Biodiesel

I have a friend who runs his mower on alcohol he distills himself.

He also makes his own brandy and spirits.

He bought a still at butts and brew and hasnt spent a cent on mower fuel since (apart from the oil for the two stroke mix).

I’ve seen a few comments in here re biodiesel only have “marginal” environmental gains and also getting a better return on investment with petroleum distillate than with biodiesel. I’d just like to debunk some of these.

1. The complete life cycle of biodiesel production from the growing, to the harvesting, production, distribution and finally combustion in the engine (also called “field to wheel”) is carbon neutral or carbon negative. This means that the amount of CO2 emitted by using biodiesel is less than or equal to the amount of carbon absorbed by the plants used to make it. Compared to petroleum products which simply release the carbon captured from the fossil age (carbon positive), this is a huge environmental benefit in terms of greenhouse.
2. There are significant reductions in almost all emissions when running on biodiesel (even as a small blend with dino diesel). Smoke and particulates are significantly reduced. Biodiesel is an oxygenated fuel. Although it has marginally less energy content than petroleum distillate, it makes up for these with more efficient combustion, levelling at about 95% of the efficiency when combusted in an engine. This better, oxygenated combustion also means that the bits of soot and uncombusted fuel which normally come out of the exhaust as particulates/smoke are now burned in the chamber with the biodiesel. You will find that old smokers suddenly report much less of a cloud behind them when using biodiesel.
3. Energy costs. The “cost” of refining a fuel can be measured in the amount of energy you have to put into it, as opposed to the amount you get out of it. This can be a simple equation and does not involve economic costs, which is usually the only thing that people look at. To refine petrol, or distillate from crude oil and then burn it in your engine (the field to wheel), the ratio is around 0.9 :1. I know that sounds hard to believe but it costs nearly a barrel of oil to find, extract, process etc another barrel of oil in terms of energy used. When it reaches your vehicle from the pump, you don’t really care, you just notice the power you get from it, not the power it cost to get it. The cost of ethanol is similar, as the energy put into the distillation required is quite high. For biodiesel the ratio is more like 1:3, or as high as 1:7 for biodiesel made from waste cooking oil. The reason for this is that biodiesel is made from a chemical reaction rather than distillation and it does not have to be drilled from deep in the ground.

There is a lot of propaganda a misinformation in the public domain, as well as some “scientific” studies that have been commissioned by those who’s interests are not for alternative fuels which would disagree with some of the things that pro bio fuel people say. You have to make your own mind up.

Re resources for learning how to make it, or for finding out where to buy it – http://www.biofuelsforum.com is a forum specifically for Australia. Much discussion on the above topics happens in there.

I ran ethanol blend in my Datsun 120Y (circa 1975 model) back in uni (2001-2003) as it was the cheapest. And I had no concerns about “voiding my warranty” as the media at the time proclaimed it would do. I had no ill effects. The increased octane even let me advance the timing without the old girl “pinging”… Mechanically, environmentally and economically I’m all for ethanol, especially if we can derive it from waste (ie sugar cane). The unreliable aspect seems to be the politics, oil company propaganda and misinformation. I think biodiesel will suffer the same for some time yet.

Make that ‘ingredients’…

Environmentally I believe ethanol os better than dino-juice, as it is a much simpler (chemically) brew. Also, it is made from renewable sources (plant material) that consume carbon doixide during the growth phase then release it during the fuel burning phase.

I am all for developing fuels that can be grown/manufactured in Australia from local ‘ingedients’, thus reducing our reliance on imported supply. Although we will likely pay world prices for energy, if we can make our own we should still be somewhat insulated from ‘energy crisis’ type shocks.

I also like ethanol as it can be used in existing infrastructure, and our cars can use it. Older model cars I would be more careful with, as they may not have fuel lines and other seals and stuff made from the necessary materials.

Thanks el for the good advice. Seeing you raised the LPG thing in this thread, perhaps you or others can explain something I am puzzled by. The P in LPG is petroleum, right? So why is this being touted as cheaper/greener etc (not to mention the boot space problem)?

I would avoid it for the moment and keep using the base unleaded in a 15 year old car, myself (mine’s an ’89 model, FWIW). As far as it being “greener”, that’s still very much uncertain – You use more of the “greener” fuel to get where you’re going.

Does anyone know if you can use the Ethanol fuel (or proportion of same) in an older car (we are talking 1991 make)? No one has explained this stuff. I am just using the cheapest unleaded as I don’t even know if I can use the snazzy unleaded ones that are now appearing at the servo. I would like to be ‘greener’ but don’t want to wreck my car.

Compressed Natural Gas is bloody horrible fuel for auto purposes. LPG is a much better choice, IMHO. Ethanol (without the “M” at the front, folks – Methanol is something different again) is, er, somewhat suspect re Manildra’s “donations” to the Liberal party. There’s plenty of ethanol blended fuels about these days, BP in particular seems pretty keen to push the “E10” (I think it’s called) blend.

There a number of possibilities ranging from compressed natural gas to
lignocellulose based ethanol that are obviously ripe for careful development.

After 3 years living in Holbrook, I can vouch that it gets every bit as cold as Canberra. But the independent servo there has always been at the leading edge of fuel sustainability. They have sold methanol blended petrol for years (which you can get here at the United just north of town at Eagle Hawk – close enough for us living at Harrison).
But the Holbrook servo paid a price for its pioneering – the local community fostered an ongoing rumour mill against the company about selling bad fuel and damage to engines. I used them for every tank for 3 years and our cars never missed a beat.

One of the current affairs shows did a piece on biodiesel a little while ago. If using recycled fish and chips oil its great but mass producing it is no better than the regular stuff.

I don’t think it would do good things to my motorbike.

A lot of misinformation is obviously still going round, by the looks of these posts.

Have a look here: http://www.journeytoforever.org

PS Ive been making biodiesel at home for about a year now,. so I sort of have some claim to a little knowledge.

Hey smokey 2- where’s ‘VP’ service station?? I want to buy some of that bio-diesel (and see if its as good as mine)

cheers
richopesto

There’s a bloke in the usenet newsgroup aus.cars that’s been doing it for a while in his shed. As far as I’m aware, gelling is no more a problem with biodiesel than regular diesel. I’m talking about the used oil biodiesel. Haven’t heard much regarding “growing food crop” methods and fuel apart from the discussion of Ethanol and it’s addition to standard petrol.

i have no idea, im happy just putting petrol in mine, plus some octane booster when its required.

i miss super.

I was referring to growing the food-crop that gets refined into oil, before being refined into bio-diesel.

You need a bucket-load of fuel for farm machinery, transport and refining. That NaOH and metho don’t come from nowhere, either.

You get a much better energy return on investment with diesel than with biodiesel. That meaning that the “hidden environmental costs” of biodiesel make it not quite as clean and green as it might seem. You’re right though – it’s still streets ahead of methanol.

I applaud anyone trying to do better by the environment, but I’m yet to be convinced that biodiesel is a viable alternative.

BTW Bonfire – Can you dump plain, unrefined palm/canola oil in a diesel tank? I thought it needed to be fooled about with a bit first, or you’d do horrible things to your engine.

Smokey2 check out Adam Curry’s website http://www.curry.com and look for references to Trinity his biodiesel merc (now defunct I think) In the US (via Canada) apparently you can get a home garage Waste vege oil to Bio diesel conversion system for about US$3k. Google away. Perhaps once set up we can get JB to move the server to the location of the set up with a little dino genny.

I can see it now – “RiotACT powered by left over fish and chip oil”

I have done a fair bit of reading on it and manufacture using canola treated with metho and caustic soda appears very simple. The by product being glycerine or soap.
Cannot see much of an environmental problem there.
I am sure many of the farmers growing Canola are also using biodiesel to power their equipment.

Biodiesel has far less polution as it is a straight vegetable product with no sulphur or the other impurities dino fuel has. Particle levels may be a little higher which is a downside and can clog catalytic exhaust filters on some of the really new engines.

Main problem is converting potential food into vehicle fuel which the greens are against.
However much more simple and efficient than converting wheat or corn to alcohol to use in petrol motors like the yanks are doing.
It is better for our farmers to grow canola than wheat as the corrupt AWB then bribes third world dictators like Saddam to purchase our wheat.

Anyway I don’t want to make the stuff as I live in a flat and my neighbours will think I am operating a meth lab. I just want to be able to buy it in Canberra.

why dont you just go down to the supabarn, buy some black and gold label canola and tip it into your tank ?

the concat reported an article on palmoil in darwin a few days ago.

on bougainville under onas marijuana fuelled reign, and when the PNGDF isolated the island using their rowboats, the BRA used coconut oil to power the vehicles they had.

The environmental benefits of biodiesel are pretty marginal (or even worse than diesel, depending on the methods of production).

Unless that is, you start converting your own waste oil into usable fuel.

I would have thought the same applied to diesel ? Thats pretty thick and fairly similar – besides I would have thought that the fuel injection system on a diesel or converted Waste vege Oil (WVO) type engine would have no problem cutting your finger in half so why would slightly thicker biodiesel matter ?
Isnt sub-terranean temperatures pretty standard the right up and down the eastern seaboard? On a totally different tangent, when I was a chef we used to sell off our WVO to a guy for 5 dollars per drum (20 litres). Is there any net resources on how to make you rown WVO fuel and convert your vehicle to operate on that? I know a few people who would find it rather handy, and are friendly with som epeople in thetrade still so would have an endless supply (maybe) of dirty crisco

I heard a chap on the radio answer that question a couple of weeks ago – apparently it’s to do with the colder temperatures here – biodiesel apparently gets too thick when its cold so its not sold south of Wollongong – but then again, if you can get it in Hollbrook … who knows.