Northbourne does not need to be completely dug up

gungsuperstar said :

dungfungus said :

damien haas said :

http://www.actlightrail.info/2013/07/alistair-coe-on-wrong-track.html

ACT Light Rail would ask the Canberra Liberals “What is your alternative public transport policy?”

With respect Damien you are starting to sound like a federal Labor politician saying to the opposition “show us yer policies, duh”.

Your parody of a conservative is coming along quite nicely.

How dare citizens want the alternate government to have alternate policies that they will tell us about!

dungfungus said :

(it got Labor returned even though the Liberals got more votes)

This is my favourite stupid line repeated by conservatives (or those doing a parody of them) – across the ACT the Libs got 41 more votes than Labor. 41.

http://www.elections.act.gov.au/elections_and_voting/past_act_legislative_assembly_elections/2012_act_legislative_assembly_election/2012_election_results2/2012_results_by_electorate_and_by_party

And guess what? We live in a democracy operating under a Westminster system where total votes don’t matter!

If you want Government, negotiate to get it. Almost 500 pieces of legislation passed in the past 3 years of minority Federal Government, a record, proves that you can actually use cross benchers to get better policy!

It’s worth noting that in this Federal example, the LNP have voted with the government on about 85% of legislation.

If you want to use total votes as being any sort of measure of validity, I would note that in Gininderra and Molonglo, the electorates affected by the light rail project, the Labor party got about 8000 more votes than the Libs.

So what if I am a conservative?
There a very few of us on this blog which raises an interesting point namely, how come there is an overwhelmingly negative opinion on light rail seen here when by your own admission there were 8000 more ACT election votes for Labor in the electorates affected by the light rail?
It seems all the light rail bitching on this blog comes from Labor voters in those electorates.
It is democratic that voters outside these electorates have their say as well seeing as they will be paying for a light rail without having access to same (if if ever goes ahead that is).
If Labor doesn’t go ahead with light rail are you all going to vote against them? No, I doubt it.

JC said :

dungfungus said :

With respect Damien you are starting to sound like a federal Labor politician saying to the opposition “show us yer policies, duh”.
Going into the last ACT election, neither the Liberals or Labor had a light rail policy but it could be argued that Labor had done “studies” to skew opinion against light rail. The only party that had a light rail policy, and totally uncosted at that, was The Greens. I don’t recall the media grilling them about “how much it will cost”.

Bulldust on both accounts. ACT Labor did have a light rail policy, that policy was, in the term of the next government to investigate the viability and options for light rail. With the Greens having the balance of power that was changed to get their vote to start building one within this term.

As for the role of the opposition, despite their name the opposition is not their to oppose everything the government does. Ultimately their role is to represent those in their electorates. However, if an opposition party wants me to vote them in then I expect that whilst in opposition rather than shit canning the government they use that full period of 3 (Federal) or 4 years to show me their alternative to what ever they are whining about. Don’t do that and no vote from me and the last 6 weeks is not the time to try and convince me.

” to investigate the viability and options for light rail……….””
That is a goal, not a policy.
So far, Labor’s investigations are clearly showing light rail is not viable. The options won’t even need to be considered. Labor deserve to be “shit canned” for their poor handling of this fiasco.

gungsuperstar said :

If you want Government, negotiate to get it. Almost 500 pieces of legislation passed in the past 3 years of minority Federal Government, a record, proves that you can actually use cross benchers to get better policy!

I call absolute BS on your link between the amount of legislation being passed, and “better” policy outcomes. I agree with the point you make, but this little nugget here is just plain bullsh t.

gungsuperstar said :

dungfungus said :

damien haas said :

http://www.actlightrail.info/2013/07/alistair-coe-on-wrong-track.html

ACT Light Rail would ask the Canberra Liberals “What is your alternative public transport policy?”

With respect Damien you are starting to sound like a federal Labor politician saying to the opposition “show us yer policies, duh”.

Your parody of a conservative is coming along quite nicely.

How dare citizens want the alternate government to have alternate policies that they will tell us about!

dungfungus said :

(it got Labor returned even though the Liberals got more votes)

This is my favourite stupid line repeated by conservatives (or those doing a parody of them) – across the ACT the Libs got 41 more votes than Labor. 41.

http://www.elections.act.gov.au/elections_and_voting/past_act_legislative_assembly_elections/2012_act_legislative_assembly_election/2012_election_results2/2012_results_by_electorate_and_by_party

And guess what? We live in a democracy operating under a Westminster system where total votes don’t matter!

If you want Government, negotiate to get it. Almost 500 pieces of legislation passed in the past 3 years of minority Federal Government, a record, proves that you can actually use cross benchers to get better policy!

It’s worth noting that in this Federal example, the LNP have voted with the government on about 85% of legislation.

If you want to use total votes as being any sort of measure of validity, I would note that in Gininderra and Molonglo, the electorates affected by the light rail project, the Labor party got about 8000 more votes than the Libs.

So you’re saying that Labor and the Greens gave a massive election bribe to buy votes in Ginninderra and Molonglo? Sounds about right.

damien haas said :

It is indeed a fortunate occurrence that the agreement to govern has hastened light rail construction, that is a good thing. The ALP had flirted with light rail at elections several times, including 2012 (with a vague study and future build promised IF they were returned in 2016 as well as 2012).

Damo, your blind faith in the government is bordering on delusional. I am neither for, nor against the light rail. But if you seriously think it is going to happen, then I enter into evidence the promised dragstrip. The dragstrip remains a pipe dream and the same will happen to your train set. Just give it time.

dungfungus said :

With respect Damien you are starting to sound like a federal Labor politician saying to the opposition “show us yer policies, duh”.
Going into the last ACT election, neither the Liberals or Labor had a light rail policy but it could be argued that Labor had done “studies” to skew opinion against light rail. The only party that had a light rail policy, and totally uncosted at that, was The Greens. I don’t recall the media grilling them about “how much it will cost”.

Bulldust on both accounts. ACT Labor did have a light rail policy, that policy was, in the term of the next government to investigate the viability and options for light rail. With the Greens having the balance of power that was changed to get their vote to start building one within this term.

As for the role of the opposition, despite their name the opposition is not their to oppose everything the government does. Ultimately their role is to represent those in their electorates. However, if an opposition party wants me to vote them in then I expect that whilst in opposition rather than shit canning the government they use that full period of 3 (Federal) or 4 years to show me their alternative to what ever they are whining about. Don’t do that and no vote from me and the last 6 weeks is not the time to try and convince me.

dungfungus said :

damien haas said :

http://www.actlightrail.info/2013/07/alistair-coe-on-wrong-track.html

ACT Light Rail would ask the Canberra Liberals “What is your alternative public transport policy?”

With respect Damien you are starting to sound like a federal Labor politician saying to the opposition “show us yer policies, duh”.

Your parody of a conservative is coming along quite nicely.

How dare citizens want the alternate government to have alternate policies that they will tell us about!

dungfungus said :

(it got Labor returned even though the Liberals got more votes)

This is my favourite stupid line repeated by conservatives (or those doing a parody of them) – across the ACT the Libs got 41 more votes than Labor. 41.

http://www.elections.act.gov.au/elections_and_voting/past_act_legislative_assembly_elections/2012_act_legislative_assembly_election/2012_election_results2/2012_results_by_electorate_and_by_party

And guess what? We live in a democracy operating under a Westminster system where total votes don’t matter!

If you want Government, negotiate to get it. Almost 500 pieces of legislation passed in the past 3 years of minority Federal Government, a record, proves that you can actually use cross benchers to get better policy!

It’s worth noting that in this Federal example, the LNP have voted with the government on about 85% of legislation.

If you want to use total votes as being any sort of measure of validity, I would note that in Gininderra and Molonglo, the electorates affected by the light rail project, the Labor party got about 8000 more votes than the Libs.

I’m still a fence sitter on the proposed light rail and the CT article was poor but I hope the artist’s impression (presumably a reproduction of a Government release) is not correct. That train doesn’t look like it would carry any more passengers than an articulated bus and the rail station design looks like passengers would still have to swipe on and off the train itself; which would make loading and unloading equally as slow as it is now on the buses.

Trams, compared to buses, have more doors, less or no steps and more standing area with better grips/poles (ride is smoother too). Just about everywhere trams are operated they use card swipe readers inside so there are no holdups boarding. Ticket inspectors randomly enforce the fare evaders.
A tram set of 3 carriages will carry about 180 – 200 passengers. They are better at urban mass transport than buses are.

Better get used to the negativity because a lot of people in this town do not want it built/installed. Get used to a lot of negativity from Alistair “the boy” in particular because he has groomed the petrol head lobby. 50/50 at best that it will proceed. Toot toot

damien haas said :

http://www.actlightrail.info/2013/07/alistair-coe-on-wrong-track.html

ACT Light Rail would ask the Canberra Liberals “What is your alternative public transport policy?”

With respect Damien you are starting to sound like a federal Labor politician saying to the opposition “show us yer policies, duh”.
Going into the last ACT election, neither the Liberals or Labor had a light rail policy but it could be argued that Labor had done “studies” to skew opinion against light rail. The only party that had a light rail policy, and totally uncosted at that, was The Greens. I don’t recall the media grilling them about “how much it will cost”.
Virtually on the eve of the election Labor did a deal with The Greens to promise a light rail (it got Labor returned even though the Liberals got more votes) and since then it had been a farce with Labor hoping the next election will come before too much money is spent. Labor really believe they will win the next election without the support of The Greens and the first thing they will do is can the light rail.
A lot of consortiums were interested in expressing interest in a light rail for Canberra and at least one consortium could do it for half the price that has been estimated without ripping up Northbourne Avenue. This would dramatically change the equation but the problem is, nobody now believes ACT Labor is fair-dinkum about it which is a shame.
Let’s prepare for more buses and grid lock.

Ben_Dover said :

damien haas said :

Where taxpayers should be concerned is the governments record of project pushing on projects which are not wanted.

Fixed.

Please god, save us from barmy green light rail!

So you have to invent quotes to prove something?

I said no such thing. Polls conducted prior to the last Assembly election indicated overwhelming support for light rail from the Canberra public.

I am not sure where the linking of public transport infrastructure to the greens comes from. Australia wide, public transport infrastructure has been constructed under Liberal and Labor governments. Western Australias massive PT build is perfect example.

It is indeed a fortunate occurrence that the agreement to govern has hastened light rail construction, that is a good thing. The ALP had flirted with light rail at elections several times, including 2012 (with a vague study and future build promised IF they were returned in 2016 as well as 2012).

I realised long ago in PT advocacy that facts and figures are one thing, ultimately it’s a political decision. The electorate spoke.

damien haas said :

http://www.actlightrail.info/2013/07/alistair-coe-on-wrong-track.html

ACT Light Rail would ask the Canberra Liberals “What is your alternative public transport policy?”

To send a barrel roll over Black Mountain, followed by a plunge into the lake,
Its not the job of the Opposition to provide realistic solutions.

Ben_Dover said :

damien haas said :

Where taxpayers should be concerned is the governments record of project pushing on projects which are not wanted.

Fixed.

Please god, save us from barmy green light rail!

The unpalatable fact is that god has been trumped by Corbell the self-proclaimed godfather…

http://www.actlightrail.info/2013/07/alistair-coe-on-wrong-track.html

ACT Light Rail would ask the Canberra Liberals “What is your alternative public transport policy?”

damien haas said :

Where taxpayers should be concerned is the governments record of project pushing on projects which are not wanted.

Fixed.

Please god, save us from barmy green light rail!

c_c™ said :

damien haas said :

There is so much fail in the CT article it boggles the mind. Do the CT employ fact checkers?

They don’t actually, and I’ve had to drag them into line on more than one occasion because by their own admission, they’ve have, or were about to, jump the gun to break a headline before cross checking the content.

A few examples I know of in today’s paper alone. This is irresponsible reporting and damaging to the Capital region. Pull your head in FFS CT. Grow up and move on from your negative journalism.

As for Coe, the Government would have been smashed if they spent more money on reports and surveys in the early stage. Something has to inform the decision making process. Then you make the decision to put more into it and provide the details at the appropriate point.

Politics aside and regardless of how you feel about the light rail proposal, think of the ACT as a business, would you throw all your money into a business study up front, or a little to see if it might work first, then increase the cash flow as it needs it?

damien haas said :

There is so much fail in the CT article it boggles the mind. Do the CT employ fact checkers?

They don’t actually, and I’ve had to drag them into line on more than one occasion because by their own admission, they’ve have, or were about to, jump the gun to break a headline before cross checking the content.

There is so much fail in the CT article it boggles the mind. Do the CT employ fact checkers?

Alistair, the Concept Report is not where the government received its tick of approval. That tick of approval came from the agreement to govern between the Greens and the ALP.

Where taxpayers should be concerned is the governments record of project delivery, and that is where constant scrutiny is required.

Damien Haas
Chair, ACT Light Rail