The ACT is paying a huge price for a decade of deficits

Far easier for the politicians to just promise all the shiny things in the world, than to fundamentally suggest unpopular suggestions. That and the bizarre fact most think that cancelling the future stages of the tram, which are currently unbudgeted for and therefore not effectively contributing to the current mess, will somehow solve the problem.

It still is ironic said Chief Minister, and said executive, that are so very vocal about it, were fundamentally key contributors to the issues being faced now. The budget holes that are enormous today were there under their watch as well.

@JS9
“… said Chief Minister, and said executive … were fundamentally key contributors to the issues being faced now.”
Are you sure, JS9? In the article where ‘an ex-Labor Chief minister and also an ex-finance executive are calling it out’ it states:
“Net debt has ballooned since Mr Barr became Treasurer from a negative $473 million to a forecast of $12.4 billion.”

Do you have facts to dispute that stat?

Lets be clear here JS. I’m not saying it hasn’t got far worse under the current administration.

But the fundamental issues with the ACT Budget position’s sustainability were absolutely there under the Messrs you refer to. They simply ignored the problem and did nothing to fix it – because they knew they’d be long gone before it ballooned into the issue it is now.

Not for one second suggesting the current lot have done a good job – that is clearly not the case. But the complete lack of hubris on the part of those in question should equally not be forgotten. They could have at least attempted to address some of the key elements of the problem in the bud, at a time when it was manageable. Yet they did very, very little.

@Incidental Tourist
For those who have disquiet about who and what are lurking in the shadows behind Ms Lee, there is a third alternative – minority government.

I think it’s fair to say that a substantial number of Canberrans don’t want another 4 years of a dysfunctional Labor/Greens government- yet they don’t necessarily see the other major party as a good option.

Perhaps it’s worth giving independents a go at having the balance of power and delivering on their “holding the government to account” platform?

Doesn’t matter who one votes for, we are going to get reckless spending sadly. The current opposition think the $2b they won’t spend on the tram is just money they can waste on other pet projects instead – when fundamentally, that $2b doesn’t exist without raising of debt.

A genuine opposition with a different plan would have put 90% of the effort into finding ways to reduce the unsustainability of current expenditure, not solely say ‘we’ll blow the money in other ways instead’.

Doesn’t matter who we vote for, no one has any plan at all to treat the fundamental causes of the deficit issue…..

@JustSaying – I wish we had strong independent force but we don’t. We don’t even have a single independent MLA who was previously elected let alone who can beat Barr/Rattenburry under some “deals”. So like it or not it has to be either them or Lee.
@JS9 – After 24 years of reckless spending nobody can’t get elected with the promise of austerity overnight. Any balanced budget will be quickly labelled as “regressive” “ultra right” conservatism. While I understand what you are coming from the way to a balanced budget will require more than one term of different leadership and not the tired Barr and Ratteburry tandem.

Never said it can be fixed overnight Incidental. But equally – going and blowing a shedload of cash on a range of projects – all with probably as questionable business cases as the one being slammed, doesn’t exactly scream ‘we will do anything different’.

A commitment to actually look at the books properly would be a good start – the Territory desperately needs an open book expenditure review.

@JS9 – in the current political reality after 24 years of social engineering and wasteful spending nobody can get elected with austerity plan. The first step is removing black hole from the budget such as that white elephant project with unknown price tag. I am not against tram as such. I am against signing blank check on our behalf. As a first step Liberals promised removing this black hole. This alone will not fix the budget but unless we stop writing blank checks reviewing books makes no sense. I have no doubt that ACT Greens and Labor will never disclose books revealing their reckless spending. They refuse even disclose who they borrow money from and on what conditions. Like it or not, only Liberals is the opposition which can look into budget because. There is no other force because we don’t have even single independent MLA.

Why would they bother? Every time the opposition or an independent hint at what we all know needs to be done to fix it, you get Labor and greens stooges shrieking about cutting services and taking away their free stuff. The electorate has voted in favour of irresponsible spending and wastage for over 20 years, so now the other parties are just offering what the electorate apparently wants, big unnecessary projects and mountains of debt.

Such useful input as always Ken….. insert roll eyes here….

Whingeing incessantly about a problem, but not suggesting any ways of addressing it is every bit as bad as creating the problem itself.

The fact is the opposition has never, ever tried. It won’t even make a basic commitment such as undertaking a fundamental expenditure review if it wins office. Trying to be labor lite isn’t going to win it an election – and treating the electorate as stupid won’t either.

Plenty of appetite for change in the community. But the opposition is too stupid to actually realise that.

“Whingeing incessantly about a problem, but not suggesting any ways of addressing it is every bit as bad as creating the problem itself.”

LOL
No, it’s really not, and they have suggested solutions many times, like canning the white elephant on rails, so you can stop telling lies and pretending they offer no solutions.

“Trying to be labor lite isn’t going to win it an election – and treating the electorate as stupid won’t either.”

The electorate is stupid. They have voted for more of the same for over 20 years, then whine about the cost of rates, rents and then every other government charge. The “appetite for change” has not outweighed the rusted on party faithful in 2 decades. It us unlikely to now.

“Everybody except for me is stupid” … ok buddy.

Your attitude exactly reflects why the Liberal Party in the Territory is effectively a professional opposition, with no actual clue as to what the electorate wants, or ability to read the electorate.

The only stupidity on display is your own.

And btw – canning future stages of the tram does nothing to solve the budgetary position problem – because very little of that cost is anywhere near ‘on the books’ at this point.

So try and pretend that is their ‘suggestion’ and all it will show is again, your lack of understanding of Government budgets, or indeed the lack of actually tackling the real problems causing the budgetary position to begin with.

I’m no supporter of the tram project, but I do understand basic accounting treatment of assets and/or future expenditure. Can it tomorrow and there isn’t suddenly a 2 billion dollar improvement in the bottom line, or as the liberals seem to think, 2 billion that can be spent on whatever idea they come up with next.

To reduce debt you reduce spending JS9….SIMPLES!

“Cutting billions in spending does nothing to solve the budgetary problem”.

Econimic genius right there. 🤣

You should probably stop while you’re behind.

The point has gone straight over your head. Shows your complete lack of knowledge on the topic.

The simple fact is the current budgetary position is one in which the overwhelming majority of that claimed $2 billion cost for the future tram is not actually reflected in the Budget. Because its not on the books yet…. there will be whatever the 4 years planning costs etc on the books, but that’s it. Without looking it up – maybe $50 or $100 million.

The rest of that $2 billion is not on the Budget books yet, and is not therefore part of the existing deficit or debt levels.

How is that hard to understand?

Removing that from the future equation simply changes the future trajectory of where the budget is headed – it does effectively nothing to solve the current problem.

The only one with no idea what they are talking about is you.

Where did I say that wasn’t an option Rob?

But reducing a future ‘spend’ that isn’t overwhelmingly on the books yet (only a tiny proportion of the cost associated with Stage 2B is actually in the Budget yet) isn’t going to solve the current Budget deficit, is it?

If a person needs to find $10,000 in savings to balance a personal Budget now – they don’t do that by saying “well in 5 years time I was going to buy a new car for $100,000 – I won’t do that, so problem solved” do they?

And that’s exactly my point. There is absolute zilch coming from anyone – labor, the opposition, all these experts ex-treasury/ex-politicians screaming ‘debt disaster’ about how/what they would do to change the circumstance.

All not doing the next stage of the tram does is affect the future growth trajectory of the debt. It does nothing to fundamentally solve the current deficit issue – but for some on here (not aimed at you), understanding that is a bridge too far.

And there is precious little genuine discussion about how one would actually seek to fundamentally solve – tram or no tram (it doesn’t change the fundamentals) the unsustainable budgetary position the Territory is currently in.

The point didn’t go over my head at all. I found the point you were trging to make to be the usual absurd BS labor supporters use to pretend the tram is the only issue. It’s not. It’s just the most visible. We also have billions of dollars being wasted on unnecessary virtue signalling like rainbow roundabouts, gay traffic signals, massive subsidies for electric cars etc etc ets that can also all be slashed.

Are you really as moronic as your comments suggest Ken?

Please show where am I trying to ‘pretend the tram is the only issue?’ You were the one after all that put that forward as an example of a ‘solution’ to address the Budget deficit problem, when it simply will not – it will do nothing of the sort.

While doing that in its own right may be a desirable policy decision, it effectively does nothing to address the actual issues driving the current deficit as it stands.

From what I can find, the current Budget has around $60 million in funding committed to Stage 2B expenditure out to 2028 (I haven’t scanned fully through – so there may be a little more hiding elsewhere in individual territory entity budgets).

In the context of addressing the factors driving the current deficit (i.e. the one actually made up of committed expenditure – not potential future expenditure) it is going to do jack all. And that’s before the fact some of that would be the Commonwealth funding, that if it isn’t spent on the tram, will ultimately have to be returned to the Commonwealth.

I.e. it doesn’t address any fundamental issue driving the current budget deficit. So it is not as you claim a ‘solution’ to anything related to the deficit, beyond being a decision that would simply reduce the growth rate of the future total debt of the territoy. It addresses none of the underlying fundamental issues.

Your last line, despite your dribbling about virtue signalling, is actually touching on exactly the point I am making. Where are the policies from any parties actually targeting reviewing or reducing current expenditure as a way to address the deficit issue? Where is a commitment to even undertake an expenditure review?

Anything from anyone? The fact it is crickets from all sides says it all.