And the winner is Stanhope!

Mulcahy = bitter?

How can you say that about such a nice person!

I just wish Labor voters would clean out their deadwood too: Hargreaves and Gallagher don’t deserve to be in Govt.

I suspect so too – SPOTTED DICK!

I think it’s Bruce K!

I think that Dave Peebles will get in. I voted for Coe, but Peeles ran the best / most noticeanble campaign on the Labor side.

By the way – I have a new RiotAct game. The challenge is to figure out which Newbie name Richard Mulcahy is using to sew his seeds of bitterness in the after life? If you think you’ve spotted Richard, then exclaim “SPOTTED DICK!”

jimbocool said :

@thetruth – the Stefaniak Purchase as you so aptly put it demonstrated that a fair proportion of his vote was personal, once he left a big chunk of votes went with him. It also showed that Vicki Dunne is not popular – conventional wisdom would be that when an experienced player leaves, his or her vote would transfer to the next most experienced one – not in this case. Rather than go with Dunne they preferred a young Lib culture warrior!

So the Stefaniak Purchase represented a good investment. I wonder if Bill had stuck around for the election and then retired after (ah la Connelly Follett et al. How many votes would have been dragged into the Lib group.

Can anyone tell me (or predict)that:

If Stanhope gets done over and then quits the assembly – who would replace him from Ginniderra?

As I understand the system, it is the next cab off the rank.

“Doszpot for leader – smart operator but please he’s 60
Coe for Leader – still wet behind the ears and has a plum in his mouth
Vicki for Leader – the biggest liberal leaker of all time, had a direct source to the CT
Smyth – not again
Zed not much to challenge you is there, just watch our Lt Col, he’s a trained knifer

So all in all the Libs are screwed for 4 years. It will be interesting to see who stays around on the party’s management committee to help dig them out of this hole. Rumour has it that the current President Jackboot Winnifred has operated the party like an Ostrich head down and not looking where they were going and didn’t do enough to heal the relationship with the money club so they are financially down the rabbit hole. Nice work Winny.

Watch out for a challenge from the Young Libs for the minor roles on Management Committee at the AGM coming up soon. They could probably do a better job than the current idiots.

The old guard will be held accountable for the election loss and also what they promised to do at last year’s AGM that they haven’t delivered on. Goodbye to Barnier, De Domenico, and Rickard. Faulkner won’t go he was tireless in the election campaign. President Rosser may get another term as she has the ear of the Young Libs.”

Bruce K – what a strange post – full of incorrect claims (I won’t say which). You’re just a troublemaker. Looking for a position on their Management Committee yourself, are you?

Rather than go with Dunne they preferred a young Lib culture warrior!

The YLCW in question must have spent a motza on his campaign because his signs were everywhere, and I hardly spotted Vicki at all (small mercies …).

Here’s a new slogan .. “Where’d Coe, get his dough?!”

@thetruth – the Stefaniak Purchase as you so aptly put it demonstrated that a fair proportion of his vote was personal, once he left a big chunk of votes went with him. It also showed that Vicki Dunne is not popular – conventional wisdom would be that when an experienced player leaves, his or her vote would transfer to the next most experienced one – not in this case. Rather than go with Dunne they preferred a young Lib culture warrior!

Listening to PC Hunter this morning I got the distinct impression that they undersold themselves, and they are just beginning to realise it. A free tip PC Hunter, you can stop the Data Centre via the use of a Disallowance Motion in the Assembly once ACTPLA approves the application. It would also help if you just were upfront and said, “we went with Labor even though they offered us less becasue we couldn’t abide joining with a bunch of mad fundos.”

And finally, Steve Doszpot is very much a “don’t backchat me, I know boats” kind of guy – he may well provide the comic relief in this assembly.

imhotep said :

I reckon the Greens campaigned on them not being either of the major parties. THAT’S why they got 4 seats.

Agreed. The Greens were fortunate that there was no other real alternative for voters to choose over the major parties.

Today’s C Times shows just how desperate Seselja and his team were to wrest government from Stanhope. They were offering the Greens the Deputy Chief Minister role and 2 other ministries. And just imagine for a moment if Dunne, Coe or Doszpot were to be given a ministry. Only Smyth has any ministerial experience. Dunne has been hopeless in Opposition. She never actually does anything. Coe is wet behind the ears and has just left home to go out into the big world on his own. What an achievement! He made his mark fighting battles amongst the Young Liberals and is an ardent admirer of Mulcahy and Kent. They are also Doszpot’s fellow travellers. His claim to fame is soccer years ago and having 3 goes at becoming an MLA. The Liberals must now aim for 2016. With their curent team they have no hope in 2012.

Goanna said :

It is spelt ‘Smyth’ and is pronounced ‘Smith’. As unpleasant as i find him, you should do him the courtesy of getting his name right.

I’m intrigued by the post saying how helpful he was with constituent stuff. If i remember correctly the chart that came out a few months ago, he’d written about 100 something letters (compared with 1600 for Ms Porter). Perhaps he has an admirable ‘quality over quantity’ approach.

I find it a bit hard to believe that Mr Doszpot’s name is being bandied about in here as next leader. The guy is a friendly old nitwit. A vainer version of Mr stefaniak. And I don’t think Mr Seselja’s position is under real threat – there are simply no cohesives factions larger than one person in the Liberal Party at this moment.

I for one am watching Mr Hanson. There is a glint of steel around that fellow that is a rare trait in the sheltered workshop that is the Legislative Assembly.

Yes the Glint of Steel that comes from being an army officer. Minister for defence oops we don’t have a defence force, minister for a knife in the back – ah we have plenty of those – he will fit in perfectly. I have done my research on our Lt Col Hanson, the Libs (read Zed) may wish they had too. Very tricky fellow – not respected amongst his peers. Bit of a kiss arse they said. Likes the sound of his own voice and thinks he knows what he is talking about.

Doszpot for leader – smart operator but please he’s 60
Coe for Leader – still wet behind the ears and has a plum in his mouth
Vicki for Leader – the biggest liberal leaker of all time, had a direct source to the CT
Smyth – not again
Zed not much to challenge you is there, just watch our Lt Col, he’s a trained knifer

So all in all the Libs are screwed for 4 years. It will be interesting to see who stays around on the party’s management committee to help dig them out of this hole. Rumour has it that the current President Jackboot Winnifred has operated the party like an Ostrich head down and not looking where they were going and didn’t do enough to heal the relationship with the money club so they are financially down the rabbit hole. Nice work Winny.

Watch out for a challenge from the Young Libs for the minor roles on Management Committee at the AGM coming up soon. They could probably do a better job than the current idiots.

The old guard will be held accountable for the election loss and also what they promised to do at last year’s AGM that they haven’t delivered on. Goodbye to Barnier, De Domenico, and Rickard. Faulkner won’t go he was tireless in the election campaign. President Rosser may get another term as she has the ear of the Young Libs.

To be fair, Jaqui Burke was never popular – elected on countbacks twice before finally being elected outright in 2004.

Doszpot nearly offed Pratt in 2004 as well. Because Smyth didn’t make quota outright (not being leader probably didn’t help :P) Pratt didn’t have Smyth’s overflow to put him ahead.
Pratt being offed makes perfect sense given that.

Sorry for being stupid…..you are so course rightI am not an insider. I was more talking about who got hammered in the Libs and it seemed to be more the old guard who were seen as the destabilising forces (both sides of the internal arguement)

This result was the worst for Smyth ever…. I actually like the guy but his vote was down 2% on pre-leadership vote. The group suffered at the hands of Pratt and Bouke (again old destables guard).

Jimcool you seem a cluey person- what was the impact of the Stefaniak purchase on the Ginninderra vote?

Just on swings – last election the Libs were pretty much at the lowest they could be and get 7 seats (with the exception of Brindabella where another 1000 first preferences would have made things very interesting). Any swing anagainst them in 2008 was going to cause trouble – and indeed it did with the loss of a seat in Molonglo. Last time Zed was lucky to get elected, only a foavourable distribution between Barr and Hettinger saved him, this time the second green got elected in that place by a relative mile.

For someone having his fourth tilt, Brendan Smyth was only behind Stanhope and miles ahead of anyone else. He was easily the second best Lib, behind Zed who had the big electorate of Molonglo and a lazy $400k campaign behind him and still only managed to consolidate the Lib vote – he didn’t bring anyone new to the ballot group. There are a number of possible causes for the reduced Smyth vote – chiefly no longer being leader is easily worth 0.5 of a quota – but the ballot group as a whole suffered, which points to a campaign issue.

T use the vote to Mulcahy as some sort of measure is stupidity of a high order, thetruth, a swing to someone who doesn’t get elected in hare clark is meaningless -it’s the ultimate destination of their preferences that count. Mulchay’s preferences ended up, in the main, with the Libs. The swing against them in Molonglo is down to other factors.

If a park has a sign on it saying “park”, rather than a sign saying “reserved for future road”, for a few decades, people will generally feel as though it is a park. Perhaps even ‘their’ park. So you’re going to have to make a case for turning it into a road.

heinous said :

How can you ‘ruin’ something that was never there?

Just had a quick squiz – it seems to be there at the moment.

sepi said :

“Noone campaigned at the election on putting that road in. Greens campaigned on not putting it in, and got 4 seats.”

I reckon the Greens campaigned on them not being either of the major parties. THAT’S why they got 4 seats.

.

Noone campaigned at the election on putting that road in.

Greens campaigned on not putting it in, and got 4 seats.

sepi, you gave a proposal and said “It would be a very long term proposal, but quite doable I think”. I commend you for this as I feel long term proposals are the best ones. The thing about long term proposals is sticking to them and not coming up with new ones every five minutes. I would suggest that we stick to the original long term proposal that was put 50 years ago.

As for the statement “And it doesn’t actually really go anywhere useful”, I would beg to differ as it would significantly reduce the traffic on Limestone Avenue. This is very important for people commuting from South to North and for Canberra in general. It is logical to put this road in place. We live in a City, Cities grow and need new roads to evolve. This area was always planned for those new roads.

Also, the govt have installed signs at various entrances to ‘canberra nature park’ so they think it is one.

cos the road isn’t there and the trees etc are.

Shane R got loads of votes by promising to remove it from the plan – i hope it goes asap.

Monash Drive would ruin Mt Ainslie and Mt Majura nature parks.

I’m a little confused. I’ve had a look at one of my old books on Canberra (The Long View by Lional Wigmore, page 187) from 1962 and Monash Drive is clearly shown on the maps. Note this is before the days of the existence of places like Woden, Belconnen and Majura Road. The area is not a ‘nature park’, it is land that has been reserved for a road for over 50 years. How can you ‘ruin’ something that was never there?

It is spelt ‘Smyth’ and is pronounced ‘Smith’. As unpleasant as i find him, you should do him the courtesy of getting his name right.

I’m intrigued by the post saying how helpful he was with constituent stuff. If i remember correctly the chart that came out a few months ago, he’d written about 100 something letters (compared with 1600 for Ms Porter). Perhaps he has an admirable ‘quality over quantity’ approach.

I find it a bit hard to believe that Mr Doszpot’s name is being bandied about in here as next leader. The guy is a friendly old nitwit. A vainer version of Mr stefaniak. And I don’t think Mr Seselja’s position is under real threat – there are simply no cohesives factions larger than one person in the Liberal Party at this moment.

I for one am watching Mr Hanson. There is a glint of steel around that fellow that is a rare trait in the sheltered workshop that is the Legislative Assembly.

2. I agree with VY about the Greens’ sell-out with respect to no-confidence motions. How did they let this slip through? It seems to go against the Greens’ expressed cross-bench principles . . .

The right to criticise comes with the responsibility to be prepared to do a better job. The Greens have not taken on any responsibilities in the government they are supporting, so it is only fair that they give up the right to bring it down on a whim. When they are prepared to make the tough decisions they can have the power that goes with it.

sepi: They’re only “working towards” it because they have to ask the NCA to actually remove it from the Territory Plan, it’s not an ACT Government only decision.

Monash Drive would ruin Mt Ainslie and Mt Majura nature parks.

And it doesn’t actually really go anywhere useful.

If I were the govt, I’d be tackling inner north congestion by buying up houses along Limestone AVE as they came available (they seem to be always for sale), turning them into govvie housing, and then once they own the whole lot, demolishing one side of the road, and adding a few more lanes.

It would be a very long term proposal, but quite doable I think.

To me, Smythe seems to stand for one thing – Smythe.

IMO he’ll only voice an opinion publically if he thinks there will be votes in it for himself.

Brendan Smyth is a productive and helpful local member. I have been extremely satisfied with his representations on my behalf over the years, eg he has assisted with a hospital waiting list issue and was helpful and involved with a threatened school closure issue. Steve Pratt, who is very pro education and has been extremely supportive and helpful about the power station issue, is a sincere and effective member and I am sorry he has not been able to get a quota. It seems this is simply down to the general disgruntlement, resulting in a swing away from the majors to the minors I rate them both far better than John Hargreaves. I am surprised some RiotACTers perceive these two the way they do.

About the agreement:
1. I have a theory that MLAs who spend a lot of their time on committees (as valuable as this contribution is) lose their community profile as these committees are so time-consuming. I am a bit worried now I see that Labor have successfully buried the Greens in several committees, which will keep them very busy . . . this is what’s called a ‘long term strategy’!

2. I agree with VY about the Greens’ sell-out with respect to no-confidence motions. How did they let this slip through? It seems to go against the Greens’ expressed cross-bench principles . . .

BerraBoy68 said :

Tezza said :

when the libs went into opposition he (Smythe) showed a mean streak a mile wide.

Agreed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Smythe is already engineering his next bid to become leader again. If Zed is at all interested in keeping his position as leader, he’ll need to keep Smythe very close in the next four years.

For mine, the best result for the Libs in this election is the election of Doszpot. He’s a genuine bloke that actually cares about people. He’ll really make his presence felt and, I would suggest he is a prime candidate to become future liberal leader and even Chief Minister.

Brendan Smyth as leader? who’s going to vote for him?
People are seriously deranged on this subject. He isn’t engineering anything.
His allies were Pratt and Burke.
They’re gone.
Who is he going to team up with? Vicki Dunne who’d always been on the other side?
Doszpot or Coe, who are so overtly opposed to him it isn’t funny?

Doszpot’s far more likely as you freely admit, to succeed Zed.
Not specifically because he’s great or anything but because he could probably get the votes eventually.

Tezza said :

when the libs went into opposition he (Smythe) showed a mean streak a mile wide.

Agreed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Smythe is already engineering his next bid to become leader again. If Zed is at all interested in keeping his position as leader, he’ll need to keep Smythe very close in the next four years.

For mine, the best result for the Libs in this election is the election of Doszpot. He’s a genuine bloke that actually cares about people. He’ll really make his presence felt and, I would suggest he is a prime candidate to become future liberal leader and even Chief Minister.

Smythe was quite a good minister, but when the libs went into opposition he showed a mean streak a mile wide.

I think he will, like Simon Crean, be remembered for ever more as an opposition whinger.

Does anybody know why they don’t want Monash Drive?

thetruth said :

Agree with most of your post, but …. the green vote is actually lower than the traditional combined green democrat (bar 2004 when there was a shift to the majors). I think unity would have held Lib vote (less going to motorist etc)

What would have been a far, far better would have been if the community alliance had gone and ran with better lead candidates. Mark Parton could quite possibly have nabbed the last seat in Ginninderra at the expense of Vicki Dunne if he’d been running in an actual party. (hell, the motorists even!) Not merely for the preferences, but also due to the better position on the ballot.

I wish I understood half the stuff I just read… That is what I get for reading it so late at night..
Right now I am just glad that someone with such a silly name like Zed did not win lol

Ohhh how un educated and out of touch am I…

sepi said :

I’m surprised by the depth of feeling against Smyth. I thought he was one of the better Libs and was fairly well liked. He came across quite well on election night with Virginia H. on teh ABC.

Try to keep in mind that a lot of the banter back and forth is probably between Liberals from rival factions.

disenfranchised said :

Sory Phantom….wrong! Very few people will know that Pratt was instrumental in engineering Seselja’s leadership in Dec 2007 when it was clear just how hopeless Bill Stefaniak was. Bill was on borrowed time. He was way out of his depth as leader. It had become obvious that it was a mistake putting him in as leader. Pratt was very close to Brendan but helped usher in Zed ….in the interests of the Party. He knew Brendan could not be put back in. The fact is Smyth was probably Bill’s hardest working MLA. He has also performed well with Zed. The bottom line is Smyth puts in. I’m not pushing his cause – but give credit where it is due. In contrast Dunne was a poor performer last term. She had to be dragged kicking and screaming to actually do anything. At least Pratt and Smyth both had a go. Vicki and Zed were part of Richard’s cheer squad.

Sort of correct, but in truth Zed and Smyth had been getting friendly for a while anyway.
Smyth obviously knew full well that he wasn’t going to be leader again in a hurry so to some degree Zed crossed over as opposed to Pratt breaking ranks with Smyth and Burke.

What’s really funny is that Brendan Smyth is probably a more secure vote for Zed then some of the newer MLA’s.

NickD said :

thetruth said :

If the libs had been unified they would be looking at Government (shows the folly of fighting over the spoils of defeat)

On the other hand, a unified Liberal Party would have still faced the results of the Greens wiping out the independents. In the future the Liberals can’t count on conservative-leaning independents such as Paul Osborne to help them form government, but will have to overcome both the ALP and the Greens.

If the Greens do a competent job (a big if!) there’s no reason why they’ll lose seats next time, and the people who voted for them are more likely to go back to Labor than to the Liberals anyway.

Agree with most of your post, but …. the green vote is actually lower than the traditional combined green democrat (bar 2004 when there was a shift to the majors). I think unity would have held Lib vote (less going to motorist etc)

The Greens have agreed not to support motions of no confidence against labor, it seems. What a pack of sell-outs.

I’m surprised by the depth of feeling against Smyth. I thought he was one of the better Libs and was fairly well liked. He came across quite well on election night with Virginia H. on teh ABC.

Sory Phantom….wrong! Very few people will know that Pratt was instrumental in engineering Seselja’s leadership in Dec 2007 when it was clear just how hopeless Bill Stefaniak was. Bill was on borrowed time. He was way out of his depth as leader. It had become obvious that it was a mistake putting him in as leader. Pratt was very close to Brendan but helped usher in Zed ….in the interests of the Party. He knew Brendan could not be put back in. The fact is Smyth was probably Bill’s hardest working MLA. He has also performed well with Zed. The bottom line is Smyth puts in. I’m not pushing his cause – but give credit where it is due. In contrast Dunne was a poor performer last term. She had to be dragged kicking and screaming to actually do anything. At least Pratt and Smyth both had a go. Vicki and Zed were part of Richard’s cheer squad.

The Greens are the left-wing of the ALP so why would anyone be surprised.

Surprised that the Libs kept Smyth as Deputy as he has been the number one person undermining the Libs over the past few years. Had he not lost his puppets Pratt and Burke Zed would not be leader today.

Lets hope Smyth doesn’t try and undermine the new faces in the Libs Parliamentary team.

thetruth said :

If the libs had been unified they would be looking at Government (shows the folly of fighting over the spoils of defeat)

On the other hand, a unified Liberal Party would have still faced the results of the Greens wiping out the independents. In the future the Liberals can’t count on conservative-leaning independents such as Paul Osborne to help them form government, but will have to overcome both the ALP and the Greens.

If the Greens do a competent job (a big if!) there’s no reason why they’ll lose seats next time, and the people who voted for them are more likely to go back to Labor than to the Liberals anyway.

2.4 Adopting a goal of guaranteed bus frequency of 30 minutes

is this a money back or ride for free guarantee and who is paying for it

disenfranchised said :

Thanks “The Truth”. Disagree. Your comments don’t stack up.

Yes it entirely stacks up:

In Molonglo the swing against libs was only 0.8% and Mulcahy had over 2% of the vote;

In Ginninderra the whole swing can be attributed to the Stefaniak purchase; and

The electorate smacked Smyth.

The big 3 for the infighting where Mulcahy, Stefaniak and Smyth in the eyes of the electorate. If the libs had been unified they would be looking at Government (shows the folly of fighting over the spoils of defeat)

“It would only take the loss of one more Liberal seat to the Greens for the Liberals and Greens to have equal numbers in the Assembly…”

Liberals haven’t been able to go a full Assembly without kicking out one of their own MLAs in around a decade. It’ll be interesting to see if they can all play nice for four years now that the ongoing future of their party as the government-in-the-wings is at stake.

This four years will be a real test for the maturity and competence of our parliamentarians; the Green factor could lead to a genuinely consultative and accountable government, but if the new MLAs aren’t up to snuff it could just as easily be four years of uncertainty, bureaucracy, and terrible, terrible eco-fuzzy legislation. Here’s hoping that everyone concerned remembers that the stable and practical governance of the ACT comes first, and political experimentation and ideology comes second.

disenfranchised said :

What else could the Greens do? Anyone with a scintilla of knowledge about the Liberals knows that the dominant right wing just can’t suffer the Greens. That Zed was willing to try and buy his way into power was demeaning and showed desperation. The Liberals received just under a 4% swing against them. They should have done better. They only garnered around 30% of first preferences. This was their best chance for years and it didn’t work, and this was at a time when Stanhope and his team were on the nose. Will they now take stock? Their credo is built around rewarding success. That being the case someone explain to me again how Seselja has done such a great job? Smyth did much better in 2004. That is a fact. If they have any sense at all, change leaders now. Hansen and Smyth are their best performers on their feet. Seselja is very inexperienced. Three quarters into his first term he became leader. Sorry, but a very short stint as a government lawyer doesn’t add up to much work experience. Stick with Seselja and the Liberals will lose in 2012. He is too right wing for many small l liberal thinking people. Taking the Moonies trip to Korea was silly and showed a lack of judgement. His association with Clarke in NSW is a worry. His close relationship in his first term with Dunne and Mulcahy shows where his head is at. The Liberal party is now run by right wing christian pro-lifers. Unfortunately they are now akin to a European Christian Democrat party. Liberalism in their ranks is quashed. They are bordering on irrelevance. I think that is a huge pity as we need a strong Opposition reflecting the strong small l liberal outlook of the Canberra community. Do they understand that?

I haven’t seen so much BS written since some of the ludicrous claims people came up with during the election campiaign.

NickD said :

Do the Liberals even have a future as the main opposition party in Canberra? In an election where the government was on the nose, Canberra voters moved further to the left rather than to the right. It would only take the loss of one more Liberal seat to the Greens for the Liberals and Greens to have equal numbers in the Assembly…

In a word, yes. The nature of the voting system sees unnatural swings in elections and in the return to equilibrium the Geens will more than likely lose about 2 of their seats at the next election. IF the Liberals can keep it togther for the next few years, people will learn that their vote for the greens wasn’t actually a vote for change and was more misguided stupidity. Given that stanhope is also unlikely to survive a full term the likelyhood of a change in government will increase.

As for the agreement terms for the formation of a Labor government while there are some decent points there are a number of which there already stink of Green policies that have no thought put into as to the cost of the taxpayer and to the government and about the very little benefit they will provide. It alson wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of desperately needed road infrastucture will not be built now.

Do the Liberals even have a future as the main opposition party in Canberra? In an election where the government was on the nose, Canberra voters moved further to the left rather than to the right. It would only take the loss of one more Liberal seat to the Greens for the Liberals and Greens to have equal numbers in the Assembly…

I’m pleased about the library, bus timetable, Civic shopfront and data centre points, and I also think better scrutiny of the Bunnings factor (7.1) is a good idea.

3.11 Introduction of Triple Bottom Line annual reporting to be required through the Chief Minister’s Annual Report Directions.

And the ‘green’ consultants rejoiced!!

Thanks “The Truth”. Disagree. Your comments don’t stack up. Dunne failed to register with the voters. Hers was a very poor result. Is she part of your trio you mention (or is it as I suspect that you are sheeting it home to Burke, Pratt, & Mulcahy)? Burke has always struggled to get over the line. Same with Pratt last time. Doszpot went close last time to beating Pratt. He got him this time on his third attempt to be an MLA! Mulcahy was certainly rejected by the electorate. Kent, who was President of the Liberal Party for 7 years, got his comeuppance. Liberals did not support him in Molonglo. I suspect he – like Dunne – does not feature in your analysis. So there is more than a trio as such. Finally, the fact that Smyth was no longer leader may partly explain his fall in support from 2004 (still a very good result in 2008, just short of a quota). Added to that, the Liberal campaign was built solely around the new boy, Seselja. To suggest the 2008 result was somehow fine or needs to be seen in some context masks important trends. The plain fact is the Libs only got 30% of first preference votes (less than 2004); they fell back to 6 seats (they had 7 in 2004); and they registered an across the board swing of just under 4% from the 2004 result. QED. I imagine a few people on the Liberal side will be rewriting history to preserve their jobs and their credibility. They need to analyse this result and deal with it now. 2011-12 will be too late. Labor went through a number of very ordinary leaders before Stanhope delivered them government.

2.1 Increase recurrent funding for cycling infrastructure to $3.6 million per annum from 2009-10, and provide $2.5 million to address the maintenance backlog and implementation of signage on the cycling network.

How ironic, this is far less than the AMP would have spent on cycling infrastructure, as their stated poicy was to replace onroar facilities with offroad facililites.

Oh, did they mean “dirt, grass, rubble, hedges, floodways, broken” when they said “off-road”?…. ahhhhh I wasted my vote!!!!!!

And those damned oldies will still be able to drive.

The only good thing about a Labour/Green coalition is that when they start selling subdised marijuana in school canteens there won’t be any schools left. (umm, that’s sarcasm).

I tthink the greens were right in not having ministers, it means they focus on keeping the govt to account and it lets the govt get on with the job of governing. (that’s not sarcasm, but feel to free to read it that way)

disenfranchised said :

What else could the Greens do? Anyone with a scintilla of knowledge about the Liberals knows that the dominant right wing just can’t suffer the Greens. That Zed was willing to try and buy his way into power was demeaning and showed desperation. The Liberals received just under a 4% swing against them. They should have done better. They only garnered around 30% of first preferences. This was their best chance for years and it didn’t work, and this was at a time when Stanhope and his team were on the nose. Will they now take stock? Their credo is built around rewarding success. That being the case someone explain to me again how Seselja has done such a great job? Smyth did much better in 2004. That is a fact. If they have any sense at all, change leaders now. Hansen and Smyth are their best performers on their feet. Seselja is very inexperienced. Three quarters into his first term he became leader. Sorry, but a very short stint as a government lawyer doesn’t add up to much work experience. Stick with Seselja and the Liberals will lose in 2012. He is too right wing for many small l liberal thinking people. Taking the Moonies trip to Korea was silly and showed a lack of judgement. His association with Clarke in NSW is a worry. His close relationship in his first term with Dunne and Mulcahy shows where his head is at. The Liberal party is now run by right wing christian pro-lifers. Unfortunately they are now akin to a European Christian Democrat party. Liberalism in their ranks is quashed. They are bordering on irrelevance. I think that is a huge pity as we need a strong Opposition reflecting the strong small l liberal outlook of the Canberra community. Do they understand that?

I think the Lib vote needs to put in a bit of realistic context:

The 2004 result was very unusual for the ACT – there was a swing from minors to majors (the dem vote went to ALP and the Osbourne vote went to the Libs). This resulted in the ACT’s first majority government. So there was some enviable swing back to occur;

The entire swing in ginninderra can be more than accounted for by the removal of Stefaniak 16 days out from the end of the Government term;

The 0.8% swing in Molonglo can be more than accounted for by Mulcahy; and

And the entire Brindabella result was due to a swing against Smyth.

At the end of the day the Trio at the centre of the Lib disunity were punished by the electorate and those that account for the future were rewarded.

canberra towie said :

Well Canberra is in trouble now !!!

Makes moving to NSW look even more attractive !!

The levels of ineptitude and incompetence that the NSW ALP has shown would be a tall ask to get the ACT to achieve.

Hate to break it to the cycling infrastructure haters but my reading of the money the Greens wanted for such ($3.6m pa + $2.5m for existing maintenance) is hardly a large amount and a not exactly anywhere near the $ spend on roads and other infrastructure for motorists.

2.6 Removal of Monash Drive (planned road over Mt Ainslie Mt Majura) – YAY>

Although why are they ‘working for’ this, and not just doing it straight away?

What else could the Greens do? Anyone with a scintilla of knowledge about the Liberals knows that the dominant right wing just can’t suffer the Greens. That Zed was willing to try and buy his way into power was demeaning and showed desperation. The Liberals received just under a 4% swing against them. They should have done better. They only garnered around 30% of first preferences. This was their best chance for years and it didn’t work, and this was at a time when Stanhope and his team were on the nose. Will they now take stock? Their credo is built around rewarding success. That being the case someone explain to me again how Seselja has done such a great job? Smyth did much better in 2004. That is a fact. If they have any sense at all, change leaders now. Hansen and Smyth are their best performers on their feet. Seselja is very inexperienced. Three quarters into his first term he became leader. Sorry, but a very short stint as a government lawyer doesn’t add up to much work experience. Stick with Seselja and the Liberals will lose in 2012. He is too right wing for many small l liberal thinking people. Taking the Moonies trip to Korea was silly and showed a lack of judgement. His association with Clarke in NSW is a worry. His close relationship in his first term with Dunne and Mulcahy shows where his head is at. The Liberal party is now run by right wing christian pro-lifers. Unfortunately they are now akin to a European Christian Democrat party. Liberalism in their ranks is quashed. They are bordering on irrelevance. I think that is a huge pity as we need a strong Opposition reflecting the strong small l liberal outlook of the Canberra community. Do they understand that?

Well, der! Hippies jumping into bed with Labor – who’d have thunk it!

Look forward to more incompetent “government” as labor has to make dumb decisions even dumber to appease the watermelons.

No doubt a priority will be to extend the bike lane up Hindmarsh past the hospital – the one that stops all of a sudden. Such heavy cycle traffic.

And there’ll be a plan to make everyone pay to change the weather.

Interesting times ahead (and costly).

Well Canberra is in trouble now !!!

Makes moving to NSW look even more attractive !!

Neighborhood planning was big under Simon Corbell. Residents of each suburb had to fill out a questionnaire about what they liked about their suburb and list 5 highlights (quiet/parks/birdlife etc).

There were also leaders of each suburb or area.

It all seemed to be good, then suddenly Simon introduced the A2 scheme, where by any part of any block within 100m of shops or a main road would be developed. This meant 80% of Downer could be developed, despite the neighborhood plan being all about greenspace and gardens as a highlight.

Then things got worse, and Simon brought in some other kind of neighborhood group altogether (Northside community council etc I think) and suddenly disbanded the original groups. Only noone told ACTPLA – I believe they sent letters to the original presidents of the suburb planning groups for years after, and called that ‘consultation’.

I lost interest after putting some effort into the original process, which was then canned without notice. It will be good if some of that work is resurrected and used for somethign useful.

Well it looks like they got their pound of flesh.

Plastic bag levy here we come! (on a trial basis)

“What does “5.2 Immediately reinstating the 2001-04 Neighbourhood Planning process and integrate the resulting Master plans into the Territory Plan.” mean?”

I believe this would translate under the new 2008 Territory Plan into undertaking Precinct Codes for a number of localities around ACT (note – not just Canberra). One of the things I raised as a concern when I was on the Territory Plan Reference Panel was the shear number of exceptions to the rules scattered through every part of the plan.

Many of the exceptions protect specific areas from adverse developments that would be allowed elsewhere in the Territory, but may not be appropriate for that site. Or conversely they allow for something that is already in place. In a lot of cases, the exceptions were translations from previous local plans that were swallowed up by the new plan structure. Why is it a problem? Mainly because it makes the Territory Plan somewhat complicated and unwieldy. Partly also because some communities don’t believe that the translation captured the full intent of their local plans.

I pointed out that when we prepared the new plan for Maroochy, that every single area in the shire was covered by a precinct plan rather than broad-brush zones, so that the aspirations of each local community were captured. The precinct plans contained what amounted to “vision statements” accompanied by “performance standards” rather than “prescriptive criteria”.

ACTPLA committed to a goal of eventually removing all of these exceptions to the rule via a process of drafting precinct codes to cover each of the areas concerned. The precinct codes then “trump” the Development Codes (zones to use a familiar term).

So back OT, I presume this would mean that the Greens have gained a formal commitment to lock in this approach. And, I would hope, some commensurate commitment to adequately resource ACTPLA to fast-track many of the more pressing Precinct Codes. Each will require considerable local area consultation if they are to have ‘ownership’ by the locals.

Deano said :

Pommy bastard said :

A bad day for the Capital. The greens should have adopted a more powerful role by remaining neutral, allowing the Labour party to rule, but balancing out the labour power, and shooting down any excess.

Um, isn’t that what they are doing by remaining on the crossbench? Well, remaining neutral but also taking no responsibility.

Yes it is. My apologies to all.

Note to self; Read first, then think, then post.

Gosh, some of you have funny ideas about what “responsibility” actually means.

Imagine for a moment, that YOU are are an independent sitting on the cross benches. Now, you are presented with a piece of legislation you cannot support, but it’s attached to a budget bill.

What do you do now?

Now, I have no idea what you are going to do, but if you cannot feel the heavy weight of RESPONSIBILITY (to your voters, to the government, to the population generally) descending on your shoulders, your imagination is not working properly.

Anyone else go to Busting Out last night? Fabulous antidote!

Well, to all my poker playing friends all I can say is that it’s gonna be a long 4 years…

It’s a Chopper!

What does “5.2 Immediately reinstating the 2001-04 Neighbourhood Planning process and integrate the resulting Master plans into the Territory Plan.” mean?

I only moved up here last year… Is this good or bad? I know planning is fubar’d now, but what was it like under that regime?

Having a look at this agreement – it looks more like a pre-nup more than anything else…

They can’t support a no-confidence motion in the assembly unless it constitutes ‘gross negligence’. However, this agreement needs to be renewed every 4 months, so there’s some leverage there for the Greens. The assembly will be staying up late as well – Appendix 1 3.3 says on each sitting week there will be one day where it runs until 9-30 PM.
5.4 will be good for journos – Removal of Conclusive Certificates for FOI agreements. Appendix 2 1.4 – If I’m doing my maths correctly, it means the ACT Government will have to use 100% renewable energy by 2015 (I assume this is just for the assembly buildings and gov departments) And basically it looks like the ALP will be forced to endorse the majority of the Greens election promises.

However, the aircraft noise issue isn’t as big as I thought it would be, and nothing specific about the Wanniassa medical centre.

8.2 Establish a free legal service for homeless people by no later than 1 July 2010

Homeless in any state in Australia??? Broke into 16 homes for your heroin money??? On the lamb???? Make your way to the ACT….

OR

In legal trouble??? Don’t want the legal bills??? Live in the ACT?? – Leave your family and hit the streets

I also noted the cycleway – next time we have to have a fundraiser for a bit of medical equipment for babies – just remember the greens priority list.

Thanks for posting a link to the document Johnboy.

I just read it and I have to say most of the demands seem pretty good, with these exceptions:

“7) Parliamentary Staffing and Resources”

“…ACT Labor agrees that it shall commit to provide the Greens with staffing
resources for three cross-bench Members and staffing equivalent to 1.5 of a
cross-bench Member for the Greens’ parliamentary convenor.”

A Labor or Liberal backbencher gets around $135,000 staffing allowance.

Dr Foskey got $195,000, in recognition of the fact there was only one of her. Fair enough.

I think the extra .5 Ms Hunter will be getting is also fair enough as she is leader er convenor.

However, now that there are 4 Green MLAs, they are still getting $60,000 more than the other MLAs, totalling almost quarter of a million taxpayer dollars. Why?!

Some other thoughts:

“Appendix 1: Agenda for Parliamentary Reform”

I like words like ‘collaboration’ too. But if every one of the amazing number of demands for increased meetings are met, the assembly will turn a never-ending gabfest. I respect the Greens’ ability to reach every decision by consenus themselves, but I don’t know how well it translates to running a whole Territory.

“3. Work of the Legislative Assembly

3.2 One sitting evening each sitting week, between the hours of 7.30pm-9.30pm, to
provide better opportunities for members of the public to view important Assembly
debates.”

I’m sorry, but I don’t think it’s the time of day that is the reason people don’t come and watch the proceedings….

“3.18 A request for observer status for the Greens at COAG meetings to be made by the
Chief Minister to the Prime Minister.”

This made me chuckle…junket time…don’t forget to carbon offset the free business class tickets!!

“4. Resources of the Assembly
4.1 Ensure that resources for the Assembly Secretariat and the Assembly Library to
facilitate assistance for Members are improved…”

Nice way to get ’em on side! But the Assembly costs way too much as it is. Easy up!

I could go on about the subsequent policy demands for ever, and I won’t, except to say that many of them seem quite expensive and have been given very short implementation timeframes. The problem with producing a 15 page wishlist that doesn’t include one single cut back is that the money has to come from somewhere. If the government fulfills every single demand it seems to me – in the absence of costings – that the territory would be bankrupt in 2 years.

Anyway, enough from me. I’ll leave you with a couple of choice cuts from the the ‘Other’ grab bag on the final page:

“11.2 Reconsider the issue of voting for 16 and 17 year olds, by supporting a Legislative
Assembly Inquiry before the end of 2010 to consider the issue and look at other models
of participatory democracy for young people.

11.6 Phase in the publication of gender impact statements and gender disaggregated data
associated with ACT Government legislation, policies, budget and annual reports by
2010.”

The media release, linked in the original post, has, too, many commas, and has a typo, in the first line. Not a great start lol!

Man With The Plan said :

Nero will continue to survive future no confidence motions, as the Greens will either blindy side with their Left Wing Socialist Criminal comrades in the Labor Party; or will simply abstain from the vote…

Your ‘Plan’ should be to get in touch with reality.

Nero will continue to survive future no confidence motions, as the Greens will either blindy side with their Left Wing Socialist Criminal comrades in the Labor Party; or will simply abstain from the vote.
I cannot think of or find any example of where any Green has sided with the Liberals when it came time to vote.

666 had it live at 6.20.. wondered what happened to the cricket…

And no.. I don’t work there.

No real surprise. The fact that the entire protest vote, plus some of the conservative vote, went to a party which is to the left of Labor and was always certain to support an ALP government should give the Liberals pause for thought – not that thinking has been their strong point in recent years.

The interesting thing will be how long it takes Stanhope to either step down or be replaced.

The only reason the Greens won’t accept any ministries is so they don’t have to make any hard decisions themselves and end up being directly responsible for anything. All their ideas are just pie in the sky anyway. They can happily sit back now though and pull everyone else’s to pieces instead. They’ve got no bloody guts.

“A vote for the Greens is a vote for Labor” – Never a truer word spoken eh?

yay four more years of the same..

ah well I doubt he will survive the no confidence motion when it comes his way again.

To my mind it’s a real pity. Two Green ministers under Zed would have been great fun.

Yeah, I tend to look more Federal than local in the broader picture.

But my point is that there will always be a place for the third party. Don Chipp gave us that.

But third parties also have a use-by date, maybe it is a youth thing. They tend to be the party that attracts the youth vote. But those “youth” voters only last about fifteen years. Then they are not youth anymore…and the new youth (who are actually youths) will find or create their own party.

Third party politics is a relatively new concept in Australia. It’s an interesting experiment and I am fascinated as to how it will play out over the next few decades.

I am an election junkie.

bigfeet said :

thetruth said :

\all care and no responsibility is the third way in Australian politics

Sounds very much like the Democrats.

If you look at it the 2004 election there was a big swing toward the majors with the first majority Governemnt in the ACT under hare clarke. The combined green / dem (or “third way”) vote was about 12%. In the elections before 2004 the conbined vote was 16% to 18% (if memory serves). Come 2008, the dems don’t exist – and the combined vote is 15% and everyone talks about the rise of the Greens. I think there is an arguement that it is the demise of the Dems (ie the voters effectively “merged the party”)

Huh Pommy?

I’m not a Greens fan by any stretch of the imagination but I admire them for staying cross bench and not grabbing the first Ministerial post offered to them – at this rate I may even end up voting for them next time!

thetruth said :

\all care and no responsibility is the third way in Australian politics

Sounds very much like the Democrats.

Third parties have a shelf life, the Dems reached theirs to be taken over by the Greens. It will be interesting to see what comes next, in 15 years or so.

God I hope it’s not Family First or something like that.

It was the only thing the greens could do….The one thing a green never wants to do is actually govern for EVERYONE they need to solidify their 15% by being able to pander to them all care and no responsibility is the third way in Australian politics

Pommy bastard said :

A bad day for the Capital. The greens should have adopted a more powerful role by remaining neutral, allowing the Labour party to rule, but balancing out the labour power, and shooting down any excess.

I’m not sure how they could be more neutral. They haven’t accepted any ministries as far as I can tell so they are not in debt to the Labor Party.

And next Wednesday the LA calls a vote for the Chief Minister. They have to vote for someone. And the way I understand it the Chief Minister vote must be a 50% + 1, not a simple majority. So if they stuck with voting for Meredith, Libs voted for Zed, and Labor voted for Sonic, then no-one has the majority.

Happy to be corrected if I am wrong in that.

Pommy bastard said :

A bad day for the Capital. The greens should have adopted a more powerful role by remaining neutral, allowing the Labour party to rule, but balancing out the labour power, and shooting down any excess.

Um, isn’t that what they are doing by remaining on the crossbench? Well, remaining neutral but also taking no responsibility.

Before anyone comments, I know… roughshod, not roughshot.

A bad day for the Capital. The greens should have adopted a more powerful role by remaining neutral, allowing the Labour party to rule, but balancing out the labour power, and shooting down any excess.

Ok, its being announced on a few news websites now.

Whilst I am not a big Stanhope fan I think the Greens have probably made the correct call.

By remaining out of any ministry, with true cross-bench voting power, I think that they will be able to have more of an influence than if they took one (or two) ministries.

I just wonder how long before Stanhope’s ruling style sees him trying to ride roughshot over the Greens and we see a no-confidence vote called.

Very inconsiderate and unprofessional beginning, Greens, releasing this news so late in the day. The ABC TV News had to run the item third.

It was on Win tonight.

So has there been a formal announcement yet? Its 1900hrs and I can’t find anything on any news sites

As ‘significant’ as Meredith repeatedly insists the agreement is, what precisely did the Greens squeeze out of the stanhope government apart from ministerial briefings / new committee structure?

Zed is just another way of saying Zero.

Well this is awesome news for the ACT.

hehehe

jenny green said :

Zed’s dead, baby. Zed’s dead.

Damn you! I rushed to my laptop solely to use that line on Riotact!

Zed’s dead, baby. Zed’s dead.

Ya know some people in this town will be Surprised.

I’m not really surprised, whatsup. That was sarcasm.

Surprised ? That they want to get into bed with Stanhope or they were up late agonising over the decision.

I’m surprised.