10 October 2007

All Ages No Alcohol gig (at a pub): not pretty.

| Carzee
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I photographed an All Ages thrash/scream metal gig at Jamison Inn last Sunday. The line-up was 4 Dead, 50Lions, and Parkway Drive –all from north coast NSW. Disclosure: I am late 40’s.

Anyway, from the first chord of the first song of the first band there was a LAM, large area mosh. It was like someone threw a switch. Well, lets get physical! Lets get violent! I’ve seen mosh before, but at gigs like Wolfmother etc the security dudes damp it right down pretty quick as they can and get rid of the nasty -usually drunk- boofheads that can ruin it for others. Well, this was an under-18 event and these guys were not drunk. I’d guess they were on caffeine or red cordial because they moved around very fast. ‘Frenzied’ fits here. So does ‘disturbed’.

I don’t think it can last. Yeah, I know, “alert the fun police”… but who’s insurance company was covering this? If my 15 something year old was in there at risk from the stage diving and human dodgem cars etc I’d be concerned. [ I didn’t include a ref to girls just then because this mosh stuff is a wannabe alpha male thing apparently. A smaller percentage of the audience were female. They were there waving their arms around but unable to see much to the front and sensibly staying out of the way of the running-jumping-shoving rumble in the center which looked like a gang fight with a soundtrack].

It may be a Jamison thing. The band’s singer encouraged “this weird thing you do down here” and launched in another set of lyrics. Thats being kind btw. The rock star wannabe also felt it a necessary part of the thrash scene to fill the breaks with very very crude/off jokes about oral sex with babies (3 or 4 jokes on the subject) and one other obligatory joke about sex during menstruation.

The main act had about 1 metre of space between themselves and The Front Squashees at the front of the audience. By the time this photo was taken the energy level had died off a tad (!) and the worst of the boofheads-on-cordial were most probably worn out. In this pic you can’t see The Front Squashees, but they’re down there.

Jamieson Inn

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Jon Dangerous1:14 pm 16 Oct 07

Yeah, I know, I kinda wrote that in a rush… gives it a genuine rant feel. Thanks for the syntax snobbery.

Danman_straight6_EB_Falcodore8:13 am 16 Oct 07

and this one from the google ads down the bottom

Strofes Greek Band – Aust
‘Melbourne’s Premier Greek Band’ Greek, English & Italian Music’

Rock on google ads \m/

Danman_straight6_EB_Falcodore9:47 pm 15 Oct 07

Hey jon tell ados meatloaf says hello 😛

Jon Dangerous6:56 pm 15 Oct 07

So… I missed all of this as I was away for a few days. This was forwarded to me by a friend. I wouldn’t normally reply to this sort of a thread and I’m not even sure that anyone else cares anymore or at all, but here’s some facts:
“Carzee” actually came up to us after the show and gave us some positive feedback, right to our faces. Very little negative comments were made by him, none about us in particular, there was some mention of the crazy pit… we assumed this guy hadn’t been to too many punk or hardcore punk shows. So… I think in light of this, I think his views expressed here are a little strange.
I also find that his internet barrage is a little ignorant and ill-informed. There really isn’t much else that upsets me more than gutter journalism or keyboard ninjas that use the internet to spread pure rubbish.
As the vocalist in 4 dead, I know for a fact that I said one joke that may not have been in the best taste but in no way was it sexist, in fact it had nothing to do with sex what so ever. The Jokes which offended him, said by kids in the crowd, also offended me a little too. I also didn’t think that they were the most appropriate due to the age of the kids at the gig etc. But it’s their call.
On Rockstardom: This is a personal attack. Not one person attacked your character as a 40+ year old Male with a camera at a show where the average age of those who attended would’ve been 16 IF that. You clearly have no idea about DIY / Punk ethics held dear to bands like ourselves. That established, I think you have also forgotten what it’s like to be an angry young man living in Australia. Maybe you should give both the kids that are part of this more credit, particularly the womyn! I believe you have once again mis-represented both myself as well as 4 dead by stating that we encouraged the alpha male behaviour, as you put it. The thing that strikes me is by commenting about what was going on in the audience, I was suggesting that people may use the space a little differently, prompting the kids to approach the stage and close down the area being used for circle pits etc.
As far as legal matters are concerned, you’ve missed the point. These people don’t want to sit in a chair at the sydney football stadium or wherever. They don’t want barriers. They, as minors, certainly don’t want to be dragged outside of a gig they’ve payed $20 for and kicked til they bleed from a bouncer. They don’t want to be told what to do… how many weeks of a paper run, or how many pizzas delivered, burgers made is that for a kid? Punk has always been about accessing music and being involved. Musicians aren’t looking to be put on a pedestal here, they’re just angry kids being boxed in by a plethora of social pressures (as are the people who come to shows). It’s supposed to be about taking all the shit things out of music and music industry. It’s about “F*ck you! I don’t want your war, or your beer or your overpriced ticketmaster or your platinum club tickets. F*ck Big Day Out. F*ck Wolfmother and F*CK YOU! If your into it, I’m NOT.” I emphasise the word “supposed”.
On top of that, do you think when Iggy Pop was busy pissing blood onto people and breaking ribs that people were thinking “Öh dear, what a liability!”. Or how would Jimmy Hendrix have set his guitar on fire if he was thinking about public liability? Due to people like yourself, with these opinions, characters like Ray Ahn from the Hard Ons can’t breathe fire on stage anymore. I don’t wanna see the day when gigs become predictable.
By a book, read up. This is how it should be. No rules. No bouncers. No Rockstars. No authority figures. A great leveller.
For someone who seems very unsure about the legalities of these shows, I sure hope you had written permission from the correct people to be photographing minors. You wanna be careful with that stuff.
Stick to Jazz.
Jon Dangerous

I was in the mosh pit at the Crowded House concert. When I started feeling lonely, I went out to the counter and brought myself some popcorn and a soda.

Plenty of room though.

hingo_VRCalaisV612:15 pm 11 Oct 07

They aren’t flames mate, its stating facts and its how it has always been. Its the nature of the beast.

Well, the smirky response amongst our RA brainstrust is summed up by (quote) “I hope I never get old enough to be concerned about it.”

“Nobody got hurt”. Amen.

In general, the (combined) powers of comprehension shown in these posts are a monument to Sesame Street.

Genre? Pretty irrelevant. Messenger? Irrelevant. Machismo and socialisation of juveniles in Canberra is also irrelevant.

The point, a term explained in “Conversational Skills For Dummies”, is the double standard.

Common sense about crowd safety is currently to be observed at some gigs -in part because of liability- but virtually ignored at other irresponsible gigs.

All it takes is one judgement for $millions (teenagers have a lot of years of salary in front of them) and your All Ages as they currently exist are gone. You are proposing that there must be victims to prove the case for common sense.

At that point, following a point raised upthread, the kidies will be without a proper indoor venue and then their anti-socialization paradigm is back on the streets vandalising cars etc.

Common sense and care for gig patrons should not be dependant on age fgs.

Sorry if my tone is a tad narky after the flames and sorry I wasted time at RA.

el ......VNBerlinaV810:25 pm 10 Oct 07

Comparing this with the ‘mosh’ at *Wolfmother* FFS? Ridiculous.

Now, I’m happy to say this isn’t the sort of music I usually get into, but …4DEAD f*ckin KICK ARSE! 2 of the most enjoyable gigs I went to last year were theirs, ‘large area mosh’ and all. And guess what – NOBODY got hurt.

(Yer too old, sorry.)

BUT – I have to admit, I’m not completely across all these crazy subgenres of metal these days like ‘Nu wave sludge punk american metalcore 5000 +1’. I think it’s kind of dumb for these thousands of subgenres to even exist as terms… But y’know, I didn’t mean my previous comment to sound mean, since it’s understandable. That’s all.

(Sorry about the double-post!)

Something you need to note, Carzee – there’s a big difference between hardcore and metal in terms of genre, and similarly a big difference between the moshing at metal gigs and hardcore fans’ ridiculous antics.

Absent Diane1:13 pm 10 Oct 07

hey princess has anyone ever told you how gorgeous you are???

Man gigs like this have been going on since the 80’s. It’s great to see the kids throwing themselves around to some decent hardcore like 4 Dead and 50 Lions, but I really draw the line at Parkway. Massively derivative metalcore without any real original songwriting.

PS: 4 Dead are a Canberra band.

Danman_straight6_EB_Falcodore12:32 pm 10 Oct 07

get a hand up or give a hand up sorry…..

Danman_straight6_EB_Falcodore12:32 pm 10 Oct 07

I am almost 30 and love a little bit of a circle at gigs liek this – like someone said – the dickheads get worked out pretty soon and the genuine people always get a hand up or are offered a hand up…..good outlet for emotion – I mean hell – these kids could be out casing cars and stuff – I reckon if my 15 year old girl wanted to go I would let her – not like its a culture of drugs and organised crime.

Mike Crowther11:33 am 10 Oct 07

Pull up a bit Carzee. This is an event ostensively for kids. For gods sake they’ve got to have somewhere to cut loose or we’ll end up with a totally neurotic generation. We cotton-wool school age ones enough now day’s, at least let the teenagers scream and slam each other. Believe it or not they’re learning to socialise as well as having fun. You can’t condemn something just because its outside your cultural paradigm. I’m over 50 and though I still enjoy the odd Metal moment, joining in a mosh pit is simply not on my menu. (But then they aren’t designed for us are they?)

I’d be more worried about creepy old guys taking photo’s of 15yo girls! Just joking.

I will make sure I drag you into the mosh with me if I see you at the next gig.

hingo_VRCalaisV611:12 am 10 Oct 07

I went to concerts on my own when I was 14 and I would always get in the mosh and have a fucking blast. I’m now 10 years older and still enjoy a good moshpit. I hope I never get old enough to be concerned about it.

Boo hoo. Welcome to Canberra, buddy. We like our metal loud and our moshpits reeking. If you feel you’re not up to it then go and stand up the back with the girlfriends. Rock n roll!

oh no, a band within a metre of the audience! alert the authorities!

yes, some people occasionally get hurt. but people get hurt having showers, too. at least at a hardcore show, there’s (often) a fair sense of unity, and people will be there to pick you up/drag you out. don’t be a tool, and people will respect you – they’re all there to have a good time.

that said, 4dead often go a fair way over the top though.

Absent Diane10:38 am 10 Oct 07

if you go in – you are fair game. if you fall over normally someone will try and pick you up.. the fckers I hate are the ones that come screaming in from the back somewhere to join the mosh knocking over those who are just at the back where it is nice and roomy, having dance. I have scared the fck out of some hardcore pussies that have knocked my girlfriend down in that circumstance. Don’t fck wit da jesus!!

People complain if there is alcohol…People complain if there isn’t alcohol…It’s a no win situation…

All ages usually means anyone under 18…If you didn’t like it maybe search for a club that accommodates late 40s on a Sunday??

Looks like fun to me.

Kevin, to clarify, this was my first hardcore under 18’s gig. I am a recent arrival from Newcastle, a place not short of hardcore.

In Newie and Sydeny over 18 hardcore gigs/venues I have attended, the publicans have at least one eye on their licence/insurance, and the crowd is controlled by security persons and stage barriers (some effective, some not).

Locally, the Greenroom security (hardcore gig or not) will definitely put you outside for stage diving and assaulting other patrons etc.

In part I’m saying the “All Ages” label at this gig, at this pub, on this occasion, with this minimalist security… is a niche for boofheads who can’t “be themselves” at properly secured pubs/clubs.

Gonna be okay with your 15 yo daughter going there?

\m/ \m/

Reminds me of the old days at the now demolished Civic Youth Centre
2nd the Parkway Drive are awesome comment.

The rules of the mosh are if you can’t take it, don’t go there. Never been in any violence and a Metal Gig, lots of energy, rarely violence. Can’t say the same for mainstream pop though

hingo_VRCalaisV68:41 am 10 Oct 07

Parkway Drive are pretty awesome. Gigs where the whole crowd are going nuts like that are the best.

Danman_straight6_EB_Falcodore8:20 am 10 Oct 07

4 dead = Canberra band – I used to work with the drummer.

Your first time at a hardcore gig, or what?

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