Canberra growing fat on a nation's suffering?

justin heywood said :

LSWCHP said :

Yeah. I recently spent a weekend in a country town in central NSW. Attitudes, speech patterns, expectations, incomes, life expectancy (deduced from universal smoking habits)…they were all different to anything you’d find anywhere in Canberra.

So, should we make things in Canberra more like that? Or would Australia be a better place if other populations centres had the amenities and opportunities that we have here?

Yes, I’m actually proposing that it would be a good thing if the rest of Australia looked more like Canberra. I wonder what the Just Grounds Truckie Protest lurkers think about that?

Well you might need more than a ‘weekend in a country town’ before you make sweeping statements like the rest of your post.

But yes indeed, lets ‘make things more like they are in Canberra’. Let every town have a huge employer like the public service so that everyone can be paid well on a 37.5 hour week and not worry too much about losing their job or their business going bust.

Canberra was built by the sweat of the bogans of western Sydney and the rednecks of the country towns, which so many of you seem to despise. No surprise then that many of them resent the fact that their money was (and is) used to build and to run an artificial town that they feel is increasingly removed from their reality.

In my opinion many Canberrans are out of touch – so out of touch that it never occurs to them that Canberra lives off the collective fat of the land. To suggest that they should get of their collective arses and become ‘more like us’ is just as ignorant as the Tele article.

If the redneck bogans in Western Sydney are the ‘real’ Australia, then the country’s in a really f$%cking bad way.

Classified said :

fgzk said :

There is a Canberra saying ” You have to leave to become someone, but you will return.”

I’ve lived here my whole life, and never heard that saying.

Neither have I, maybe it’s because we’re out of touch

fgzk said :

There is a Canberra saying ” You have to leave to become someone, but you will return.”

I’ve lived here my whole life, and never heard that saying.

justin heywood said :

…In my opinion many Canberrans are out of touch – so out of touch that it never occurs to them that Canberra lives off the collective fat of the land. To suggest that they should get of their collective arses and become ‘more like us’ is just as ignorant as the Tele article.

Just like most Australians (incl Canberrans) are ‘out of touch’ with how people are living in Western Africa, or are ‘out of touch’ with how Donald Trump is living. I’d say the majority of people on this earth have people living differently (so called) ‘above’ and ‘below’ them. It’s all kinda relative. Should everyone feel guilty that some are ‘below’ and feel jealous that some are ‘above’ them?
Really, as long as I’m enjoying my life, I couln’t give a rats about how the Joneses are living above me. I do however, feel for people living in poverty. For that, all I’ve managed to do is donate to certain causes. Not sure if that helps though…… 🙁

Justin Heywood, your not from Canberra, are you. A lot of people move to Canberra from all over Australia. That keeps us in touch. There is a Canberra saying ” You have to leave to become someone, but you will return.” So I don’t see how we could be out of touch. You could argue Canberrans are far more in touch. A multistate Territory.

justin heywood said :

In my opinion many Canberrans are out of touch – so out of touch that it never occurs to them that Canberra lives off the collective fat of the land. To suggest that they should get of their collective arses and become ‘more like us’ is just as ignorant as the Tele article.

I’m going to call absolute BS on that one… As a city of people we are just as in touch with the rest of Australia as the rest of Australia is in touch with the real Canberra. Most people who sprout that we are different to the rest of Australia also usually believes the Canberra bashing articles are based on solid fact.

Being relatively well traveled I fell quite confident in saying that we in Canberra have the same problems as the rest of Australia, we are lucky that our major industry doesn’t quite have the peak and troughs that other industries have. But there are other parts of Australia who are well and truly seeing a peak. Been to Perth of late?

I would say we’re out of touch with the western Sydney bogan, I’ll admit that (but at the same token the western Sydney bogan doesn’t know of real Canberra, they assume that we’re all pollies). But that’s hardly a yardstick worthy of being measured against.

Reply

Mumbucks said :

poetix said :

Postalgeek said :

100% of RiotAct will happily tell you 50% of RiotAct is isolated from reality. Don’t need stats for that.

You’re wrong! Just wrong!

You’re wrong no you can’t be. I was wrong first!

I was wrong once. I remember it. I thought I’d made a mistake, but I hadn’t. So I was wrong.

Skidbladnir said :

“How dare those public servants responsible for budgets which can be measured in percentages of GDP be paid a fraction of their Private Sector equivalent!“

Skid, you really need to learn the difference between what is yours, and what is not yours.

Hint: search for more objective and independent information sources, rather than the Australian Council of Trade Unions website.

LSWCHP said :

Yeah. I recently spent a weekend in a country town in central NSW. Attitudes, speech patterns, expectations, incomes, life expectancy (deduced from universal smoking habits)…they were all different to anything you’d find anywhere in Canberra.

So, should we make things in Canberra more like that? Or would Australia be a better place if other populations centres had the amenities and opportunities that we have here?

Yes, I’m actually proposing that it would be a good thing if the rest of Australia looked more like Canberra. I wonder what the Just Grounds Truckie Protest lurkers think about that?

Well you might need more than a ‘weekend in a country town’ before you make sweeping statements like the rest of your post.

But yes indeed, lets ‘make things more like they are in Canberra’. Let every town have a huge employer like the public service so that everyone can be paid well on a 37.5 hour week and not worry too much about losing their job or their business going bust.

Canberra was built by the sweat of the bogans of western Sydney and the rednecks of the country towns, which so many of you seem to despise. No surprise then that many of them resent the fact that their money was (and is) used to build and to run an artificial town that they feel is increasingly removed from their reality.

In my opinion many Canberrans are out of touch – so out of touch that it never occurs to them that Canberra lives off the collective fat of the land. To suggest that they should get of their collective arses and become ‘more like us’ is just as ignorant as the Tele article.

poetix said :

Postalgeek said :

100% of RiotAct will happily tell you 50% of RiotAct is isolated from reality. Don’t need stats for that.

You’re wrong! Just wrong!

You’re wrong no you can’t be. I was wrong first!

drfelonious said :

I seem to remember that the likes of Keating and Whitlam were quite ready to ignore rubbish rank populist gnat-like intelligence arguments and on occasion even told people peddling such rubbish to go stick it. .

Oh yeah, spot on. Our political “leaders” are gutless wimps who live in fear of media buffoons like Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones.

How can they be so stupid that they don’t realise that almost everybody in the country would *love* to see a show of spine, and a bit of biff instead of their usual nauseating acquiescence and unjustified politeness? I dream about the day Julia goes on Jones’s show, and tells him to go pound sand up his flabby arse. Those clowns show respect to nobody, and it’s about time that someone with some weight fired back at them…someone they couldn’t hang up on.

Let’s get a bit of mongrel into the public debate.

Classified said :

Jim Jones said :

Classified said :

Some very good points, especially about Canberra and the RiotACT not being representative of wider Australia.

Australia isn’t a homogenous nation – the very idea of ‘being representative of wider Australia’ is a bit of a misnomer.

Agreed, and yet there are people I know who live in ACT who think that the rest of Australia is like here…

Yeah. I recently spent a weekend in a country town in central NSW. Attitudes, speech patterns, expectations, incomes, life expectancy (deduced from universal smoking habits)…they were all different to anything you’d find anywhere in Canberra.

So, should we make things in Canberra more like that? Or would Australia be a better place if other populations centres had the amenities and opportunities that we have here?

Yes, I’m actually proposing that it would be a good thing if the rest of Australia looked more like Canberra. I wonder what the Just Grounds Truckie Protest lurkers think about that?

Stories like this one in the Tele help to ensure that when the Liberals next come to power they will cut the bejesus out of the APS just for the hell of it.
Is it just me, or has the standard of political debate sunk to new lows in the last decade?
I seem to remember that the likes of Keating and Whitlam were quite ready to ignore rubbish rank populist gnat-like intelligence arguments and on occasion even told people peddling such rubbish to go stick it. Even Fraser and Howard (early years) didn’t seem to care much for the Tele, and I imagine Menzies must not have done so otherwise Canberra would never have been built up in the 50s and 60s!
Meanwhile the current crop put the brown undies on at the slightest hint they might cop a burst from the likes of Ray Hadley or the Tele. While I’m on the subject, the lack of leadership is probably a big part of the reason why the infrastructure in this country is so shite. I mean can you imagine any politician embarking on a big nation-building project now – they’re all too worried that they might get bagged in the Tele so they won’t put themselves out there.

Jim Jones said :

Classified said :

Some very good points, especially about Canberra and the RiotACT not being representative of wider Australia.

Australia isn’t a homogenous nation – the very idea of ‘being representative of wider Australia’ is a bit of a misnomer.

Agreed, and yet there are people I know who live in ACT who think that the rest of Australia is like here…

“It hasn’t escaped the notice of those who frequently travel between our various capitals that Canberra features a disproportionate number of building sites for big new hotels.”

Erg0 said :

Where are all these big new hotels they’re talking about? Other than the The Realm/Burbury precinct, I can’t think of any others that have opened recently or are currently being built.

For that matter, can anyone explain to me what hotel development has to do with Canberra’s prosperity? Surely that relates more to the prosperity of our visitors.

+1
What a crock. They aren’t building any new hotels in Canberra at the moment, in fact one of them is getting knocked down (The Marque) and replaced with apartment blocks.

Classified said :

Some very good points, especially about Canberra and the RiotACT not being representative of wider Australia.

Australia isn’t a homogenous nation – the very idea of ‘being representative of wider Australia’ is a bit of a misnomer.

harvyk1 said :

Here is the thing, if the nation feels that Canberra has such great job prospects compared to the rest of the nation, why do they not just get off their collective arse’s and move to Canberra?

It’s not like there is Customs \ Immigration \ Visa issues which would stop them from coming here. In years gone by many a person has moved because there was greater opportunity for work in other towns.

Of course the answer as to why not is it’s far easier to sit there and complain how life is not fair…

The same reason lots of people do (or don’t do) a whole range of things. The path of least resistance.

Here is the thing, if the nation feels that Canberra has such great job prospects compared to the rest of the nation, why do they not just get off their collective arse’s and move to Canberra?

It’s not like there is Customs \ Immigration \ Visa issues which would stop them from coming here. In years gone by many a person has moved because there was greater opportunity for work in other towns.

Of course the answer as to why not is it’s far easier to sit there and complain how life is not fair…

rosscoact said :

dey turk err jurbz!

Jim Jones said :

TERK ER JEEEERRRRRBS!!!

BimboGeek said :

DEeEeRK er DEeEEeeEeERBS

DEEERRRP???

What I’d like to know is how many of these highly paid public servants are real Canberrans. I bet most of the upper echelons of the SES are in fact FIFOs who wouldn’t otherwise dream of coming to Canberra.

In fact, do you know what we need? We need a tax on power. The higher up the APS you go, the more tax you pay. The further away from power you are, the less tax you pay. The Secs. of AGs, Defence, etc should be paid absolutely nothing.

The stupid people of Western Sydney, with the influence they wield over the nation, should be paying us all for the privilege of being allowed to live…

Postalgeek said :

100% of RiotAct will happily tell you 50% of RiotAct is isolated from reality. Don’t need stats for that.

You’re wrong! Just wrong!

arescarti42 said :

p1 said :

For anyone tempted to be outraged by this story (or anything that comes out of Mr Abbott’s mouth), I direct you to this.

All in all that ABC opinion piece is pretty poorly written and somewhat misleading. A couple of things that stood out to me:

1. GDP growth is totally meaningless unless it is on a per capita basis. If your population is growing at 4%, you need 4% GDP growth just to not go backwards.
2. The assertion that the prosperity of the last few decades was not a big unsustainable debt bubble because government debt is low. Lets just ignore the fact that Australian private debt per capita is now larger than it was in the US before their debt bubble exploded.

Sure, the Daily Telegraph story is mostly just bogan pandering bullshit, but it does touch on the more substantive notion that Australia is an increasingly unequal society and that Canberra is in many ways isolated from the realities of the rest of Australia.

The-riotact.com highlights this in many ways, according to the 2009 RA media kit, 68% of rioters earn more than $50K a year, almost 20% earn more than $125K. According to the ATO, the median full time earnings of Australian employees was $44,222 in 08/09. That means that 50% of Australian employees earn less than $44k a year.

100% of RiotAct will happily tell you 50% of RiotAct is isolated from reality. Don’t need stats for that.

Isn’t the Daily Telegraph aimed at this demographic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUfTaey7NGk&feature=related

The story is a light light on detail and balance beyond its shock horror motif

arescarti42 said :

p1 said :

For anyone tempted to be outraged by this story (or anything that comes out of Mr Abbott’s mouth), I direct you to this.

All in all that ABC opinion piece is pretty poorly written and somewhat misleading. A couple of things that stood out to me:

1. GDP growth is totally meaningless unless it is on a per capita basis. If your population is growing at 4%, you need 4% GDP growth just to not go backwards.
2. The assertion that the prosperity of the last few decades was not a big unsustainable debt bubble because government debt is low. Lets just ignore the fact that Australian private debt per capita is now larger than it was in the US before their debt bubble exploded.

Sure, the Daily Telegraph story is mostly just bogan pandering bullshit, but it does touch on the more substantive notion that Australia is an increasingly unequal society and that Canberra is in many ways isolated from the realities of the rest of Australia.

The-riotact.com highlights this in many ways, according to the 2009 RA media kit, 68% of rioters earn more than $50K a year, almost 20% earn more than $125K. According to the ATO, the median full time earnings of Australian employees was $44,222 in 08/09. That means that 50% of Australian employees earn less than $44k a year.

Some very good points, especially about Canberra and the RiotACT not being representative of wider Australia.

p1 said :

For anyone tempted to be outraged by this story (or anything that comes out of Mr Abbott’s mouth), I direct you to this.

All in all that ABC opinion piece is pretty poorly written and somewhat misleading. A couple of things that stood out to me:

1. GDP growth is totally meaningless unless it is on a per capita basis. If your population is growing at 4%, you need 4% GDP growth just to not go backwards.
2. The assertion that the prosperity of the last few decades was not a big unsustainable debt bubble because government debt is low. Lets just ignore the fact that Australian private debt per capita is now larger than it was in the US before their debt bubble exploded.

Sure, the Daily Telegraph story is mostly just bogan pandering bullshit, but it does touch on the more substantive notion that Australia is an increasingly unequal society and that Canberra is in many ways isolated from the realities of the rest of Australia.

The-riotact.com highlights this in many ways, according to the 2009 RA media kit, 68% of rioters earn more than $50K a year, almost 20% earn more than $125K. According to the ATO, the median full time earnings of Australian employees was $44,222 in 08/09. That means that 50% of Australian employees earn less than $44k a year.

DEeEeRK er DEeEEeeEeERBS

Two words capture all you’ll ever need to know: “Daily Telegraph”.

Classified said :

Erg0 said :

Where are all these big new hotels they’re talking about? Other than the The Realm/Burbury precinct, I can’t think of any others that have opened recently or are currently being built.

For that matter, can anyone explain to me what hotel development has to do with Canberra’s prosperity? Surely that relates more to the prosperity of our visitors.

During sitting weeks, you can’t find accomodation easily because it can be all booked out.

Pretty much this! And woe betide you if you are trying to find accommodation during both a Parliament session, Floriade and school holidays! Nigh impossible!

TERK ER JEEEERRRRRBS!!!

How many big new hotels are being built ATM?

It’s funny, I remember when I used to vist Syd/Melb/Bris quite a lot about 10 years ago, they all had lots of new buildings going up. Every time i’d return to Cbr there were no large construction activities – no big cranes in the skyline. Just because there are a few now doesn’t mean too much, surely? Maybe Cbr is just balancing out with the growth in other caps in the last ten years?

Anyway, surely hotels don’t really indicate much about Cbr itself, except maybe the hotel owners are expecting more people to visit here? Or are they saying people who live here in Cbr are so rich they all live in hotels? Hahaha! Weird….

Classified said :

Erg0 said :

Where are all these big new hotels they’re talking about? Other than the The Realm/Burbury precinct, I can’t think of any others that have opened recently or are currently being built.

For that matter, can anyone explain to me what hotel development has to do with Canberra’s prosperity? Surely that relates more to the prosperity of our visitors.

During sitting weeks, you can’t find accomodation easily because it can be all booked out.

…by people from Sydney, Melbourne and other capital cities that are supposedly doing it tough. If the point is that politicians are employing too many staffers, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Canberra as a city.

The Daily Tele / A Current Affair / Today Tonight audience loves nothing more than complaining about people who have more stuff than YOU. No matter who you are, how hard your job is, how hard you’ve worked to get there – you don’t deserve it!

Holden Caulfield said :

Great big new building sites.

Great big public service expansions.

Sounds like Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen’s “crane index” in the 1970s and ’80s. When journalists interviewing the former Qld premier asked him how well the state’s economy was going he would tell them to look out the window at the number of cranes on building sites. That was all the proof that was needed.

If you follow the link you’ll notice that the story immediately below the one about the Canberra fat cats is about ‘a looming bloodsucker boom’ from mozzies. The needle seems to have got stuck there…

They are always welcome to come and open a hotel since it’s so lucrative.

For anyone tempted to be outraged by this story (or anything that comes out of Mr Abbott’s mouth), I direct you to this.

dey turk err jurbz!

This would be a story from Steve Lewis, responsible for OzCar\Godwin Grech.

“Canberra, how dare it have a growing economy and require a matching growth accomodation!”
“How dare those public servants responsible for budgets which can be measured in percentages of GDP be paid a fraction of their Private Sector equivalent!“

Oh, very nearly forgot the most important one – “Call an election now and get rid of this mob”

Erg0 said :

Where are all these big new hotels they’re talking about? Other than the The Realm/Burbury precinct, I can’t think of any others that have opened recently or are currently being built.

For that matter, can anyone explain to me what hotel development has to do with Canberra’s prosperity? Surely that relates more to the prosperity of our visitors.

During sitting weeks, you can’t find accomodation easily because it can be all booked out.

Could I please give the sorts of responses that the daily tele is looking for…

“Bloody fat cats sitting on their arses whilst the rest of Australia works, sack the lot of them”
“Juliar does deserve a cent of her pay”
“that’s be right, here I am working hard and the bloody fat cats in Canberra go out for wine lunches every day”
“just get rid of Canberra, bulldoze the whole place, and give the land back to NSW”

Ah that felt better. Whilst I don’t disagree that giving out large pay rises probably not the most tactical move the gov’t ever made considering that there are various unions who are fighting for pay rises to keep inline with inflation, I personally believe anything written in news limited exists only to make bogans angry, because angry bogans “get involved” in comment sections (and thus see advertisements)

Where are all these big new hotels they’re talking about? Other than the The Realm/Burbury precinct, I can’t think of any others that have opened recently or are currently being built.

For that matter, can anyone explain to me what hotel development has to do with Canberra’s prosperity? Surely that relates more to the prosperity of our visitors.

Im keen to know about these big public service expansions? Which departments? How many extra staff?

Plus Im not fat Im big boned so keep the name calling to a minimum thanks.

Did Tony Abbot write that?

Great big new building sites.

Great big public service expansions.