Shane Rattenbury, Greens for Molonglo, completes the Lego Challenge

At one point one of the boxes tipped over and there was a near-environmental disaster as toxic levels of Lego spilled onto the carpet and threatened the fragile eco-system that is the back room at The Duxton.

I think we can take some comfort in the fact that our current Speaker of the Assembly is also adept at cleaning up Lego spills.

Weird thing. Having finally sussed out how to tweet pics, and having tweeted many in the past couple of weeks, on the occasions I tried to tweet pics of Shane mopping up this near environmental disaster, Twitter jammed up and refused to play, but later allowed a Floriade ferris wheel shot.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

johnboy said :

…
50 years ago hedgehogs in the UK were getting wiped out by cars because they curled in a ball when lights came on them.

Today the descendants of the hedgehogs who kept running are thriving.

Life is very resilient.

(but ways to run over less hedgehogs would be awesome)

Ditto wombats, who are thick in every sense. ?

I try to avoid thinking too much about these wider issues any more, as I lack your optimism. ?Your next point @15 is undermined a little by the fact that in countries such as India and China, we are seeing a growing imbalance in favour of more men as sex-selective abortion and, on a lesser scale, infanticide of female babies is practised. ?This is in educated middle class families as well. Smaller families, but more boys. ?I can’t see how that can be good for world peace and so on. I don’t think women are naturally peaceful, but a society that puts them down as worthless would tend to idiolise ‘masculine’ traits.

Amazing the discussion a little Lego can generate. ?Perhaps we need to do the world in 100 years in Lego. ?Just melt a couple of boxes with a blowtorch?

I’m riotous fun tonight.

(bundah: my sepia mate to the left is a Tasmanian Devil.)

Speaking of cute critters there is a real concern that the facial tumour disease affecting our wild tassie devils could wipe them out within two decades if a cure is not found.This terrible aggressive parasitic cancer has,sadly,reduced their numbers by 70% since 1996.

johnboy said :

bundah said :

Here’s a potential solution to increasing fish stocks

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/08/090818-giant-robotic-fish-farms.html

Although i am concerned as to how we are going to tackle the massive problem of plastic rubbish in our oceans.

50 years ago hedgehogs in the UK were getting wiped out by cars because they curled in a ball when lights came on them.

Today the descendants of the hedgehogs who kept running are thriving.

Life is very resilient.

(but ways to run over less hedgehogs would be awesome)

Apparently there are 300,000 fewer hedgehogs in Britain now than a decade ago and about 50,000 die on the roads every year which is so sad coz they’re cute little buggers!

Jethro said :

I think community gardens are a great idea. Localised food economies can only be a good thing.

I’m not sure Malthus was wrong, just wrong on dates. The green revolution wasn’t expected. Undoubtably there will be similar ‘green revolutions’. At the end of the day though, the world has a finite carrying capacity. 7 billion people could simply not have the way of life we lucky few do today. It’s not possible. I do see a need for us to step back from the lifestyles we currently maintain. It’s an individual choice and one that more individuals are making. I made mine a few ears back and have been making baby steps. Hopefully I will keep making them until I get to where I want to be.

Population growth tends to grow through a big spurt when infant mortality is tamed, and then fall back when parents feel confident their children have a good chance of living to adulthood, and women let their men know they don’t want to be baby farms. (men tend to like wives with bodies not utterly ravaged by childbirth too)

There’s an established cycle of good medicine creating a population boom followed by birth control creating a downward trending population.

I’d be surprised if the global population goes over 10 bill. It’s certainly not going to be an uncontrolled upward spiral.

bundah said :

Here’s a potential solution to increasing fish stocks

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/08/090818-giant-robotic-fish-farms.html

Although i am concerned as to how we are going to tackle the massive problem of plastic rubbish in our oceans.

50 years ago hedgehogs in the UK were getting wiped out by cars because they curled in a ball when lights came on them.

Today the descendants of the hedgehogs who kept running are thriving.

Life is very resilient.

(but ways to run over less hedgehogs would be awesome)

I think community gardens are a great idea. Localised food economies can only be a good thing.

I’m not sure Malthus was wrong, just wrong on dates. The green revolution wasn’t expected. Undoubtably there will be similar ‘green revolutions’. At the end of the day though, the world has a finite carrying capacity. 7 billion people could simply not have the way of life we lucky few do today. It’s not possible. I do see a need for us to step back from the lifestyles we currently maintain. It’s an individual choice and one that more individuals are making. I made mine a few ears back and have been making baby steps. Hopefully I will keep making them until I get to where I want to be.

Jethro said :

johnboy said :

Jethro said :

I tend to agree JB.

Nonetheless, in my darker moments, I do tend to wonder whether the system we have created has us all rushing towards an inevitable precipice that will see the very catastrophe you warn Truthiness against.

Your comments about how interdependent we are, are in some ways quite scary. We are entirely dependent on the system operating without hiccup, yet in some ways it is quite fragile. When you consider the role debt plays in money creation and wealth production, and the fact that the continual issuance of debt depends on infinite future economic growth for that debt to be paid down, it is a bit worrying to contemplate that many of our economic activities are unsustainable and could hit a wall sometime relatively soon (within a lifetime or two).

The chaos emerging in Spain and Greece are obvious warning of what can happen to an economy that in unable to pay down the debt it has used to fuel its growth. The infinite growth that the current debt-economy relies upon is not guaranteed. Indeed, once you consider the fact we live in a world with a finite capacity to produce resources and absorb waste (seen through such thing as the impacts of climate change, peak oil, resource depletion, etc) continued infinite economic growth seems unlikely in the long term. Once growth is no longer sustainable, debt is no longer payable and the system that relies upon the debt-economy is in serious trouble.

That being said, I’m certainly no advocate of revolutionary upheaval.

An evolution towards resilient local economies that are food and energy dependent, however, would be IMHO a good thing to see.

I’m far from saying everything’s sweet.

But anything other than incremental improvement is wholesale murder.

So let’s think through our increments.

Without our interdependence we’re talking of a die back from 7 billion people to maybe 2 billion.

Every one of those people as entitled to hope and dream as you or I.

However I’m not willing to bet against human ingenuity.

We tend to outlive our problems rather than resolve them.

As I said, evolution, not revolution.

My concern is that die-back could occur without serious focus on evolution. 1 billion people rely on fish as their source of protein, but current management of global fish stocks will see total collapse by 2050. That is going to have to have an impact on population and quality of life. And it’s only one small piece of a much larger puzzle.

People like James Hansen, Jim Lovelock and Jared Diamond are all saying similar things, and all of them are experts in their fields and worth listening to.

Here’s a potential solution to increasing fish stocks

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/08/090818-giant-robotic-fish-farms.html

Although i am concerned as to how we are going to tackle the massive problem of plastic rubbish in our oceans.

To take things down to a more trivial level, I thought the community garden was lovely. (Richard did a lot of that, I think.) As a witness to some of this build, I was impressed by Shane’s ability to talk and Lego at the same time. Some might say it’s a bit like being Speaker and an active Party member at the same time…:-)

Liked the mosque too.

johnboy said :

Jethro said :

I tend to agree JB.

Nonetheless, in my darker moments, I do tend to wonder whether the system we have created has us all rushing towards an inevitable precipice that will see the very catastrophe you warn Truthiness against.

Your comments about how interdependent we are, are in some ways quite scary. We are entirely dependent on the system operating without hiccup, yet in some ways it is quite fragile. When you consider the role debt plays in money creation and wealth production, and the fact that the continual issuance of debt depends on infinite future economic growth for that debt to be paid down, it is a bit worrying to contemplate that many of our economic activities are unsustainable and could hit a wall sometime relatively soon (within a lifetime or two).

The chaos emerging in Spain and Greece are obvious warning of what can happen to an economy that in unable to pay down the debt it has used to fuel its growth. The infinite growth that the current debt-economy relies upon is not guaranteed. Indeed, once you consider the fact we live in a world with a finite capacity to produce resources and absorb waste (seen through such thing as the impacts of climate change, peak oil, resource depletion, etc) continued infinite economic growth seems unlikely in the long term. Once growth is no longer sustainable, debt is no longer payable and the system that relies upon the debt-economy is in serious trouble.

That being said, I’m certainly no advocate of revolutionary upheaval.

An evolution towards resilient local economies that are food and energy dependent, however, would be IMHO a good thing to see.

I’m far from saying everything’s sweet.

But anything other than incremental improvement is wholesale murder.

So let’s think through our increments.

Without our interdependence we’re talking of a die back from 7 billion people to maybe 2 billion.

Every one of those people as entitled to hope and dream as you or I.

However I’m not willing to bet against human ingenuity.

We tend to outlive our problems rather than resolve them.

As I said, evolution, not revolution.

My concern is that die-back could occur without serious focus on evolution. 1 billion people rely on fish as their source of protein, but current management of global fish stocks will see total collapse by 2050. That is going to have to have an impact on population and quality of life. And it’s only one small piece of a much larger puzzle.

People like James Hansen, Jim Lovelock and Jared Diamond are all saying similar things, and all of them are experts in their fields and worth listening to.

Jethro said :

I tend to agree JB.

Nonetheless, in my darker moments, I do tend to wonder whether the system we have created has us all rushing towards an inevitable precipice that will see the very catastrophe you warn Truthiness against.

Your comments about how interdependent we are, are in some ways quite scary. We are entirely dependent on the system operating without hiccup, yet in some ways it is quite fragile. When you consider the role debt plays in money creation and wealth production, and the fact that the continual issuance of debt depends on infinite future economic growth for that debt to be paid down, it is a bit worrying to contemplate that many of our economic activities are unsustainable and could hit a wall sometime relatively soon (within a lifetime or two).

The chaos emerging in Spain and Greece are obvious warning of what can happen to an economy that in unable to pay down the debt it has used to fuel its growth. The infinite growth that the current debt-economy relies upon is not guaranteed. Indeed, once you consider the fact we live in a world with a finite capacity to produce resources and absorb waste (seen through such thing as the impacts of climate change, peak oil, resource depletion, etc) continued infinite economic growth seems unlikely in the long term. Once growth is no longer sustainable, debt is no longer payable and the system that relies upon the debt-economy is in serious trouble.

That being said, I’m certainly no advocate of revolutionary upheaval.

An evolution towards resilient local economies that are food and energy dependent, however, would be IMHO a good thing to see.

I’m far from saying everything’s sweet.

But anything other than incremental improvement is wholesale murder.

So let’s think through our increments.

Without our interdependence we’re talking of a die back from 7 billion people to maybe 2 billion.

Every one of those people as entitled to hope and dream as you or I.

However I’m not willing to bet against human ingenuity.

We tend to outlive our problems rather than resolve them.

Jethro said :

An evolution towards resilient local economies that are food and energy dependent, however, would be IMHO a good thing to see.

Er… independent.

johnboy said :

I think it’s time you get over yourself and realise that you’re living in a community which, for all its flaws, is doing better than most.

From there it would be helpful for your fellow citizens if you tried playing the game we’re playing rather than telling us how awesome another game would be if only you’d finish writing the rules.

We are interdependent on each other in ways unimaginable to even our grandparents.

For example in 1912 a steam train was a pretty snazzy piece of kit, but most intelligent people could take a good shot at building one from scratch in a lifetime if they had to.

You, nor I, could no sooner re-invent the smartphone than fly to the moon. We couldn’t even make the glass screen on a smartphone in our whole lives. The techs at corning who make that glass couldn’t make it on their own starting from scratch. We need each other, and systems to mediate that reliance, in ways we’ve never had before. And yet more people are leading better lives than ever before. (Yes there is more that should and can be done)

Trashing the system and starting over would be catastrophically murderous. The dislocations (which killed millions) the communists suffered as they tried to transition from market based capitalism would be nothing compared to what would happen today.

So, if I may be so bold, constructive suggestions to improve the society we live in are a lot more likely to fly.

I tend to agree JB.

Nonetheless, in my darker moments, I do tend to wonder whether the system we have created has us all rushing towards an inevitable precipice that will see the very catastrophe you warn Truthiness against.

Your comments about how interdependent we are, are in some ways quite scary. We are entirely dependent on the system operating without hiccup, yet in some ways it is quite fragile. When you consider the role debt plays in money creation and wealth production, and the fact that the continual issuance of debt depends on infinite future economic growth for that debt to be paid down, it is a bit worrying to contemplate that many of our economic activities are unsustainable and could hit a wall sometime relatively soon (within a lifetime or two).

The chaos emerging in Spain and Greece are obvious warning of what can happen to an economy that in unable to pay down the debt it has used to fuel its growth. The infinite growth that the current debt-economy relies upon is not guaranteed. Indeed, once you consider the fact we live in a world with a finite capacity to produce resources and absorb waste (seen through such thing as the impacts of climate change, peak oil, resource depletion, etc) continued infinite economic growth seems unlikely in the long term. Once growth is no longer sustainable, debt is no longer payable and the system that relies upon the debt-economy is in serious trouble.

That being said, I’m certainly no advocate of revolutionary upheaval.

An evolution towards resilient local economies that are food and energy dependent, however, would be IMHO a good thing to see.

I’d support the drone, but only if it was armed with Hellfire missiles.

Wow so many candidates for the mully cup;

firstly Poetix for her social conscience and appropriate parental concern

secondly Poocockhead for his extreme bigotry and lunacy and

lastly Truthiness for his extraordinary insights and positivity?

I think it’s time you get over yourself and realise that you’re living in a community which, for all its flaws, is doing better than most.

From there it would be helpful for your fellow citizens if you tried playing the game we’re playing rather than telling us how awesome another game would be if only you’d finish writing the rules.

We are interdependent on each other in ways unimaginable to even our grandparents.

For example in 1912 a steam train was a pretty snazzy piece of kit, but most intelligent people could take a good shot at building one from scratch in a lifetime if they had to.

You, nor I, could no sooner re-invent the smartphone than fly to the moon. We couldn’t even make the glass screen on a smartphone in our whole lives. The techs at corning who make that glass couldn’t make it on their own starting from scratch. We need each other, and systems to mediate that reliance, in ways we’ve never had before. And yet more people are leading better lives than ever before. (Yes there is more that should and can be done)

Trashing the system and starting over would be catastrophically murderous. The dislocations (which killed millions) the communists suffered as they tried to transition from market based capitalism would be nothing compared to what would happen today.

So, if I may be so bold, constructive suggestions to improve the society we live in are a lot more likely to fly.

“police drone aircraft” I can’t see any way that could go wrong. *shudders*

The rest of it seems like “the landscaping party”, a couple of new gazebos, some nice shrubbery and a few fish for the pond.

Don’t get me wrong, biodiversity and gay marriage are important, and it all looks better than the head on collision that is labs n libs, but the greens are still far too conservative, capitalist and statist for my tastes.

The underlying foundations of our society are unsustainable, we need to take bold steps to ween ourselves off our addiction to consumption. This all feels like window dressing and green washing, maybe its just the first steps, and maybe they’re taking it easy on a skittish public, but I would like to see much bigger changes, and soon.