"Bush Healing Farm" for Tharwa

They can always access the ACT Regional Community Bus Service.

http://www.dhcs.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/28710/Community_Bus_Brochure_26_June_08.pdf

It is for ACT residents who are isolated because of a lack of other viable transport options.

I suspect the lack of transport is a real plus of the site.

You don’t have to stay but you have to put in the hard (long) yards to just bugger off without telling anyone.

How are people going to access a facility in the middle of nowhere? The ACT government are unable (unwilling?) to provide public transport to Tharwa, so why would Paddys River Road be any different?

I hardly think not wanting a centre for drug addicts and alkies on your doorstep can be dismissed by crying NIMBYISM.

I’ve lost more money to alcoholics needing the cash than I have to drug addicts.

deezagood said :

FJ – you have just raised the exact thing that brings out the rampant NIMBYism; the fake, token ‘community consultation’ that occurs AFTER the land/property has been purchased and things are presumably a ‘done deal’.

I’d agree that abusing people with legitimate objections about not being consulted with charges of NIMBYism is very wrong. My point was that NIMBYism is wrong, and that we can expect to see some of it as a mask for fears and prejudices against services for indigenous people and particularly for people with drug problems – ask anyone who works in the drug and alcohol sector what happened when Karralika wanted to put a halfway house in the community.

My guess is that no-one will complain about services for alcoholics as they’re not known to commit crime to get access to alcohol (because it’s cheap and freely available).

FJ – you have just raised the exact thing that brings out the rampant NIMBYism; the fake, token ‘community consultation’ that occurs AFTER the land/property has been purchased and things are presumably a ‘done deal’. This is what pisses communities off -the feeling of being rail-roaded, not having any voice, not being engaged at the start of the process, and basically feeling as though the ‘community consultation’ is a box-ticking (but essentially pointless) exercise. And then, when these hapless communities rightfully express their contempt at the lack of genuine consultation, everyone shouts them down with cries of ‘NIMBY, NIMBY’. Consultation involves engaging a community before any critical decisions are made, getting the community on-side from the start, making them feel as though they have ownership in the process/outcomes, and letting interested community members participate, actively, in the project. Also – allowing people to voice their concerns, discuss their fears (and perhaps negotiating on those key block-points) etc… before things are a fait accompli. Why oh why won’t this government learn from their constant and oft-repeated mistakes in this regard??? How many more planning debacles and angry communities will it take before they actually get the message regarding what good consultation really looks like? I think the Tharwa community should be rightfully pissed off that this proposal, however valuable and worthwhile, appears to be a ‘done deal’ before they have even had a chance to discuss the concept in a coordinated way.

Sorry – my bit is blended into the quote above.

Furry Jesus said :

The property has already been purchased, so the building of the facility seems to be a done deal, and we might well rail against lack of community consultation, but Katy has apparently said ““The use of this property for this purpose will require a development approval process which will include extensive opportunity for community consultation.”

What will be interesting will be what the community says in this stage of the approval process, and what influence the consultation will carry. I expect the usual NIMBY outpourings of support for the desirability of a rehab service for local Aboriginal people as long as it’s somewhere else.
quote]

FJ – you have just raised the exact thing that brings out the rampant NIMBYism; the fake, token ‘community consultation’ that occurs AFTER the land/property has been purchased and things are presumably a ‘done deal’. This is what pisses communities off -the feeling of being rail-roaded, not having any voice, not being engaged at the start of the process, and basically feeling as though the ‘community consultation’ is a box-ticking (but essentially pointless) exercise. And then, when these hapless communities rightfully express their contempt at the lack of genuine consultation, everyone shouts them down with cries of ‘NIMBY, NIMBY’. Consultation involves engaging a community before any critical decisions are made, getting the community on-side from the start, making them feel as though they have ownership in the process/outcomes, and letting interested community members participate, actively, in the project. Also – allowing people to voice their concerns, discuss their fears (and perhaps negotiating on those key block-points) etc… before things are a fait accompli. Why oh why won’t this government learn from their constant and oft-repeated mistakes in this regard??? How many more planning debacles and angry communities will it take before they actually get the message regarding what good consultation really looks like? I think the Tharwa community should be rightfully pissed off that this proposal, however valuable and worthwhile, appears to be a ‘done deal’ before they have even had a chance to discuss the concept in a coordinated way.

The property has already been purchased, so the building of the facility seems to be a done deal, and we might well rail against lack of community consultation, but Katy has apparently said ““The use of this property for this purpose will require a development approval process which will include extensive opportunity for community consultation.”

What will be interesting will be what the community says in this stage of the approval process, and what influence the consultation will carry. I expect the usual NIMBY outpourings of support for the desirability of a rehab service for local Aboriginal people as long as it’s somewhere else. And ill-conceived reactions denigrating attempts to address indigenous drug/alcohol health concerns outside of mainstream services (or at all). And law-and-order ranting about how treatment/support is a soft option (see vg “handsy holding and tree hugging” above). Don’t we have a big enough ATSI population in prison already?

The lack of a similar service at Bimberi is a huge mistake. Perhaps the healing farm can offer help to young offenders too. Nothing wrong with a bit of early intervention…

On radio this AM they had a story about how NZ have started to sort out Maori health. The Maori are now only 7-8 years behind the rest of NZ in life expectancy, from 17 years behind.

The main thing seemed to be getting Maori health workers involved, even trainees, to deal with Maori patients, the trainees to be heavily backed up with supervisers they can ring during consults to seek advice.

It is good to know that someone is getting somewhere with indigenous health. Sounds like this could be a model we can follow in years to come.

I’m guessing that there’s a robust business case for this – that there’s something about the way mainstream rehab operations deliver services that just isn’t working for A&TSI people. If that’s the case, and this approach has a higher liklihood of delivering good results then I support it.

Less active junkies (of any background)in our community the better.

This is a good idea. Also fits in nicely with Federal Govt attempts to ‘close the gap’.

I suspect he is trying to avoid the ignorant, racists who will only use this to spread ignorant racist views about two much maligned communities.

Tharwa isn’t often maligned?

It is good to see a positive step in healing our communities health issues.

chewy14 said :

dexi said :

Ignorant and racist comments made by racist ignorant s. Your welcome to your opinions but don’t think they won’t be labelled for what they are.

Dexi my point was that if your call people ignorant racists in every post, the terms lose their effect and diminish your argument.

Maybe deep down Dexi is a reformed racist and feels bad about it so everyone has to take blame.

dexi said :

Ignorant and racist comments made by racist ignorant s. Your welcome to your opinions but don’t think they won’t be labelled for what they are.

Dexi my point was that if your call people ignorant racists in every post, the terms lose their effect and diminish your argument.

““This site has been announced on the Tharwa community without consultation, without community involvement, without showing due respect to the other parties in the Assembly.

“The questions is – what is Ms Gallagher trying to hide with this project? We have said repeatedly that we support the concept of a Bush Healing Farm. If there is nothing to hide, the briefing should be provided as soon as possible,” said Zed.”

I suspect he is trying to avoid the ignorant, racists who will only use this to spread ignorant racist views about two much maligned communities.

Not at all. I should have been more specific.

Fair enough FC,

thought you were talking about all the comments.

Ignorant and racist comments made by racist ignorant s. Your welcome to your opinions but don’t think they won’t be labelled for what they are.

chewy14 said :

Yawn.

So if someone has an opinion different to yours they are ignorant and a racist?

Not at all.
When I read comments like this:
“Gee, what are they going to do anout electricity, water and sewerage? More money screwed from U & me just so we can pander to politically correct Aboriginal superstitions.”

“Might have been better to put this joint next to the “tent embassy”.”

I would view the comments as ignorant and racist.

poptop said :

Ummm ‘Victimless crime’ debates aside, technically most drug addicts ARE criminals as they are purchasing and using illegal substances.

depending what drug they are using (eg prescription/alcohol us)

dexi said :

No. When some one has an ignorant racist opinion they are ignorant and a racist.

In your opinion dexi.

Interesting point by the Libs – if this is such a good idea why was Stanhope so secretive about it?

Ummm ‘Victimless crime’ debates aside, technically most drug addicts ARE criminals as they are purchasing and using illegal substances.

No. When some one has an ignorant racist opinion they are ignorant and a racist.

Yawn.

So if someone has an opinion different to yours they are ignorant and a racist?

YapYapYap said :

Despite what Zed is Dead says the tories never supported the idea. Its a drug and alcohol rehab facility, not a half-way house for criminals, and I can’t see what’s wrong with the idea. But then I’m not a redkneck.

haha!!

cranky said :

And criminals are divorced from drug and alcohol dependant members of society?

Not all criminals are drug addicts and not all drug addicts are criminals.
a half way house is a very different thing to a drug rehabilitation service

I am quite saddened (although not shocked – with it coming from posters on Riotact), at the ignorant and racist comments on this thread.

I guess I struggle to ‘get’ how some people don’t ‘get it’, just as they obviously struggle to ‘get it’/

amarooresident2 said :

R. Slicker said :

Gee, what are they going to do anout electricity, water and sewerage? More money screwed from U & me just so we can pander to politically correct Aboriginal superstitions.

So if it was for white kids it would be ok?

+1

Clearly a lot of replies indicated that some have never been personally affected by the suffering associated with drug or alchohol addictions. Otherwise you would understand that it doesn’t matter what heritage you have, anyone is susceptible. Perhaps some cultural awareness training would also help you understand what good this farm could do.

Cranky, you need to sort yourself out; rehab for the bitter and twisted.

Criminals and people with drug problems are not one and the same thing.

They should open up some rehabs for people who don’t have criminal problems, and then normal people would be more keen to go into them before their lives totally fall apart.

Canberra does need more rehab spots. Currently unless you are court ordered into one, they have no room for you. And those who are court ordered to go there, often aren’t that committed to the process of rehabilitation, and put everyone else off too.

I think this sort of targetted approach to rehab is a good one. I’d have separate a women’s rehab as well.

And criminals are divorced from drug and alcohol dependant members of society?

Despite what Zed is Dead says the tories never supported the idea. Its a drug and alcohol rehab facility, not a half-way house for criminals, and I can’t see what’s wrong with the idea. But then I’m not a redkneck.

I can’t help feeling we’re missing an opportunity here; that maybe working through their problems with people from other ethnic backgrounds would help Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians understand each other better. Maybe find some common ground?

And that would be ‘parallel’!

Can I raise the question of why the ACT Gov can break all records in funding and establishing this facility, when a similar facility for potential Bimberi inmates is not, and probably never will be, countenanced? As per a parralel thread.

i’m with gobbo, i rekkun the healing farm is a brilliant initiative and it is just a pity there isn’t more of an effort made to address this scourge in our society across a broader cross section of it.

a healing facility like this is quite unlikely to become a ghetto for low socio-economic indigenous criminals as a housing commission estate might, so i am not sure what you’re sorry about, vg, or to whom… there are clearly not enough rehab places in canberra, or do you know stuff the rest of us don’t?

this should be allied, though, to a much more focussed and well-resourced mental health program to meet the needs in that sector, too. in fact, while this farm is in and of itself excellent, i should rather these resources go to the enormous dearth in mental health facilities our society currently ‘enjoys’.

Mr Evil said :

See, there are worse things than having a Data Centre built next door to you!

Maybe Stanhope should put all his eggs in one basket and build a Data Centre/Crematorium/Cemetery and Drug and Alcohol Rehab Centre all in one spot?

Gobbo – believe me, if the bush healing centre had some sort(any sort) of gas power station attached, Stanhope would definately be trying to pop it next to Macarthur. The man really, really (really) wants something gas-fired on that land 🙂

Sorry, but what a load of shit. All handsy holding and tree hugging. We have more rhab places in this town than addicts

I support the Bush Healing Farm. I even supported it when I thought it was going to be built near me.

R. Slicker said :

Gee, what are they going to do anout electricity, water and sewerage? More money screwed from U & me just so we can pander to politically correct Aboriginal superstitions.

So if it was for white kids it would be ok?

Gee, what are they going to do anout electricity, water and sewerage? More money screwed from U & me just so we can pander to politically correct Aboriginal superstitions.

Wasn’t this or something similar proposed for the Kama property at one stage? (Shortly after they kicked out the Tully family, and then threatened to evict their neighbours for looking after the stock with no paddock) If not Kama, then somewhere else in the Belconnen area.

More sensibly, though, government doesn’t need to consult to resume a lease, especially a rural lease, and compensation is payable because of that pesky Constitution. They don’t need to consult until the DA goes out, and then only on works (and it might be different in a rural area because no one will be materially affected).

So all you have left to whinge about is the lack of scrutiny though appropriation. In that case, bag out Labor for sneaking it through, and bag out the Libs and Greens for leting them – or perhaps they were all properly briefed and thought it was a good idea.

See, there are worse things than having a Data Centre built next door to you!

Maybe Stanhope should put all his eggs in one basket and build a Data Centre/Crematorium/Cemetery and Drug and Alcohol Rehab Centre all in one spot?

Good opportunity for an enterprising locksmith to drum up business with the locals for installing deadbolts and other security systems on properties.

Might have been better to put this joint next to the “tent embassy”.

Not Tharwa. Tidbinbilla Valley.

Government paid $1.7 million dollars for this farm. Did the tax payer here about it? No… Were the local farms consulted? No… Is this service inline with the Territory Plan? No…

10/10 for ACT Government’s lack of community consultation. But Hey, Same as always!