24 September 2008

17 year old person of interest swabbed for Telopea murder

| johnboy
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It’s getting hard to keep track of all the murders in Canberra.

But for the aficionados who’ve been following the Kingston murder of Cameron Anderson, 19, the Canberra Times has more. (Thanks to ikarus for the head’s up).

    The person at the centre of the investigation is a 17-year-old girl who was seen drinking with Mr Anderson at Kingston’s Filthy McFadden’s pub in the hours before the apprentice chef’s death…

    But police, who have not ruled out charging the girl, applied last week to the ACT Children’s Court to obtain forensic samples from the girl. She appeared at a court hearing on Monday morning and consented to a police request for samples of her DNA to be compared with material found at the murder scene.

Seventeen year old “person of interest” drinking at your pub the night of a murder? Not a good look.

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RIPCA said :

Well it remains to be seen if he was or was not until after the trial is over don’t you thing?

i was a friend of Cameron Anderson and he was a nice guy frendly and shy off girls it took him a yea just to say hi to me and i dont believe for a secound that he would attack anyone let alone a knife carring underage drunk and it makes me sick that the bullshit and charater bashing that the feeding the public is being believed, they have made a nice guy in to a pervered sex offender and i know in my heart and mind and soul that none of it is true, cameron wasnt what hes made out to be in the paper and i just wanted people to relies that he was a nice frendly kind guy that wouldnt hurt anyone or anything, shame of the girl that killed him, shes giving camerson such a bad name i hope she gets whats coming to her

tylersmayhem9:11 am 30 Sep 08

To answer your question peterh, you’ll find that by the law, this is still the establishments responsibility, as is having an under age person on site. I know it’s over the top, but unless laws have changed since the last time I did a Responsible Service of Alcohol course – it won’t be happy days for Filthy’s much longer.

tylersmayhem said :

If I was the owner and/or manager of Filthy McFadden’s, I’d asking someone to get me my brown pants right about now. While establishments usually seem to get away scott free when supplying minors with booze, if Filthy’s is in the centre of a murder investigation, and alcohol is deemed as a contributing factor, then by the law, the establishment can be held accountable for some of the involvement.

While it is bulls**t that much of the blame will be put on Filthy’s, rtaher than the offender, it’s a sad fact that people will be out for blood, and quite likely compensation (family of the victim) at the end of the day. Filthy’s might just tick both these boxes.

another point here is that she may not have bought the grog, but had it bought for her. How would filthy’s be able to control this form of consumption?

they can’t.

but the mob won’t look at that fact, and filthy’s will get tarred with the same brush.

tylersmayhem8:43 am 30 Sep 08

If I was the owner and/or manager of Filthy McFadden’s, I’d asking someone to get me my brown pants right about now. While establishments usually seem to get away scott free when supplying minors with booze, if Filthy’s is in the centre of a murder investigation, and alcohol is deemed as a contributing factor, then by the law, the establishment can be held accountable for some of the involvement.

While it is bulls**t that much of the blame will be put on Filthy’s, rtaher than the offender, it’s a sad fact that people will be out for blood, and quite likely compensation (family of the victim) at the end of the day. Filthy’s might just tick both these boxes.

Deadmandrinking4:38 pm 29 Sep 08

There’s heaps of guns on the black market in the US…

even an unloaded gun or a stick, a rock etc can be used as a bludgeon.

better education about weapons needs to be made available. Banning weapons only drives them underground to the black market.

Deadmandrinking4:19 pm 29 Sep 08

JB, you need to remember what a gun actually is. It’s a tool that’s only purpose is killing someone or something. Everything else there could be used for something else.

Thumper said :

I’d like to see the education system develop closer ties with trades and career options which you don’t need a degree for so the whole thing doesn’t seem like a direct path to University and doesn’t alienate those suited for other career paths.

This has been implemented for years through DEST and State Education Departments.

* I’d like to see the legalization of drugs so that it doesn’t put a majority of youth on the wrong side of the law.

This is a major generalisation. Majority on the wrong side of the law? Sorry, you’re just wrong here.

As for the rest, yep, I totally agree, some excellent initiatives in there and ones that any sane person would agree with. In fact, these initiatives would really help lower income families and possibly give them a hand up so that they may progress their development in either education or employment, which is a good thing.

However, I still don’t think that it would make much difference to social problems; crime, drugs, poverty simply because you have to genuinely want to change if you are to change. In the end the individual is responsible for taking any opportunity granted to him or her.

You can lead a horse to water sort of stuff. Those that genuinely want to drink will, but not all as sadly there exists people who will always choose to live outside societal norms and ideals.

(I’m not so sure what the gun laws have to do with anything so I’ll not comment on that)

you need to break the cycle. Kids that are being told at school that they will never amount to anything will either:
a) give up
b) try like hell to prove the teachers wrong
c) accept their lot until their circumstances change – usually for the worse

I fell into category b.

having dyslexia didn’t help.

I have managed to prove most of them wrong, and I am helping others do the same.

the home life of the average offender may be really bad, or a model family. It is down to their own set of values. If they believe that society owes them, they will expect everything on a platter. If they think no-one cares about them, they will shut out the world and care only about themselves.

if they can get away with theft, petty crime, and assault, they will continue to do so.

it is only when they receive intervention from either the authorities or another organisation that they may take stock of their lives and try to change. This is where the most effective work can be done.

If the person can be helped into society through a job, accommodation, etc, they have the chance to succeed in their lifestyle change.

Unfortunately, the govt’s focus over the years (and every govt, not just Labor) has been to throw money at the problem. This isn’t working.

The welfare system is a bloated tick that feeds on the taxpayer.

The outsourced Job Network should have been retained in the hands of the govt, the CES should never have been closed down, and it should still be a requisite to attend the CES once a week, with interview reports for at least 3 companies.

But, the question to reduce the amount of youth mixed up in crime is one that needs to be addressed to ensure that the cycle can be broken.

or a star-picket!

Deadmandrinking4:17 pm 29 Sep 08

And maybe the victim would have had a better chance of defending themselves…

Or broken glass, or a cricket bat, or a pillow.

I’d rather outlaw dangerous actions than dangerous things myself.

What if that gun had been secured in a sporting facility?

He probably would have used the new gucci weapon of choice, a knife.

Deadmandrinking4:09 pm 29 Sep 08

Maybe I was speaking from my own school experience, Thumper. On drugs and youth, you would be surprised. There are no reliable stats, that’s true, but there are a hell of a lot of youth taking drugs. You can’t do a civic stumble post midnight and tell me you can’t tell that ecstasy has a firm hold there, nor can you do high-school and college and tell me not every second person likes to get stoned off their tits.

You’re never going to completely remove crime. Human beings are assholes. However, if you tackle some of the factors that commonly build offenders, you’d logically reduce it.

On the gun thing, there was that murder in Lanyon where some bloke got his gun and went and blew his love-rival then himself away. What if that gun had been secured in a sporting facility?

I feel compelled to start singing in the rain!

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot3:38 pm 29 Sep 08

Granny said :

That’s just not funny. Who know’s what the truth is, but there’s nothing funny about rape or manslaughter or murder.

Never seen A Clockwork Orange?

I’d like to see the education system develop closer ties with trades and career options which you don’t need a degree for so the whole thing doesn’t seem like a direct path to University and doesn’t alienate those suited for other career paths.

This has been implemented for years through DEST and State Education Departments.

* I’d like to see the legalization of drugs so that it doesn’t put a majority of youth on the wrong side of the law.

This is a major generalisation. Majority on the wrong side of the law? Sorry, you’re just wrong here.

As for the rest, yep, I totally agree, some excellent initiatives in there and ones that any sane person would agree with. In fact, these initiatives would really help lower income families and possibly give them a hand up so that they may progress their development in either education or employment, which is a good thing.

However, I still don’t think that it would make much difference to social problems; crime, drugs, poverty simply because you have to genuinely want to change if you are to change. In the end the individual is responsible for taking any opportunity granted to him or her.

You can lead a horse to water sort of stuff. Those that genuinely want to drink will, but not all as sadly there exists people who will always choose to live outside societal norms and ideals.

(I’m not so sure what the gun laws have to do with anything so I’ll not comment on that)

Deadmandrinking3:19 pm 29 Sep 08

Special G said :

So DMD you are saying all these people are traumatised somewhere along the line – what a load of bollocks. I came up with a fuzzy touchy feely method in another thread. You came back with yeah that’s good and needs work.

What’s the DMD solution to social problems; crime, drugs, poverty. Come up with something meaningful here.

* I’d like to see more resources pooled into services for homeless youths. I’d like to see the government take back control of this area instead of contracting private companies that only seem to worry about saving and making money.

*I’d like to see the education system develop closer ties with trades and career options which you don’t need a degree for so the whole thing doesn’t seem like a direct path to University and doesn’t alienate those suited for other career paths.

*I’d like to see greater focus on rehabilitation and development of job-skills in our correctionial facilities (much like what you were suggesting, Special G – and EVERY suggestion needs work, so don’t carry on and whine).

* I’d like to see the legalization of drugs so that it doesn’t put a majority of youth on the wrong side of the law.

* I’d like to see a repeal of Labor’s latest loosening of our gun laws and have them further tightened to the point where guns can only be used and stored in shooting ranges, or specially day-loaned for hunting in predetermined areas.

* I’d like to see more public housing, especially in the light of our current rental situation in this city.

All of those would probably need a lot of work to finalize, that is how you get things right, Special G.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

So, the latest “word on the street” is that she tried to rape him, but he performed seppuku to retain honour?

All the samurai die young.

That’s just not funny. Who know’s what the truth is, but there’s nothing funny about rape or manslaughter or murder. Only a lot of people in pain right now.

Everyone would like the fringe dwellers to be working.

But noone wants to employ them.

So DMD you are saying all these people are traumatised somewhere along the line – what a load of bollocks. I came up with a fuzzy touchy feely method in another thread. You came back with yeah that’s good and needs work.

What’s the DMD solution to social problems; crime, drugs, poverty. Come up with something meaningful here.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot1:46 am 27 Sep 08

So, the latest “word on the street” is that she tried to rape him, but he performed seppuku to retain honour?

All the samurai die young.

Deadmandrinking12:20 am 27 Sep 08

Oh shush Special G, that answer’s tired as hell. Just throwing people in the workforce doesn’t help trauma (not saying that we shouldn’t help them get in, though).

Ralph, I would like to live in your world, but I have a brain.

Indeed G. According to DMD some more welfare from hard earned taxpayers is the solution, plus more free housing and medical. Toss in a sprinkle of liberalism towards promiscuity and drug ‘illness’, and we have a winner…..

tail

wags

dog

P.S. DMD, income is also inversely proportional to IQ. Violent crime is inversely proportional to IQ. Whhhhhaaaatttttt…….???? the science is dizzzzzzying…….

I don’t think it is as simple as Abuse = Crime.

Abuse – Drugs – Crime I could believe.

More handouts and making life easier is not going to make these people model citizens. Get them off their butt and working.

Deadmandrinking7:24 pm 26 Sep 08

Aw, no more VG for another 24 hours 🙁

Ralph, the people who are committing most of the violent crime in the US are the poor. The point I’m trying to make is that tougher sentencing does not stop crime. Working to help the poor and abused may prove a better solution.

While we’re making appeals to authority, I’ve seen another economist (Prof. Steven Leavitt) claim that reductions in crime rates had little to do with increased penalties (including the death penalties) or “broken windows” policies; but Roe vs Wade (i.e. the US Supreme Court decision allowing abortion).

His theory posits that Roe vs Wade reduced the birth rates of underprivileged kiddies who grew into criminal adults, as abortions are primarily performed on young, poor, single mothers.

He also stated that the explosion in crime in the 70’s and 80’s was largely down to a generation of neglected youth. When they grew up, they stopped committing crimes (crims tend to “grow out of it” eventually). As there were substantially fewer neglected youths to replace them, crime rates dropped right off. The fact this coincided with all the howling for harsher penalties is largely coincidental.

Woody Mann-Caruso3:51 pm 26 Sep 08

Great. I thpat Coke on my shirt.

Doctor Evil said :

An oldie, but a goodie….

After a big night out and a few drinks, Ita Buttrose finds herself bringing home a man for the night. That man happened to be Thor, the god of thunder, rain and farming in Norse mythology. Ita leads a horny Thor to her bedroom where they end up having rigorous sex that lasts for hours.

The next morning arrives, and a now sober Ita Buttrose looks beside her to see Thor in her bed. Shocked, she looks at him and says “Who are you?”

The man next to her replies.. “I am Thor”.

Ita replies.. “Hah, you think you’re thor, Im tho thor I can hardly walk.”

should have thor that coming…

An oldie, but a goodie….

After a big night out and a few drinks, Ita Buttrose finds herself bringing home a man for the night. That man happened to be Thor, the god of thunder, rain and farming in Norse mythology. Ita leads a horny Thor to her bedroom where they end up having rigorous sex that lasts for hours.

The next morning arrives, and a now sober Ita Buttrose looks beside her to see Thor in her bed. Shocked, she looks at him and says “Who are you?”

The man next to her replies.. “I am Thor”.

Ita replies.. “Hah, you think you’re thor, Im tho thor I can hardly walk.”

http://www.amazingcomics.it/thor5web.jpg

Oh great one, Smite the ones with questionable credibilty.

And because you clearly cannot read and comprehend, the News Limited article was quoting an economics professor.

And he may give me the gift of spelling properly.

johnboy said :

This Thor sounds like a sensible chap.

Mayeb if we pray to him and give him an offering he may fix up this thread for us.

How do you say Thor in Sudanese?

Ralph,
If you go back to Dr Evil’s comments, he’s quoting News Limited. And you’re attacking the credibility of a Amnesty source? Hysterical!
And since you mention it, yes, I am calling BS on your claims to a PhD.

Now you’re just being childish, accusing people of making things up. People around here that know me know my credentials – cetaintly don’t need to prove anything.

A good counter is the economics study quoted by Dr Evil. Amentesty once again just seeks to attack on the basis of ideology.

Would it be machete-wielding Sudanese committing most the crimes here Ralph, like over in your anti-refugee thread? Or would you like to cite something to counter Amnesty from your made-up doctorate?

Somebody quoting Amnesty International as an authoritative souce…..hahahahaha…… don’t make me laugh anymore. Softheads…

Who is doing most of the violent crime in the United States, Woody? Is Australia’s population composition similar? Just a thought.

This Thor sounds like a sensible chap.

Aurelius said :

Peterh,
Whirlpool’s full of geek whingers going on about stuff they know nothing about.
RiotACT’s totally different…… because……. (help me out here someone?)

yeah, but I got modded for a post i wasn’t even on. Thor refused to review and I got another 2 days for asking.

Woody Mann-Caruso2:32 pm 26 Sep 08

That’s why I’m glad we have the death penalty here in Australia. The only reason our homicide rate is four times lower than the US is because we’re free and easy with the noose. Our liberal handgun laws also keep us safe in our homes – if it wasn’t for them, why, some negro might take my television and have his way with my wife.

This graph makes it toally clear how the death penalty is tied to homicide rates. See how it went up in the 70s after they got rid of capital puishment? It’s just like Texas. Eventually it was as high as the first part of the century when they…erm, had capital punishme..wait, I was going somewhere with this…and then in the eighties it spiked because…um…and now it’s down again because of 9/11, or Kevin Rudd, or something.

Berlina,
When Sydney was settled, there was a similar debate whether the penal colony was a place of punishment (being away from home was the punishment) or a place for punishment (while you’re here, you should be punished in addition to the deprivation of your liberties). I believe the British leadership at the time leant toward the former. Although the Royal Marines in the new colony tended to have an opposing view.
Remarkable how it seems the same differentiation is with us two centuries later. Isn’t it vg?
And Dr Evil, if you’re going to cite Harris County Texas, I refer you to the Amnesty International report on that county, which outlines how the prosecutors in that county have been criticised by several other courts for their inappropriate pursuit of the death penalty, especially in the cases of Willie Williams & Joseph Nichols.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy2:12 pm 26 Sep 08

Are the root causes of crime even a useful way to attack the problem (genuine question here)? Perhaps it’s more about the role models they have as kids?

I still think we have the wrong view of gaol. I don’t think it’s about ‘punishing’, but rather about putting a barrier between those who do the right thing and those who don’t.

A snippet from an opinion piece on the News Limited site today:

In Harris County, Texas, where executions are most aggressively carried out, there has been a 72 per cent decrease in the annual murder rate since 1982.

In the US, which suffered an explosion of crime and urban breakdown in the mid-1970s at the same time its Supreme Court ruled against the death penalty (later overturned), you are now less likely to be murdered than in 1960.

University of Colorado economics professor Naci Mocan conducted a study on more than 6000 death sentences in the US between 1977 and 1997. His findings suggest that every execution meant five or six extra murders were not committed.

“Science does really draw a conclusion … The results are robust,” Mocan said.

Peterh,
Whirlpool’s full of geek whingers going on about stuff they know nothing about.
RiotACT’s totally different…… because……. (help me out here someone?)

Aurelius said :

Is ‘moderation’ a new status symbol around here?
I wonder if it’s something to aspire to 🙂

don’t ask for it – just got out of whirlpool moderation, didn’t know what i did.

Is ‘moderation’ a new status symbol around here?
I wonder if it’s something to aspire to 🙂

Thumper said :

Yes, but just wait for a few hundred years and some shaven head frenchies will kick their arse.

like that will ever happen. first sign of trouble and they seem to go to pieces. they need anglo saxon leadership.

Yes, but just wait for a few hundred years and some shaven head frenchies will kick their arse.

So do i have to keep an eye out for blond haired sudanese fellows with northern european accents?

Oh, it was just getting interesting…

And VG’s back into moderation after just 24 hours of freedom.

Setting new records for anti-social behaviour on RiotACT.

Deadmandrinking said :

vg said :

It’s clear you’ve never visited the USA. I’ll take my info from having spent time with police there.

You asked for stats and you get ’em, but they aren’t the ones you want.

NY has more murders than Canberra per capita. NY has more murders than Sydney per capita. The only places in Australia that may exceed that are in the Northern Territory, which have tougher and mandatory sentencing.

Your point has been taken to a river, shot in the head, weighed down and tossed in, NY style. Go home you wannabe NY cop.

PeterH, I get your point and I will say, and have said, that not all people who have been abused or subject to violence and instability as children turn to crime. I admire those who don’t. However, there is evidence that many, many low-level criminals have suffered abuse as children. Note the order of the words. It doesn’t go the other way around. Not all aboriginals are criminals, but it is safe to say that the gap between aboriginals and the rest of society are great in terms of advantage. Impoverished environments breed crime. One cannot expect everyone to pull through the way stronger people in those environments have.

Why would I want to be a NY cop?

Less pay, worse conditions, poorer equipment, less career opportunities.

NY has more murders but when was the last murder conviction in Canberra?

Go back to school you coward. When you want to play the ball and not the man I will engage you. You are just a spineless piece of internet sh1t

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot1:10 pm 26 Sep 08

PBO said :

How do you know this? Are you a cop? And if so why are you creating potential biase towards the deceased?

The word on the street is that he was involved with Sudanese Vikings.

Deadmandrinking1:10 pm 26 Sep 08

No, he lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington.

I thought Mr Qaeda lived in a modest flat in downtown Lebanon.

I assumed Al-Qaeda was the made-up one

Deadmandrinking12:53 pm 26 Sep 08

peterh said :

eyeball, 3 post nutbag again?

are you sure there are only 2 that exist? seem pretty knowledgeable…

(I spelled Al-Qaeda wrong, but don’t spoil the fun).

eyeball, 3 post nutbag again?

are you sure there are only 2 that exist? seem pretty knowledgeable…

Deadmandrinking12:49 pm 26 Sep 08

Which means you have problems.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot12:47 pm 26 Sep 08

Deadmandrinking said :

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

vg said :

It’s clear you’ve never visited the USA.

It’s clear that you shouldn’t make assumptions.

I’ve spent a fair amount of my past twenty years in Brooklyn, Detroit, Kansas City, Seattle, Portland and couches in San Francisco, Santa Cruz and Los Angeles.

So, what else don’t you know about me?

It’s clear you’re in the KKK. And Al-Queda. And the Blue Man Group.

And only two of those exist.

Deadmandrinking12:46 pm 26 Sep 08

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

vg said :

It’s clear you’ve never visited the USA.

It’s clear that you shouldn’t make assumptions.

I’ve spent a fair amount of my past twenty years in Brooklyn, Detroit, Kansas City, Seattle, Portland and couches in San Francisco, Santa Cruz and Los Angeles.

So, what else don’t you know about me?

It’s clear you’re in the KKK. And Al-Queda. And the Blue Man Group.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot12:40 pm 26 Sep 08

vg said :

It’s clear you’ve never visited the USA.

It’s clear that you shouldn’t make assumptions.

I’ve spent a fair amount of my past twenty years in Brooklyn, Detroit, Kansas City, Seattle, Portland and couches in San Francisco, Santa Cruz and Los Angeles.

So, what else don’t you know about me?

Deadmandrinking said :

vg said :

It’s clear you’ve never visited the USA. I’ll take my info from having spent time with police there.

You asked for stats and you get ’em, but they aren’t the ones you want.

NY has more murders than Canberra per capita. NY has more murders than Sydney per capita. The only places in Australia that may exceed that are in the Northern Territory, which have tougher and mandatory sentencing.

Your point has been taken to a river, shot in the head, weighed down and tossed in, NY style. Go home you wannabe NY cop.

PeterH, I get your point and I will say, and have said, that not all people who have been abused or subject to violence and instability as children turn to crime. I admire those who don’t. However, there is evidence that many, many low-level criminals have suffered abuse as children. Note the order of the words. It doesn’t go the other way around. Not all aboriginals are criminals, but it is safe to say that the gap between aboriginals and the rest of society are great in terms of advantage. Impoverished environments breed crime. One cannot expect everyone to pull through the way stronger people in those environments have.

DMD,

I was incensed by the implication by WMC that I was scooped up in a net of redneck KKK supporters. You will notice i didn’t defend myself as not being a redneck, I did grow up for the best part of my childhood in Charnwood, after all.

when I was a kid, charnwood and kambah would have been identified as the 2 slum – type environments. In fact, the 10 yr (1996) Charnwood high reunion was a good game of “where are they now” and it wasn’t a case of such and such has moved to….., more along the lines of how many were dead, in jail or had actually managed to move away and become model citizens.

Most of the people I went to school with have gone on to great things. Some have passed away, or are in jail, though, and i wonder what their family lives were like to drive them to those levels of desperation.

Deadmandrinking12:16 pm 26 Sep 08

vg said :

It’s clear you’ve never visited the USA. I’ll take my info from having spent time with police there.

You asked for stats and you get ’em, but they aren’t the ones you want.

NY has more murders than Canberra per capita. NY has more murders than Sydney per capita. The only places in Australia that may exceed that are in the Northern Territory, which have tougher and mandatory sentencing.

Your point has been taken to a river, shot in the head, weighed down and tossed in, NY style. Go home you wannabe NY cop.

PeterH, I get your point and I will say, and have said, that not all people who have been abused or subject to violence and instability as children turn to crime. I admire those who don’t. However, there is evidence that many, many low-level criminals have suffered abuse as children. Note the order of the words. It doesn’t go the other way around. Not all aboriginals are criminals, but it is safe to say that the gap between aboriginals and the rest of society are great in terms of advantage. Impoverished environments breed crime. One cannot expect everyone to pull through the way stronger people in those environments have.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Everyone knows that murder capital of the world is Santa Maria. Havent you seen The Lost Boys?

You obviously haven’t in a while if you think it’s called Santa Maria.

I now return you to your regularly-scheduled carrying on like a clan of inbred, pigf.cking, redneck Klan boys. I look forward to hearing about how all corrupt coppers are Aborigines, as are the filthy rich who’ve plundered their shareholders.

WMC,

try not to tar us all with the same brush.

I was abused as a child – it has given me the strength to ensure that it does not happen to my kids, or other kids in the community, through my work with organisations like youth insearch, the YMCA and others.

I have had thoughts about hunting down and hurting my abuser, but as he has been locked up for other crimes and my testimony, I don’t even think of him.

I have several mates who are aboriginals, from my days in darwin. They are hard working people, some are doctors, lawyers or tradies. They are amazed at the attitude of canberrans towards aboriginals, and are disgusted with the tent embassy. They think it is a joke.

They come to canberra to visit me, and we ensure that they have a fun holiday (usually warning them to come to canberra in summer, not winter).

The telopea park murder isn’t something that i dwell upon, I have far too much on my plate for that.

I just found that it was strange that a chef’s apprentice would be drinking in fithy’s with his knife roll. most chefs and apprentices I know have them locked up in the kitchen or in the boot of their cars, out of sight.

oh, and How dare you call me a KLANSMAN!!

try living in an aboriginal community, there are plenty of bad people, as well as good, but it is the same as any other town or city in australia.

I have no hatred towards any person based on their religion, skin colour or sexual orientation. I prefer to live and let live.

I live by the golden rule….

He with the gold, makes the rules…

Monday’s Experts always know what’s best
Always tell you what you should’ve done
Monday’s Experts always know what’s cooking
How the game was lost and how its could’ve been won

When Monday comes around everyone’s an expert in my town
When Monday comes on by everyone’s an expert to his guy
When Monday comes along everyone’s an expert on my song
Monday’s Experts

Sorry about all the Italic’s, dont know what happened there.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Everyone knows that murder capital of the world is Santa Maria. Havent you seen The Lost Boys?

You obviously haven’t in a while if you think it’s called Santa Maria.

quote]

If memory serves me, It was San Dimas, California. And if all the bodies buried around there were to stand up they would have one hell of a population problem.

But seriously, rumour-mongering aside. If she did stab him to death then she should be charged.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

Emlyn Ward said :

The victim was a nice hard-working kid from a nice family and the knife story is a complete load of cobblers.
Why would he be at Filthy’s, drinking, with a roll of knives under his arm? Ludicrous.

I am appalled that the perpetrator of this heinous crime has been allowed freedom to roam the streets on nothing more than her say-so that he attacked her first.

This one is straight out of a bizarre Hollywood psycho-drama film-plot. Mark my words.

I heard the kid was a rapist. *shrug*

How do you know this? Are you a cop? And if so why are you creating potential biase towards the deceased?

Woody Mann-Caruso11:10 am 26 Sep 08

Everyone knows that murder capital of the world is Santa Maria. Havent you seen The Lost Boys?

You obviously haven’t in a while if you think it’s called Santa Maria.

I now return you to your regularly-scheduled carrying on like a clan of inbred, pigf.cking, redneck Klan boys. I look forward to hearing about how all corrupt coppers are Aborigines, as are the filthy rich who’ve plundered their shareholders.

It’s clear you’ve never visited the USA. I’ll take my info from having spent time with police there.

You asked for stats and you get ’em, but they aren’t the ones you want.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot2:01 am 26 Sep 08

vg said :

In many parts of New York street crime is virtually eradicated, largely through the ‘Broken Windows’ methodology of policing and law enforcement which involved intervening at a lower level to prevent crime of a greater level. You see I know these things because I actually work in the environment, not take a juvenile ‘I hate ‘the man” attitude into everything I do.

In the years that I’ve spent living in New York there’s been absolutely no street crime whatsoever.

People address each other in a polite manner every day. The streets are sparkling clean and there’s an aroma of cinnamon in the air.

It is a common site in the Bronx to see the Puerto Ricans, the Jews and the Irish engaging in warm, public displays of affection amongst one another.

As for Detroit. I’ve spent a great deal of time there due to family.

8 Mile? That’s an enchanting candy coated lane where children dance in the streets, and the traffic doesn’t stop at red lights for fear of being showered in the love that surrounds the place.

Canberra really has a long way to go. Especially with these sword-wielding Sudanese maniacs that Ralph has been talking about.

The bodies are just piling up in the streets.

Deadmandrinking11:58 pm 25 Sep 08

Vg, in the US, the poor are more segregated from the rich. There are many places in the US with lower crime than here, true, but then again, there are many that have much higher crime than most places here (bar small-town indigenous communities which tend to obscure statistics a little because of population). Is there anywhere like Detroit, St Louis or South Central Los Angeles in Australia? I don’t think so.

The NY solution was effective, but it’s important to note that NY has a lot more cops than say, Los Angeles, which has the three-strikes law. The murder rate in California is still stupidly high. There were 2,260 murders in California last year. There are 35 million people in that state. Compare that to Australia’s 21 million and around 300ish murders. Big difference. On that note, NY state had 801 for a population of almost 20 million…

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm (Cali’s also in there, don’t want this to be modded).

Based on these numbers, would Australia need a NY solution? More police I’d take, but I highly doubt tougher sentencing will do much.

Deadmandrinking said :

And what is VG backing that up with?

How come many criminals tend to claim they’ve been abused, which is magically backed up.

I am backing that up with nigh on 20 years of experience in dealing with these people as opposed to your 0.

How many criminals claim to be abused in the ACT, have to taken a step inside the Courts to see? Of all the matters I’ve personally dealt with through our courts none, thats a big fat zero, claimed to have been abused as kids. Raised every other excuse in the world, but not the one that people think they do.

Just about every single one of them I have dealt with are only ever sorry when they are caught, because of they were truly sorry they wouldn;t have done it in the first place. But, in any case, is being abused as a child a direct cause of crime. How does one get from being abused as a child to performing an armed robbery? Where is the psychological leap there? The two crime types are mutually exclusive.

Also even funnier how people will only genuinely try and rehabilitate and/or seek counselling for their ‘issues’ when the judicial process swings into motion. Never hear them say, ‘geez, I’m an angry young man, maybe I’ll get some counselling before I do something silly’. No, its always after the event.

This stuff that every crook claims they have been abused as kids when they go to Court is a myth. Yes, one or two do but its not the lemming like flow of humanity that people like DMD who obviously gets his stats from the populist press would like to believe. But sh1t, of course a guy who studies would know more about it than a guy who’s done it for 20 years, that’s logical……right?

Grow up DMD, you’ll be all the better for it

Deadmandrinking said :

vg said :

And what would that root cause be?

Poverty…..no, Plenty of law abiders amongst the poor
Abuse as a child…………..no, still plenty abused as kids who move on to lead productive lives
Boredom……..more to do than when I was a kid
Unemployment………..actually quite easy to get paid work nowadays. Might not be the job you want but it will do until you get it.

Its not a secret. The majority, vast majority of people who commit crimes are selfish, uncaring turds. Care for nothing else other than themselves or some sort of instant gratification.

But your broad life and work experience would lead you to believe otherwise wouldn’t it comrade?

There’s even law-abiders amongst the selfish, uncaring turds. Riot-act is testament to that.

Not all people who were abused as children go on to commit crime, but that does not mean it could be a cause in many, many cases. Here’s a little fact for you to deny and accuse people of being communist over – We have more indigenous people behind bars in this country than any other in the world, and 1 in 2 indigenous people suffer abuse as children. So, hmmm…let’s get our thinking caps on now, I’ll lend you one; could these factors be related?

OK, so thinking cap on.

So, by what you’re saying, then 1 in 2 of indigenous folk should be in prison because they committed crime because they were abused? Is 50% of the indigenous population incarcerated. Ah……no

By the way, where did you get those abuse facts from? Corn Flakes packet?

You’re one of those people that has an excuse for everything and everyone. Oh he had his lunch money taken by a bully when he was 11 you know, hence the schoolground massacre

The US has ‘more’ raw crime data because of their population. In many areas of the US the crime is, per capita, lower than many parts of Australia. This is particularly so for our higher burglary and motor vehicle theft rates compared to large communities like San Francisco. In many parts of New York street crime is virtually eradicated, largely through the ‘Broken Windows’ methodology of policing and law enforcement which involved intervening at a lower level to prevent crime of a greater level. You see I know these things because I actually work in the environment, not take a juvenile ‘I hate ‘the man” attitude into everything I do.

Spend some time dealing with victims of crime and the often depraved, uncaring, selfish and inhuman acts perpetrated on them and I guarantee your attitude would change. But until you finish school, get an actual full-time job and assimilate with the adult community on a 24/7 basis this isn’t likely to happen. I would love to stand on the sidelines and watch you, in a bar, tell all and sundry how life should work from your perspective, and then……..actually don’t worry about it, you wouldn’t have the stones to do it.

Grow up DMD. You’ll be the better person for it

Deadmandrinking11:20 pm 25 Sep 08

And what is VG backing that up with?

How come many criminals tend to claim they’ve been abused, which is magically backed up.

As VG said:

vg said :

The majority, vast majority of people who commit crimes are selfish, uncaring turds. Care for nothing else other than themselves or some sort of instant gratification.?

There are ample oppurtunities for these scum to deal with the “root cause” but they choose not to accept those options. Crime is a much easier option for them.

Deadmandrinking11:03 pm 25 Sep 08

bigfeet said :

DMD are you using riotact as a reference to get the next vacancy on the ACT judiciary?

Your …’no-one is responsible for their own actions’…and… ‘it’s all societies fault’…attitude is not enough.

If you really want the job you need to start blaming the victims.

‘How dare they have a house…with property…that needs to stolen…the bastards’ That sort of thing.

You are close…but not close enough to get the job in the ACT.

I might be close, but you are so far away I wonder why you’re allowed out of your house sometimes. It’s not about blaming the victims, it’s about identifying the root causes and dealing with them instead of reacting with the most simplistic solution proposed and wondering why it happens over and over and over and over again.

The US is a solid example of why tougher sentencing does not work. They have tougher sentences than Australia. They have more crime. You do the math.

No Bigfeet.
DMD is using Riotact as a place to spew forth all the extra goodness that overflows from the giant ‘thinktank’ he calls the brain. We are the lucky benificiaries of that excess funk. Enjoy!
Anyhoo *yawn* Im going to bed.
PS. Ralph. Everyone knows that murder capital of the world is Santa Maria. Havent you seen The Lost Boys ? :p

DMD are you using riotact as a reference to get the next vacancy on the ACT judiciary?

Your …’no-one is responsible for their own actions’…and… ‘it’s all societies fault’…attitude is not enough.

If you really want the job you need to start blaming the victims. ‘How dare they have a house…with property…that needs to stolen…the bastards’ That sort of thing.

You are close…but not close enough to get the job in the ACT.

Deadmandrinking10:19 pm 25 Sep 08

So, to mix your previous statements Ralph, you’re suggesting that Indigenous people are inherently stupid? Shouldn’t you be on stormfront? I thought Riot-Act would be a bit tame for your tastes.

With the US, it depends on what kind of crime. Lot of white-collar going on there as well as the gang-related stuff. Not all gangs there are Black or Mexican anyway.

Indeed.

And who is doing most of the crime in the United States, DMD?

Could be that there are simply more indigenous crooks – just playing the stats

Deadmandrinking9:40 pm 25 Sep 08

Ralph said :

Criminality is inversely proportional to IQ, and IQ is largely heritable.

Then don’t have kids.

Criminality is inversely proportional to IQ, and IQ is largely heritable.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

And all public servants spend their weekends paying dwarves to crawl up into their assholes.

TRUE.

Which department do you work for Eyeball?

Deadmandrinking9:04 pm 25 Sep 08

vg said :

And what would that root cause be?

Poverty…..no, Plenty of law abiders amongst the poor
Abuse as a child…………..no, still plenty abused as kids who move on to lead productive lives
Boredom……..more to do than when I was a kid
Unemployment………..actually quite easy to get paid work nowadays. Might not be the job you want but it will do until you get it.

Its not a secret. The majority, vast majority of people who commit crimes are selfish, uncaring turds. Care for nothing else other than themselves or some sort of instant gratification.

But your broad life and work experience would lead you to believe otherwise wouldn’t it comrade?

There’s even law-abiders amongst the selfish, uncaring turds. Riot-act is testament to that.

Not all people who were abused as children go on to commit crime, but that does not mean it could be a cause in many, many cases. Here’s a little fact for you to deny and accuse people of being communist over – We have more indigenous people behind bars in this country than any other in the world, and 1 in 2 indigenous people suffer abuse as children. So, hmmm…let’s get our thinking caps on now, I’ll lend you one; could these factors be related?

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot8:50 pm 25 Sep 08

vg said :

Its not a secret. The majority, vast majority of people who commit crimes are selfish, uncaring turds. Care for nothing else other than themselves or some sort of instant gratification.

And all public servants spend their weekends paying dwarves to crawl up into their assholes.

TRUE.

vg said :

The majority, vast majority of people who commit crimes are selfish, uncaring turds. Care for nothing else other than themselves or some sort of instant gratification.

Never a truer word spoken.

squashee said :

Interesting.. This is very close to the story I was told in the days after the incident. But I was also told they were both quite incapacitated. And Dalryk’s story matches what I have heard.

What is going to happen to Filthy’s now? They have “allegedly” supplied alcohol to a minor who has gone on to “allegedly” commit a crime. Good publicity?

The same thing that happens to every other bar that purveys alcohol to minors……nothing

And what would that root cause be?

Poverty…..no, Plenty of law abiders amongst the poor
Abuse as a child…………..no, still plenty abused as kids who move on to lead productive lives
Boredom……..more to do than when I was a kid
Unemployment………..actually quite easy to get paid work nowadays. Might not be the job you want but it will do until you get it.

Its not a secret. The majority, vast majority of people who commit crimes are selfish, uncaring turds. Care for nothing else other than themselves or some sort of instant gratification.

But your broad life and work experience would lead you to believe otherwise wouldn’t it comrade?

Deadmandrinking6:56 pm 25 Sep 08

Ralph said :

We might as well be the murder capital; with our liberal magistrates hardly sending signals that you will be punished harshly.

Except that would have to involve, I don’t know, people actually murdering people at a high rate. There are far more places in Australia, with tougher sentencing, that experience higher murder rates. The United states has high sentences for murder, yet they have a much higher rate.

Assuming that tougher sentencing for every crime causes them to drop is ill-thought out and blatantly moronic, yet, sadly, it seems to be the platform for every half-arsed pollie. Tackling the root causes of crime anyone?

And a CAP candidate.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot6:14 pm 25 Sep 08

And a Nazi sympathiser.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot6:09 pm 25 Sep 08

Emlyn Ward said :

The victim was a nice hard-working kid from a nice family and the knife story is a complete load of cobblers.
Why would he be at Filthy’s, drinking, with a roll of knives under his arm? Ludicrous.

I am appalled that the perpetrator of this heinous crime has been allowed freedom to roam the streets on nothing more than her say-so that he attacked her first.

This one is straight out of a bizarre Hollywood psycho-drama film-plot. Mark my words.

I heard the kid was a rapist. *shrug*

peterh said :

but then, I know nothing about the victim, or in what state his knives were in.

it just seems that the numbers of murders in canberra have increased in the last 10 years.

not a very good trend…

The victim was a nice hard-working kid from a nice family and the knife story is a complete load of cobblers.
Why would he be at Filthy’s, drinking, with a roll of knives under his arm? Ludicrous.

I am appalled that the perpetrator of this heinous crime has been allowed freedom to roam the streets on nothing more than her say-so that he attacked her first.

This one is straight out of a bizarre Hollywood psycho-drama film-plot. Mark my words.

Sorry, Evil, but it’s just not the same … *sigh*

Thankyou Mr Evil

Mr Evil for nutbag of the month!

Aurelius said :

I am just wondering how it is that a murder can happen in this city, we talk about it on RiotACT, several weeks go by, but no caps-typing nutjob who claimed to know one of the affected people has come here and abused us all?
What’s this city coming to?

THE PIGS DID IT AND THE GUY ON THE GRASSY KNOLL AND ME MATES DONE TOLD ME THEY SEEN IT ALL TO. THE TRUTH WILL BE TOLD.

There, does they make you feel better, Aurelius? 😉

I am just wondering how it is that a murder can happen in this city, we talk about it on RiotACT, several weeks go by, but no caps-typing nutjob who claimed to know one of the affected people has come here and abused us all?
What’s this city coming to?

Interesting.. This is very close to the story I was told in the days after the incident. But I was also told they were both quite incapacitated. And Dalryk’s story matches what I have heard.

What is going to happen to Filthy’s now? They have “allegedly” supplied alcohol to a minor who has gone on to “allegedly” commit a crime. Good publicity?

johnboy said :

peterh said :

if she stabbed the guy with his own knives, he must have been incapacitated. takes a bit of time to unroll a knife bag if you aren’t familiar with it. and why weren’t the knives scattered around the murder site? seems too clean to me.

That’s a huge assumption to make based on no information at all.

I can think of dozens of scenarios where it *could* have worked out this way, but let’s wait and see what comes out in court eh?

this is my personal opinion:

she probably knew nothing about the knife set, which may have been true, or was well acquainted with them. It may be that she was attacked by the victim, or not. as you say, the full details will come out in court, but as I am an ex Kitchen hand, and have seen the care most chef’s apprentices take with their knives, I find it surprising that a knife was the murder weapon. a standard knife bag or roll – depends on what chef calls it, is set up to ensure the knives don’t come in contact and blunt.

but then, I know nothing about the victim, or in what state his knives were in.

it just seems that the numbers of murders in canberra have increased in the last 10 years.

not a very good trend…

We might as well be the murder capital; with our liberal magistrates hardly sending signals that you will be punished harshly.

peterh said :

if she stabbed the guy with his own knives, he must have been incapacitated. takes a bit of time to unroll a knife bag if you aren’t familiar with it. and why weren’t the knives scattered around the murder site? seems too clean to me.

That’s a huge assumption to make based on no information at all.

I can think of dozens of scenarios where it *could* have worked out this way, but let’s wait and see what comes out in court eh?

Case closed. Peter has spoken.

dalryk said :

word on the street is (and this is just the street mind, don’t go letting it cloud your potential juror minds) – that the girl in question stabbed the guy with his own chef’s knives, and admitted as much to the police, but claims it was self-defence cause he was trying to molest her or something.

don’t know how a DNA test would help sort that out one way or the other, but again, that’s just the word on the street….

if she stabbed the guy with his own knives, he must have been incapacitated. takes a bit of time to unroll a knife bag if you aren’t familiar with it. and why weren’t the knives scattered around the murder site? seems too clean to me.

Quiet night and chances are she looks old enough, I doubt anyone would have thought to ask her.

I’d say that this 17yo did the same thing, peterh – but now that her identity is clearly known to police, and Filthy’s staff/patrons have obviously confirmed that she was present and drinking, her likely lie to get in/drink has been exposed.

word on the street is (and this is just the street mind, don’t go letting it cloud your potential juror minds) – that the girl in question stabbed the guy with his own chef’s knives, and admitted as much to the police, but claims it was self-defence cause he was trying to molest her or something.

don’t know how a DNA test would help sort that out one way or the other, but again, that’s just the word on the street….

johnboy said :

No 17 year olds drinking in pubs in your day?

Like hell.

at least we lied about our ages. and our addresses. and, come to think of it, our names….

No 17 year olds drinking in pubs in your day?

Like hell.

hang on, why is a 17yo drinking in fithy mcfaddens?

and what were they drinking?

bit of a strange case, this one. Makes you wonder what the hell has happened to canberra, never was this bad when I was a kid…

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