes, I’m betting that most of them are ill-informed.

So teachers and parents are ill-informed then. Parents know too little about teachers, and teachers apparently know too much. Presumably we should be looking to disinterested teenagers or something for advice on education policy.

I’m suggesting that people should be presented with the whole picture (a concept I know you struggle to understand) before we place any importance on their conclusions. I doubt you gave them any information regarding current rates of pay before you conducted your iron-clad and apparently statistically sound research.

I’m also suggesting that if the people you associate with are anything like yourself, we probably shouldn’t listen to them at all.