Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands? (and not so much in Canberra?)

Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands? (and not so much in Canberra?)

Better weather.

BicycleCanberra said :

While I could write a long and boring list of comparisons that has nothing to do with density or terrain it is best that you watch these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn2s6ax_7TM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22XM8-YTC98

In the 1950’s the cycling rate in England was about the same as the Netherlands. Even though most of England in dense many still use the car as proffered form of transport

What I learnt about by watching that first youtube link was that it is possible to ride a bike wearing normal day clothes and nobody wore a helmet either.. bike riding has already become more appealing on those two accounts..

When my friends and family from outside of Canberra come to visit, they are amazed by all the cyclists here. The pushbike users in Canberra are vastly higher than anywhere else I have lived or visited in Australia. My understanding is that we also boast the largest number of cycleways for a city of our size.

I had to vastly change my driving habits since moving here too, I am always looking for pushbike riders on the on-road paths and when changing lanes, but in the past it never really was on top of my mind.

I am not a regular cyclist, but I do go for a ride occasionally, and get a lot of enjoyment from it. My average recreational ride is about 12 to 15 km. But I do baulk at the hills around northwest and western Belconnen. I can’t deal with those, I am, after all a fatty boombah, and never recovered properly after several months of illness in 2012. But I will get back up there eventually, and be able to enjoy it more again.

Just for the record, I didn’t say any of the quotes attributed to me below. They were made by aussielyn in comment #28 (the one after mine).

tim_c said :

howeph said :

Cyclists’ bell to signal when behind pedestrians as a courtesy.

Isn’t that a bit like blasting your car horn and/or flashing your high beams at slower moving traffic in front of you? I always thought courtesy was to overtake only when safe to do so, and not sound your ‘warning device’ to tell slower traffic to get out of your way.

howeph said :

Cycling is not for the speeding lycra-clad types we have here.

You don’t have to wear lycra to cycle in Canberra either. In fact, I always wear ‘normal’ (civilian) clothes when I cycle, and I see many others similarly attired. I’m not sure quite where your assumption comes from that to be allowed to cycle in Canberra you must first go out and buy expensive brand-name cycling-specific lycra and race around like an professional athlete.

howeph said :

Motorists and cyclists are not in conflict.

They wouldn’t be here either if they could both learn to share the road space.

howeph said :

A cycle has a function and the basic cheap version will not be stolen.

That’s not what my Dad said after a visit to Holland – he said so many bikes are stolen, then ditched in the canal when the thief has finished with it, that they have to clean out all the dumped bicycles from the canals very regularly.

howeph said :

Both cyclists and motorists obey the rules

We should do that here!

Nightshade said :

Kalfour said :

Which Canberra are you guys talking about? It’s really flat here. Hills exist, but they’re hardly super long or super steep.

I don’t know which hills everyone else is talking about, but the hill on William Hovell Drive leading up towards Higgins feels pretty long and steep in a car, let alone on a bike.

LIES!!!

Canberra *is* Amsterdam, how many times does it have to be said?!

😛

The inconsiderate drivers are just as inconsiderate to motor cyclists too and anyone with an L plate! So cyclists shouldn’t feel too alone 🙂

That said I don’t ride anywhere, not because of fitness, but because of time. Same reason I don’t catch public transport. I’m more than willing to catch public transport, but there are no options that don’t take 1hr plus each way. That 1hr a day saved means i have more time for everything else.

That is also my issue with the proposed light rail. Its good for getting commuters that live on a dense transport corridor to work. But not so good at getting commuters to and from town centres quickly, which to me would be of greater benefit. Tuggeranong to City could be done in 15 minutes on a dedicated busway, or light rail line with no stops, or just a single stop in Woden. I could drive,bike/bus to the town centre then get around canberra quickly.

gasman said :

Bike parking is pretty.

Some times, but it can also be ugly. Some nice examples of both here

Kalfour said :

I’ve noticed some comments about how hilly Canberra is.

Which Canberra are you guys talking about? It’s really flat here. Hills exist, but they’re hardly super long or super steep.

I know parts of Calwell and Fadden are quite steep.

Calwell Primary school is on Downard street and when my oldest boys went there the school discouraged kids from riding to school because it was considered too dangerous. Downard is not the worst in Calwell but it is a hard slog for most people.

I used to find it would take as long for me to ride from the Hyperdome to the bottom of Downard as it did to ride up that street.

switch said :

I have cycled in Amsterdam. Some observations:

The on road stuff is just as scary as here, more so since the bike lanes are far more crowded. I often wonder why even bother with onroad lanes here since I usually see about one bike a day using them.

Amsterdam cyclists do not stop for red lights. Ever. If they had to cope with our level of car use, there would be a lot more dead cyclists there.

Motor bikes and push bikes share the lanes. Dunno if that is meant to happen but it does.

LIES!!!

Cycling in Amsterdam is nirvana and the experiences there can be directly applied to Canberra. It’s exactly exactly the same! Geddit!!!

howeph said :

Cyclists’ bell to signal when behind pedestrians as a courtesy.

Isn’t that a bit like blasting your car horn and/or flashing your high beams at slower moving traffic in front of you? I always thought courtesy was to overtake only when safe to do so, and not sound your ‘warning device’ to tell slower traffic to get out of your way.

howeph said :

Cycling is not for the speeding lycra-clad types we have here.

You don’t have to wear lycra to cycle in Canberra either. In fact, I always wear ‘normal’ (civilian) clothes when I cycle, and I see many others similarly attired. I’m not sure quite where your assumption comes from that to be allowed to cycle in Canberra you must first go out and buy expensive brand-name cycling-specific lycra and race around like an professional athlete.

howeph said :

Motorists and cyclists are not in conflict.

They wouldn’t be here either if they could both learn to share the road space.

howeph said :

A cycle has a function and the basic cheap version will not be stolen.

That’s not what my Dad said after a visit to Holland – he said so many bikes are stolen, then ditched in the canal when the thief has finished with it, that they have to clean out all the dumped bicycles from the canals very regularly.

howeph said :

Both cyclists and motorists obey the rules

We should do that here!

Leon said :

tim_c said :

Leon said :

You have to be a hero to ride a bike in Canberra.

Really? Because 10km is just soooooooo far…

I used to commute nearly 11km to high school, and then 18km to university.

Tim_c, you’re a hero!

Apparently, and all this time I didn’t even know it! It obviously doesn’t take much to be a hero in the eyes of some people…

Kalfour said :

Which Canberra are you guys talking about? It’s really flat here. Hills exist, but they’re hardly super long or super steep.

I don’t know which hills everyone else is talking about, but the hill on William Hovell Drive leading up towards Higgins feels pretty long and steep in a car, let alone on a bike.

Corrected link from previous post: bamboo bike in Amsterdam

aussielyn said :

I lived in Amsterdam, for nearly five years, a while ago. The difference is culture, cost, density, safety, distance and typography…..

+1

We have just returned from a 3 week cycling holiday in Holland and Belgium, and I agree with everything ausielyn says.

I would like to add 2 more important reasons why cycling is more popular in Holland than Canberra:

1. A very heavy commitment to cycling infrastructure by the Dutch government.

There are cycle paths (“fietspad”) everywhere, even in the countryside.

Trains have special carriages for bikes, and taking a bike on a train is free and reserved.

Train and bus stations have HUGE bike parking facilities. This one is 3 stories high. Even in the countryside, there is more bicycle parking than car parking.

At every bike path or road crossing, there is a map-referenced location beacon that lets you know where you are and how to get where you want to go. There are 30,000 of these scattered across Holland.

Bike parking is pretty.

Stairs have special ramps to take your bike up and down. Not just some stairs, every stairs.

2. Secondly, the culture is different. 70% of all Dutch people cycle regularly. So car drivers are usually also cyclists, and respect cyclists. Speed limits in all towns and city centres is just 30km/h. This is accepted as normal. The Dutch are just plain nicer and considerate towards cyclists.

Everyone cycles, young people, and old people.

They have bikes for every purpose: carrying cargo, carrying children, carrying more children, multiple riders, more multiple riders, carrying beer, taking your granny out for a spin, bikes made of wood and even bamboo.

While we in Canberra can’t do much about the weather or the hills, we could certainly improve on the infrastructure and the culture. The Dutch and Belgians are so far ahead of us, they make us look like a second world country in comparison.

I’ve noticed some comments about how hilly Canberra is.

Which Canberra are you guys talking about? It’s really flat here. Hills exist, but they’re hardly super long or super steep.

I work in varied locations. If it’s 5-10km (which it usually is), I’ll happily bike. When my commute is between Belconnen and Tuggeranong, driving seems necessary (although I’m investigating bus/bike options).

I personally find road layouts and driver attitudes quite difficult. Having been hit by a car (while stationary at an intersection), I am well aware that we cyclists are pretty invisible on the road, and a change in road designs might help. But I’ve also had plenty of near misses that were less to do with visibility, and more to do with drivers who couldn’t be bothered looking before pulling in front of me.

aussielyn said :

I lived in Amsterdam, for nearly five years, a while ago. The difference is culture, cost, density, safety, distance and typography. Cyclists’ bell to signal when behind pedestrians as a courtesy. Cycling is not for the speeding lycra-clad types we have here. Cyclists dismount in heavy pedestrian areas. Motorists and cyclists are not in conflict. A cycle has a function and the basic cheap version will not be stolen. You don’t need gears and the only climb is going over a canal bridge. Trips are only short and the population density is high, buildings are 4-story heritage 17th century.
The centre of Amsterdam has narrow streets with one-way traffic along the canals. Traffic is mainly cycling or pedestrian. Petrol is twice the price it is here so cycling costs next to nothing. In the outer areas, cycle paths are segregated from car lanes so there is no stress between the two modes of transport. Both cyclists and motorists obey the rules; I was once fined for not having a light at night.
I requested in a submission on the new transit way on Canberra Ave that the cycle lane be segregated and kept on the existing Fyshwick side. Thus, the cycle path from Qbyn to Fyshwick would be totally segregated. This has been ignored. In the future cyclists will be next to B Doubles going to Nyrang St. It will take a few more casualties to change the design of future bike paths. Better policing to prevent stupid behaviour of both motorists and cyclists would be a good start.

Was a good article but Canberra is not the Nederlands. It is not flat & two meters below sea level. I cringe every time I see a baby trailer here or see a cyclist on Northbourne Ave. I cannot imagine a tradie giving up his ute for a bukfiets.

Shane Rattenbury has lived in Amsterdam and I am sure he agrees with a lot of what I have written.

It is great to read such a well written assessment based on the writer’s personal experiences and observations without links to dubious “sources”.
Well done.

aussielyn said :

I lived in Amsterdam, for nearly five years, a while ago. The difference is culture, cost, density, safety, distance and typography.

Typography?

tim_c said :

Leon said :

You have to be a hero to ride a bike in Canberra.

Really? Because 10km is just soooooooo far…

I used to commute nearly 11km to high school, and then 18km to university.

Tim_c, you’re a hero!

I lived in Amsterdam, for nearly five years, a while ago. The difference is culture, cost, density, safety, distance and typography. Cyclists’ bell to signal when behind pedestrians as a courtesy. Cycling is not for the speeding lycra-clad types we have here. Cyclists dismount in heavy pedestrian areas. Motorists and cyclists are not in conflict. A cycle has a function and the basic cheap version will not be stolen. You don’t need gears and the only climb is going over a canal bridge. Trips are only short and the population density is high, buildings are 4-story heritage 17th century.
The centre of Amsterdam has narrow streets with one-way traffic along the canals. Traffic is mainly cycling or pedestrian. Petrol is twice the price it is here so cycling costs next to nothing. In the outer areas, cycle paths are segregated from car lanes so there is no stress between the two modes of transport. Both cyclists and motorists obey the rules; I was once fined for not having a light at night.
I requested in a submission on the new transit way on Canberra Ave that the cycle lane be segregated and kept on the existing Fyshwick side. Thus, the cycle path from Qbyn to Fyshwick would be totally segregated. This has been ignored. In the future cyclists will be next to B Doubles going to Nyrang St. It will take a few more casualties to change the design of future bike paths. Better policing to prevent stupid behaviour of both motorists and cyclists would be a good start.

Was a good article but Canberra is not the Nederlands. It is not flat & two meters below sea level. I cringe every time I see a baby trailer here or see a cyclist on Northbourne Ave. I cannot imagine a tradie giving up his ute for a bukfiets.

Shane Rattenbury has lived in Amsterdam and I am sure he agrees with a lot of what I have written.

CraigT said :

Canberra has more investment in cycling infrastructure per head of population than anywhere else

Source?

Masquara said :

I’ve never met an angry, nasty Dutch person so far …

You need to get out more!

I reckon there were one or two angry and nasty people in the Dutch East India Company – the world’s first ultra-violent multinational, and there might have been the odd less than savoury Dutch person involved in colonising Indonesia: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/06/23/grisly-images.html

howeph said :

And electric bikes are a great hill leveller. Get rid of mandatory helmet laws – at least for everything except on roads with a speed limit over 60; stop telling everyone that it is dangerous; and a little extra investment in cycle infrastructure and Canberra could be the cycling capital of Australia.

Canberra has more investment in cycling infrastructure per head of population than anywhere else. Despite this, cycling remains far too inconvenient to achieve any kind of appeal for most people.

Flat terrain & short distances. Same goes for Copenhagen, another city that is touted as a model for cycling commuters.

What others have said.

The Netherlands is extremely flat, so people of all fitness’ are willing to ride. Canberra is very hilly, and only the fit ride. Add to that that a lot of people here have to travel well in excess of 20 km each way (in my case, it’s about 35 kms each way)…

They have specific, very well thought-out, well maintained and designated cycle paths – in Amsterdam, the bike path is as wide as a road, and has 2-way signage. This means no bike traffic anywhere near pedestrians or vehicles. I don’t think Canberrans would take issue to cyclists if they were well away from our roads…

Then there’s climate, population density, the cost of bike paths, the fact that the public service has made people complacent, cars are comfortable/warm/have music, Canberra was designed for use with cars, cycling also attracts a ‘special breed’ of person who most of Canberra dislikes greatly.

It is all about attitude, both drivers and riders. I am currently in Europe and what I have seen the drivers are courteous to cyclists and cyclists obey the road rules. There seems to be no road rage, or very little. Drivers and cyclists are a patient lot over here. Maybe some of you should come over to Paris to see how long you would last.

Masquara said :

I’ve never met an angry, nasty Dutch person so far …

Have you ever met a Dutch person?

My mother is from a large Dutch family and they have feuds that have gone on for decades, so long no one can remember what they were originally over.

Peace in the Middle East will probably come before peace amongst her family.

BicycleCanberra said :

While I could write a long and boring list of comparisons that has nothing to do with density or terrain it is best that you watch these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn2s6ax_7TM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22XM8-YTC98

[sarcasm on]

I wonder how the dutch would react if they were told how dangerous cycling is?

I’m sure there would be a huge call for mandatory helmet laws if only they knew.

[/sarcasm off]

And electric bikes are a great hill leveller. Get rid of mandatory helmet laws – at least for everything except on roads with a speed limit over 60; stop telling everyone that it is dangerous; and a little extra investment in cycle infrastructure and Canberra could be the cycling capital of Australia.

They don’t chip-seal bike paths in the Netherlands, since it makes riding on a flat road feel like a hill climb.

I’ve never met an angry, nasty Dutch person so far …

milkman said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Canberrans are lazy.

And cars are awesome.

…if you’ve got the money.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Canberrans are lazy.

And cars are awesome.

Canberrans are lazy.

BicycleCanberra said :

While I could write a long and boring list of comparisons that has nothing to do with density or terrain it is best that you watch these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn2s6ax_7TM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22XM8-YTC98

In the 1950’s the cycling rate in England was about the same as the Netherlands. Even though most of England in dense many still use the car as proffered form of transport

You forgot to include one from Canberra for comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m2q2u2WA3s

Leon said :

You have to be a hero to ride a bike in Canberra.

The average bicycle commute in the Netherlands is only 4.4 km. In Canberra it’s 10 km….

Really? Because 10km is just soooooooo far…

I used to commute nearly 11km to high school, and then 18km to university. When I started working full-time, my commute was only 7km and it was hardly worth the trouble by the time I showered and changed (which took nearly as long as the commute). When I changed workplace, the commute became a much more worthwhile 12-13km, although fear of Jim’s Mowing and his many sympathisers has got me off the road and onto the scenic, meandering and bumpy cycleways, increasing the commute to a still-very-achievable-without-being-an-ironman 16-17km.

Helmet laws.

Part of the problem at least.

The hash cookies in the little basket on the bike probably help, too.

While I could write a long and boring list of comparisons that has nothing to do with density or terrain it is best that you watch these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn2s6ax_7TM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22XM8-YTC98

In the 1950’s the cycling rate in England was about the same as the Netherlands. Even though most of England in dense many still use the car as proffered form of transport

I have cycled in Amsterdam. Some observations:

The on road stuff is just as scary as here, more so since the bike lanes are far more crowded. I often wonder why even bother with onroad lanes here since I usually see about one bike a day using them.

Amsterdam cyclists do not stop for red lights. Ever. If they had to cope with our level of car use, there would be a lot more dead cyclists there.

Motor bikes and push bikes share the lanes. Dunno if that is meant to happen but it does.

1. “In many cities the paths are completely segregated from motorised traffic.”
2. Distance.
3. The convenience of driving currently outweighs the cost savings of riding.
4. See #6 above.

Not so many almost 1/4 acre blocks in Amsterdam!

Hmm, taking Amsterdam as an example. A flat city with 8-10 times the population density of Canberra.
I can’t possibly think why they might ride more and why it would be far more economically feasible to build such cycling infrastructure.

You have to be a hero to ride a bike in Canberra.

The average bicycle commute in the Netherlands is only 4.4 km. In Canberra it’s 10 km.

No matter how many cycling facilities you build, you won’t get the majority of Canberrans cycling until you redesign the city so that more destinations are within cycling distance.

For ideas, see http://www.walkscore.com

The short answer is that Canberra was built for cars because it was planned after the advent of the motor car.
Urbanisation in the Netherlands evolved long before even the bike was invented and if everyone was able to drive a car the bikes would end up in the canals – hey, that’s not really a bad idea!

My 2.2 cents (GST Inc) is that most Australian cities, Canberra included, are designed for cars. We have wide reaching urban sprawl, less than adequate public transport, a road network built primarily for cars with a few bike lanes thrown on as an afterthought and a mentality that bikes are for fun rather than transport. We have grown up in low density suburbs reliant on cars, the Dutch have grown up in high density towns with narrow lanes and a history of cycling for transport rather than leisure.

tim_c said :

One reason is that the Netherlands don’t have any hills. Canberra doesn’t have any serious ones either, but they seem to be enough to put a few people off.

The other reason could be the milder climate in the Netherlands – for nearly half the year it’s just too hot to cycle in Canberra.

Yeah, they never have bad conditions to ride in over in Amsterdam: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22992078@N02/5281210335/

Also, The maximum temp this July for Amsterdam was 32 with minimum of 10. Not exactly vastly different from Canberra’s January mean maximum of 28.1 and mean minimum of 13.2 (yes, I know these are mean values)

One reason is that the Netherlands don’t have any hills. Canberra doesn’t have any serious ones either, but they seem to be enough to put a few people off.

The other reason could be the milder climate in the Netherlands – for nearly half the year it’s just too hot to cycle in Canberra.