The perfect storm of self satisfaction - greenwash wrap

frank2112 said :

“As for the Prius batteries. How do we get rid of them when they die and at what cost to the environment.”

How do we get rid of the hundreds of millions of phone batteries we all carry around?

Hybrids are a compromise, not the silver bullet for the world’s pollution problems,
-but, like wind farms, solar panels and turning off the lights, they are a step in the right direction.

To compare them with Hummers is ludicrous.

(And yes, they are ugly compared to an old beetle, but they don’t leak oil or break down, and the steering wheel doesn’t go through your chest in a prang.)

I’ll stick with my 45 year old VW. 30+mpg and all steel. It’s total emissions for the rest of it’s life will still be less that the environmental cost of building a Prius and it looks better. Almost totally recyclable when the day comes. More than I can say for some of the plastic fantastic cars of today.

As for the Prius batteries. How do we get rid of them when they die and at what cost to the environment.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

“….greater focus on keeping size and weight under control would net good savings in terms of fuel used, and without all the hassles (cost, logistics and environmental) of battery packs.”

One of the common misconceptions about the Prius is that it has a large battery pack.
It doesn’t, quite a small but very high voltage thing behind the passenger seat. It is a relatively light car in fact.

To make hybrids work the price needs to be such that the costs over the life of the vehicle are comparable or less than the costs of a similar sized conventional car.

It irritates me a bit that car makers get such kudos for this, when there are simpler (but less sexy) ways to achieve the same thing. Take vehicle mass for example. In the early to mid nineties, your standard entry level light car weighed in at about 800kg. Nowadays the light cars are at least 1000kg – 20% more. That’s 20% more mass to shift, and stop. Of course cars these days are larger and better equipped (especially for the $$), but even still, a greater focus on keeping size and weight under control would net good savings in terms of fuel used, and without all the hassles (cost, logistics and environmental) of battery packs.

And, as the great Jezza Clarkson discovered, they’re not even bulletproof (mind you, most things aren’t when you ark up with a 50cal)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt0KhGJyayM

No not the Hummer, but the fact that there are mercedes benz diesels that are shown to be more green over the whole of life equation than a Pious. Clarkson told me so.

A vegetarian hummer driver is better than a meat eating Prius driver though.

Hahahahahaha..

I’m vegan and ride a motorcycle!

Well I like the motorcycle part.

WMC – they are, but the problem is you can’t make more petrol, but you can make more diesel.

(vegetable oil + alcohol = diesel + glycerin)

People are better off seeking salvation from the climate gods through a small diesel car.

Oh, definitely, although the next generation of hybrids (around 2010) look promising, and I read (where? stupid memory) last week that upcoming petrol cars are more efficient than the current batch of diesels.

None of them are as green as my vehicle, and it was built in the 1980s.

The maths is here:

1 vehicle with 1 occupant consuming 100l/month (a very generous estimate) still = 100l of tailpipe emissions.

1 motorbike with 1 occupant consumes 20l/month (if I fill up every week, which I don’t) = 20l of tailpipe emissions.

Notwithstanding lost revenue from pay parking (which could be used to fund green initiatives), there is a lot less to build, therefore a much smaller footprint, even if you traded in a car for a brand-new motorbike, the footprint would probably still fit inside the largesse of cars footprints.