Where did you get your licence?

JC said :

For sure the ramps need to be longer, but you do realise that in this situation the vehicle merging MUST give way. I personally try to get out of the way of cars merging IF I CAN, if I cannot what I do depends upon the traffic and the merge.

I don’t think this is entirely true, I think it depends on the road markings and signs. In the absence of road markings or signs indicating the contrary, when merging, the general rule (I thought) is that the car in front has right of way.

Of course you could just apply some common sense, regardless of the supposed rule, and back off a little and let the car in from the left. It’s courteous, it’s safer than requiring them to stop (which they may have to do is there is no break in the traffic), and it barely slows you down.

IP

KB1971 said :

IrishPete said :

KB1971: Sorry, I should have been more specific – I meant Carwoola Station, so south of the Hoskinstown turnoff you probably took.

IP

What road is that on? We turned left onto Briars Sharrow Road and then right onto Plains Road.

A couple of km further along Captains Flat Road, if you had not taken the Briars Sharrow turnoff. The bit of the CF Road you did use is generally wider than it is the further you get from Queanbeyan. The last 10km before Captains Flat is Suicide Alley for cyclists. Shame, as I’m sure it’s a great ride, but the road is just two narrow, tree-lined and winding.

IP

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Pollushon said :

hetzjagd1 said :

ATTENTION:

If the speed l limit is 80 or lower and I need to drive in the right lane at 80 I am going to do so. If you have a problem with it? Well you have NO options. Want to tailgate me? I hope your reaction time is good and your insurance is up to date.

Blah, blah, TLDR.

You do realise there are people who use the road that have no regard for your car, your insurance or you life? That carry dangerous if not deadly implements? I pray it’s only you in the car should you be so unlucky to cross such a person, who follows you home and beats you to a pulp or worse.

You can protest your rights and their lack of options all you want while they kick your skull in, but ultimately it’s only going to serve a purpose when/if you’re able to speak again and make a statement to the Police, who in the off chance actually apprehend the perpetrator, gets a slap on the wrist, or a revolving AMC sleep over and from then on keeps a glaring eye out for you on the road, maybe to progress a sequel they’ve been writing around you as the antagonist.

Being courteous isn’t just about being courteous and car accidents aren’t the only thing to survive on the road these days. You’ve lived in a bubble for a while haven’t you?

What a ridiculous fear mongering comment. All I need to do is make eye contact with a road rager and straight away they are eyes front.
We are not living in some dangerous country full of life takers, you know?

You can convince yourself of whatever you like mate, it’s all just ponies and rainbows, I don’t disagree that I embellish to make a point. But seriously, what the hell is wrong with people? Brake checking to make a point about nothing? Needlessly endangering people over something so stupid as their pride in the eyes of strangers?

I used to get called out quite regularly to temporarily glaze vehicle windows until stock and insurance matters were sorted. Quite a number of those were road rage attacks, the most notable being a young mother with 4 grunts in car who was dragged through her smashed drivers wind-up by the hair, receiving a fractured skull and broken jaw. She only made a mistake, wasn’t even an intentional arse act. They only stopped kicking her because bystanders jumped in.

Sure Canberra is much less violent than other capital cities I’ve found, but it’s no Shangri-La. Yep, 99% of those steering wheel warriors are soft, lame and will stare ahead, they were born in Canberra of course! These surely are people who complain about the cold. It only takes the 1% to shatter your perfect existence. And why? All so one can be a prideful arrogant arsehat. That 1% are in your city mate, they also drive cars. Sorry, that’s just a fact, not fear mongering. I live across the road from one.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

While that’s is a great effort to do that ride, I am sorry but I am going to have to call you a sick freak for attempting such a thing!

Ha, try this on for size: http://45nrth.com/chronicles/post/jay-petervarys-arrowhead-135-victorty-in-photographs

To OP

“Many thousands”…Really?

You’ve “observed” Canberra drivers. I think yes you have. What you’ve not “observed” is the NSW drivers doing all the same stuff. Its fun to beat up on ourselves but you’ve just noticed ACT drivers because thats what you’ve looked for. Theres a name for that too but I bet you have the internet and everything so can look it up.

Ive driven in every state and every state has crappy drivers. Plus in most cities Ive spoken to people who say the drivers in their city are the worst because blah blah blah.

Welcome to the Human Race. We do stuff that bugs others.

DavidL said :

And please – read the pdfs referred to above – particularly if you are going straight through a roundabout (not turning right) and you put your right indicator out before leaving the intersection. It is wrong and does cause accidents.

Come again?

If you are going straight through, your left-indicator should be on as you leave the roundabout.
Your right indicator may optionally be used on entering it.
At no time should your right indicator be on whilst exiting a roundabout in any direction.

I am constantly flabbergasted at people who seem to quite deliberately have their right indicator on as they exit a roundabout.
How stupid are these people?
Too stupid to hold a licence, in an ideal world.

IrishPete said :

KB1971: Sorry, I should have been more specific – I meant Carwoola Station, so south of the Hoskinstown turnoff you probably took.

IP

What road is that on? We turned left onto Briars Sharrow Road and then right onto Plains Road.

Aeek said :

Here, my keep left beefs are
1) when I am trying to merge from a blind down ramp (WHY are they like this?) and everyone is left and stays left.

For sure the ramps need to be longer, but you do realise that in this situation the vehicle merging MUST give way. I personally try to get out of the way of cars merging IF I CAN, if I cannot what I do depends upon the traffic and the merge.

If it is a set of lights then I won’t get out of the way of a car turning left and wanting to merge into the lane I am in, simply because I was taught not to make sudden lane changes on approach to, or just after traffic lights, and of course in this situation there may be a large speed difference.

I have noticed for some reason that cars turning out of Copland Drive onto Gininderra Drive are really starting to pull the piss a little in relation to this. Every morning I see a car turning left here wanting to get into the traffic lane straight away, even if there are cars coming at 80km/h towards them. I rekcon they think that because the turning lane is a little longer than most left hand turns at lights they can just go when they like, when really like all merges when you need to cross a line the vehicle crossing MUST give way.

But on the longer ramp type merges (such as Kings Ave into Parkes Way city bound), or like where the Tuggeranong Parkway joins William Hovell Drive, if it is peak hour as I approach the merge if there is a car beside me but slightly in front I will take my foot off the back off the juice to give the vehicle the space to come in front, I expect the vehicle to TAKE the gap I have left without me needing to take any form of evasive action such as braking.

If it is a quieter period, but I still have a car to my right then I expect the merging car to pull in behind me.

There are so many posts I may have missed someone else already pointing this out.

In general, IT IS Illegal to stay in the right hand lane in a 100 zone, with exceptions, the exception most relevant to this topic is that you can stay in the right lane if “the traffic in the other lanes is
congested; or the traffic in every lane is congested” http://www.rego.act.gov.au/assets/PDFs/ACT_Road_Rules_Handbook.pdf?
and the same in NSW except that the explanatory pdf leaves out “or the traffic in every lane is congested” http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/…/top_10_misunderstood_road_rules.pdf

The point made about speedos being inaccurate is highly relevant – at one stage I had three cars – one showed 93 kmh when it was doing 100, the second showed 105 kmh when it was doing 100, and the third showed around 102 when doing 100. Verified by a couple of GPS units and the Victorian speed check built units – but don’t trust the trailer type units which can be 20 kmh out of whack (thanks NSW RTA or whatever you are now called – on the Barton Highway occasionally).

Canberra drivers stay in the right lane:
1. Because they can or they are the type of person who wants to impose the rules on others (including an older style public servant who does the same at work).
2. Male (mostly) egos – no one shall pass me – especially if I am a tradie driving a ute (for those tradies who keep to the limit) note that on the Barton Highway all the tradies speed (and a high proportion overtake on double lines).
3. I am turning right in five kilometres (verified to me by an experienced ACT taxi driver identifying this to me).
4. The legitimate one – congested traffic.

For those too lazy to move left when cars are doing various speeds, change your habits – I am amused when I have just overtaken someone who seems a little peeved and I move left – often they then behave and move left (just to explain this usually happens when leaving a roundabout and cars are accelerating at different speeds so I am in the left lane passing someone who has stuck themselves in the right lane for some time before the intersection).

And please – read the pdfs referred to above – particularly if you are going straight through a roundabout (not turning right) and you put your right indicator out before leaving the intersection. It is wrong and does cause accidents.

KB1971: Sorry, I should have been more specific – I meant Carwoola Station, so south of the Hoskinstown turnoff you probably took.

IP

IrishPete said :

Based on that route and the use of the plural, I presume it wasn’t you who I passed near Carwoola the other day (Sunday I think). An oncoming ute was always going to mean I couldn’t go around at my cruise speed, so I had to slow down to wobbly-older-cyclist pace then go around. (And this was on flat road.) Fortunately the vehicle behind me was also paying attention, and didn’t do anything dumb.

Just to get my circulation going, he decided to wave to the ute as it went past him, causing him wobble a little bit more when he took one hand off the handlebars (dude – a nod of the head is enough on country roads). I wish he’d had a mirror, or occasionally looked behind him to know I was coming.

Cyclists are rare on that road, and for good reason. The dirt roads you used are probably better because most traffic goes slower, they tend to be wider much of the time (dirt’s cheaper than tarmac!) and quieter. This bloke was on a road bike

IP

We went through Carwoola on Saturday but there was 6 of us and we all moved into single file every time a car came past.

That bit of road, while not being very busy, as you say is not ideal for riders but we had to get out there somehow and that is the only way.

Once we turned onto the road to Hoskinstown the traffic dramatically reduced.

I expected the road out to Rossi to be busy but it was the run over to Harolds Cross that surprised me, so many cars of such an out of the way area.

The basic problem is people driving without thinking, something that is too easy here.

The keep lefters wouldn’t handle Adelaide’s old main roads. On those, everyone drives in alternate lanes, combines braking distance with somewhere to go when there’s the parked car or car waiting to turn right.

Here, my keep left beefs are
1) when I am trying to merge from a blind down ramp (WHY are they like this?) and everyone is left and stays left.
2) on the bicycle and driver gets irate rather than overtake in the EMPTY right lane (mostly before bike lanes everywhere)

Had a NSW registered Mitsubishi 4WD in front of me on Gininderra Drive this morning. The women slowed to about 50km/h so she could get into the RH lane just before Aikam Drive. Had thought she was going to turn and was late moving across. But no she sat in the right hand lane all the way to Moat Street, though at least she sped up to 70km/h.

Anyway good for me because I was behind her so managed to get a clear bit of road, but a totally sensless act. People like this I would love to pull over and ask what exactly they were thinking, as there was no reason what so ever for her to do that. And as mentioned before Gininderra Drive is signed (rather poorly though) as a keep left unless overtaking zone despite it being 80km/h.

KB1971 said :

Well I am going to eat my words here…..a bit. While I still stand by what I said originally, I am going to back Proboscus more on this one.

I just rode my mountain bike from Quangers to Moroya via the back roads through Rossi, Majors Creek and Araluen.

All but one of the drivers from NSW were courteous and gave us plenty of room, didn’t drive past us too fast and were exemplary in their behavior.

Canberra drivers on the other hand……sped past, left no room and one even tooted us to get out of the way when all he had to do was move to the right more. We were in the left hand wheel track keeping out of the lose dirt and there was a good 4m between us and the other verge. He also passed my handlebars with way less than a metre to spare.

We decided to take back roads because it would be quiet and we would not be disturbing anyone but it seems there is no stopping the sense of entitlement of a Canberra driver to “have” to pass a bike rider at any cost.

So, to you in the white Subaru Outback (circa 2007), the blue Ford Ranger (current model), the bloke in the VW ute with the dual axle trailer, and the guy in the new Commodore who nearly pushed me off the single lane bridge: you are farktards. You are on holidays, slow down and have fun for farks sake and don’t spoil other peoples fun.

To all the nice NSW drivers who slowed down and even stopped to chat, thank you, you enriched the experience.

Based on that route and the use of the plural, I presume it wasn’t you who I passed near Carwoola the other day (Sunday I think). An oncoming ute was always going to mean I couldn’t go around at my cruise speed, so I had to slow down to wobbly-older-cyclist pace then go around. (And this was on flat road.) Fortunately the vehicle behind me was also paying attention, and didn’t do anything dumb.

Just to get my circulation going, he decided to wave to the ute as it went past him, causing him wobble a little bit more when he took one hand off the handlebars (dude – a nod of the head is enough on country roads). I wish he’d had a mirror, or occasionally looked behind him to know I was coming.

Cyclists are rare on that road, and for good reason. The dirt roads you used are probably better because most traffic goes slower, they tend to be wider much of the time (dirt’s cheaper than tarmac!) and quieter. This bloke was on a road bike.

IP

Registered in NSW to avoid being known as a Canberran? You can join the 4WD brigade! Or the “drive 70kmph in a single lane highway and speed up to stop overtaking” Welshmen. Or go back to your L’s and be a road hazard doing 30kmph under the speed limit because that’s the fastest you can do.

NSW isn’t any better.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

While that’s is a great effort to do that ride, I am sorry but I am going to have to call you a sick freak for attempting such a thing!

You should try it sometime, its good for the soul.

KB1971 said :

KB1971 said :

You don’t get out too often do you Probuscus?

Drive the Monaro Highway in the snow season and see who the drongos are, they are from all over but mainly NSW.

Down on the Sapphire Coast? Victorians at this time of year (I grew up with it, they do all the same things you described).

Fraser Island? just about everybody from all over the country.

Canberra drivers are not unique.

I get to travel a bit for work and the two pieces of roads that I have had issues with are the Melbourne freeways and the Brisbane freeways, the trucks seem to think its OK to sit a foot and a half off your rear bumper.

Well I am going to eat my words here…..a bit. While I still stand by what I said originally, I am going to back Proboscus more on this one.

I just rode my mountain bike from Quangers to Moroya via the back roads through Rossi, Majors Creek and Araluen.

All but one of the drivers from NSW were courteous and gave us plenty of room, didn’t drive past us too fast and were exemplary in their behavior.

Canberra drivers on the other hand……sped past, left no room and one even tooted us to get out of the way when all he had to do was move to the right more. We were in the left hand wheel track keeping out of the lose dirt and there was a good 4m between us and the other verge. He also passed my handlebars with way less than a metre to spare.

We decided to take back roads because it would be quiet and we would not be disturbing anyone but it seems there is no stopping the sense of entitlement of a Canberra driver to “have” to pass a bike rider at any cost.

So, to you in the white Subaru Outback (circa 2007), the blue Ford Ranger (current model), the bloke in the VW ute with the dual axle trailer, and the guy in the new Commodore who nearly pushed me off the single lane bridge: you are farktards. You are on holidays, slow down and have fun for farks sake and don’t spoil other peoples fun.

To all the nice NSW drivers who slowed down and even stopped to chat, thank you, you enriched the experience.

While that’s is a great effort to do that ride, I am sorry but I am going to have to call you a sick freak for attempting such a thing!

Pollushon said :

hetzjagd1 said :

ATTENTION:

If the speed l limit is 80 or lower and I need to drive in the right lane at 80 I am going to do so. If you have a problem with it? Well you have NO options. Want to tailgate me? I hope your reaction time is good and your insurance is up to date.

Blah, blah, TLDR.

You do realise there are people who use the road that have no regard for your car, your insurance or you life? That carry dangerous if not deadly implements? I pray it’s only you in the car should you be so unlucky to cross such a person, who follows you home and beats you to a pulp or worse.

You can protest your rights and their lack of options all you want while they kick your skull in, but ultimately it’s only going to serve a purpose when/if you’re able to speak again and make a statement to the Police, who in the off chance actually apprehend the perpetrator, gets a slap on the wrist, or a revolving AMC sleep over and from then on keeps a glaring eye out for you on the road, maybe to progress a sequel they’ve been writing around you as the antagonist.

Being courteous isn’t just about being courteous and car accidents aren’t the only thing to survive on the road these days. You’ve lived in a bubble for a while haven’t you?

What a ridiculous fear mongering comment. All I need to do is make eye contact with a road rager and straight away they are eyes front.
We are not living in some dangerous country full of life takers, you know?

TallBoy said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

Well that’s not what happens at all!

And what point am I meant to be making?

Moronic, hypocritical, bigoted cretin! You must harbour an extreme level of arrogance to talk the way you do. Shrill on some road rules but silent on the ones that make you look like a fool.

Gross Bigot.

Too childish to control your ego while driving = Should be retired from the road

Pretty sure you have no idea what 90% of the words you posted actually mean.

KB1971 said :

You don’t get out too often do you Probuscus?

Drive the Monaro Highway in the snow season and see who the drongos are, they are from all over but mainly NSW.

Down on the Sapphire Coast? Victorians at this time of year (I grew up with it, they do all the same things you described).

Fraser Island? just about everybody from all over the country.

Canberra drivers are not unique.

I get to travel a bit for work and the two pieces of roads that I have had issues with are the Melbourne freeways and the Brisbane freeways, the trucks seem to think its OK to sit a foot and a half off your rear bumper.

Well I am going to eat my words here…..a bit. While I still stand by what I said originally, I am going to back Proboscus more on this one.

I just rode my mountain bike from Quangers to Moroya via the back roads through Rossi, Majors Creek and Araluen.

All but one of the drivers from NSW were courteous and gave us plenty of room, didn’t drive past us too fast and were exemplary in their behavior.

Canberra drivers on the other hand……sped past, left no room and one even tooted us to get out of the way when all he had to do was move to the right more. We were in the left hand wheel track keeping out of the lose dirt and there was a good 4m between us and the other verge. He also passed my handlebars with way less than a metre to spare.

We decided to take back roads because it would be quiet and we would not be disturbing anyone but it seems there is no stopping the sense of entitlement of a Canberra driver to “have” to pass a bike rider at any cost.

So, to you in the white Subaru Outback (circa 2007), the blue Ford Ranger (current model), the bloke in the VW ute with the dual axle trailer, and the guy in the new Commodore who nearly pushed me off the single lane bridge: you are farktards. You are on holidays, slow down and have fun for farks sake and don’t spoil other peoples fun.

To all the nice NSW drivers who slowed down and even stopped to chat, thank you, you enriched the experience.

hetzjagd1 said :

ATTENTION:

If the speed l limit is 80 or lower and I need to drive in the right lane at 80 I am going to do so. If you have a problem with it? Well you have NO options. Want to tailgate me? I hope your reaction time is good and your insurance is up to date.

Blah, blah, TLDR.

You do realise there are people who use the road that have no regard for your car, your insurance or you life? That carry dangerous if not deadly implements? I pray it’s only you in the car should you be so unlucky to cross such a person, who follows you home and beats you to a pulp or worse.

You can protest your rights and their lack of options all you want while they kick your skull in, but ultimately it’s only going to serve a purpose when/if you’re able to speak again and make a statement to the Police, who in the off chance actually apprehend the perpetrator, gets a slap on the wrist, or a revolving AMC sleep over and from then on keeps a glaring eye out for you on the road, maybe to progress a sequel they’ve been writing around you as the antagonist.

Being courteous isn’t just about being courteous and car accidents aren’t the only thing to survive on the road these days. You’ve lived in a bubble for a while haven’t you?

It’s hilarious that the exact same arguments and logic comes out on different threads every 4 months or so. See you all in a few months!

Personally, after watching many Russian dash cam vids, I feel blessed to be around Canberran drivers. May I suggest the youtube channel “Car Crash Compilation 7”

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

Well that’s not what happens at all!

And what point am I meant to be making?

Moronic, hypocritical, bigoted cretin! You must harbour an extreme level of arrogance to talk the way you do. Shrill on some road rules but silent on the ones that make you look like a fool.

Gross Bigot.

Too childish to control your ego while driving = Should be retired from the road

tim_c said :

IrishPete said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

You don’t need to go to the Bay to see crap drivers. The other day I was turning right from Brisbane Av onto Wentworth Av at Barton, it’s two lanes with an unbroken white line so turning cars can merge safely. Just as I was about to merge, a white Commodore changed lanes into the right lane, forcing me and the three cars behind me to slam on the brakes to avoid her. She then travelled along in the right-hand lane until the big roundabout at Fyshwick, where she changed lanes again to the left.

She had NSW plates. Go figure.

A number of possibilities:
– she lives in the ACT and was driving someone else’s car (perhaps a work car, or her partner’s or another relative’s); NSW government cars have normal plates; and for some unknown reason they employ some ACT residents;
– she lives in Jerrabomberra (it’s not really part of NSW);
– the plates were stolen and it was actually an ACT-registered car;
– she has “gone native” from commuting to/through the ACT..
….
IP

Or, like many NSW drivers, just drive in the RH lane as a matter of course – perhaps because they’re used to having cars parked in the LH lane, as they tend to do in NSW instead of illegally parking on the nature strip.

Well, she did cross an unbroken white line to get into the right hand lane – is that a NSW habit too?
I learnt to drive in NSW and I’m pretty sure that was illegal.

Currently teaching my daughter how to drive. The first advice was: “Don’t drive like a Canberran. Remember to use your indicators, don’t hog the right lane and never tail gate.” She’s been learning to drive like a non-Canberran ever since. Very proud!

Pork Hunt said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

Well that’s not what happens at all!

And what point am I meant to be making?

And this is why I think you are an absolute idiot, amongst others here.
Let me spell it our for you slowly and accurately.
Yes, slowing to 20 or 30 km/h might make the person behind you overtake, but then the other lane has suddenly come to a complete stop when the person overtaking has cut into traffic traveling at 50km/h faster than you both! Just you try to pull out into, say Southern X drive, from any side street in a gap of a hundred meters or so and drive at 40 km/h. What will happen? You have just created a situation where everybody’s 100 milliseconds of reaction time in both lanes conglomerates into an eventual fender bender, just because you didn’t think the person behind you was keeping a two second gap.
This kind of self-righteous behavior is exactly why we have this post in its originality. Everyone thinks they are within their right to do whatever they want to keep everyone else in line legally. Yet, the more we exercise our “rights”, or in this case our “justification”, we see more of this kind of bickering, one sidedness and eventually accidents [read: crash caused by idiot].
Both sides of the argument have merit, but asserting that justification without applying what we are supposed to obey [the road rules] only brings us closer to Carmaggedon.
Please think of the children!

They never overtake me. When did I say that? 100% of the time they stop tailgating. I have only gotten that slow once. Normally it only takes me dropping 15-20 k.

Also, it’s not very Christian like to call other names when you are angry.

Yet, you do it all the time.

But porky worky, I never get angry.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

Well that’s not what happens at all!

And what point am I meant to be making?

And this is why I think you are an absolute idiot, amongst others here.
Let me spell it our for you slowly and accurately.
Yes, slowing to 20 or 30 km/h might make the person behind you overtake, but then the other lane has suddenly come to a complete stop when the person overtaking has cut into traffic traveling at 50km/h faster than you both! Just you try to pull out into, say Southern X drive, from any side street in a gap of a hundred meters or so and drive at 40 km/h. What will happen? You have just created a situation where everybody’s 100 milliseconds of reaction time in both lanes conglomerates into an eventual fender bender, just because you didn’t think the person behind you was keeping a two second gap.
This kind of self-righteous behavior is exactly why we have this post in its originality. Everyone thinks they are within their right to do whatever they want to keep everyone else in line legally. Yet, the more we exercise our “rights”, or in this case our “justification”, we see more of this kind of bickering, one sidedness and eventually accidents [read: crash caused by idiot].
Both sides of the argument have merit, but asserting that justification without applying what we are supposed to obey [the road rules] only brings us closer to Carmaggedon.
Please think of the children!

They never overtake me. When did I say that? 100% of the time they stop tailgating. I have only gotten that slow once. Normally it only takes me dropping 15-20 k.

Also, it’s not very Christian like to call other names when you are angry.

Yet, you do it all the time.

Solidarity said :

Attitudes like C&GN’s piss me right off. This is the sort of culture that the government has created with all of the propaganda bulls*** like spending millions of tax payer $ on “creeping” advertising campaigns that are only designed to justify the ridiculous policing of speed limits to generate revenue (and do nothing for road safety). And because we in this country are a bunch of dumb gullible sods, such propaganda has led the do gooders to believe that minor traffic law violators = murderers, which justifies the types of “heroic” attitudes that we see above.

Or, you could just yell SOCALIST GREEN AGENDA. 😀 did not mean to make you so angry, bro.

Attitudes like C&GN’s piss me right off. This is the sort of culture that the government has created with all of the propaganda bulls*** like spending millions of tax payer $ on “creeping” advertising campaigns that are only designed to justify the ridiculous policing of speed limits to generate revenue (and do nothing for road safety). And because we in this country are a bunch of dumb gullible sods, such propaganda has led the do gooders to believe that minor traffic law violators = murderers, which justifies the types of “heroic” attitudes that we see above.

goggles13 said :

wow this thread has blown out to 121 posts. it shows there is passion for driving, just a shame most people don’t have the same passion when they are driving and do the right thing by other road users.

that is, let people drive to their own capabilities, don’t impede their progress and be aware that some cars actually accelerate faster than others.

failing that, it is high time the licensing system in this country is overhauled.

Licensing won’t fix this. Enforcement is the problem, or lack of actually. Perhaps it is an inherent problem in society where everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong. Whatever the problem, it is individual and not generic so it isn’t so easy to fix. There will always be dimwits who ruin the rest of our lives.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

Well that’s not what happens at all!

And what point am I meant to be making?

And this is why I think you are an absolute idiot, amongst others here.
Let me spell it our for you slowly and accurately.
Yes, slowing to 20 or 30 km/h might make the person behind you overtake, but then the other lane has suddenly come to a complete stop when the person overtaking has cut into traffic traveling at 50km/h faster than you both! Just you try to pull out into, say Southern X drive, from any side street in a gap of a hundred meters or so and drive at 40 km/h. What will happen? You have just created a situation where everybody’s 100 milliseconds of reaction time in both lanes conglomerates into an eventual fender bender, just because you didn’t think the person behind you was keeping a two second gap.
This kind of self-righteous behavior is exactly why we have this post in its originality. Everyone thinks they are within their right to do whatever they want to keep everyone else in line legally. Yet, the more we exercise our “rights”, or in this case our “justification”, we see more of this kind of bickering, one sidedness and eventually accidents [read: crash caused by idiot].
Both sides of the argument have merit, but asserting that justification without applying what we are supposed to obey [the road rules] only brings us closer to Carmaggedon.
Please think of the children!

They never overtake me. When did I say that? 100% of the time they stop tailgating. I have only gotten that slow once. Normally it only takes me dropping 15-20 k.

Also, it’s not very Christian like to call other names when you are angry.

Pork Hunt said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

Well that’s not what happens at all!

And what point am I meant to be making?

You really are a shit for brains!
Source: my opinion.

That’s not very kind, porky worky

wow this thread has blown out to 121 posts. it shows there is passion for driving, just a shame most people don’t have the same passion when they are driving and do the right thing by other road users.

that is, let people drive to their own capabilities, don’t impede their progress and be aware that some cars actually accelerate faster than others.

failing that, it is high time the licensing system in this country is overhauled.

dtc said :

Except that the law says you cannot go faster than 90km/h even in the overtaking lane. So if you are going at the speed limit, and you legally cannot be driving any faster, how can it be complained about?

(of course, with a specific overtaking lane there is no reason to pull out to the other lane if you are, indeed, not overtaking)
Quite simple really.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Quite simple really.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

Well that’s not what happens at all!

And what point am I meant to be making?

And this is why I think you are an absolute idiot, amongst others here.
Let me spell it our for you slowly and accurately.
Yes, slowing to 20 or 30 km/h might make the person behind you overtake, but then the other lane has suddenly come to a complete stop when the person overtaking has cut into traffic traveling at 50km/h faster than you both! Just you try to pull out into, say Southern X drive, from any side street in a gap of a hundred meters or so and drive at 40 km/h. What will happen? You have just created a situation where everybody’s 100 milliseconds of reaction time in both lanes conglomerates into an eventual fender bender, just because you didn’t think the person behind you was keeping a two second gap.
This kind of self-righteous behavior is exactly why we have this post in its originality. Everyone thinks they are within their right to do whatever they want to keep everyone else in line legally. Yet, the more we exercise our “rights”, or in this case our “justification”, we see more of this kind of bickering, one sidedness and eventually accidents [read: crash caused by idiot].
Both sides of the argument have merit, but asserting that justification without applying what we are supposed to obey [the road rules] only brings us closer to Carmaggedon.
Please think of the children!

MrBigEars said :

Wow. The sooner those autonomous vehicles roll out, the better. At least the dick-waving will be kept to a minimum.

+1

The biggest flaw in modern car design is the driver.

LegalNut said :

RadioVK said :

LegalNut said :

Um, the first one only applies if the posted speed limit is over 80 kph or there is a sign directing people to do so. In Canberra this means that, on the vast majority of roads, it is perfectly legal to be in the right hand lane and not be overtaking.

Legal, yes. Intelligent, no.

just because you can, doesn’t mean you should…

Hardly. I don’t sit in the right hand lane because it’s fun. I will, however, drive in the right lane if it is the most convenient approach. Changing lanes to the left when I know that I am going to have to switch back a minute later unintelligent – especially when dealing with Canberra drivers who seem to think they should sit in the right hand lane speeding and not leave sufficient room to change lanes later.

At the end of the day this is a courtesy thing. If you aren’t going to be turning at any time soon then one should (not must) get in the left lane. However, if you are going to be turning within a minute or two and are going to go the speed limit up to that point, there is really nothing rude about sitting the right hand lane minding your own business.

Fair enough.

I’m not advocating that keeping left should be a rigidly enforced rule. What I am trying to say is that drivers should be more aware of the surrounding traffic and consider if they actually need to be in the right hand lane (overtaking, turning, etc.), and if not, keep left where it’s practical to do so.

And I agree completely with your comment about it being a courtesy thing. If more drivers were just a little more courteous to other drivers, we wouldn’t be having discussions like this…

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

Well that’s not what happens at all!

And what point am I meant to be making?

Yes that is exactly what often happens when inattentive drivers come upon an unexpected road obstruction.

And I have no idea what point you’re trying to be making, but I was assuming there was one seeing as it would be completely retarded to purposely put yourself at risk of a dangerous accident without one.

Sorry if I overestimated your thought processes, retarded it is.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

Well that’s not what happens at all!

And what point am I meant to be making?

You really are a shit for brains!
Source: my opinion.

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

Well that’s not what happens at all!

And what point am I meant to be making?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

Ah how does doing it gradually make a difference? Maybe to the person tailgating you, assuming they’re paying attention but what about the drivers further back?
What if there’s a few hundred metre gap and they’re not paying attention?

I’ve seen quite a few accidents like this, where someone has got on the brakes and people further back who weren’t watching have slammed into the back of the cars in front. Why would you purposely increase your risk of a dangerous accident just to make a point?

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

That’s why I do it gradually!

I think of everything, see.

dtc said :

tim_c said :

Just a question about #3, if I had a boat on a trailer and I wanted to use it – where would you suggest I learn to reverse it down a boat ramp if I’m not allowed to get in some practice on the Batemans Bay boat ramp?

Just practice before the Christmas to January rush. Wednesday 2pm in June is usually pretty quiet.

Sorry, I’ll be practicing driving in the snow then (and I can’t do that in the summer time!) 😉

My point is, we all start out somewhere, and the best way to learn is practice, practice, practice. Though I agree, we should to try not obstruct other people – even while we’re practicing.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Except for the fact that by slowing down significantly, you are greatly increasing the difference between your speed and the mean speed of traffic making someome hitting you at high speed far more likely. Didn’t really think your road policing through, did you?

watto23 said :

Yes i see some inconsiderate people not letting people in, but usually I have no issues merging at 100 on the parkway. I see people having lots of issues merging at 80 on the parkway.

Finally, someone else to realises the real cause of the problem!
“No Sir, I didn’t let you in on Adelaide Avenue because we were all travelling around 80 km/h and you seemed to want to try to merge at 50-60 km/h and, therefore, to let you in I’d have to stand on the brakes which would cause more problems.”

The biggest problem I have with trying to merge at 100 km/h onto the Parkway is that I tend to catch up to the person in front of me who is going down the merge ramp at 70-80 km/h.

dtc said :

Given that all of the dual lane roads between here and the coast are only dual lane when there is an overtaking lane and given that I am not aware of any extended (above 80km/h) dual lane roads around Batemans Bay – exactly what is the OP talking about when asking people to stay left.

And here I was wondering exactly the same thing.

dtc said :

For example, sitting at 90 km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 100km/h = bad….

Unless you’re overtaking cars in the left lane which are travelling at less than 90 km/h – as long as you are overtaking, it’s legal, even if you’re not travelling the speedlimit. Otherwise most trucks could never legally overtake slower trucks going up a hill.

tim_c said :

Just a question about #3, if I had a boat on a trailer and I wanted to use it – where would you suggest I learn to reverse it down a boat ramp if I’m not allowed to get in some practice on the Batemans Bay boat ramp?

Just practice before the Christmas to January rush. Wednesday 2pm in June is usually pretty quiet.

IrishPete said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

You don’t need to go to the Bay to see crap drivers. The other day I was turning right from Brisbane Av onto Wentworth Av at Barton, it’s two lanes with an unbroken white line so turning cars can merge safely. Just as I was about to merge, a white Commodore changed lanes into the right lane, forcing me and the three cars behind me to slam on the brakes to avoid her. She then travelled along in the right-hand lane until the big roundabout at Fyshwick, where she changed lanes again to the left.

She had NSW plates. Go figure.

A number of possibilities:
– she lives in the ACT and was driving someone else’s car (perhaps a work car, or her partner’s or another relative’s); NSW government cars have normal plates; and for some unknown reason they employ some ACT residents;
– she lives in Jerrabomberra (it’s not really part of NSW);
– the plates were stolen and it was actually an ACT-registered car;
– she has “gone native” from commuting to/through the ACT..
….
IP

Or, like many NSW drivers, just drive in the RH lane as a matter of course – perhaps because they’re used to having cars parked in the LH lane, as they tend to do in NSW instead of illegally parking on the nature strip.

IrishPete said :

neanderthalsis said :

Don’t get me started on cyclists, pedestrians, truckies and cab drivers either.

Oh go on, please. In 90+ comments I don’t think there’s been any (or much) mention of cyclists yet. That must be a record.

IP

Cyclists doing 90+ ?? Only down Mt Ainslie, surely.

wildturkeycanoe said :

…Hypothetically – What if you had a three lane road and the guy in front of you was doing 20km/h below the limit and continually changed lanes in front of you to block your way to pass him? There isn’t anything illegal about that but you can’t do anything to get past them either. There is illegal behavior and then there is courtesy. If they made rudeness an offense [and police were actually enforcing road rules] then I’m sure our roads would be a nicer place to drive.

Yes there is – it is illegal to unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or pedestrian (Rule #125). Good luck expecting anyone in Canberra to ever get fined for it though…. you’d need a Police presence for that to happen.

Just a question about #3, if I had a boat on a trailer and I wanted to use it – where would you suggest I learn to reverse it down a boat ramp if I’m not allowed to get in some practice on the Batemans Bay boat ramp?

neanderthalsis said :

Don’t get me started on cyclists, pedestrians, truckies and cab drivers either.

Oh go on, please. In 90+ comments I don’t think there’s been any (or much) mention of cyclists yet. That must be a record.

IP

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

magiccar9 said :

To those who threaten to hit the brakes if they’re uncomfortable with how close the person behind is traveling… Grow up, stop playing childish games and try focusing on the driving task at hand. You can actually be fined and held responsible if its proven you unnecessary caused the crash. With the increase in dashcam popularity I’d say its a pretty good chance that could happen.

Are you seriously advocating tailgating? One of the most dangerous things you can do on a road?

Idiot.

I have said many times before on this site. Tailgate me, no matter the circumstances and I slowly, slowly, slowly drop speed. I think lowest I have got to is 30 kph until the moron understood. They then overtook me, attempted to mouth of at me, I blew them a kiss and they shut up.

Aggressive, dangerous morons.

I hope you didn’t do this in the right hand lane and forced a myriad of people behind you to make sudden lane changes to avoid hitting your slow moving road-block. This action is infinitely more dangerous than someone riding your bumper, because it causes all the vehicles who are behind you to make sudden decisions. With the difference in everybody’s reaction time, that is asking for some fender bender. Had the tailgater and yourself continued on doing 80km/h without any unnecessary braking, traffic would keep flowing normally. If this was in the left lane, you were both still in the wrong, as going that slow is also an offense under the road rules:

125 Unreasonably obstructing drivers or pedestrians
(1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian.
Offence provision.
Note
Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle — see the definition of drive in the dictionary.
(2) For this rule, a driver does not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian only because:
(a) the driver is st opped in traffic; or
(b) the driver is driving more slowly than other vehicles
(unless the driver is driving abnormally slowly in the circumstances).
Example of a driver driving abnormally slowly
A driver driving at a speed of 20 kilometres per hour on a length of road to which a speed-limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies when there is no reason for the driver to drive at that speed on the length of road.

Just because you hate tailgaters and it is illegal, it doesn’t give you the right to take justice into your own hands and cause a disruption to the flow of traffic.

Passive, equally dangerous morons.

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

And (without an admission!) nobody can ever prove you didn’t think you saw a dog suddenly dart out onto the road. Some idiot driving carelessly behind you crashes into you? Their problem. Just watch what you say. Say nothing.

IrishPete said :

Solidarity said :

I swear this is thread is the exact same as a previous one, with the same incompetent drivers proving their incompetence…

I just take solace on the fact that while they are posting on here, they are not behind the wheel of a car…

I wouldn’t be so sure. When someone is hogging the wrong lane and driving too slowly, I often notice them using their phone. It explains their lack of awareness of other road users.

IP

I think the worst I ever saw was an interstate vehicle (maybe hire car) travelling slowly northwards on Kings Ave. The driver obviously didn’t trust the shotgun passenger as a navigator because the driver had a huge unfolded map spread over the steering wheel. The driver was concentrating more on the map than the road and I doubt that the driver could have seen much above the map.

Completely agree with this post.
Canberra drivers in the main, are completely hopeless.
Those that deny it are the worst.
You’re spoilt rotten and luckily the forces of nature are going to kill you off as the rest of the world comes here to play.

After spending many years driving in every state and territory as well as in a number of other countries, I’ve observed many thousands of drivers in all sorts of situations and conditions, so I feel I am in a good position to make this statement: some drivers are just crap, it has nothing to do with your place of birth, star sign, hair colour, sex, race, etc, some are just crap. Others are inconsiderate, blind, overly (and mistakenly) confident in their driving ability and sometimes drivers are just abnormally stupid.

Don’t get me started on cyclists, pedestrians, truckies and cab drivers either.

JC said :

dtc said :

For example, sitting at 90 km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 100km/h = bad.
Sitting at 90km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 90km/h = good and not to be complained about.

Doing 90 in a 90 zone in the right hand lane is ok, provided of course you are overtaking. If you are not overtaking the law says you should be in the left lane. So of course it can be complained about if you are not overtaking.

Except that the law says you cannot go faster than 90km/h even in the overtaking lane. So if you are going at the speed limit, and you legally cannot be driving any faster, how can it be complained about?

(of course, with a specific overtaking lane there is no reason to pull out to the other lane if you are, indeed, not overtaking)
Quite simple really.

Solidarity said :

I swear this is thread is the exact same as a previous one, with the same incompetent drivers proving their incompetence…

I just take solace on the fact that while they are posting on here, they are not behind the wheel of a car…

I wouldn’t be so sure. When someone is hogging the wrong lane and driving too slowly, I often notice them using their phone. It explains their lack of awareness of other road users.

IP

Solidarity said :

I swear this is thread is the exact same as a previous one, with the same incompetent drivers proving their incompetence…

I just take solace on the fact that while they are posting on here, they are not behind the wheel of a car…

I’m sure some of them are not above typing on their smartphones/tablets as they drive…

wildturkeycanoe said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

magiccar9 said :

To those who threaten to hit the brakes if they’re uncomfortable with how close the person behind is traveling… Grow up, stop playing childish games and try focusing on the driving task at hand. You can actually be fined and held responsible if its proven you unnecessary caused the crash. With the increase in dashcam popularity I’d say its a pretty good chance that could happen.

Are you seriously advocating tailgating? One of the most dangerous things you can do on a road?

Idiot.

I have said many times before on this site. Tailgate me, no matter the circumstances and I slowly, slowly, slowly drop speed. I think lowest I have got to is 30 kph until the moron understood. They then overtook me, attempted to mouth of at me, I blew them a kiss and they shut up.

Aggressive, dangerous morons.

I hope you didn’t do this in the right hand lane and forced a myriad of people behind you to make sudden lane changes to avoid hitting your slow moving road-block. This action is infinitely more dangerous than someone riding your bumper, because it causes all the vehicles who are behind you to make sudden decisions. With the difference in everybody’s reaction time, that is asking for some fender bender. Had the tailgater and yourself continued on doing 80km/h without any unnecessary braking, traffic would keep flowing normally. If this was in the left lane, you were both still in the wrong, as going that slow is also an offense under the road rules:

125 Unreasonably obstructing drivers or pedestrians
(1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian.
Offence provision.
Note
Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle — see the definition of drive in the dictionary.
(2) For this rule, a driver does not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian only because:
(a) the driver is st opped in traffic; or
(b) the driver is driving more slowly than other vehicles
(unless the driver is driving abnormally slowly in the circumstances).
Example of a driver driving abnormally slowly
A driver driving at a speed of 20 kilometres per hour on a length of road to which a speed-limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies when there is no reason for the driver to drive at that speed on the length of road.

Just because you hate tailgaters and it is illegal, it doesn’t give you the right to take justice into your own hands and cause a disruption to the flow of traffic.

Passive, equally dangerous morons.

As I have said 463355 times, it’s not justice, it’s safety. If a bell end is going to crash into me, it’s better done at low speed.

Solidarity said :

I swear this is thread is the exact same as a previous one, with the same incompetent drivers proving their incompetence…

….

Yes, it’s Roadhog Day.

I swear this is thread is the exact same as a previous one, with the same incompetent drivers proving their incompetence…

I just take solace on the fact that while they are posting on here, they are not behind the wheel of a car…

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

magiccar9 said :

To those who threaten to hit the brakes if they’re uncomfortable with how close the person behind is traveling… Grow up, stop playing childish games and try focusing on the driving task at hand. You can actually be fined and held responsible if its proven you unnecessary caused the crash. With the increase in dashcam popularity I’d say its a pretty good chance that could happen.

Are you seriously advocating tailgating? One of the most dangerous things you can do on a road?

Idiot.

I have said many times before on this site. Tailgate me, no matter the circumstances and I slowly, slowly, slowly drop speed. I think lowest I have got to is 30 kph until the moron understood. They then overtook me, attempted to mouth of at me, I blew them a kiss and they shut up.

Aggressive, dangerous morons.

I hope you didn’t do this in the right hand lane and forced a myriad of people behind you to make sudden lane changes to avoid hitting your slow moving road-block. This action is infinitely more dangerous than someone riding your bumper, because it causes all the vehicles who are behind you to make sudden decisions. With the difference in everybody’s reaction time, that is asking for some fender bender. Had the tailgater and yourself continued on doing 80km/h without any unnecessary braking, traffic would keep flowing normally. If this was in the left lane, you were both still in the wrong, as going that slow is also an offense under the road rules:

125 Unreasonably obstructing drivers or pedestrians
(1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian.
Offence provision.
Note
Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle — see the definition of drive in the dictionary.
(2) For this rule, a driver does not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian only because:
(a) the driver is st opped in traffic; or
(b) the driver is driving more slowly than other vehicles
(unless the driver is driving abnormally slowly in the circumstances).
Example of a driver driving abnormally slowly
A driver driving at a speed of 20 kilometres per hour on a length of road to which a speed-limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies when there is no reason for the driver to drive at that speed on the length of road.

Just because you hate tailgaters and it is illegal, it doesn’t give you the right to take justice into your own hands and cause a disruption to the flow of traffic.

Passive, equally dangerous morons.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

magiccar9 said :

To those who threaten to hit the brakes if they’re uncomfortable with how close the person behind is traveling… Grow up, stop playing childish games and try focusing on the driving task at hand. You can actually be fined and held responsible if its proven you unnecessary caused the crash. With the increase in dashcam popularity I’d say its a pretty good chance that could happen.

Are you seriously advocating tailgating? One of the most dangerous things you can do on a road?

Idiot.

I have said many times before on this site. Tailgate me, no matter the circumstances and I slowly, slowly, slowly drop speed. I think lowest I have got to is 30 kph until the moron understood. They then overtook me, attempted to mouth of at me, I blew them a kiss and they shut up.

Aggressive, dangerous morons.

Not advocating it by any means, simply making the comment that if someone IS tailgating you (also consider that you might thing it’s ‘too close’ but mightn’t actually be the case) don’t go out if your way to cause a crash. Just focus on your job of driving and let the guy behind worry about his. If you get yourself in a flap and start trying to make them back off using aggressive tactics you are actually the “aggressive dangerous moron”.

LegalNut said :

Hardly. I don’t sit in the right hand lane because it’s fun. I will, however, drive in the right lane if it is the most convenient approach. Changing lanes to the left when I know that I am going to have to switch back a minute later unintelligent – especially when dealing with Canberra drivers who seem to think they should sit in the right hand lane speeding and not leave sufficient room to change lanes later.

At the end of the day this is a courtesy thing. If you aren’t going to be turning at any time soon then one should (not must) get in the left lane. However, if you are going to be turning within a minute or two and are going to go the speed limit up to that point, there is really nothing rude about sitting the right hand lane minding your own business.

I think if you are going to turn then most people won’t have an issue. But the question is how early do you get in the right hand lane? I for example drive down Gininderra Drive quite regularly, during peak and off peak. As many would know there is a merge just before Coulter drive, after which it then opens up to two lanes again. Day in I see cars go through the merge and then right away get into the right hand lane regardless of what is in front of them. They are for the most part doing it because they are going to turn right, but the nearest right hand turn, Aikman Drive is still at this point about 2km away (yes I know there is one closer which is into the park next to the lake, but in 10 years of taking this route to work I have never once seen anyway turn in). However most cars that come from the west don’t turn into Aikman drive, if they were going to Belco they would turn at Coulter Drive, they are turning right at UC, Haydon Drive, Bruce or Gungahlin Drive or Moat Street all of which are much further down the road.

Oh and Gininderra Drive is on of the 80km/h roads in the ACT that has keep left unless overtaking signs on it.

Let’s just reorder this a little…

hetzjagd1 said :

…Some of you want to talk about common courtesy yet appear to lack an understanding of politeness.

hetzjagd1 said :

Pfft oh well. Enjoy the view of the back end of my car and try not to rage yourselves into a premature heart attack. Keep your eye on my break lights too, you just never know what’s down the road eh? I could use a shiny new bumper…

What was that you were saying about common courtesy and understanding politeness?

(5) hold a constant 100kph instead of doing 80 thru the corners and 120 on the straights so no one can pass . e.g. Kings Hwy

Wow. The sooner those autonomous vehicles roll out, the better. At least the dick-waving will be kept to a minimum.

magiccar9 said :

To those who threaten to hit the brakes if they’re uncomfortable with how close the person behind is traveling… Grow up, stop playing childish games and try focusing on the driving task at hand. You can actually be fined and held responsible if its proven you unnecessary caused the crash. With the increase in dashcam popularity I’d say its a pretty good chance that could happen.

Are you seriously advocating tailgating? One of the most dangerous things you can do on a road?

Idiot.

I have said many times before on this site. Tailgate me, no matter the circumstances and I slowly, slowly, slowly drop speed. I think lowest I have got to is 30 kph until the moron understood. They then overtook me, attempted to mouth of at me, I blew them a kiss and they shut up.

Aggressive, dangerous morons.

hetzjagd1 said :

ATTENTION:

If the speed l limit is 80 or lower and I need to drive in the right lane at 80 I am going to do so. If you have a problem with it? Well you have NO options. Want to tailgate me? I hope your reaction time is good and your insurance is up to date.

You might ask why am I in the right lane doing 80 when I could be in the left lane. Probably because MULTIPLE people are driving at 75 in the left lane. Driving in Canberra isn’t freaking Le Mans, I have better things to concentrate on then driving back and forth between the right and left lane overtaking people. The other reason is that I need to turn right within the next 2 or 3 minutes.

How the hell are you going to tell me that it is just common courtesy that I stay in the left lane – so you can break the law to overtake me? For what? Leave on time or realize that driving to work, the shops or a mate’s place should never be a matter of emergency or making up time.

Wake up to yourselves. It is not about me being selfish and imposing my choice on others. It is about SHARING the road. If you’re so intent on driving beyond the speed limit and breaking the law, just drive in the shoulder lane or on the nature strip for all I care.

Ok regardless of the law you still think I’m a selfish idiot. Well fine then lets just accept we disagree once and for all and move on. There is NOTHING you can do about it so how about you realize that you’re just whining about something you can’t control. You have no influence over those of us who are just trying to get about sensibly. Have a cry about it even, you’ll feel much better afterwards Speed Racer.

Interestingly, the UK has just brought in a f***wit law for people like you.
While not technically breaking laws, the spirit of the driving code was being needlessly tested to a large extent, especially by lane hoggers and people with frustrated sex lives.
The amount of these citizens who were getting assaulted for being purposely antagonistic towards other drivers was becoming a real problem and becoming a general problem, so to assist the wellbeing of these semi-evolved people and to prompt them to read the roadsigns, they’ve started issuing them with on the spot fines so they can protect themselves by being less antagonistic in future.

It takes 10 seconds to check mirrors and blind spot, indicate and pull into the overtaking lane before making a right turn, not “2 to 3 minutes”.
If you need 2 to 3 minutes it’s probably because the right hand lane is full of…*dawdlers like yourself !

*Unless you’re from France, then I apologise.

To those who threaten to hit the brakes if they’re uncomfortable with how close the person behind is traveling… Grow up, stop playing childish games and try focusing on the driving task at hand. You can actually be fined and held responsible if its proven you unnecessary caused the crash. With the increase in dashcam popularity I’d say its a pretty good chance that could happen.

farq said :

hetzjagd1 purposely provoking people on the road is not smart.

most people will just get upset, some people will pull you out of the car at the next set of lights and bust your lip.

Just farqing try…

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Solidarity said :

hetzjagd1 said :

Thank you switch, that is exactly why I make sure I am in the lane I need to be in to turn in advance of doing so. This is as opposed to the drivers that decide at the last minute where they are going and create a dangerous situation. My driving habits are in the interest of safety for myself and others first and then courtesy to other drivers where I can is a close second after that.

Maybe to help douse the flames on this one a little bit I should add that of course if I am in the right lane and someone approaches or drives up my ass, as is typical, I will move into the left lane to let them pass and stay there until I get to the next driver going 75 or less in an 80. I’m not about to obstruct the right lane out of spite, but I’m not about to speed up and risk a fine (even if only momentarily) to do so. Again, I’m not interested in driving back and forth from lane to lane driving around people on a daily commute. Yes lobster switching lanes isn’t the equivalent to driving in Le Mans, oh you got me good there. My argument just falls apart with that taken away doesn’t it? Obviously my point is driving is not meant to be a race.

Holden Caulfield and lobster – I fail to see any significant argument from you two. Am I correct in thinking that what your replies amount to is “on the topic of sharing the roads, we’re just as entitled to speed and break the law as you are to drive lawfully”? If so you can argue that until the cows come home but you would be better off taking it up with the lawmakers and any police that might pull you over and see how far that gets you. Otherwise feel free to try again to make me understand why you’re anything but effectively bullies on the road and/or justifying your unlawful behavior. How about you take a drive with an instructor and try driving like you are suggesting and see if they would stamp you to get your license.

One of the reasons I’m at my wits end on this topic is every day I travel down the Yara Glen and Adelaide Avenue where the speed limit is 80. I stick to the left lane yet the vast majority of drivers want to drive at 90 or greater on that road. During busier times it is not uncommon for me to be doing 80 and there are a number of people passing me on the right lane which is fine of course. While that is happening I have other drivers approaching my car from behind at speed and sit there closely until the many other cars in the right lane have moved on through. I also encounter the 75 or less drivers in the left lane who I attempt to pass on the right at the speed limit which is a slow affair and inevitably results in other drivers approaching at speed and not allowing a safe stopping distance even though it should be clear what I’m trying to do.

I’m sick of people who want to speed and impose that on myself and other drivers who are doing the right thing.

Impeding traffic flow and being a general arrogant douchebag creates a much bigger traffic risk than keeping it moving and being courtious does. Much bigger.

Explain?

Traffic flow does not equal leave right open to speeders. If you are doing 80 in the 80 zone in the right hand lane, you are not affecting traffic flow at all.

Being a speeding bell end creates one of the biggest traffic risks there are.

What?

I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not, but if traffic is flowing at 85, and you’re doing 80, yes, you are impeding traffic flow. Traffic flow doesn’t always mean speed limit, in bad conditions it may be 65, or on a Canberran day, 95 whilst drinking Latte and scolding the kids.

RadioVK said :

LegalNut said :

Um, the first one only applies if the posted speed limit is over 80 kph or there is a sign directing people to do so. In Canberra this means that, on the vast majority of roads, it is perfectly legal to be in the right hand lane and not be overtaking.

Legal, yes. Intelligent, no.

just because you can, doesn’t mean you should…

Hardly. I don’t sit in the right hand lane because it’s fun. I will, however, drive in the right lane if it is the most convenient approach. Changing lanes to the left when I know that I am going to have to switch back a minute later unintelligent – especially when dealing with Canberra drivers who seem to think they should sit in the right hand lane speeding and not leave sufficient room to change lanes later.

At the end of the day this is a courtesy thing. If you aren’t going to be turning at any time soon then one should (not must) get in the left lane. However, if you are going to be turning within a minute or two and are going to go the speed limit up to that point, there is really nothing rude about sitting the right hand lane minding your own business.

To the selfish clowns who see no problem with them clogging up the right-hand lane, and refuse to move left.. you may be blocking a car carrying:
– a kid going into anaphylaxis (heard about it)
– a passenger having a heart attack (heard about it)
– a woman in labour (happened to me)

And pulling out of the way of a responding ambulance, fire engine or police car only after it enters is visible in your rearview mirror is much less ideal than not being in their way in the first place.

Common sense – who named it that when it isn’t common?

IP

TallBoy said :

Wow. I never quite realised how much of a monumental wanker C&GN is until just now. What an attitude.

You’re new here?

IP

hetzjagd1 said :

Pfft oh well. Enjoy the view of the back end of my car and try not to rage yourselves into a premature heart attack. Keep your eye on my break lights too, you just never know what’s down the road eh? I could use a shiny new bumper. Again take your “regardless if someone is speeding or not, you are impeding the flow of traffic by not letting them” argument to the lawmakers or the police that pull you over.

And for gods sake, some of you nitpickers…instead of my saying I move into the right lane for 2-3 minutes lets say I do it for 1 minute then. I was estimating it and I got it wrong, I’m sorry. I would have hoped you addressed the underlying point of that example which was that I need to make the next right turn. Perhaps it feels like 2-3 minutes to me cause I have all these drivers with pregnant women and kids with peanut allergies on my ass whenever I dare venture into the right lane.

The resorting to name calling and assumptions as to peoples professions? suggests to me that if that is how you arc up over an internet discussion then some of you could well be the people I have a problem with out on the road. Some of you want to talk about common courtesy yet appear to lack an understanding of politeness.

There’s no point repeating myself or clarifying any more of the split hairs. I’m bowing out now as I’ve seen enough riotact discussions to know some of you are just in this to argue for the sake of it or make quite an effort to subtly, or sometimes not so subtly, troll and play the devil’s advocate. Which is not to say all of you aren’t making a sincere argument to your case but as the saying goes “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference”.

It took you this long to figure the last bit out? Doesn’t matter who you are or what you say on RA, someone is out there to getcha…..

hetzjagd1 purposely provoking people on the road is not smart.

most people will just get upset, some people will pull you out of the car at the next set of lights and bust your lip.

To the selfish clowns who see no problem with them clogging up the right-hand lane, and refuse to move left.. you may be blocking a car carrying:
– a kid going into anaphylaxis (heard about it)
– a passenger having a heart attack (heard about it)
– a woman in labour (happened to me)

Your sanctimonious twaddle about “you’re breaking the law going 85kms in an 80 zone” and “I’m allowed to go as fast as I like in the right-hand lane” and “nyah nyah nyah, I’m a giganto-douche whose passive-aggressive lane-blocking is indicative of my revenge against the rest of you for my failing to rise higher than APS4” just doesn’t cut the mustard.

Get out of the way, stay out of the way, and realise that keeping the right-hand lane clear helps keep traffic flowing smoothly – which is safety exemplified.

Heard of a ambulance? In fact, driving to hospital instead of calling a ambulance just proves how little you know about safety or even rational thought.

RE: a woman in labour, it’s not like in the movies. I have never heard of a 30 minute labour. No need to put baby and mother at risk because you refuse to educate yourself.

TallBoy said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Pork Hunt said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Porky worky, if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane then there is no issue.

The speed limit is not the effing issue, just keep left, is it that hard?

But why? Are you planning on driving dangerously on the way to the coast? Why so much rage for peeps using the right hand lane if the are doing the speed limit?

Why drive in the right hand lane if you don’t need to overtake anyone? So you can be a self-appointed Safety Joe who stops everyone else from going 5 kms over the legal limit?

Wow. I never quite realised how much of a monumental wanker C&GN is until just now. What an attitude.

Care to elaborate? Or are you another who enjoys putting others at risk by speeding?

Solidarity said :

hetzjagd1 said :

Thank you switch, that is exactly why I make sure I am in the lane I need to be in to turn in advance of doing so. This is as opposed to the drivers that decide at the last minute where they are going and create a dangerous situation. My driving habits are in the interest of safety for myself and others first and then courtesy to other drivers where I can is a close second after that.

Maybe to help douse the flames on this one a little bit I should add that of course if I am in the right lane and someone approaches or drives up my ass, as is typical, I will move into the left lane to let them pass and stay there until I get to the next driver going 75 or less in an 80. I’m not about to obstruct the right lane out of spite, but I’m not about to speed up and risk a fine (even if only momentarily) to do so. Again, I’m not interested in driving back and forth from lane to lane driving around people on a daily commute. Yes lobster switching lanes isn’t the equivalent to driving in Le Mans, oh you got me good there. My argument just falls apart with that taken away doesn’t it? Obviously my point is driving is not meant to be a race.

Holden Caulfield and lobster – I fail to see any significant argument from you two. Am I correct in thinking that what your replies amount to is “on the topic of sharing the roads, we’re just as entitled to speed and break the law as you are to drive lawfully”? If so you can argue that until the cows come home but you would be better off taking it up with the lawmakers and any police that might pull you over and see how far that gets you. Otherwise feel free to try again to make me understand why you’re anything but effectively bullies on the road and/or justifying your unlawful behavior. How about you take a drive with an instructor and try driving like you are suggesting and see if they would stamp you to get your license.

One of the reasons I’m at my wits end on this topic is every day I travel down the Yara Glen and Adelaide Avenue where the speed limit is 80. I stick to the left lane yet the vast majority of drivers want to drive at 90 or greater on that road. During busier times it is not uncommon for me to be doing 80 and there are a number of people passing me on the right lane which is fine of course. While that is happening I have other drivers approaching my car from behind at speed and sit there closely until the many other cars in the right lane have moved on through. I also encounter the 75 or less drivers in the left lane who I attempt to pass on the right at the speed limit which is a slow affair and inevitably results in other drivers approaching at speed and not allowing a safe stopping distance even though it should be clear what I’m trying to do.

I’m sick of people who want to speed and impose that on myself and other drivers who are doing the right thing.

Impeding traffic flow and being a general arrogant douchebag creates a much bigger traffic risk than keeping it moving and being courtious does. Much bigger.

Explain?

Traffic flow does not equal leave right open to speeders. If you are doing 80 in the 80 zone in the right hand lane, you are not affecting traffic flow at all.

Being a speeding bell end creates one of the biggest traffic risks there are.

dtc said :

For example, sitting at 90 km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 100km/h = bad.
Sitting at 90km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 90km/h = good and not to be complained about.

Doing 90 in a 90 zone in the right hand lane is ok, provided of course you are overtaking. If you are not overtaking the law says you should be in the left lane. So of course it can be complained about if you are not overtaking.

Quite simple really.

hetzjagd1 said :

That it is, but isn’t sharing two way? Doesn’t sound like you are sharing very much.

Antagonist said :

At first I was amazed that I would agree with JC on something, but the opportunity to split hairs has presented itself. The above applies to 80 zones also (rather than over 80). Once upon a time there were 2 demerit points attached to this one as well.

Nope, I am right, the rule is OVER 80, so doesn’t include 80km/h, unless of course there is a sign saying it does apply.

Source Australian Road Rules, rule 130.

130 Keeping to the left on a multi-lane road
(1) This rule applies to a driver driving on a multi-lane road if:
(a) the speed-limit applying to the driver for the length of road where the driver is driving is over 80 kilometres per hour; or
(b) a keep left unless overtaking sign applies to the length of road where the driver is driving.

Now mentioned it on here before, but on Gininderra Drive east bound just past Kingsford Smith Drive there is a keep left unless overtaking sign, and west bound half way up the hill from Moat Street (though may have recently been removed) there is also a keep left sign. There are no end signs which means the zones end where the roads end. So that means Gininderra Drive is more or less a keep left zone, despite the lack of repeater signs after each intersection for most of its length. Not many keep left though, no surprises.

The same used to apply to the 80km/h section of William Hovell Drive, but those signs, west bound at least have recently disappeared.

Other people make mistakes.

+1

Oooh, hadn’t seen that. Good one so +1 also

pepmeup said :

The worst thing Canberra drivers do on the way to the cost is:

drive at 80km per hour on the curved single lane areas of the Kings Highway, then as soon as its a straight overtaking lane they speed up to 120km per hour. Im pretty sure its not on purpose they just feel safer on the straight road with a wide gap between them and on coming traffic. but they drive people crazy, cars fly past them at 140km+ just trying to get by.

Agree.

Although the young woman I drove past coming home last week who I was stuck behind for most of the way from the top of the Clyde to Braidwood who never got above 65km/h was a trifle annoying. They I had lunch at braidwood and an ice cream, hopped back in the car and passed her again just outside Bungendore.

I’ve given up worrying about how long it takes. If I’m driving down at night, then getting there 20 minutes earlier makes no difference. If during the day, same thing (I get to the beach 20 minutes later!). Driving home, well who wants to rush home?

Here is a tip – learn to love podcasts. There are some wonderfully entertaining (or, if you are into that kind of thing, instructive or educational) podcasts around and you often want to listen to them rather than arrive. Or a talking book

Pfft oh well. Enjoy the view of the back end of my car and try not to rage yourselves into a premature heart attack. Keep your eye on my break lights too, you just never know what’s down the road eh? I could use a shiny new bumper. Again take your “regardless if someone is speeding or not, you are impeding the flow of traffic by not letting them” argument to the lawmakers or the police that pull you over.

And for gods sake, some of you nitpickers…instead of my saying I move into the right lane for 2-3 minutes lets say I do it for 1 minute then. I was estimating it and I got it wrong, I’m sorry. I would have hoped you addressed the underlying point of that example which was that I need to make the next right turn. Perhaps it feels like 2-3 minutes to me cause I have all these drivers with pregnant women and kids with peanut allergies on my ass whenever I dare venture into the right lane.

The resorting to name calling and assumptions as to peoples professions? suggests to me that if that is how you arc up over an internet discussion then some of you could well be the people I have a problem with out on the road. Some of you want to talk about common courtesy yet appear to lack an understanding of politeness.

There’s no point repeating myself or clarifying any more of the split hairs. I’m bowing out now as I’ve seen enough riotact discussions to know some of you are just in this to argue for the sake of it or make quite an effort to subtly, or sometimes not so subtly, troll and play the devil’s advocate. Which is not to say all of you aren’t making a sincere argument to your case but as the saying goes “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference”.

Holden Caulfield said :

While we’re talking about sharing the roads, it’s timely to consider this message (if you’ve not seen it already).

Other people make mistakes.

+1

While we’re talking about sharing the roads, it’s timely to consider this message (if you’ve not seen it already).

Other people make mistakes.

caf said :

I don’t think it’s deliberate bastardry.

I do. Seen it too often.

The worst thing Canberra drivers do on the way to the cost is:

drive at 80km per hour on the curved single lane areas of the Kings Highway, then as soon as its a straight overtaking lane they speed up to 120km per hour. Im pretty sure its not on purpose they just feel safer on the straight road with a wide gap between them and on coming traffic. but they drive people crazy, cars fly past them at 140km+ just trying to get by.

TinyTank said :

Speaking of overtaking, why does the general flow of traffic speed up on overtaking lanes?

Example- heading down the coast 2 weekends ago, Hilux towing a boat travelling down the Clyde (after the sharp bendy bits) doing 80km/h. That’s fine, totally acceptable. I kept a non-tailgating distance until the overtaking lane when I sped up, and continued to speed up to overtake, until I was way behind the Hilux+boat who were now doing >120km/h around the long sweeping RH bend. At the end of the overtaking lane I was again behind Hilux+boat who are back to their cruising speed of 80km/h.

Then the same thing on the way home with a P-Plater in a WRX doing 10km/h under the speed limit, until we reach the overtaking lane where he/she sped up so no one could safely overtake.

WHY?!

I suspect it’s because they are driving exactly as fast as they feel comfortable, which in the case of those particular drivers is significantly faster on the wider and typically straighter overtaking sections. They’re just not aware enough of the other drivers around them, I don’t think it’s deliberate bastardry.

There is of course the issue not all speedometers are exactly the same. so too people who think they are doing 80km/h one is actually doing 77 and the other is actually doing 83. Thus the slower car thinks the other is doing 86.

It is just courtesy to move back into the left lane. I never have problems of people tailgating me in the right lane unless they are driving like a complete wanker, which happens on rare occasions. I’ve also never had issues of being able to merge or move across lanes, but i adjust my driving to the traffic conditions. In peak hour I have no problem with people moving into the right lane reasonably early, but I drive along say Drakeford drive which is 3 lanes after 7pm and people sit in the right lane and drive through 3 sets of lights before turning. And undertaking is dangerous, which is why its illegal, but what option does one have with a person in the right lane doing 75?

I saw the lane hog thing in Sydney driving home with 4 lanes and people all just sitting in their own comfort lane doing all sorts of different speeds, with cars undertaking and overtaking, some speeding some were not. This kind of driving causes accidents.

Compared to the German autobahns we have a long way to go, I saw drivers doing 200 still pulling over to the right and only changing lanes when needing too. They don’t sit in the fast lane hogging it.

Changing lanes is skill and is not dangerous!
Don’t get me started on merging. The number of people who complain about people not letting them in…. Yes i see some inconsiderate people not letting people in, but usually I have no issues merging at 100 on the parkway. I see people having lots of issues merging at 80 on the parkway.

If only we had retesting of licenses and they were harder to get, because its clear that there are incompetent drivers who think they are good drivers and never speed, but unable to negotiate roundabouts and lane merges with any kind of skill. The speeders get caught, the incompetent generally keep driving thinking they are good drivers.

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Pork Hunt said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Porky worky, if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane then there is no issue.

The speed limit is not the effing issue, just keep left, is it that hard?

But why? Are you planning on driving dangerously on the way to the coast? Why so much rage for peeps using the right hand lane if the are doing the speed limit?

Why drive in the right hand lane if you don’t need to overtake anyone? So you can be a self-appointed Safety Joe who stops everyone else from going 5 kms over the legal limit?

Wow. I never quite realised how much of a monumental wanker C&GN is until just now. What an attitude.

hetzjagd1 said :

…Holden Caulfield and lobster – I fail to see any significant argument from you two…

That’s because, by and large, I agree with you in regards to sharing the road etc. You’ll see in my previous reply that was the bit I put right at the start.

I just found it mildly amusing that the basic tenet of your response was a massive contradiction.

Similarly, unless in a traffic jam or some other similar delay, I’ve never found it necessary to stay in a right hand lane for the sole reason that I’ll be turning right in 2-3 minutes (in this case +/-3km). Despite what you’ve imagined to yourself it’s not that hard to change lanes when you’ve got a few kms to do so.

If someone else wants to speed, let them. Yes, I understand that’s not necessarily an appropriate or responsible approach, but it can often be the best approach, I find. Get out of the way and don’t become involved in someone else’s problem.

Self-righteous behaviour, as defensible as it may be, often serves to do more harm than good by inflaming a situation that need not be inflamed.

And then getting on here to preach about sharing the road while actually saying: “Stuff you all I’m right and you’re wrong and there’s nothing you can do about it so suck it up!” That’s not really being a considerate road user, that’s just acting like a dick.

hetzjagd1 said :

Thank you switch, that is exactly why I make sure I am in the lane I need to be in to turn in advance of doing so. This is as opposed to the drivers that decide at the last minute where they are going and create a dangerous situation. My driving habits are in the interest of safety for myself and others first and then courtesy to other drivers where I can is a close second after that.

Maybe to help douse the flames on this one a little bit I should add that of course if I am in the right lane and someone approaches or drives up my ass, as is typical, I will move into the left lane to let them pass and stay there until I get to the next driver going 75 or less in an 80. I’m not about to obstruct the right lane out of spite, but I’m not about to speed up and risk a fine (even if only momentarily) to do so. Again, I’m not interested in driving back and forth from lane to lane driving around people on a daily commute. Yes lobster switching lanes isn’t the equivalent to driving in Le Mans, oh you got me good there. My argument just falls apart with that taken away doesn’t it? Obviously my point is driving is not meant to be a race.

Holden Caulfield and lobster – I fail to see any significant argument from you two. Am I correct in thinking that what your replies amount to is “on the topic of sharing the roads, we’re just as entitled to speed and break the law as you are to drive lawfully”? If so you can argue that until the cows come home but you would be better off taking it up with the lawmakers and any police that might pull you over and see how far that gets you. Otherwise feel free to try again to make me understand why you’re anything but effectively bullies on the road and/or justifying your unlawful behavior. How about you take a drive with an instructor and try driving like you are suggesting and see if they would stamp you to get your license.

One of the reasons I’m at my wits end on this topic is every day I travel down the Yara Glen and Adelaide Avenue where the speed limit is 80. I stick to the left lane yet the vast majority of drivers want to drive at 90 or greater on that road. During busier times it is not uncommon for me to be doing 80 and there are a number of people passing me on the right lane which is fine of course. While that is happening I have other drivers approaching my car from behind at speed and sit there closely until the many other cars in the right lane have moved on through. I also encounter the 75 or less drivers in the left lane who I attempt to pass on the right at the speed limit which is a slow affair and inevitably results in other drivers approaching at speed and not allowing a safe stopping distance even though it should be clear what I’m trying to do.

I’m sick of people who want to speed and impose that on myself and other drivers who are doing the right thing.

Impeding traffic flow and being a general arrogant douchebag creates a much bigger traffic risk than keeping it moving and being courtious does. Much bigger.

LegalNut said :

Um, the first one only applies if the posted speed limit is over 80 kph or there is a sign directing people to do so. In Canberra this means that, on the vast majority of roads, it is perfectly legal to be in the right hand lane and not be overtaking.

Legal, yes. Intelligent, no.

just because you can, doesn’t mean you should…

Thank you switch, that is exactly why I make sure I am in the lane I need to be in to turn in advance of doing so. This is as opposed to the drivers that decide at the last minute where they are going and create a dangerous situation. My driving habits are in the interest of safety for myself and others first and then courtesy to other drivers where I can is a close second after that.

Maybe to help douse the flames on this one a little bit I should add that of course if I am in the right lane and someone approaches or drives up my ass, as is typical, I will move into the left lane to let them pass and stay there until I get to the next driver going 75 or less in an 80. I’m not about to obstruct the right lane out of spite, but I’m not about to speed up and risk a fine (even if only momentarily) to do so. Again, I’m not interested in driving back and forth from lane to lane driving around people on a daily commute. Yes lobster switching lanes isn’t the equivalent to driving in Le Mans, oh you got me good there. My argument just falls apart with that taken away doesn’t it? Obviously my point is driving is not meant to be a race.

Holden Caulfield and lobster – I fail to see any significant argument from you two. Am I correct in thinking that what your replies amount to is “on the topic of sharing the roads, we’re just as entitled to speed and break the law as you are to drive lawfully”? If so you can argue that until the cows come home but you would be better off taking it up with the lawmakers and any police that might pull you over and see how far that gets you. Otherwise feel free to try again to make me understand why you’re anything but effectively bullies on the road and/or justifying your unlawful behavior. How about you take a drive with an instructor and try driving like you are suggesting and see if they would stamp you to get your license.

One of the reasons I’m at my wits end on this topic is every day I travel down the Yara Glen and Adelaide Avenue where the speed limit is 80. I stick to the left lane yet the vast majority of drivers want to drive at 90 or greater on that road. During busier times it is not uncommon for me to be doing 80 and there are a number of people passing me on the right lane which is fine of course. While that is happening I have other drivers approaching my car from behind at speed and sit there closely until the many other cars in the right lane have moved on through. I also encounter the 75 or less drivers in the left lane who I attempt to pass on the right at the speed limit which is a slow affair and inevitably results in other drivers approaching at speed and not allowing a safe stopping distance even though it should be clear what I’m trying to do.

I’m sick of people who want to speed and impose that on myself and other drivers who are doing the right thing.

lobster said :

hetzjagd1 said :

ATTENTION:

If the speed l limit is 80 or lower and I need to drive in the right lane at 80 I am going to do so. If you have a problem with it? Well you have NO options. Want to tailgate me? I hope your reaction time is good and your insurance is up to date.

You might ask why am I in the right lane doing 80 when I could be in the left lane. Probably because MULTIPLE people are driving at 75 in the left lane. Driving in Canberra isn’t freaking Le Mans, I have better things to concentrate on then driving back and forth between the right and left lane overtaking people. The other reason is that I need to turn right within the next 2 or 3 minutes.

How the hell are you going to tell me that it is just common courtesy that I stay in the left lane – so you can break the law to overtake me? For what? Leave on time or realize that driving to work, the shops or a mate’s place should never be a matter of emergency or making up time.

Wake up to yourselves. It is not about me being selfish and imposing my choice on others. It is about SHARING the road. If you’re so intent on driving beyond the speed limit and breaking the law, just drive in the shoulder lane or on the nature strip for all I care.

Ok regardless of the law you still think I’m a selfish idiot. Well fine then lets just accept we disagree once and for all and move on. There is NOTHING you can do about it so how about you realize that you’re just whining about something you can’t control. You have no influence over those of us who are just trying to get about sensibly. Have a cry about it even, you’ll feel much better afterwards Speed Racer.

Lol. Why? Because Fu#k you! That’s why!

I’m going to do it and you can’t stop me?

Common courtesy? F#ck you again!

Its not about sharing the road it’s about you driving exactly how I want you to!

All of you should be less selfish and consider me!

Lol. Yes Le Mans is exactly like driving in Canberra. I’m not making exaggerated examples!
Blah blah blah self entitled blah blah something speed racer…

Just move right if not overtaking. If someone is doung 75 in the other lane the over take and then move back into the left lane. I learnt how to do this on my Ls… I didn’t find it as hard as you seem to

Not this s*** again…

dtc said :

Given that all of the dual lane roads between here and the coast are only dual lane when there is an overtaking lane and given that I am not aware of any extended (above 80km/h) dual lane roads around Batemans Bay – exactly what is the OP talking about when asking people to stay left.

For example, sitting at 90 km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 100km/h = bad.
Sitting at 90km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 90km/h = good and not to be complained about.

Because ask me how I know you can get a speeding ticket overtaking someone when travelling at 95km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 90km/h.

Speaking of overtaking, why does the general flow of traffic speed up on overtaking lanes?

Example- heading down the coast 2 weekends ago, Hilux towing a boat travelling down the Clyde (after the sharp bendy bits) doing 80km/h. That’s fine, totally acceptable. I kept a non-tailgating distance until the overtaking lane when I sped up, and continued to speed up to overtake, until I was way behind the Hilux+boat who were now doing >120km/h around the long sweeping RH bend. At the end of the overtaking lane I was again behind Hilux+boat who are back to their cruising speed of 80km/h.

Then the same thing on the way home with a P-Plater in a WRX doing 10km/h under the speed limit, until we reach the overtaking lane where he/she sped up so no one could safely overtake.

WHY?!

lobster said :

hetzjagd1 said :

ATTENTION:

If the speed l limit is 80 or lower and I need to drive in the right lane at 80 I am going to do so. If you have a problem with it? Well you have NO options. Want to tailgate me? I hope your reaction time is good and your insurance is up to date.

You might ask why am I in the right lane doing 80 when I could be in the left lane. Probably because MULTIPLE people are driving at 75 in the left lane. Driving in Canberra isn’t freaking Le Mans, I have better things to concentrate on then driving back and forth between the right and left lane overtaking people. The other reason is that I need to turn right within the next 2 or 3 minutes.

How the hell are you going to tell me that it is just common courtesy that I stay in the left lane – so you can break the law to overtake me? For what? Leave on time or realize that driving to work, the shops or a mate’s place should never be a matter of emergency or making up time.

Wake up to yourselves. It is not about me being selfish and imposing my choice on others. It is about SHARING the road. If you’re so intent on driving beyond the speed limit and breaking the law, just drive in the shoulder lane or on the nature strip for all I care.

Ok regardless of the law you still think I’m a selfish idiot. Well fine then lets just accept we disagree once and for all and move on. There is NOTHING you can do about it so how about you realize that you’re just whining about something you can’t control. You have no influence over those of us who are just trying to get about sensibly. Have a cry about it even, you’ll feel much better afterwards Speed Racer.

Lol. Why? Because Fu#k you! That’s why!

I’m going to do it and you can’t stop me?

Common courtesy? F#ck you again!

Its not about sharing the road it’s about you driving exactly how I want you to!

All of you should be less selfish and consider me!

Lol. Yes Le Mans is exactly like driving in Canberra. I’m not making exaggerated examples!
Blah blah blah self entitled blah blah something speed racer…

Just move right if not overtaking. If someone is doung 75 in the other lane the over take and then move back into the left lane. I learnt how to do this on my Ls… I didn’t find it as hard as you seem to

Good one lobster, +1 from me. Maybe some people need to do their Ls again.

hetzjagd1 said :

ATTENTION:

If the speed l limit is 80 or lower and I need to drive in the right lane at 80 I am going to do so. If you have a problem with it? Well you have NO options. Want to tailgate me? I hope your reaction time is good and your insurance is up to date.

You might ask why am I in the right lane doing 80 when I could be in the left lane. Probably because MULTIPLE people are driving at 75 in the left lane. Driving in Canberra isn’t freaking Le Mans, I have better things to concentrate on then driving back and forth between the right and left lane overtaking people. The other reason is that I need to turn right within the next 2 or 3 minutes.

How the hell are you going to tell me that it is just common courtesy that I stay in the left lane – so you can break the law to overtake me? For what? Leave on time or realize that driving to work, the shops or a mate’s place should never be a matter of emergency or making up time.

Wake up to yourselves. It is not about me being selfish and imposing my choice on others. It is about SHARING the road. If you’re so intent on driving beyond the speed limit and breaking the law, just drive in the shoulder lane or on the nature strip for all I care.

Ok regardless of the law you still think I’m a selfish idiot. Well fine then lets just accept we disagree once and for all and move on. There is NOTHING you can do about it so how about you realize that you’re just whining about something you can’t control. You have no influence over those of us who are just trying to get about sensibly. Have a cry about it even, you’ll feel much better afterwards Speed Racer.

Lol. Why? Because Fu#k you! That’s why!

I’m going to do it and you can’t stop me?

Common courtesy? F#ck you again!

Its not about sharing the road it’s about you driving exactly how I want you to!

All of you should be less selfish and consider me!

Lol. Yes Le Mans is exactly like driving in Canberra. I’m not making exaggerated examples!
Blah blah blah self entitled blah blah something speed racer…

Just move right if not overtaking. If someone is doung 75 in the other lane the over take and then move back into the left lane. I learnt how to do this on my Ls… I didn’t find it as hard as you seem to

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Pork Hunt said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Porky worky, if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane then there is no issue.

The speed limit is not the effing issue, just keep left, is it that hard?

But why? Are you planning on driving dangerously on the way to the coast? Why so much rage for peeps using the right hand lane if the are doing the speed limit?

Why drive in the right hand lane if you don’t need to overtake anyone? So you can be a self-appointed Safety Joe who stops everyone else from going 5 kms over the legal limit?

Only since I started posting here 😉

Holden Caulfield said :

Are you telling us you need around 3km to successfully manage a simple lane change?

Given the usual courtesy drivers show about letting you in, I’d say yes.

hetzjagd1 said :

and of course my first line in my comment above should actually read as “If the speed limit is 80 or lower and I need to drive in the right lane at the posted speed limit then I am going to do so”

I get your point and agree completely that we need to share the road and with that comes compromise. Yet, at the same time you tell us if we don’t like the way you drive then suck it because there’s nothing we can do about it! Gee, you really are so considerate, thank you. I shall follow your example, I think. It’s such a great example after all.

Also, while you’re busy not sharing the right hand lane at 80km/h because you need to turn right in the next 2-3 minutes you will have travelled 2.6-3.9km.

Are you telling us you need around 3km to successfully manage a simple lane change?

Oh boy, wowee!

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Interestingly, I don’t know a single jurisdiction which claims to have the best drivers in Australia. If you go to Brisbane, everyone will tell you that Queensland drivers are the worst. Sydneysiders complain incessantly about Sydney drivers. Melbourne drivers say “avoid Victorian plates”.

Canberra suffers from having so many people who have learnt to drive elsewhere, with all the peculiarities and quirks that are local to particular areas, then come here and get on our big open roads and go crazy.

And yet nearly everyone thinks they are a good driver.

Something doesn’t add up.

1. You are an ACT driver.
2. Seen interstate drivers attempting to “form one lane” or negotiate Vernon Circle?

Given that all of the dual lane roads between here and the coast are only dual lane when there is an overtaking lane and given that I am not aware of any extended (above 80km/h) dual lane roads around Batemans Bay – exactly what is the OP talking about when asking people to stay left.

For example, sitting at 90 km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 100km/h = bad.
Sitting at 90km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 90km/h = good and not to be complained about.

Because ask me how I know you can get a speeding ticket overtaking someone when travelling at 95km/h in an overtaking lane when the speed limit is 90km/h.

And this morning on the front page of WAToday.com.au, you’ll see an op ed about why Perth drivers are the worst.

Stupid generalities are stupid.

Antagonist said :

No mention of merging? I call Troll.

JC said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Porky worky, if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane then there is no issue.

If the speed limit of the road is over 80 and you are not overtaking then it is against the road rules.

At first I was amazed that I would agree with JC on something, but the opportunity to split hairs has presented itself. The above applies to 80 zones also (rather than over 80). Once upon a time there were 2 demerit points attached to this one as well.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummmm, can you please tell me who makes a crust off fishing with boats you put in the water off a boat ramp?

Some charter operators and fishing guides, prawners, abalone divers to name a few.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummmm, can you please tell me who makes a crust off fishing with boats you put in the water off a boat ramp?

I was speaking with a lobster fisherman at the Mossy Point boat ramp a couple of years ago and he told me he had two pet peeves at Xmas time – his lobsters being poached and boat owners who couldn’t reverse a car with a trailer on it.

His lobsters?

Yes. Once they enter the cray pot, they are ‘his’ lobsters. Taking lobsters from a cray pot belonging to a licenced professional is theft/poaching.

Ah gotcha, apologies, I thought you were trying to pull the only locals should be allowed to fish.

Isn’t prawn fishing done at nights?

Also, if they don’t like busyness or incompetence at certain times of year then maybe new oroffesion?

ScienceRules said :

vaguely said :

ScienceRules said :

Well I hope you feel better after your rant. Assuming you’re at all interested in actual statistics rather than your rage fuelled anecdotes, DIRD’s numbers show road deaths in 2013 for the ACT at 1.83 per 100,000 people and in NSW at 4.58.

I think you’ll find that Canberrans can drive on wide, (relatively) well surfaced roads with low speed limits.
Once we get out of the territory onto NSW roads Canberrans can’t handle it and crash and burn.
Couldn’t be bothered finding a better link, this will do:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/why-are-canberrans-dying-on-nsw-roads-20131207-2yyjp.html

Living in Canberra has made me a worse driver.

Yeah evidence be damned eh? The main point of my missive was that all these observations are subjective and anecdotal. People drive differently every day they go out for a variety of reasons and this pigeon-holing of driving behaviour into tribal “ACT” vs “NSW” or whatever serves no purpose.

+2

and of course my first line in my comment above should actually read as “If the speed limit is 80 or lower and I need to drive in the right lane at the posted speed limit then I am going to do so”

ATTENTION:

If the speed l limit is 80 or lower and I need to drive in the right lane at 80 I am going to do so. If you have a problem with it? Well you have NO options. Want to tailgate me? I hope your reaction time is good and your insurance is up to date.

You might ask why am I in the right lane doing 80 when I could be in the left lane. Probably because MULTIPLE people are driving at 75 in the left lane. Driving in Canberra isn’t freaking Le Mans, I have better things to concentrate on then driving back and forth between the right and left lane overtaking people. The other reason is that I need to turn right within the next 2 or 3 minutes.

How the hell are you going to tell me that it is just common courtesy that I stay in the left lane – so you can break the law to overtake me? For what? Leave on time or realize that driving to work, the shops or a mate’s place should never be a matter of emergency or making up time.

Wake up to yourselves. It is not about me being selfish and imposing my choice on others. It is about SHARING the road. If you’re so intent on driving beyond the speed limit and breaking the law, just drive in the shoulder lane or on the nature strip for all I care.

Ok regardless of the law you still think I’m a selfish idiot. Well fine then lets just accept we disagree once and for all and move on. There is NOTHING you can do about it so how about you realize that you’re just whining about something you can’t control. You have no influence over those of us who are just trying to get about sensibly. Have a cry about it even, you’ll feel much better afterwards Speed Racer.

true dat…..they do know how to use roundabouts though!! (most other cities aren’t so great with them)….I do also find Canberra drivers to be less inconsiderate/pushy.

vaguely said :

ScienceRules said :

Well I hope you feel better after your rant. Assuming you’re at all interested in actual statistics rather than your rage fuelled anecdotes, DIRD’s numbers show road deaths in 2013 for the ACT at 1.83 per 100,000 people and in NSW at 4.58.

I think you’ll find that Canberrans can drive on wide, (relatively) well surfaced roads with low speed limits.
Once we get out of the territory onto NSW roads Canberrans can’t handle it and crash and burn.
Couldn’t be bothered finding a better link, this will do:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/why-are-canberrans-dying-on-nsw-roads-20131207-2yyjp.html

Living in Canberra has made me a worse driver.

Yeah evidence be damned eh? The main point of my missive was that all these observations are subjective and anecdotal. People drive differently every day they go out for a variety of reasons and this pigeon-holing of driving behaviour into tribal “ACT” vs “NSW” or whatever serves no purpose.

Want to see some bad driving? Ride a motorbike.

Black Commodore sedan this morning, right hand lane of Adelaide Avenue, doing 60 with the drivers door not fully closed, i’m looking at you.

MrBigEars said :

Red-light running is the offence I see most in Canberra.

That was the thing that I noticed most when I first moved here. In Sydney, you’d be history running red lights like they do here.

Interestingly, I don’t know a single jurisdiction which claims to have the best drivers in Australia. If you go to Brisbane, everyone will tell you that Queensland drivers are the worst. Sydneysiders complain incessantly about Sydney drivers. Melbourne drivers say “avoid Victorian plates”.

Canberra suffers from having so many people who have learnt to drive elsewhere, with all the peculiarities and quirks that are local to particular areas, then come here and get on our big open roads and go crazy.

vaguely said :

Living in Canberra has made me a worse driver.

Me too, my ability to make quick judgments has suffered. The problem is I get too complacent and find myself zoning out a little. I’m trying hard to improve though, by actively obeying all the rules and trying to identify all the hazards.

ScienceRules said :

Well I hope you feel better after your rant. Assuming you’re at all interested in actual statistics rather than your rage fuelled anecdotes, DIRD’s numbers show road deaths in 2013 for the ACT at 1.83 per 100,000 people and in NSW at 4.58.

They made no comment on trailer reversing onto boat ramps.

The point is you see people behaving badly on the road all the time and you’re just filtering out non-ACT plates in this case. It’s called “confirmation bias”. At this time of the year the coast is crammed with ACT drivers so naturally there will be more crap driving as well as (ignored) good manners and safe driving by Canberrans.

http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/road_deaths_australia_monthly_bulletins.aspx

But we’ve partly outsourced our accidents to NSW. ( From here: )

Red-light running is the offence I see most in Canberra.

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

You don’t need to go to the Bay to see crap drivers. The other day I was turning right from Brisbane Av onto Wentworth Av at Barton, it’s two lanes with an unbroken white line so turning cars can merge safely. Just as I was about to merge, a white Commodore changed lanes into the right lane, forcing me and the three cars behind me to slam on the brakes to avoid her. She then travelled along in the right-hand lane until the big roundabout at Fyshwick, where she changed lanes again to the left.

She had NSW plates. Go figure.

A number of possibilities:
– she lives in the ACT and was driving someone else’s car (perhaps a work car, or her partner’s or another relative’s); NSW government cars have normal plates; and for some unknown reason they employ some ACT residents;
– she lives in Jerrabomberra (it’s not really part of NSW);
– the plates were stolen and it was actually an ACT-registered car;
– she has “gone native” from commuting to/through the ACT..

Or we see what we want or expect to see (confirmation bias if you want, though I think that term is thrown around to easily).

I agree, I see lots of NSW-plated cars behaving badly in the ACT, perhaps for some of the above reasons, or perhaps just because there are bad drivers in both jurisdictions.

I try to drive the same on both sides of the border, but it’s quite possible that in the heavier traffic and different conditions (how about those crazy “turn right from any lane” roundabouts? in fact, why not just allow people to drive anticlockwise too?) may subtly affect my driving. And maybe I’m in a hurry to get out of the ACT at the end of the day.

IP

LegalNut said :

Um, the first one only applies if the posted speed limit is over 80 kph or there is a sign directing people to do so. In Canberra this means that, on the vast majority of roads, it is perfectly legal to be in the right hand lane and not be overtaking.

When did we stop caring about common courtesy and start being wankers because it was legal?

ScienceRules said :

Well I hope you feel better after your rant. Assuming you’re at all interested in actual statistics rather than your rage fuelled anecdotes, DIRD’s numbers show road deaths in 2013 for the ACT at 1.83 per 100,000 people and in NSW at 4.58.

I think you’ll find that Canberrans can drive on wide, (relatively) well surfaced roads with low speed limits.
Once we get out of the territory onto NSW roads Canberrans can’t handle it and crash and burn.
Couldn’t be bothered finding a better link, this will do:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/why-are-canberrans-dying-on-nsw-roads-20131207-2yyjp.html

Living in Canberra has made me a worse driver.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Pork Hunt said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Porky worky, if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane then there is no issue.

The speed limit is not the effing issue, just keep left, is it that hard?

But why? Are you planning on driving dangerously on the way to the coast? Why so much rage for peeps using the right hand lane if the are doing the speed limit?

Why drive in the right hand lane if you don’t need to overtake anyone? So you can be a self-appointed Safety Joe who stops everyone else from going 5 kms over the legal limit?

Mordd said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Queenslander sticking in the right lane, DELIBERATELY, in a 60 zone, doing 50km/h next to the car in the left lane also doing 50km/h. Continued to maintain the speed of the car in left lane when they sped up or slowed down. Flashing lights and sounding horn to move them along only resulted in being flicked “the bird”.
In total contrast, I noticed on Belconnen Way a Victorian driver who courteously merged left in a 80 zone to allow faster vehicles to go past. Miracles do happen.

FYI sounding your horn at someone because you think they are going too slow is illegal itself, it is to warn of dangers or hazards, not because you are annoyed at a car doing 50 in a 60 zone. Just pointing out if you had been fined for honking at that car, the police would totally be in the right fyi.

Sorry for the double post but I thought I’d justify my response with this also
Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Australian Road Rules
Incorporation 2013 (No 1)
Rule 224 Using horns and similar warning devices
A driver must not use, or allow to be used, a horn, or similar warning device, fitted to or in
the driver’s vehicle unless:
(a) it is necessary to use the horn, or warning device, to warn other road users or animals of the approach or position of the vehicle; or
(b) the horn, or warning device,
is being used as part of an anti-theft device, or an alcohol interlock device, fitted to the vehicle

So, justifiably and legally I can use my horn to warn the car in the right hand lane that I am approaching from behind, to alert them to my vehicle’s position. If they do not seem to respond to the horn, then I may feel the need to repeat this until I am acknowledged by some sort of indication that they have seen or heard me approaching.

You don’t get out too often do you Probuscus?

Drive the Monaro Highway in the snow season and see who the drongos are, they are from all over but mainly NSW.

Down on the Sapphire Coast? Victorians at this time of year (I grew up with it, they do all the same things you described).

Fraser Island? just about everybody from all over the country.

Canberra drivers are not unique.

I get to travel a bit for work and the two pieces of roads that I have had issues with are the Melbourne freeways and the Brisbane freeways, the trucks seem to think its OK to sit a foot and a half off your rear bumper.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Proboscus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummmm, can you please tell me who makes a crust off fishing with boats you put in the water off a boat ramp?

The Indigenous fishos and lobster fishermen. I’m not sure about the oyster farmers but the other two use large tinnies from the local boat ramps and beaches.

I was speaking with a lobster fisherman at the Mossy Point boat ramp a couple of years ago and he told me he had two pet peeves at Xmas time – his lobsters being poached and boat owners who couldn’t reverse a car with a trailer on it.

His lobsters?

If they are in his pots they are his lobsters 😉

Mordd said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Queenslander sticking in the right lane, DELIBERATELY, in a 60 zone, doing 50km/h next to the car in the left lane also doing 50km/h. Continued to maintain the speed of the car in left lane when they sped up or slowed down. Flashing lights and sounding horn to move them along only resulted in being flicked “the bird”.
In total contrast, I noticed on Belconnen Way a Victorian driver who courteously merged left in a 80 zone to allow faster vehicles to go past. Miracles do happen.

FYI sounding your horn at someone because you think they are going too slow is illegal itself, it is to warn of dangers or hazards, not because you are annoyed at a car doing 50 in a 60 zone. Just pointing out if you had been fined for honking at that car, the police would totally be in the right fyi.

Yes, like there are police on our roads…..
I know the horn rule, the flashing headlight rule and I know the tailgating rule. When people consistently [and I mean absolutely every time you go on the road] make your journey unpleasant because of their self-righteous attitude, knowing it’s not illegal but does annoy everyone behind them], my patience wears to the point that these people need to be told to pull their head in.
Yet, some knob with a seriously dumb attitude can do as they please whilst being a total jerk about it and everyone else behind them has to just put up with it?
Hypothetically – What if you had a three lane road and the guy in front of you was doing 20km/h below the limit and continually changed lanes in front of you to block your way to pass him? There isn’t anything illegal about that but you can’t do anything to get past them either. There is illegal behavior and then there is courtesy. If they made rudeness an offense [and police were actually enforcing road rules] then I’m sure our roads would be a nicer place to drive.

It’s all about attitude, and consideration of fellow motorists – both of which, IMHO, appear worse in Canberra because of the great road system (as opposed to the resurfacing debate).

Just check out how many cars are parked in Disabled parking bays in Canberra – many of which do not have a voucher displayed. This is even more common when its hot or the shops are busy. People who park in Disabled parking spaces with out an entitlement are beneath contempt – they are just lazy, ignorant and selfish sons of bitches with a very bad social responsibility attitude.

With that sort of attitude, is it no wonder there is such inconsiderate driving on our roads too. At the end of the day, unfortunately, I don’t think many people give a stuff these days.

I wish the Police and City Rangers would book those illegal parkers more, it doesn’t seem to be heavily or consistently policed these days.

No mention of merging? I call Troll.

JC said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Porky worky, if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane then there is no issue.

If the speed limit of the road is over 80 and you are not overtaking then it is against the road rules.

At first I was amazed that I would agree with JC on something, but the opportunity to split hairs has presented itself. The above applies to 80 zones also (rather than over 80). Once upon a time there were 2 demerit points attached to this one as well.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummmm, can you please tell me who makes a crust off fishing with boats you put in the water off a boat ramp?

Some charter operators and fishing guides, prawners, abalone divers to name a few.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummmm, can you please tell me who makes a crust off fishing with boats you put in the water off a boat ramp?

I was speaking with a lobster fisherman at the Mossy Point boat ramp a couple of years ago and he told me he had two pet peeves at Xmas time – his lobsters being poached and boat owners who couldn’t reverse a car with a trailer on it.

His lobsters?

Yes. Once they enter the cray pot, they are ‘his’ lobsters. Taking lobsters from a cray pot belonging to a licenced professional is theft/poaching.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Queenslander sticking in the right lane, DELIBERATELY, in a 60 zone, doing 50km/h next to the car in the left lane also doing 50km/h. Continued to maintain the speed of the car in left lane when they sped up or slowed down. Flashing lights and sounding horn to move them along only resulted in being flicked “the bird”.
In total contrast, I noticed on Belconnen Way a Victorian driver who courteously merged left in a 80 zone to allow faster vehicles to go past. Miracles do happen.

FYI sounding your horn at someone because you think they are going too slow is illegal itself, it is to warn of dangers or hazards, not because you are annoyed at a car doing 50 in a 60 zone. Just pointing out if you had been fined for honking at that car, the police would totally be in the right fyi.

Um, the first one only applies if the posted speed limit is over 80 kph or there is a sign directing people to do so. In Canberra this means that, on the vast majority of roads, it is perfectly legal to be in the right hand lane and not be overtaking.

Proboscus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummmm, can you please tell me who makes a crust off fishing with boats you put in the water off a boat ramp?

The Indigenous fishos and lobster fishermen. I’m not sure about the oyster farmers but the other two use large tinnies from the local boat ramps and beaches.

I was speaking with a lobster fisherman at the Mossy Point boat ramp a couple of years ago and he told me he had two pet peeves at Xmas time – his lobsters being poached and boat owners who couldn’t reverse a car with a trailer on it.

His lobsters?

Pork Hunt said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Porky worky, if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane then there is no issue.

The speed limit is not the effing issue, just keep left, is it that hard?

But why? Are you planning on driving dangerously on the way to the coast? Why so much rage for peeps using the right hand lane if the are doing the speed limit?

Why anyone would go to the coast in January is beyond comprehension. Too many ACT cars and drivers down there I am told.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummmm, can you please tell me who makes a crust off fishing with boats you put in the water off a boat ramp?

The Indigenous fishos and lobster fishermen. I’m not sure about the oyster farmers but the other two use large tinnies from the local boat ramps and beaches.

I was speaking with a lobster fisherman at the Mossy Point boat ramp a couple of years ago and he told me he had two pet peeves at Xmas time – his lobsters being poached and boat owners who couldn’t reverse a car with a trailer on it.

Queenslander sticking in the right lane, DELIBERATELY, in a 60 zone, doing 50km/h next to the car in the left lane also doing 50km/h. Continued to maintain the speed of the car in left lane when they sped up or slowed down. Flashing lights and sounding horn to move them along only resulted in being flicked “the bird”.
In total contrast, I noticed on Belconnen Way a Victorian driver who courteously merged left in a 80 zone to allow faster vehicles to go past. Miracles do happen.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Porky worky, if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane then there is no issue.

The speed limit is not the effing issue, just keep left, is it that hard?

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. Nowhere in the South Coast or wider NSW has anyone ever been guilty of any of the atrocities as mentioned. It’s only Canberrans who are inconsiderate knobs.

Ok (/sarcasm), yep, I’ve seen these behaviours (except for the boating stuff, but I’ll take your word for that) while travelling to and from the coast. I’ve also seen NSW plated drivers talking on mobiles, sitting in the right lane when not overtaking, and any number of crap driving behaviours while travelling to the coast.

Canberrans believe Canberrans are the worst drivers in the country, but that’s probably because they’ve never lived in QLD…

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Porky worky, if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane then there is no issue.

If the speed limit of the road is over 80 and you are not overtaking then it is against the road rules.

Well I hope you feel better after your rant. Assuming you’re at all interested in actual statistics rather than your rage fuelled anecdotes, DIRD’s numbers show road deaths in 2013 for the ACT at 1.83 per 100,000 people and in NSW at 4.58.

They made no comment on trailer reversing onto boat ramps.

The point is you see people behaving badly on the road all the time and you’re just filtering out non-ACT plates in this case. It’s called “confirmation bias”. At this time of the year the coast is crammed with ACT drivers so naturally there will be more crap driving as well as (ignored) good manners and safe driving by Canberrans.

http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/road_deaths_australia_monthly_bulletins.aspx

You don’t need to go to the Bay to see crap drivers. The other day I was turning right from Brisbane Av onto Wentworth Av at Barton, it’s two lanes with an unbroken white line so turning cars can merge safely. Just as I was about to merge, a white Commodore changed lanes into the right lane, forcing me and the three cars behind me to slam on the brakes to avoid her. She then travelled along in the right-hand lane until the big roundabout at Fyshwick, where she changed lanes again to the left.

She had NSW plates. Go figure.

I think the points from the OP don’t even scratch the surface on how bad we are. The million dollar question is… Who’s to blame for this?

Porky worky, if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane then there is no issue.

Ummmm, can you please tell me who makes a crust off fishing with boats you put in the water off a boat ramp?

A lot of NSW drivers are d***heads, too. For proof, just drive to Sydney and watch. And let’s not get started on Victorians…

Regarding #1, C&GN, the floor is all yours.

since we see this behaviour on the roads every day it is no surprise that Canberra drivers behave like this everywhere. The only thing I would add is their complete inability to understand how to drive on back roads, specifically those without centre line markings. Your spotless toorak tractor can handle getting near the edge of the tarmac, you don’t need to stay in the centre so that you force everyone else off the road.

There’s 2 factors at work here:

1) Interstate drivers who aren’t as familiar with the surroundings, and are out of their usual element.
2) Interstate numberplates which are a focal point for stereotyping behaviour as they stand out as ‘different’.

You will find these 2 factors common to any area and group of drivers, the same as you will find morons and bad drivers anywhere.

ACT Gov should sell tickets to watch the trailer reversing antics at the Mugga Lane tip.

Incompetence rampant! But a hoot to watch – whilst patiently waiting your turn 🙂

Oh gosh, No 1. It used to be the convention that on foot and behind the wheel, you keep left unless passing. And on the roads, it’s the law. But everyday theres drivers in the right lane, not needing to make a right turn, just hogging the right lane doing below the speed limit on dual carriage way.

Also annoying is when they do it at lights, slow truck takes the left lane, slow car takes right lane. On the green light traffic is stuffed. No one going anywhere.

Interesting with the exception of number 3 (not owing a boat I have never noticed it myself), all the other driving issues you seem to have you see on the road on a daily basis. ACT plates, NSW plates, Victorian, you name it. Maybe you seem to think it is just an ACT driver thing because you were down the south coast when half the population down there is from the ACT so it just stood out more rather than just being an ACT thing.

You also forgot one, speeding though road works. Driving on the M5 just today hardly anyone slowed to the 80km/h limit. But yeah they were mostly NSW drivers so guess it doesn’t count.

Drove back to Wollongong this past weekend, partner did a tricky reverse park in a tight restaurant carpark, where of course all patrons were sitting by looking on. First person who comments as we hop out, “I was a bit worried for a second there when I saw the ACT number plates”. Go figure.