Another Nazi woman in Canberra - Hello Mrs Hoover

peterh said :

christianity is deemed an irrational religious cult by atheists and muslims, and vice versa. the advanced civilisation of which you speak would be barbarism. no gods, deities, etc, etc. we would probably all be jedi – a religion that makes some sense.

You’ve not got your thinking cap on. What is “rational” is not a matter of opinion.

And your assertion that a world without religion would be “barbarism” is self-refuting by reference to the unashamed barbarism that passes for “holy texts” in these religions as well as being refuted by the following research:

“Journal of Religion and Society”
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies”

If one is under twenty- five and is not a socialist, he has no heart; if one is over 25 and still a socialist he had no head.

It’s funny because it’s true.

Indeed it is. Ralph was once of the left, but eventually got both educated and grew out of it.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

If one is under twenty- five and is not a socialist, he has no heart; if one is over 25 and still a socialist he had no head.

It’s funny because it’s true.

I’ve always hated that phrase. It reeks of the false dichotomy that socialism is the nice and fairy dance around the maypoll generous big hearted philosophy, and that anti- socialism is very hard hearted and mean and cold and cruel but unfortunately that’s how the world works.

I’m sorry but I do not equate the initiation of force and the subjugation of the individual to a rampant collective mass ready to feast on anything that sticks it head out with generosity.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

If one is under twenty- five and is not a socialist, he has no heart; if one is over 25 and still a socialist he had no head.

It’s funny because it’s true.

I think it’s more because people become heartless once they have a mortgage.

If one is under twenty- five and is not a socialist, he has no heart; if one is over 25 and still a socialist he had no head.

It’s funny because it’s true.

Emlyn Ward said :

This ruling is excellent!

If we can get the law to go a little further down this path, we can have parents legally prevented from indoctrinating their children into whichever irrational religious cult they belong to.

Such a law would usher in a new era of advanced civilisation.

right, and there would be a lot of people, would there?

christianity is deemed an irrational religious cult by atheists and muslims, and vice versa. the advanced civilisation of which you speak would be barbarism. no gods, deities, etc, etc. we would probably all be jedi – a religion that makes some sense.

neanderthalsis: Jews consider themselves a race.

Race being a rather slippery concept in all honesty, I’m not going to argue (especially as I want to join that race).

Also: Neanderthalsis is a libertarian like me and considers that to be the centre. Yet more evidence that the unidimensional political spectrum is useless.

neanderthalsis: Jews consider themselves a race.

Race being a rather slippery concept in all honesty, I’m not going to argue (especially as I want to join that race).

Also: Neanderthalsis is a libertarian like me and considers that to be the centre. Yet more evidence that the unidimensional political spectrum is useless.

Neanderthalis, Jewish people were an ethnic group in Germany. Plus, it wasn’t just Jewish people who were executed under the Nazi Regime. They made a substantial number, but there were many, many other ethnic and religious groups.

Capitalist Junkies go to the right, I am sorry to tell you. Those who believe that the market and corporations should exist with minimal government regulation are the lifeblood of conservatism in this day and age. The economic situation we are facing now (and the many similar situations that have preceded it) is a clear indication that such idealogy is a failure and that progression must be made.

Rascists among the poor need education. They certainly do not represent their socio-demographic as a whole either. They need to understand the factors that have brought them where they are. Some do rise up against their capitalist oppressors and better their society.

farnarkler said :

Thumper if thought police existed we’d all be guilty.

Sadly not all of us are guilty of thought…

farnarkler said :

Thumper if thought police existed we’d all be guilty.

Now *that* sounds very much like an admission…

Thumper if thought police existed we’d all be guilty.

Deadmandrinking said :

He 9Hitler) wanted a white europe, which it pretty much was a few hundred years before. Therefore, his ideals were conservative.

DMD, last time I checked, Judeaism was a religion, not a race. Antisemitism is not quite the same as racism.

On the right, the conservative, you have, among many other ideals, the religious wackos and the capitalism junkies.

Most of us capitalism junkies fall into the centre of the spectrum. We tend to believe in freedom of trade and freedom for the individual. basically speaking, libertarians.

The right does tend to get a bit clogged up with the religious nutters in much the same way as the left attracts frothing at the mouth Trotskyists who go into palpitations whenever the Government suggests that lifting tarrifs in the auto industry might be a good thing…

You might like to broaden your horizons by reading some Hayek, try his essay “Why I am not a not a conservative” or the Road to Serfdom.

Another faction among the right is the ignorant racists. These people can be interchangeable with the religeous wacko, but in short, don’t care much about foreign relations, the economy etc. All they care about is that life sucks and that it’s all someone else’s fault. This is because a good number of them develop among the poor (though it is fundamental to note that they certainly do not represent a majority of the poor), have a severe lack of education and have grown up in areas where people tend to stick around their own. Since their problems are usually not actually caused by them (usually being the result of Capitalism), they tend to blame other groups that stick to their own in their area, since, due to a combination of lack of education and simply not giving a sh-t, they haven’t looked at the greater issues

Sounds almost like the Marxist definition of the proletariat (or some of the more militant trade unionists). You’re describing the very heart of socialisn, the demographic that freier told us we must educate so they can rise up against their capitalist oppressors.

If one is under twenty- five and is not a socialist, he has no heart; if one is over 25 and still a socialist he had no head.

Indoctrinating children into irrational and dishonest political/religious views should be counted as *child abuse*, not “opinion”.

Emlyn Ward said :

This ruling is excellent!

If we can get the law to go a little further down this path, we can have parents legally prevented from indoctrinating their children into whichever irrational religious cult they belong to.

Such a law would usher in a new era of advanced civilisation.

Yeah and after that we can eliminate all the other ‘irrational’ belief systems.

Like I said earlier, Jews for the Protection of Firearm Ownership, http://www.jpfo.org.

What about atheism?

This seems pretty ridiculous to me. People will always have differing opinions – it’s how they behave that counts.

Including islamic fanaticism Emlyn?

This ruling is excellent!

If we can get the law to go a little further down this path, we can have parents legally prevented from indoctrinating their children into whichever irrational religious cult they belong to.

Such a law would usher in a new era of advanced civilisation.

I didn’t care really as long as I was far away from anything conservative! Absolute power corrupts absolutely as they say, they’re basically all crooks.

peterh said :

Hells_Bells74 said :

I took the test too and my dot landed between Mandela and The Dalai Lama.. Awesome! Cool test. (I wouldn’t have said that if it likened me to Hitler)

you might not have cared…

Hehehe too right!

Oh I completely forgot to comment on the actual story.

Nazism is an abhorrent collectivist ideology and goes against everything I stand for. However you play a very dangerous game when you start to define what parents can and can’t teach their children.

Some consider my libertarianism as an extremist ideology. Our ability to freely teach our children is a very important thing to hold on to and I do not view a Government cleansed and approved belief system to be particularly appealing. To give the Government this power is a very dangerous thing. Jews of all people should know this as they have been subjugated across the ages and across societies. They are a minority and the sites have been on them more than anyone else.

Let them engage in the battle of ideas because a child past seven can change and the truth does win in an open discussion.

And they should also join Jews for the Protection of Firearm Ownership http://www.jpfo.org just in case. 😉

Hells_Bells74 said :

I took the test too and my dot landed between Mandela and The Dalai Lama.. Awesome! Cool test. (I wouldn’t have said that if it likened me to Hitler)

you might not have cared…

I would be pissed off if the test had put me anywhere near Mandela and the Dalai Lama:-)

I was right in the centre. or was that left in the centre?

I took the test too and my dot landed between Mandela and The Dalai Lama.. Awesome! Cool test. (I wouldn’t have said that if it likened me to Hitler)

The one dimensional political spectrum is the greatest intellectual crime ever committed on the world. It by its very existence has made people infinitely more stupid than they should be.
[
quote comment=”202715″]While “Nazi” is an abbreviation of the german for National Socialist, the Nazis were to socialism what the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is to democracy.

The two ends of the political spectrum communism and fascism share similar charcteristics – such as centralisation, bureaucratisition and state control – but they are funadamentally opposed philosophically.

To add to what Jimcool said above, National Socialism is broadly categorised as a fascistic system. I have some problems with that (there was certainly corporatism but there were socialistic characteristics to the system). Ultimately, I think Jimcools statement fails because he attempts to put fascism at the far right of some unidimensional political axis and communism at the far left. However to be more accurate, looking at state socialism, there are philosophical differences however it is in reality merely a structural difference. They are both totalitarian, they both involve State control. They just have different marketing strategies.

Being a libertarian I get called a far right extremist by some, a far left extremist by some, and I’ve been called a moderate on here (I think this was before the whole guns and drugs thing came out).

Just did the quiz. I think my result says I’m more left and more libertarian than Ghandi???

(That’s two squares from the left edge, four from the libertarian edge)

I hate Illinois Nazis

jimbocool said :

No, DMD, I don’t think so. Extremism is merely a descriptor – Fascism is a philosophy. You can have all sorts of extremists – Muslim, Christian, Fascist, Communist, Anarchist. For example, the Khmer Rouge would be described as Extreme Agrarian Communist.

As the political spectrum is exactly that it’s perfectly legitimate to be leftwing without supporting China. That’s the sort of thing political compass is good at measuring.

I disagree. Fascism as a philosophy is simply the government dictating a society completely, through a single party. For me, that embodies extremism. Technically, you could have a Religeous Fascist State or a socialized fascist state.

I gotta add too that it’s important to note that the right and the left aren’t two singular views, but rather a whole lot of them that roughly fall on either side of the centre.

On the right, the conservative, you have, among many other ideals, the religious wackos and the capitalism junkies. The former are the ones who believe that their religion should set the standard by which a society operates. These people do hold a lot of influence over voters in some countries, most notably the US (as well as here, albiet to a slightly lesser degree). They are often placated by the Capitalist Junkies who put their idiot sons in the presidency and finish every sentence with “Jee-zus or Gaowd”. Somewhat amusingly, these kinds of governments are technically similar to ones in some countries in the middle-east, like Iran and Syria, although the extremism factor is much higher there.

It’s also important to note, since I won’t anywhere else in this rant, that Capitalism Junkies are classed as conservative because that is the current system in place, and it has been for quite some time.

Another faction among the right is the ignorant racists. These people can be interchangeable with the religeous wacko, but in short, don’t care much about foreign relations, the economy etc. All they care about is that life sucks and that it’s all someone else’s fault. This is because a good number of them develop among the poor (though it is fundamental to note that they certainly do not represent a majority of the poor), have a severe lack of education and have grown up in areas where people tend to stick around their own. Since their problems are usually not actually caused by them (usually being the result of Capitalism), they tend to blame other groups that stick to their own in their area, since, due to a combination of lack of education and simply not giving a sh-t, they haven’t looked at the greater issues. This mode of thinking is conservative, as multiculturalism in a society is generally a progression.

Post-ww1 Germany was full of people in this situation. What Hitler did was he appealed to their beliefs. In order to orchestrate his drugged-up and Wagner-driven fantasies, he needed to have a strong nation that was capable of supporting a large army, and, what’s the best way to strengthen a country with a busted economy? Socialize the resources.

The socialist element of Hitler’s regime was a necessary tool toward the fruition of his twisted ideas, but it was only because of the situation Germany was in prior to his coming to power. Therefore, socialism was not exactly what he set out to achieve. Hitler simply wanted to wipe out those he saw as inferior. He wanted a white europe, which it pretty much was a few hundred years before. Therefore, his ideals were conservative.

Ozhair said :

Took the quiz, also apparently in the Ghandi range 🙂

Interestingly, the Pope is slightly closer to Hitler on the chart than he is to Ghandi or Mandela 😉

Point?
So is Kevin Rudd. Dear God what have we done?

Took the quiz, also apparently in the Ghandi range 🙂

Interestingly, the Pope is slightly closer to Hitler on the chart than he is to Ghandi or Mandela 😉

No, DMD, I don’t think so. Extremism is merely a descriptor – Fascism is a philosophy. You can have all sorts of extremists – Muslim, Christian, Fascist, Communist, Anarchist. For example, the Khmer Rouge would be described as Extreme Agrarian Communist.

As the political spectrum is exactly that it’s perfectly legitimate to be leftwing without supporting China. That’s the sort of thing political compass is good at measuring.

The end of Jim and Raplh’s argument:

Extremism = Fascism.

Extremism is where a certain view is enforced entirely, with no room for anything else, hence you get dictatorships.

You can actually be left without condoning Stalin or the current regime in China. I certainly don’t.

took the test, but it looks like I am ghandi…

I think Ralph has been getting stuck into the reindeer urine.

Ralph said :

It’s amusing how the media continues to peddle the olde leftist misnomer that Hitler and the Nazis were part of the far-right, when in fact it was a socialist movement.

These days the principles of Nazism have been adopted by the far-right (skiheads etc) and nationalist movements, so they can be forgiven for some of the confusion.

You are of course welcome to your opinion but you may find an educated opinion would be a better one to have – stops you looking like an ignorant troll

jimbocool said :

JJ – so where does that leave Attila the Hun?

It’s probably pretty pointless trying to apply political labels that originated during pre-Revolutionary France to a ruler of the 5th century.

Might as well ask where Jesus or Mohammad would fit on the spectrum – they don’t.

p1: Try Political Compass. You can take a short quiz and find out where you end up on the graph, too.

I found that very interesting too, thanks. I am pleased to say that I came out somewhere between Nelson Mandela and The Dalai Lama. If only I had a ounce of their drive and dedication.

JJ – so where does that leave Attila the Hun?

jimbocool said :

Ralph – the introductory paragraphs of the wikipedia entry on Nazism should clear things up for you.

P1 – the problems with the overlap of the Left/Right wings of the spectrum are well recognised. One of the better attempts to model the political spectrum that accounts for these overlaps is the Political Compass (politicalcompass.org). But to answer your basic question: historically, IMO, the most extreme right wing government was Nazi, extreme left was Khmer Rouge. Central democracy would be Rudd Labour, Centre Right Howard Liberals, Centre Left Whitlam Labour, Right Thatcher, Left Chifley

But that can’t be right: according to Ralph, Rudd is a filthy socialist traitor and Hitler was a lefty.

Yes, they’re all left wing extremist dictators. Well done.

I don’t identify with extremists on either side of the political spectrum: the left or the right, so I feel no need to get into some sort of pissing match about famous dictators.

You feel free to go nuts though.

caf said :

p1: Try Political Compass. You can take a short quiz and find out where you end up on the graph, too.

Very interesting. I was surprised by where my answers landed me on the chart.

Ralph – the introductory paragraphs of the wikipedia entry on Nazism should clear things up for you.

P1 – the problems with the overlap of the Left/Right wings of the spectrum are well recognised. One of the better attempts to model the political spectrum that accounts for these overlaps is the Political Compass (politicalcompass.org). But to answer your basic question: historically, IMO, the most extreme right wing government was Nazi, extreme left was Khmer Rouge. Central democracy would be Rudd Labour, Centre Right Howard Liberals, Centre Left Whitlam Labour, Right Thatcher, Left Chifley

Don’t forget you’ve also got: Pol Pot; Kim Jong Ill; Fidel Castro to cling to.

Right = Hitler, Mussolini (Fascism)

Left = Stalin, Mao (Communism)

I find it amusing that the right attempts to wash its hands of Hitler by claiming that he was ‘actually’ left-wing. It’s never convinced anyone, but for some reason every now and then some nutsack tries it on.

p1: Try Political Compass. You can take a short quiz and find out where you end up on the graph, too.

weeziepops said :

“Give me the boy until the age of seven, I will give you the man.”

I’ve always loved that quote, Weeziepops. It’s very appropriate in this Thread!

Ralph said :

Far more to it than just the name.

State control of major enterprises, otherwise known as facism, doesn’t sound very liberal to me.

The left for decades have been trying to wash their hands of it.

Wouldn’t you fit in much better with the other wingnuts over at the Andrew Bolt blog?

The left for decades have been trying to wash their hands of it.

And the right have been embracing it…

Does anyone have a handy chart, with the spectrum of politics from right to left illustrated for me. I’m having trouble working out who in who as well.

While I don’t think that six year olds should be brought up as good little Hitler youth, I am a little worried about the ruling, if only because it appears largely unenforceable.

It seems to me, that either you can teach your kids what you want, in which case this the ruling is wrong, OR, if what you are telling your kid is so far outside what society would consider normal as to be abuse, in which case the kid should be removed from the parents.

Far more to it than just the name.

State control of major enterprises, otherwise known as facism, doesn’t sound very liberal to me.

The left for decades have been trying to wash their hands of it.

jimbocool said :

While “Nazi” is an abbreviation of the german for National Socialist, the Nazis were to socialism what the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is to democracy.

The two ends of the political spectrum communism and fascism share similar charcteristics – such as centralisation, bureaucratisition and state control – but they are funadamentally opposed philosophically.

Yep – if you go far enough right or left, you’ll end up in the same place. Stalinism ended up being almost identical to Nazism in the end.

While “Nazi” is an abbreviation of the german for National Socialist, the Nazis were to socialism what the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is to democracy.

The two ends of the political spectrum communism and fascism share similar charcteristics – such as centralisation, bureaucratisition and state control – but they are funadamentally opposed philosophically.

OK, back to your corners and leave off the abuse.

Ralph said :

Making an ass of yourself, again.

A little less of an ass than someone attempting to claim that Hitler was left-wing because the party he originated from had the word ‘socialist’ in its name.

North Korea is known as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. On that basis, I suppose you’d argue that they’re actually a nice democratic country.

Making an ass of yourself, again.

Ralph said :

It’s amusing how the media continues to peddle the olde leftist misnomer that Hitler and the Nazis were part of the far-right, when in fact it was a socialist movement.

These days the principles of Nazism have been adopted by the far-right (skiheads etc) and nationalist movements, so they can be forgiven for some of the confusion.

you = retard

Read a history book FFS.

Would this have even been mentioned had she been banned rom looking at Stalinist websites (if such things exist)?

It’s called the ABC.

“Give me the boy until the age of seven, I will give you the man.”

Would this have even been mentioned had she been banned rom looking at Stalinist websites (if such things exist)?

That and how we choose to over look the far greater crime of nazi Germany – the VW beetle.

It’s amusing how the media continues to peddle the olde leftist misnomer that Hitler and the Nazis were part of the far-right, when in fact it was a socialist movement.

These days the principles of Nazism have been adopted by the far-right (skiheads etc) and nationalist movements, so they can be forgiven for some of the confusion.

caf said :

If a mailbox was considered a fish, would you eat it for breakfast?

Only if it came with (wood) chips.

How on earth will the Courts enforce this one?

If a mailbox was considered a fish, would you eat it for breakfast?

You look pure hatred in the eye and smirk. Sure, you get into more fights, but you can wear that discomfort with pride.

I had a run in with an elderly German women at Woden interchange about 4 years ago. She started telling quite out of the blue how asians and blacks and jews were ruining Canberra the way they ruined Germany befor the war. I told her I don’t like intolerant old hags and she got offended. Go figure.

As a post script, she glowered at me while I boarded my bus and I sat there feeling very uncomfortable. The presence of pure hatred is a powerful thing.

If Nazism was considered a religion and not a political movement, would people feel the same way and would the law reflect this?

If there’s two things that I can’t stand – it’s Nazi’s and fcuking intollerance!

Look Nazis are scum,
but if these far right wing meetings weren’t illegal, how can the court tell her not to take her child if she wants?

Dear Mrs Hoover – Please stop using our oxygen. Regards Everyone else!