A Letter to Road Users

and cyclists always obey the law?
see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OoEdXxFeCk

snoopydoc said :

54-11 said :

As a very regular pedestrian who has to put up with incredibly ignorant cyclists, I think the cycling brigade needs to get their act in order before criticising others.

Use your bell – it’s the law! Don’t tear in large groups through groups of pedestrians, specially where there are lots of kids and animals around the lake.

Some courtesy and common sense would go a long way, for all sides of this debate.

It’s often a lot safer _not_ to ding one’s bell when approaching pedestrians from behind. Having you do the startled funky chicken time warp jump to the insert-random-direction-here after we’ve already passed you is a lot less likely to lead to disaster than having you make random unpredictable course corrections while we’re approaching you.

Many pedestrians also seem egregiously affronted when we _do_ use a bell, presumably because they interpret it to mean “Get out of the way, you perambulating ass-clown!” rather than the intended “I’m behind you and might want to make a little space, or control your dog, or child, please.”

And you also want to speed past people walking at 5km an hour while you are doing 40km/h?

I think the paths around the lake should be segregated by speed.

Eg one path for joggers and cyclists who want to do more than 10km/h and a second for walkers and families with little kids on bikes, dogs, and anyone else who might suddenly stop to look at the view/do a poo (dogs and kids included)/pick up said poo/take a photo (not of poo).

I walk around the lake regularly and it is upsetting to have to explain to distressed tourists that no, there is no dedicated pedestrian lane and yes, they will have to put up with cyclists yelling at them to get out of the way because that’s just how Canberra rocks.

I can’t really say anything, as much as I want to, because everyone has beaten me to it. Doh!

54-11 said :

As a very regular pedestrian who has to put up with incredibly ignorant cyclists, I think the cycling brigade needs to get their act in order before criticising others.

Use your bell – it’s the law! Don’t tear in large groups through groups of pedestrians, specially where there are lots of kids and animals around the lake.

Some courtesy and common sense would go a long way, for all sides of this debate.

It’s often a lot safer _not_ to ding one’s bell when approaching pedestrians from behind. Having you do the startled funky chicken time warp jump to the insert-random-direction-here after we’ve already passed you is a lot less likely to lead to disaster than having you make random unpredictable course corrections while we’re approaching you.

Many pedestrians also seem egregiously affronted when we _do_ use a bell, presumably because they interpret it to mean “Get out of the way, you perambulating ass-clown!” rather than the intended “I’m behind you and might want to make a little space, or control your dog, or child, please.”

Holden Caulfield said :

I respect the message of this video and understand it’s my duty to do what I can to ensure the safety of all road users when I’m driving my car.

Now that the niceties are out of the way, what a load of emotional clap trap. Wtih good reason perhaps, it’s simply a technique to try and get the message across.

But it still comes back to the basic human instinct of protecting oneself. Noone else can do this for you.

Cycling on the road is not the only way to keep fit.

Cycling on the road is not the only way to stay healthy.

Cycling on the road is not the only way to make a difference to the environment.

And yet we all make choices.

I know it will never happen in my lifetime, but if we want to get fair dinkum about cycling then we need to start better catering for cyclists by giving them dedicated lanes and infrastructure. Ideally not at the inconvenience of the majority (ie. motorists). Some compromise is fair enough, granted.

A tradie can’t climb a ladder without wearing boots; OH&S says so.

A roofer can’t work on a single storey house without guardrails; OH&S says so.

OH&S has become its own industry.

And yet a cyclist of any age, with no requirement to prove any understanding of the road rules is free to ride on the road with motorbikes, cars and trucks. It’s bad enough cars and trucks share the road, let alone someone on a pushbike.

However, cultural norms mean we barely even bat an eyelid at this daily paradox.

Cycling on the road is dangerous. And if it’s as bad as that video makes out then the only solution to guarantee the safety of cyclists is for them to take personal responsibility and cease riding on the road.

Just as we allow and accept that 1500 or so people will die on our roads each year, cyclists either need to accept the risks involved or stop riding on the road. Emotional videos like this won’t alter the behaviour of most motorists.

Of course, awareness campaigns are good and I fully support the give cyclists a metre campaign getting traction recently and, like I said, I’m happy to wait a few seconds, keep an eye out and do whatever I can to ensure I’m no more risk to a cyclist than they are to me.

However, none of this stops the inherent dangers of bikes sharing the road with cars/trucks etc. It’s risky and until cyclists are separated from motorised traffic those risks are never going to go away.

If you’re concerned about not being here for your kids and fear the dangers of cycling on the road, the answer’s pretty simple. Sadly, expecting the vast majority of selfish motorists to give a shit about your welfare is like living in la la land.

Most motorists don’t give a crap about each other, why would they care about you?

I don’t disagree with what you’ve said. What you’re talking about is defensive riding, and a large number of cyclists, but not all, practice it and do what they can for risk reduction. Most are acutely aware that they’ve left a comfortable realm of safety when they ride on the road. Like surfers and sharks, knowing that you won’t see death coming from behind or side on until it slams into you is always in the back of your mind when cycling on roads.

Most cyclists don’t enjoy cycling on busy roads. That’s why the uncongested Cotter loop, and old Fed hwy, and the early mornings, see so many cyclists.

And putting aside recreational roadies for a minute, most commuters I know (myself included) take radically longer routes to reduce road exposure where they can. Fact of the matter is that the direct dedicated trunk routes that motorists take for granted aren’t always there for cyclists. Try riding Fyshwick to Woden. Often it is simply not possible to avoid roads altogether.

The whole thing is stupid as cyclists and motorists are often in furious agreement about cyclists and motorists being separated from each other where possible.

But until planners wake up to the fact that segregated bike lanes on the wider median strips mean that cyclists aren’t as exposed to or disrupted by side-entry traffic we’ll continue to see a number of cyclists choosing roads over off-road cycle paths due to right-of-way laws.

I respect the message of this video and understand it’s my duty to do what I can to ensure the safety of all road users when I’m driving my car.

Now that the niceties are out of the way, what a load of emotional clap trap. Wtih good reason perhaps, it’s simply a technique to try and get the message across.

But it still comes back to the basic human instinct of protecting oneself. Noone else can do this for you.

Cycling on the road is not the only way to keep fit.

Cycling on the road is not the only way to stay healthy.

Cycling on the road is not the only way to make a difference to the environment.

And yet we all make choices.

I know it will never happen in my lifetime, but if we want to get fair dinkum about cycling then we need to start better catering for cyclists by giving them dedicated lanes and infrastructure. Ideally not at the inconvenience of the majority (ie. motorists). Some compromise is fair enough, granted.

A tradie can’t climb a ladder without wearing boots; OH&S says so.

A roofer can’t work on a single storey house without guardrails; OH&S says so.

OH&S has become its own industry.

And yet a cyclist of any age, with no requirement to prove any understanding of the road rules is free to ride on the road with motorbikes, cars and trucks. It’s bad enough cars and trucks share the road, let alone someone on a pushbike.

However, cultural norms mean we barely even bat an eyelid at this daily paradox.

Cycling on the road is dangerous. And if it’s as bad as that video makes out then the only solution to guarantee the safety of cyclists is for them to take personal responsibility and cease riding on the road.

Just as we allow and accept that 1500 or so people will die on our roads each year, cyclists either need to accept the risks involved or stop riding on the road. Emotional videos like this won’t alter the behaviour of most motorists.

Of course, awareness campaigns are good and I fully support the give cyclists a metre campaign getting traction recently and, like I said, I’m happy to wait a few seconds, keep an eye out and do whatever I can to ensure I’m no more risk to a cyclist than they are to me.

However, none of this stops the inherent dangers of bikes sharing the road with cars/trucks etc. It’s risky and until cyclists are separated from motorised traffic those risks are never going to go away.

If you’re concerned about not being here for your kids and fear the dangers of cycling on the road, the answer’s pretty simple. Sadly, expecting the vast majority of selfish motorists to give a shit about your welfare is like living in la la land.

Most motorists don’t give a crap about each other, why would they care about you?

As a very regular pedestrian who has to put up with incredibly ignorant cyclists, I think the cycling brigade needs to get their act in order before criticising others.

Use your bell – it’s the law! Don’t tear in large groups through groups of pedestrians, specially where there are lots of kids and animals around the lake.

Some courtesy and common sense would go a long way, for all sides of this debate.

Felix the Cat said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Ever noticed what the Canberrra motorcycle cops wear in Summer? They have jodphur looking pants but only a short sleeve shirt. Motorcycles generally go a lot faster than bicycles and would therefore stand to lose a lotmore skin than a cyclist if they fell off

Pet hate.

As a motorcyclist, I find it appalling that some (not all, but it does certinaly seem to be a large percentage) of the motorcycle cops think it is acceptable to be wearing anything other than all the gear, all the time.

Given they are on our tax payers money, they should be wearing the appropriate safety gear. It is far, far cheaper to have the gear on than it is to fix what’s left of the rider…

Be a pessemist. Plan for or expect the worst and when it doesn’t happen, you can be pleasently surprised!

dph said :

The reason this video won’t work is because it comes off as if cyclists are completely in the right & can do no wrong.

I see plenty of cyclists who ride like a**holes & completely disobey basic road rules.

The debate will never end until both sides can agree that we’re all equal. All have the right to use the roads & we should all be working together.

I bet these riders were being complete arseholes:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-16/man-jailed-attacking-cyclists-near-canberra/5158900?&section=news

Felix the Cat said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Holy dooley this morning I watched as a temporary Australian brought traffic to a halt on State Circle as she turned right off Canberra Ave and wobbled along in the middle of two lanes of traffic doing approximately 5km/h in a 70km/h zone. Both lanes of traffic had to stop because no-one knew where she was going.

Oh noes did you have to slow down for 5 seconds? You must go into mental meltdown when you have to stop for a red light.

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

She is probably a lovely person and no-one on the road wanted to cause her any damage, particularly as she was wearing shorts and a singlet and would have suffered severe injuries had she even just fallen off her bike.

What do you suggest she wears, full body armour? Maybe a burka as well?

Ever noticed what the Canberrra motorcycle cops wear in Summer? They have jodphur looking pants but only a short sleeve shirt. Motorcycles generally go a lot faster than bicycles and would therefore stand to lose a lotmore skin than a cyclist if they fell off

Were you riding on State Circle at 8.30am this morning?

It’s not about losing five seconds out of my commute, it’s about someone putting themself and everyone around them in danger.

This cyclist was riding dangerously on a busy road with a speed limit well above her ability. Next to an off-road cycle path.

My point was and remains that cyclists can’t have it both ways. They can’t complain about motorists if they choose to ride in the middle of two lanes on a four-lane, 70km/h road in peak hour wearing shorts and a singlet, endangering themselves and the motorists around them, when there is a *slightly less than* perfectly good off-road bike path less than 10m away.

Unlike the cyclist, I didn’t have the option to drive on the bike path or the footpath, just the road.

Not sure where the burqua comment came from.

Felix the Cat said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Holy dooley this morning I watched as a temporary Australian brought traffic to a halt on State Circle as she turned right off Canberra Ave and wobbled along in the middle of two lanes of traffic doing approximately 5km/h in a 70km/h zone. Both lanes of traffic had to stop because no-one knew where she was going.

Oh noes did you have to slow down for 5 seconds? You must go into mental meltdown when you have to stop for a red light.

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

She is probably a lovely person and no-one on the road wanted to cause her any damage, particularly as she was wearing shorts and a singlet and would have suffered severe injuries had she even just fallen off her bike.

What do you suggest she wears, full body armour? Maybe a burka as well?

Ever noticed what the Canberrra motorcycle cops wear in Summer? They have jodphur looking pants but only a short sleeve shirt. Motorcycles generally go a lot faster than bicycles and would therefore stand to lose a lotmore skin than a cyclist if they fell off

Yes, because riding motorcycles in short sleeve shirts should be encouraged. Are you daft?

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Holy dooley this morning I watched as a temporary Australian brought traffic to a halt on State Circle as she turned right off Canberra Ave and wobbled along in the middle of two lanes of traffic doing approximately 5km/h in a 70km/h zone. Both lanes of traffic had to stop because no-one knew where she was going.

Oh noes did you have to slow down for 5 seconds? You must go into mental meltdown when you have to stop for a red light.

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

She is probably a lovely person and no-one on the road wanted to cause her any damage, particularly as she was wearing shorts and a singlet and would have suffered severe injuries had she even just fallen off her bike.

What do you suggest she wears, full body armour? Maybe a burka as well?

Ever noticed what the Canberrra motorcycle cops wear in Summer? They have jodphur looking pants but only a short sleeve shirt. Motorcycles generally go a lot faster than bicycles and would therefore stand to lose a lotmore skin than a cyclist if they fell off

Kudos for not pretending they are cycling because of environmental concerns!

460cixy said :

I ride my bike because I’m a self righteous arsehole !

Obvious troll is obvious

I ride my bike because I’m a self righteous arsehole !

carnardly said :

ausbradr said :

those who don’t use perfectly good cycle paths, .

sigh…

they might be perfectly good cycle paths – but if they don’t go where we want them to go – and we need to stop every 200 m for a cross street and traffic, and bounce over lumpy bits and tree roots, or we need to get where we’re going as directly and quickly as possible, then we’ll take the direct route via the on road lanes instead okay?

The roads don’t go where I want them to either – but that doesn’t mean I can drive on the footpath or across a school oval just because it would be faster.

Holy dooley this morning I watched as a temporary Australian brought traffic to a halt on State Circle as she turned right off Canberra Ave and wobbled along in the middle of two lanes of traffic doing approximately 5km/h in a 70km/h zone. Both lanes of traffic had to stop because no-one knew where she was going.

She is probably a lovely person and no-one on the road wanted to cause her any damage, particularly as she was wearing shorts and a singlet and would have suffered severe injuries had she even just fallen off her bike.

However this is a classic example of cyclists wanting it both ways. There is a bike path beside State Circle. Obviously it might be a little inconvenient for a cyclist to cross the road and use it. But how inconvenient is it to make 10 cars brake and wait for one cyclist, who is not even dressed appropriately to protect themselves should they hit a bump and fall off all by themselves?

dph said :

The reason this video won’t work is because it comes off as if cyclists are completely in the right & can do no wrong.

I see plenty of cyclists who ride like a**holes & completely disobey basic road rules.

The debate will never end until both sides can agree that we’re all equal. All have the right to use the roads & we should all be working together.

Did you watch the same video that I watched?

The one I watched addressed the issue you raised from 3:10 onwards.

The reason this video won’t work is because it’s a load of sappy, patronising crap.

The reason this video won’t work is because it comes off as if cyclists are completely in the right & can do no wrong.

I see plenty of cyclists who ride like a**holes & completely disobey basic road rules.

The debate will never end until both sides can agree that we’re all equal. All have the right to use the roads & we should all be working together.

carnardly said :

ausbradr said :

those who don’t use perfectly good cycle paths, .

sigh…

they might be perfectly good cycle paths – but if they don’t go where we want them to go – and we need to stop every 200 m for a cross street and traffic, and bounce over lumpy bits and tree roots, or we need to get where we’re going as directly and quickly as possible, then we’ll take the direct route via the on road lanes instead okay?

If it goes the wrong way, is full of lumps and bumps and has a bajillion stops, then it’s not perfectly good is it…

Not advocating anything, just sayin’

carnardly said :

ausbradr said :

those who don’t use perfectly good cycle paths, .

sigh…

they might be perfectly good cycle paths – but if they don’t go where we want them to go – and we need to stop every 200 m for a cross street and traffic, and bounce over lumpy bits and tree roots…?

So the bike paths are as bad as the roads then? At least they don’t chip seal the bike paths.

ausbradr said :

those who don’t use perfectly good cycle paths

And perhaps a crackdown on trolls.

ausbradr said :

those who don’t use perfectly good cycle paths, .

sigh…

they might be perfectly good cycle paths – but if they don’t go where we want them to go – and we need to stop every 200 m for a cross street and traffic, and bounce over lumpy bits and tree roots, or we need to get where we’re going as directly and quickly as possible, then we’ll take the direct route via the on road lanes instead okay?

Brianna said :

Cyclists have a right to share the road. Cyclists MUST obey the traffic laws. The pedestrian crossing in Challis St Dickson is a nightmare. Very rare for a cyclist to dismount and walk their bike across this pedestrian crossing.

was going to post pretty much the same thing, the lass (probably early 20’s) not wearing her helmet and who darted across thepedestrian crossing on the tradies side of maccas on saturday night is a good example of this. I had a fair idea she was going to do it so was covering the brakes but she still nearly ended up on the front of the car. All I got in return for a quick beep was a shrug of the shoulders as she rode off.

if cyclists are pissing off other cyclists then they are doing it wrong

Personally I don’t think anyone will wake up to that (very sensible) message until the police crack down on both sides of the motorist v. cyclist war. (Hefty fines for red light running cyclists / those who don’t use perfectly good cycle paths, and hefty fines or jailtime for those who intimidate or harass cyclists, unprovoked.

Great video though. It’s very valid. However I don’t think it’ll change many minds until the police and courts take the issue seriously.

neanderthalsis said :

Dear self righteous cyclist (not all of you, but there are some who certainly are)

Not all accidents are the fault of the motorist. If you try not to be stupid, we will try not to be stupid.

Regards,

Self righteous motorist.

P.S.
You don’t have the monopoly on keeping fit. Just because I drive doesn’t mean I don’t participate in other activities.
.

Yep, yep & yep. Cyclists have a right to share the road. Cyclists MUST obey the traffic laws. The pedestrian crossing in Challis St Dickson is a nightmare. Very rare for a cyclist to dismount and walk their bike across this pedestrian crossing. I understand that many cyclists are worried about a car door opening in their faces. Are they aware that I am scared of hitting them when they do something illegal and obviously unexpected? I’m tired of seeing some cyclists take the best of both worlds. Cycle like mad on the road and as soon as it hits a red light, they zoom onto the pedestrian crossing at the lights to get through and then once past the lights, back on the road. Make up your mind what you want to do and stick to it.

Dear self righteous cyclist (not all of you, but there are some who certainly are)

Not all accidents are the fault of the motorist. If you try not to be stupid, we will try not to be stupid.

Regards,

Self righteous motorist.

P.S.
You don’t have the monopoly on keeping fit. Just because I drive doesn’t mean I don’t participate in other activities.

PPS
I too enjoy our the environment, especially as it passes by at 100kmph.

PPPS
Please don’t wear lycra.

Definitely won’t flame that…I think it’s an important reminder.

I am a cyclist as well as a motorist. I also admit that until I started cycling on a regular basis that I didn’t pay as much attention as I should have for cyclists and sometimes got irritated with them in my lane etc etc.

I now see that cyclists just want to be safe and seen. It’s damn scary out there at times – even riding next to parked cars is hair-raising at times as people open their doors without looking (sometimes leading to serious injury for cyclists). Pedestrians don’t watch for us, motorists can be aggressive and thoughtless. We need to be the most vigilent on the road.

I have narrowly avoided being hit a couple of times and even had a car make contact with me on one occasion. I am a very cautious rider and only ride in designated bike lanes or sharepath facilities…so it goes to show that even doing all the right things, cyclists are still in danger.

I live in Sydney now where motorists are even less mindful of cyclists and more aggressive at times.

Cyclists should all take care and motorists should remember that the road is there for both of us. Be patient and give cyclists space. This not only applies when moving, but also after you park – check for cyclists.

On another note, I don’t really like how these videos use guilt to put across a message so much – it doesn’t matter if someone was a wife or husband or had 3000 kids…each life is important and should be valued and respected by others.

Thanks for posting link 🙂