Undercover cops to target motorists not giving space to cyclists

Les Eite Why are you walking on bike paths?

Bill Mulger because I can

Then don’t bitch about it

David Brown video evidence is compelling. All they have to prove is that you didn’t provide the mandatory minimum distance. They don’t have to prove exactly what distance you left.

It’s easy to tell the difference between 50 cms and 150 cms.

Paul Casimir I have been a photographer for more than 50 years. Among other things that I have learnt is that the focal length of the lens greatly influences the apparent proximity of the object in view.

David Brown two objects next to each other ie at the same distance from the lens – the error will be trivial. You can get a sense of the distance by reference to fixed dimensions eg the diameter of the car’s wheel, or by looking at whether the car crosses the lane (and, if so, by how much).

As I said, it’s not hard to spot people who grossly infringe the law. I doubt that anything marginal would be prosecuted. Certainly it’s been my experience dealing with the AFP that they will only prosecute when the video evidence is undeniable.

Apart from video evidence there’s also an ultrasound based system that will provide a number

Paul Casimir Using the expression “sense of” goes back to my comment. Will an estimate stand up in court? I don’t know. I imagine you don’t either. Time will tell.

David Brown I do know, because it has happened already. People have already been convicted in court based on video evidence.

As I said, there may be some doubt when it’s a matter of a few centimeters, but many cases are absolutely unarguable.

David Brown he will most likely have front and rear cycliq bike cameras. No need to chase you down they will just send you the infringement notice.

Well done for admitting intent

No I did

Question thou

First person to ark up

Do u ride bikes

Blake Rose ever cut one off they are some deadly tights coming at you

I’ve actually cleaned one up at round about on Ginny drive😂😂😂

Angela Thomas having been deliberately run off the road recently on my ride to work, this is something I worry about .

Stuart Brogan you didnt use a cycle path?

Alex Elliott Very wrong buddy. Bicycles are entitled to take whatever space in the lane they require to feel safe (unless there is a separate bike lane). So if we want to take the lane we will. And you will have give us the lawful distance when passing. Time to read & understand the road rules again for you little man.

Margaret Freemantle do they Margaret? Do they?

Margaret Freemantle oh dear, but did they endanger lives?? Examples, please.

Margaret Freemantle please tell me all about the many deaths caused by all these alleged bicycle law-breakers? Or just give me, say, 3-4 actual cases in the past 5 years in the ACT❓🤔

Addrienne Adamson like motorists, both break the rules, unlike motorists, cyclists don’t kill.

Peter Signorini none in the last 10 years perhaps.

Euan Buchanan she is just another hypocrite.

Margaret Freemantle “cyclists booked under freedom of information” 😂😂😂
For what? Carrying documents in their panniers?

Peter Signorini try driving along Forbes st. The police and ambulance there this week. Bike riders coming from the ANU, a narrow street, all over the road regularly, black jackets, no helmets- there will be a death and someone will have to live with the guilt.

Eoin Wotkinz they do. Red lights mean nothing and nor do orderly lines or lanes. And I have witnessed them ignoring stop signs near construction sites- just plain ignorant

Margaret Freemantle On the Gold coast it is simmilar, but the uber delivery riders and tourists. There is only 2 countries in the world with helmet laws, so could be a lot of foreign students.

The reason is that helmets are not that effective, and the argument for helmets can equally be applied to motor vehicles, although modern cars with air bags serve the same purpose.

The introduction of helmet laws in Australia saw a dramatic drop in the numbers of people cycling as the law was sold on the danger of cars and trucks. The consequence, actually more people have died due to health issues.

Margaret Freemantle Studies suggest that cyclists break the law far less than car drivers.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2273001/cyclists-comply-traffic-laws-more-drivers

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a27456430/cycling-laws-bike-lanes/

Mathew Mendo there was a truck driver charged this year, and of course the famous one of the guy that murdered a cyclists after anti cycling posts and nearly hitting another. He is doing jail time if course.

Mathew Mendo I do not know about ACT data, but there have been 8 deaths of cyclists in Victoria so far this year. On the pattern of fault 6 of those at least will be the driver at-fault. In 2017 there were 12 cyclists killed and 10 of those were directly caused by drivers. One of the riders killed was a good mate of mine. Nationally drivers kill 1200 people annually!

Meantime the last death (of a pedestrian) caused by an at-fault rider was in 2006. Before that it was about 1973. I am not aware of a single motor-vehicle occupant killed by a bicycle rider.

So basically, such claims about the “dangerous cyclists” are shit❗️

Stuart Brogan cyclist get killed by not looking out for their own safety.

Peter McDonald what utter shite! The classic victim-blame line. I guess you will blame you daughter and not the rapist when she gets done over at a night out when wearing fancy clothes❓

Peter McDonald yes, but not common, see post above or check out the UniSA study for the Automobile Association of Australia Study, motorists at fault 79% of the time.

Euan Buchanan doubt this!! In Australia, cyclists aren’t monitored- can you please provide stats on how many cyclists have been charged?

Debbie Thomsen nearly lost a two year old to a peanut cyclist, flying along on the footpath. Didnt even hear him coming..

Peter Signorini Who mentioned deaths? Arrogant cyclists want the road, the bike paths and the footpaths. Im constantly dodging them while driving and then nearly being hit by them on the lakes paths as im walking with the family.. They certainly dont feel the need to give distance or slow when passing pedestrians, even with small kids…

Phil Mcdonald so true. They ride around the lake and the majority have no respect for pedestrians and no bells. Just once, I would like to see them pulled up!

Peter Signorini ,Mate once again i dont follow your logic and your comparative example really doesnt fit what i think you are trying to say. Perhaps you need to remove your lycra and your head from your arse and go for a walk around one of the Canberra lakes..

Margaret Freemantle if you want data about cyclists being ‘monitored’ I suggest you get that from the AFP. But if you think cyclists aren’t booked by police then just google ‘operation pedro’.

Phil Mcdonald generalizing much?

Phil Mcdonald road deaths, and injuries, are the key indicator of “risk”. People on bicycles are a minimal risk of harm to others. The greatest risk, by a quantum leap, on our roads and footpaths are the drivers of motor vehicles. But in the nature of your “othering” this is simply brushed away 🙄😒

Phil Mcdonald oh great line of argument there. With the ad hominem comes the admisson of failure.

Phil Mcdonald Maybe the “supervising adult” wasn’t supervising properly? It is a SHARED PATH after all, so bloody share it then and share the responsibility too!

Margaret Freemantle No, can you?

I can tell you which mode of transport is responsible for over 1,000 fatalities and over 10,000 serious injuries each year, and it isn’t cycling. I’m in no doubt about that.

Phil Mcdonald “Phil Mcdonald Peter Signorini never once have i nearly been knocked over by a car driving on the footpath or a bicycle path.. Pete you are living proof that you dont need a long neck to be a goose!!”

And you are living proof of a failure to draw distinction between personal experience and authoritative statistics. Over a thousand people don’t “nearly” die because of cars, they DIE! Dead, Never to walk this earth again.

You, “nearly lost a two year old to a peanut cyclist.”

Phil Mcdonald Really? I have. And I know of 3 cycling fatalities on bike PATHS… not lanes. through being hit by cars

Phil Mcdonald maybe you should check the road toll data then. Several hundred people are killed annually in Australia, and hundreds more injured. By motor vehicles. While walking. Often enough these deaths occur while they are walking on-the-footpath even!

And the ad-hominem continues. Further admission of you failure to present any case. Failed line of argument.

Sher Young so where do you suggest they ride?? As far as I know, there isn’t a speed limit signposted on shared paths. Just share the path, ok?

Debbie I think you missed the point. Let people know you are passing. Simple

Euan Buchanan everyone needs to be responsible. It is always the fault of the motorist. FYI to all the haters, I don’t own a car, I’m a cyclist who is embarrassed by the behaviour of a small group of arrogant and inconsiderate cyclists.

Margaret Welsh cyclists should take care, you are correct. That said you should therefore multiply that feeling and think of a car or bus going past close at speed.

Sher Young Nearly right, it’s the fault of the motorist 80% of the time.

I’ll car more about cyclists breaking the law when they’re doing the similar levels of harm that motorists are.

1) Cyclists are more compliant to law than motorists are.
2) When breaking the law, cyclists rarely put others in danger.

FYI I primarily get around by motorcycle these days, however I do cycle as well.

Margaret Welsh I believe many are unable to be reasonable regarding this matter. It’s about everyone sharing and following road/path rules. Glad to share travel space with you 🥰

Stuart Brogan I do feel every car and truck and bus every time I ride. I often cycle more than 150 kms a week.

Margaret Welsh which is why when I’m on a shared path I take it easy, I know how pedestrians feel, as I am one often.

David Klenka cyclists also have cars dude. Maybe not literally every one but most

David Klenka the cycle paths are often more dangerous than the roads. The tree roots alone are a problem.

David Klenka – this is a good description…

Eoin Wotkinz my point is cyclists use the roads but don’t pay to use the roads like the rest of us. They are even more vulnerable on the road than motorcyclists with very little protection and margin for error. I’m aware many cyclists also have vehicles as well and ride to work to save on fuel costs. Safety should be the first priority and as our bike paths have a really good network we should use these instead.

Margaret Welsh that’s a flimsy argument if i ever heard one. Our bike paths are very good and tree roots aren’t as common a problem as you might think.

David Riddel can’t imagine riding on the roads in Sydney let alone Canberra. You’re taking your life in your hands and its not worth it. Some roads are very narrow and Pennant Hills Road is a classic example. Very dangerous.

David Klenka next time you see a pothole, call the rego department and tell them to fix it.

I used to commute by bike. It was literally impossible for me to use paths for most of the journey. What do you suggest?

The bike paths mostly meander around scenic routes too & are not practical for actually getting anywhere.

They are also VERY poorly maintained & dangerous.

In principle I’m not really against some sort of license/rego system.

David Klenka rego doesn’t pay for roads. General tax and revenue does, so cyclists are paying more than their share for roads.
Rego pays for the epic cost of long term injuries from car accidents. If you want cheaper rego drive safely and don’t hit any cyclists.

David Klenka – I’ve ridden over 20,000kms on roads this year alone— but perhaps you can comment from a greater experience…

David Riddel you’re lucky your still alive. You must have seen your fair share of near misses and reckless behaviour from other road users. I’m sorry if i thought about the safety of cyclists over the use of our roads. Cyclists riding without helmets and wearing their phone headsets can’t hear the hazards around them aren’t helping themselves.

Megan Baker-Goldsmith you’re still a road user and should pay a licence and/or rego like the rest of us. Rego covers insurance as well. My point is though that roads are far too unsafe for cyclists. Period.

Luckylegs Chris what an intelligent response to a serious topic.

David Klenka I pay tax, rates and car rego and I ride my bike on roads but much prefer bike paths.

David Klenka
The road is perfectly safe for everyone to share as long as we all pay attention, follow the rules and use common sense.

Saying cyclists shouldn’t be there because drivers can’t share the road safely is on par with saying women need to wear burqas in public because men can’t behave themselves.

Cyclists not paying rego is a myth. Every rider I know owned one or two cars. Rego payed. All cyclist I know are cycling Australia payed members – almost 200 bucks a year to cover third party and injury insurance. A lot of cyclists pay more than enough. I recon if you want to rego riders, make it that they join cycling Australia. At least they will have insurance and even a licence!!!

David Klenka roads aren’t unsafe for cyclists, other road users are. Stop blaming the victim and focus on what should be done: removing incompetent and unsafe road users from the road, regardless of what their vehicle choice is.

Funny, I’ve asked this question nearly every time I see an ignorant ‘stay on the bloody paths!” comment. Not one response, ever.

Would you like me to point out the hugely relevant difference?
“MOTOR”

David Klenka want to bet. I ride on paths all of the time. There are also holes and the sides of the paths are often falling away.

Martin Stanton this strategy of preventing motorists close passing off an intersection was actually recommended to me by a police officer. I’ve tried it a few times and to be honest, don’t feel comfortable doing it. I can see though, that there may be instances where this road craft skill may be necessary.
If you are not a cyclist, unfortunately, you’ll never be able to conceive of why and under which circumstances this tactic is required. However, if that cyclist is anything like a normal cycling road user, it wouldn’t have been a lightly thought decision.
All of us cyclists, we’re motorists too. We understand both sides of the equation.

Martin, while riding to work i had a lady pass me yesterday morning and then cut in front of me making me hit the brakes as she wanted to be in the next driveway yesterday. Also in the afternoon, waiting at the cycle crossing to cross Adelaide ave at the and of Launceston st 3 cars entered the intersection while had a green light……….

Bruce, you mean like wearing Lycra?

Ian McDonald read the article not the headline

Ian McDonald detecting sarcasm

Why not? I’ve seen cyclocops prosecute cyclists for going topless.

These “Q-cycles” will be easy to pick. They’ll have helmets and lights and cameras and chunky riders with guns on their hips. And dead eyes.

Many?
Your confirmation bias isn’t supported by science

Even though they will be dressed as cyclists, Sergeant Boorman also said his officers will not turn a blind eye to their fellow road users who do the wrong thing.

“I can assure you that while we are conducting this operation, if we see any cyclists that are not doing the right thing there will be consequences,” he said.

Elias Hallaj pardon my scepticism, but the place has been a self governing entity since 1989 and this has been a running sore ever since, with our useless constabulary treating complaints about this behaviour with contempt. Quite frankly, their record suggests nothing will change. I do hope I will be surprised.

Alan Rose Yes the onus is on the driver of the 2 Tonne killing machine to drive safely & obey the law. Pretty bloody simple mate.

Cy Norman you have missed the point mate, ride smart and stay alive. I get that some motorists are not doing the right thing. I give them the room but cyclists ride in some pretty unsafe areas

Alan Rose while there is a similar percentage of cyclists doing silly things as drivers, often the rubbish, glass, branches and potholes on the road verges are preventing cyclists from keeping to the left.

Margaret Welsh yes I have seen this too, I think I should have included “ where possible” in my comments. My main point is we all should take responsibility for our own safety and not rely on motorists to do the right thing. I have seen some sketchy drivers out there.

Alan Rose – the legislation:

David Riddel this would be good on the back of a T-shirt. Rules are only good if they are followed. In the real world I am not putting my safety at risk hoping someone remembers the rules and follows them. I hope the police catch the motorists doing the wrong thing, I for one give the required room and follow the rules.

Alan Rose I guess the reason for the focus on motorcycle safety is that a high percentage of motorcyclist are killed by their own actions. 80% of of accidents between cyclists and motorists are the fault of motorists. (UniSA study)

Alan Rose just stick to the law pal. Everyone gets home alive. That’s all we all really want isn’t it?

Peter Athey righto pal, I have always stuck to the law, perhaps cyclist could too

Alan Rose Problem is, you don’t know the law otherwise you wouldln’t have opined about cyclists staying ‘far left’. That’s not the law and cyclists are not required to do so.

Expecting other road users to adhere to your standards and not the law is part of the problem.

I think the point Alan is making is that the legislation doesn’t make us look both ways before we cross the road but we do because it’s best for our health. That’s how I read it I know when I’m on the road on a cycle or motorcycle I ride defensively and keep myself out of harms way because it’s my duty of care to do so.

Alan Rose, keeping as far left as possible is an invitation for a car to close pass you as driver see it as they don’t have to move over so far.

On say a single lane road with no shoulder the left hand wheel track is as far left as possible, if it has a shoulder and depending on how bug the shoulder is further left again, on a multi lane road with a bike lane in the bike lane unless it’s unsafe.

I have to ride a portion of London cct on my way to work. This is a 60 and 40 zone because it’s a built up area. If I ride 50cm off the gutter people don’t move over as they pass, if I take the lane properly and ride in the left hand wheel track they slow down and make a decent attempt at passing.

Now for you, you might think that is dangerous riding because I am “putting myself in danger ” when in fact I am not as what I am doing is slowing things down to make sure people pass properly.

Do I do this on the Monaro highway? Hell no, the speed differential and reaction times are to high and too long, plus there is a nice wide cycle one that I don’t need to be mixing it with the traffic.

Not one size fits all when you make broad assumptions like you have.

Karl Brown I suggest you start at the top of the comments, I have used “keep left where possible” in many of them. Keep riding how you see fit I just hope everyone gives you the required space by law. If you find yourself under the left front wheel of a vehicle you can assure yourself that you were right and they are not. Perhaps there should be a stay upright course for cyclists to use the roads as there is for motorcycle riders.

Ian Bensley I used to commute by bike. It was literally impossible for me to use paths for most of the journey. What do you suggest?

Funny, I’ve asked this question nearly every time I see an ignorant ‘stay on the bloody paths!” comment. Not one response, ever.

Keran Niquet read the article

Anura Samara.I did and stand by my earlier comment.

The ones who ride three and four abreast.

Irene Faunt ahh, the old “three and four abreast” myth. In general it did not happen.

It is usually a big case of driver-perspective-fail. Skewed perspective, also called parallax-error. When approaching from behind you cannot tell who is abreast and who is simply two-abreast and just a little bit off line. Riders with experience in group riding will be able to tell you why this is *actually* a safe cyclecraft technique.

As a driver moves to overtake, the angular view makes any two-abreast group appear to be four or five abreast….. but they are *not*❗️

Ken Bowes
Doink….! SPLAT!!!

Ken Bowes Every comment here by motorists is about loosing 5 seconds here, 10 seconds there to wait for a safe passing distance. Motorists are a self righteous bunch & Australian’s are the worst in the world.

Cy Norman No mate – its about road safety. Most comments against cyclists here refer to their tendencies to regularly break the law – putting themselves and other road users in danger – then cry that it was the motorists fault. I sit at the red light and watch the character mentioned in my post just about every morning ride up to the intersection, not stop and cross over despite the red light which he ignores, forgetting that cars with a green light will be approaching that intersection from each direction, not expecting to have to deal with an impatient and self-righteous fool (ironically, which most road cyclists are). He is not slowing me down or impacting my journey – but he is putting himself and others in danger on the road, and that is why a lot of motorists have chosen to comment on this piece, not because they are self-righteous.

Want a link to the studies concluding that no group of road users offends at a greater rate than others or would you prefer to stick with your confirmation bias?

Bill Mulger Read what I wrote – I am both a cyclist and a motorist and have made the observation that the self-righteous cyclists such as do themselves no favours in ignoring the rules of the road but will complain voraciously about motorists. It is why when this story was first posted the comments were flooded with complaints about cyclists. Cy Norman is an example of that and so are you,😉

Malcolm Allen stop it Malcolm… you’re ruining angry narratives

Peter McDonald read the article to find out!

Peter McDonald Bet the don’t because you don’t need a licence

Aldith Graves cyclists are still subject to the road rules regardless of whether they have a licence or not..

Anura Samara and so are pedestrians.

Stuart Brogan start charging pedestrians rego!!!!! 🤣

Paul South tie a pool noodle to their bike like that other guy 😂😂😂😂

Paul as per the UK has been doing, it will involve 2 things.

1) Visual perspective from the officer to judge if the pass was dangerous.
2) go pro like camera to provide video evidence of the incident.

These 2 are all they need. Just like an officer pulling over a reckless driver, it is the oddicer who will make a call if the pass was justified or illegal.

I use a measuring tape every day . If you recon the average joe can tell the difference between 1.2 m and 1.6m your dreaming . Good luck in getting it to stick in court