Senate Estimates has become nasty, says former APS boss

Former Social Service Department boss Ray Griggs has delivered a stinging rebuke to politicians aiming to score media grabs and headlines at the expense of public servants – show some respect.

In a valedictory speech, delivered at the National Press Club on Wednesday evening (19 February), Mr Griggs, who retired from the Australian Public Service at the end of last year, said Senate Estimates and other parliamentary committee hearings had gotten out of control in recent times.

The grandstanding, he suggested, is taking its toll on senior public servants required to front the committees and be grilled by senators and MPs.

“There is an enormous power imbalance when we appear before a parliamentary committee,” he said.

“Most parliamentarians understand this and respect it.

“Many acknowledge the performative side of estimates, in particular.

“But in the last few years it has become increasingly personal, belittling and nasty.”

His rebuke was particularly directed at estimates hearings where some senators adopt a combative approach to the bureaucrats appearing, in the hope of a ‘gotcha’ moment or two they can exploit through the media.

Highly regarded across the public service and political spectrums, Mr Griggs has appeared before parliamentary inquiries many times and has even been grilled over personal circumstances.

He has previously served as the Chief of Navy and Vice Chief of the Australian Defence Force.

He has also had to field questions over Robodebt, given his task of being sent into the department’s top job to clean up the mess following the tragedy of the illegal scheme and the fallout of the royal commission into it.

“Neither I nor my colleagues shrink from robust discussion or uncomfortable scrutiny,” Mr Griggs said.

“We all understand, embrace and value the oversight role of the parliament and of parliamentary committees.

“I, however, hold statutory responsibilities for the safety and wellbeing of my staff in workplace settings.

“So, I do again ask that these hearings are conducted in an appropriate manner …

“What’s our biggest growth area in compensation? It’s in psychological – and people are getting destroyed at estimates. Really damaged.”

On the topic of Robodebt, the former secretary suggested the royal commission did not dig deep enough into the culture of the public service that allowed the scheme to be rolled out in such a ruthless manner.

Accountability in the public sector remains largely unchanged.

“We all know this [Robodebt] was a huge systemic failure in public administration,” he said.

“It was overwhelmingly a cultural failing.

“At its core, in Robodebt there was a lack of curiosity by many.

“A lack of people willing to contest the ideas being floated and the direction they were given.

“A lack of collaboration among key agencies and, above all, a lack of courage at critical junctures to call out what’s happened.”

The subsequent APS Code of Conduct investigations sparked by the royal commission hasn’t worked either, Mr Griggs said.

The whole code of conduct process is flawed.

“It doesn’t work for the public and, frankly, should give some assurance of action being taken,” he said.

“It doesn’t work for the service and the levels of resources that have to be applied and the time taken.

“It most certainly doesn’t work for the individuals concerned, particularly for their psychosocial wellbeing through these protracted processes.”

An investigation by the Australian Public Service Commission last year found former department secretaries Kathryn Campbell and Renee Leon to have breached the Public Service Code of Conduct in their handling of Robodebt.

Mr Griggs was awarded the Conspicuous Service Cross in 1997, a Commendation for Distinguished Service in 2003 for his work in the Persian Gulf, and was appointed a Member of the Order of Australia in 2009, then elevated to an Officer of the Order of Australia in the 2012 Queen’s Birthday Honours list.

That honour was for “Distinguished service to the Australian Defence Force as Deputy Head of Strategic Reform and Governance, Deputy Chief of Joint Operations, and Chief of the Royal Australian Navy”.

Scott Morrison appointed Griggs as Social Services Secretary in 2021 while the Coalition was still in government, and he survived the shakeup of top public service positions following the election of Anthony Albanese’s Labor Government.

On assuming the role, Mr Griggs implemented vast reforms in the department. He introduced the mantra of what he termed the Four Cs – Curiosity, Collaboration, Contestability and Courage – that he said the agency had previously lacked.

Michael Lye was appointed Secretary of the Department of Social Services in December last year following Mr Grigg’s retirement.