Archbishop Mark Coleridge to move to Brisbane

HenryBG said :

p1 said :

My point, such as it was, is that every minute spent praying is a minute of potential productivity wasted. I mentioned nothing about schools.

Well, you could say the same thing about Yoga, playing football, or watching TV (x1,000,000). and it’s true-ish, I suppose.

I agree with you 100 per cent. What people do for entertainment is never going to contribute to GDP (unless they start mining for fun?).

I see some parallels between your argument of the financial benefit of organised religion to the community and the argument of the pokie industry in NSW.

Ok. Trying to respond and selectively quote using my iPhone is difficult!

That previous comment related to Henry’s final paragraph!

HenryBG said :

a, playing football, or watching TV (x1,000,000). and it’s true-ish, I suppose.
There was a study done (in the USA) on prayer v. health outcomes. Basically, being prayed for tended to delay your recovery.
I’m not aware of any similar study showing that prayer has a negative effect on productivity.

bigfeet said :

bigfeet said :

Even if that religious education promotes hatred, discrimination and bigotry against a section of the community..Gays and women for example?.

It doesn’t.

Here’s a clue: just because people don’t agree with you and don’t share your values does not entitle you to use political correctness to attempt to shut them up. Think about the communist origins of your approach to public debate before trying to label people in future.

So linking it back to the original post about there going to be a new Catholic Archbishop of Canberra. Can you tell me how many women, or openly gay men will be eligible for this highly paid and extremely influential position?

p1 said :

My point, such as it was, is that every minute spent praying is a minute of potential productivity wasted. I mentioned nothing about schools.

Well, you could say the same thing about Yoga, playing football, or watching TV (x1,000,000). and it’s true-ish, I suppose.
There was a study done (in the USA) on prayer v. health outcomes. Basically, being prayed for tended to delay your recovery.
I’m not aware of any similar study showing that prayer has a negative effect on productivity.

knuckles said :

HenryBG said :

Some fringeist ideologues took on the Catholic management, essentially over a single issue that had nothing to do with providing essential services to the community, and the fringeist ideologues lost.
Yet another reason why having diverse ideologies capable of standing up to each other is good for us.

Is that what the bloke who wears a dress and stands at the front of your church told you?
What really happened is very different.
Then again, christians never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Sore loser. You’re in denial.

A new-fangled political ideology that loves political correctness and other communist-inspired methods decided to take on an old-fangled political ideology that’s been around for over 1,000 years and the new-fangled ideology lost.
A majority of Canberrans cheered.

bigfeet said :

Even if that religious education promotes hatred, discrimination and bigotry against a section of the community..Gays and women for example?.

It doesn’t.

Here’s a clue: just because people don’t agree with you and don’t share your values does not entitle you to use political correctness to attempt to shut them up. Think about the communist origins of your approach to public debate before trying to label people in future.

bigfeet said :

…Even if that religious education promotes hatred, discrimination and bigotry against a section of the community..Gays and women for example?…

Yeah, that’s certainly an interesting quandary. Although I’d still defer to the side of supporting freedom of religion and so on that basis would still have to say yes.

I think suggesting the promotion of hatred and bigotry is a little extreme, but by definition I guess you’d be correct to say that. Discrimination, certainly.

I guess that’s just one of the reasons why I’m a non-practicing Catholic.

Holden Caulfield said :

I understand your comment about not wanting religion to have an influence on education, and agree insofar as having any input into a national curriculum, but I think a private school, whatever its persuasion, should be free to complement the curriculum with any religious education it sees fit.

Even if that religious education promotes hatred, discrimination and bigotry against a section of the community..Gays and women for example?

Just to be clear though, to me there is no difference between catholocism, sunni muslim, scientology, zorastrianism, seventh day adventist,voodoo, hinduism, shia, or any other one of these things.

They are all just ‘religion’ to me. They have no relevance to me and personally I believe that they should have no relevance in the modern world. Unfortunately they do.

But like I said, if people want to do things in private, with other consenting adults, and that has no impact on my life, then fine….go for your life (or afterlife).

But really, in the greater scheme of my life it’s not something that I dwell on or even care too much about.

Yeah, shouldn’t criticise a church that spent more money and time trying to sweep the problem of the rampant paedophilia in some parishs and schools under the carpet, than actually doing anything to halt the problem and get rid of the pigs that were commiting these abhorant acts.

As an ex-Catholic, I still don’t know who I hate the most; the paedophiles amongst the clergy, or the gutless popes, cardinals, bishops, priests, brothers and nuns who sat back and pretended they knew nothing of what was happening. Even the current Pope has faced several allegations that he protected paedophiles during his time as a bishop and cardinal.

I always wondered why some priests and brothers seem to disappear almost over night, and were sent up to the islands or off to Africa! And even to this day the Catholic church is still in denial about the issue!

It’s a bit hard to take a church seriously, when they have such a rotten record themselves.

HenryBG said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

knuckles said :

Well the Archbishop recently forced his religious views on the rest of the ACT when he stepped in and halted the sale of Calvary Hospital. The north side of Canberra deserves a real public hospital, with a real emergency department, not the pretend hospital run by the Little Company of Money/Catholic Church, but funded by the tax payer.

I’d suggest taking it up with your elected representatives, who struck a deal with an organisation with clearly stated aims and policy.

Yes.
Some fringeist ideologues took on the Catholic management, essentially over a single issue that had nothing to do with providing essential services to the community, and the fringeist ideologues lost.
Yet another reason why having diverse ideologies capable of standing up to each other is good for us.

Is that what the bloke who wears a dress and stands at the front of your church told you?
What really happened is very different.
Then again, christians never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

HenryBG said :

p1 said :

HenryBG said :

Effectively, the Catholic school system saves the taxpayer just short of 0.2% of GDP, every year.

Ahhh, but the opportunity cost of all those ours spent on your knees in front of a priest means that GDP is much lower then it could be.

Why don’t you prove your point – if you think you have a valid one – by using actual data to compare expectations versus results obtained by the Catholic school system.

As far as I know, they do one mass once per term, with no other time spent “on your knees” than a few minutes per mass.

And as far as I also know, despite a high proportion of low socio-economic enrollees (unlike non-catholic non-government schools, which studiously avoid trying to do any good for the poor and the infirm) their results are not poor.

My point, such as it was, is that every minute spent praying is a minute of potential productivity wasted. I mentioned nothing about schools.

bigfeet said :

…Who’s bashing them? Up until your commment, the only suggestions had been along the lines of “Believe whatever you wan’t….just don’t inflict it on the rest of us”

You are pretty thin skinned if you think that is ‘bashing’ or ‘bigoted’…

Here are the comments made before mine which I believe are indicative of an accepted undertone to unnecessarily criticise the Catholic church:

Mr Evil said :

As long as we don’t get a paedophile in the new job, then I don’t really care who gets the nod.

Pork Hunt said :

Who cares as long as the replacement isn’t a paedofile…

bigfeet said :

LSWCHP said :

Speaking entirely for myself, rather than as a representative of the ACT League of Atheists or anything like that, I really don’t give a rats as long as whoever it is stays well away from me and my family.

I agree.

I subscribe to the “Religions are like Penises” theory.

I’m happy for you if you have got one, or found one, that gives you pleasure. Just don’t ever take it out in public and don’t try to jam it down my throat.

It’s true, in isolation, they may not be at the extreme end of bigotry, but to quote Denis Denuto “it’s the vibe”, not just in this thread, but in general.

Nobody has provided any anecdotes of Coleridge jamming his beliefs down anyone’s throats. So why the need to lob in and say (I’m paraphrasing of course), “You suck why don’t you just piss off.”

If one believes Christianity is irrational due to being “make believe” (another common theme) why the need to come in with school yard jibes and jam your own beliefs down a Christian’s throat?

It’s just a wee bit hypocritical don’t you think?

Moreover, we live in a society that should be applauded for supporting freedom of religion. Yet people often say stuff like “don’t ever take it [your religion] out in public!”

Is that serious?

Sure, I reckon having people accost you in the street with brochures etc is not really on, but I can’t recall Catholics (as one specific example) doing that. Signage displayed in church grounds, is that such a burden on the day to day lives of person who doesn’t share its sentiments?

Tolerance.

Cyclists, motorists, Catholics, the indigenous, whatever, surely it’s not too much to ask to for all of us to offer a little more tolerance to an individual or group we may not necessarily agree with?

So, in a topic that is informing of the change of the Archbishop in the local Catholic diocese is it really necessary for people to crack paedo gags and contradict themselves by jamming their own atheist beliefs down reader’s throats?

I don’t think so.

In the interests of disclosure I’m a non-practicing Catholic, but I won’t lose any sleep over the criticism the church gets, often it is well and truly justified.

I guess being raised as a Catholic makes me more aware of criticisms targeted towards the church, which then makes me reflect and ask would these criticisms or “jokes” be accepted against another religion or minority group? Sometimes, yes. Often times, no.

I agree totally that no religion should have any influence on government.

I understand your comment about not wanting religion to have an influence on education, and agree insofar as having any input into a national curriculum, but I think a private school, whatever its persuasion, should be free to complement the curriculum with any religious education it sees fit.

I also disagree that private beliefs should not be aired in public. If you made that comment without a religious context I’m sure you’d agree it would be an absurd position it would be to take. Possibly this is a discussion over semantics, and I’m sure I’d agree with you in some contexts, but hopefully you can see where I’m coming from too.

Holden Caulfield said :

Catholic/Christian-bashing, the last, apparently, publicly acceptable bastion of the bigot.

Who’s bashing them? Up until your commment, the only suggestions had been along the lines of “Believe whatever you wan’t….just don’t inflict it on the rest of us”

You are pretty thin skinned if you think that is ‘bashing’ or ‘bigoted’.

And FYI I treat all religions the same way…they are private beliefts which should not be aired in public and should have no influence whatsoever on government, education or anything else.

p1 said :

HenryBG said :

Effectively, the Catholic school system saves the taxpayer just short of 0.2% of GDP, every year.

Ahhh, but the opportunity cost of all those ours spent on your knees in front of a priest means that GDP is much lower then it could be.

Why don’t you prove your point – if you think you have a valid one – by using actual data to compare expectations versus results obtained by the Catholic school system.

As far as I know, they do one mass once per term, with no other time spent “on your knees” than a few minutes per mass.

And as far as I also know, despite a high proportion of low socio-economic enrollees (unlike non-catholic non-government schools, which studiously avoid trying to do any good for the poor and the infirm) their results are not poor.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

knuckles said :

Well the Archbishop recently forced his religious views on the rest of the ACT when he stepped in and halted the sale of Calvary Hospital. The north side of Canberra deserves a real public hospital, with a real emergency department, not the pretend hospital run by the Little Company of Money/Catholic Church, but funded by the tax payer.

I’d suggest taking it up with your elected representatives, who struck a deal with an organisation with clearly stated aims and policy.

Yes.
Some fringeist ideologues took on the Catholic management, essentially over a single issue that had nothing to do with providing essential services to the community, and the fringeist ideologues lost.
Yet another reason why having diverse ideologies capable of standing up to each other is good for us.

HenryBG said :

Effectively, the Catholic school system saves the taxpayer just short of 0.2% of GDP, every year.

Ahhh, but the opportunity cost of all those ours spent on your knees in front of a priest means that GDP is much lower then it could be.

johnboy said :

Considering what Catholics have done to non-catholics through the ages they can shut the hell up and take it.

+1. Huzzah.

knuckles said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Eppo said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Holden Caulfield said :

Catholic/Christian-bashing, the last, apparently, publicly acceptable bastion of the bigot.

It’s quite sad, actually. Also sad that we allow it here.

It only occurs because catholics/christians can’t keep to themselves. Want a religion? Fine, believe in whatever the hell you want. But they can’t just do that, can they? They have to attempt to interfere and influence the lives of people who have no time for their ridiculous fairy tales. Hence the bashing.

If the church saves 0.2% of GDP each year, that’s great. But I do wonder how much they’d contribute if we taxed them, instead of all their investments and activities hiding behind that “but we’re a charity” wall.

When was the last time some Catholics knocked on your door and hassled you?
.

Well the Archbishop recently forced his religious views on the rest of the ACT when he stepped in and halted the sale of Calvary Hospital. The north side of Canberra deserves a real public hospital, with a real emergency department, not the pretend hospital run by the Little Company of Money/Catholic Church, but funded by the tax payer.

I’d suggest taking it up with your elected representatives, who struck a deal with an organisation with clearly stated aims and policy.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Eppo said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Holden Caulfield said :

Catholic/Christian-bashing, the last, apparently, publicly acceptable bastion of the bigot.

It’s quite sad, actually. Also sad that we allow it here.

It only occurs because catholics/christians can’t keep to themselves. Want a religion? Fine, believe in whatever the hell you want. But they can’t just do that, can they? They have to attempt to interfere and influence the lives of people who have no time for their ridiculous fairy tales. Hence the bashing.

If the church saves 0.2% of GDP each year, that’s great. But I do wonder how much they’d contribute if we taxed them, instead of all their investments and activities hiding behind that “but we’re a charity” wall.

When was the last time some Catholics knocked on your door and hassled you?
.

Well the Archbishop recently forced his religious views on the rest of the ACT when he stepped in and halted the sale of Calvary Hospital. The north side of Canberra deserves a real public hospital, with a real emergency department, not the pretend hospital run by the Little Company of Money/Catholic Church, but funded by the tax payer.

Given Cardinal Pell was transferred from Melbourne to Sydney as The Vatican’s revenge on the people of Sydney for embracing the gay community I wouldn’t be surprised if he was transferred to our fair city. We are just as much a Sodom of the South as the Harbour City, and we have gay civil unions as well.

Eppo said :

If the church saves 0.2% of GDP each year, that’s great. But I do wonder how much they’d contribute if we taxed them, instead of all their investments and activities hiding behind that “but we’re a charity” wall.

But they *are* a charity. Just happen to be a big one. Tall poppy.

And if the Education Revolution building grants are indicative, they get 2.5x better bang for their buck than the Commonwealth government is capable of getting, meaning that taxing them would be a net drain on our community resources.

Eppo said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Holden Caulfield said :

Catholic/Christian-bashing, the last, apparently, publicly acceptable bastion of the bigot.

It’s quite sad, actually. Also sad that we allow it here.

It only occurs because catholics/christians can’t keep to themselves. Want a religion? Fine, believe in whatever the hell you want. But they can’t just do that, can they? They have to attempt to interfere and influence the lives of people who have no time for their ridiculous fairy tales. Hence the bashing.

If the church saves 0.2% of GDP each year, that’s great. But I do wonder how much they’d contribute if we taxed them, instead of all their investments and activities hiding behind that “but we’re a charity” wall.

When was the last time some Catholics knocked on your door and hassled you?

As for for the taxation issue, we should treat religious organisations similarly to individuals. Money spent on activities that are directly charitable could be deducted from income received, and tax paid on the difference.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Holden Caulfield said :

Catholic/Christian-bashing, the last, apparently, publicly acceptable bastion of the bigot.

It’s quite sad, actually. Also sad that we allow it here.

It only occurs because catholics/christians can’t keep to themselves. Want a religion? Fine, believe in whatever the hell you want. But they can’t just do that, can they? They have to attempt to interfere and influence the lives of people who have no time for their ridiculous fairy tales. Hence the bashing.

If the church saves 0.2% of GDP each year, that’s great. But I do wonder how much they’d contribute if we taxed them, instead of all their investments and activities hiding behind that “but we’re a charity” wall.

Holden Caulfield said :

Catholic/Christian-bashing, the last, apparently, publicly acceptable bastion of the bigot.

It’s quite sad, actually. Also sad that we allow it here.

Holden Caulfield said :

Catholic/Christian-bashing, the last, apparently, publicly acceptable bastion of the bigot.

It’s a deeply-ingrained Reaction among even escapees from (let alone adherents to) other Western Christian sects.
Among the Orthodox mob, it’s a Reaction to 1204AD. Still.

Catholic/Christian-bashing, the last, apparently, publicly acceptable bastion of the bigot.

bigfeet said :

LSWCHP said :

Speaking entirely for myself, rather than as a representative of the ACT League of Atheists or anything like that, I really don’t give a rats as long as whoever it is stays well away from me and my family.

I agree.

I subscribe to the “Religions are like Penises” theory.

I’m happy for you if you have got one, or found one, that gives you pleasure. Just don’t ever take it out in public and don’t try to jam it down my throat.

The fact is, your public life is affected by an enormous organisation like this one.

For example, there is no larger single provider of charity anywhere in the world than the Catholic Church. If that charity were not being provided, then the taxpayer would have to foot the bill for it, OR, foot the bill for the law & order alternative to providing charity.

Or, you can look at the recent Gonski report and see that 23% of schooling is provided by the Catholic sector, and that 23% is provided at a cost to the government that is 20% LESS, per student, than is provided per student in the public system.

Effectively, the Catholic school system saves the taxpayer just short of 0.2% of GDP, every year.

You can also look at the “Education Revolution” grants, where Catholic schools got about 250% more building for their buck than the public sector schools did.

The Cathollic church’s participation in public policy debates also provides a useful foil to the ivory-towered post-modernist policy-wonks that infest public life with their idiotic nonsense and apologism for genocidal military regimes they like (ie, Indonesia).

LSWCHP said :

Speaking entirely for myself, rather than as a representative of the ACT League of Atheists or anything like that, I really don’t give a rats as long as whoever it is stays well away from me and my family.

I agree.

I subscribe to the “Religions are like Penises” theory.

I’m happy for you if you have got one, or found one, that gives you pleasure. Just don’t ever take it out in public and don’t try to jam it down my throat.

Should we read anything into the fact this announcement that’s he’s moving to Sunny Queensland comes right before the colder months in Canberra?

nanzan said :

housebound said :

Does that mean the development of St Patrick’s is now off the table?

I don’t know how it will affect things regarding Saint Patrick’s Church at Braddon…but it has certainly been a thorn in the side of the archbishop…but these sort of thorns are to be found everywhere in every diocese.

(It’s interesting that this comes at the time when the sudden announcement regarding the change in location for the new Catholic secondary school in Gungahlin has been made. The school, John Paul College, was to built in Throsby, but is now to be built in Nicholls…the precise location of which has not been revealed, but apparently somewhere adjacent to Holy Spirit Primary School.)

Apparently the school is supposed to be built on block 20 section 73, between near were the government were considering for the new hospital (not!) and where the monks were supposed to be building their Buddist temple, which is now going to be relocated to another location, even though i looks like they already have a fence up for it..

Speaking entirely for myself, rather than as a representative of the ACT League of Atheists or anything like that, I really don’t give a rats as long as whoever it is stays well away from me and my family.

Who cares as long as the replacement isn’t a paedofile…

HenryBG said :

nanzan said :

…., I have heard, just as a rumour, that Fr John Woods has been suggested.

I *don’t* think so.

Canberra will be looking for a bishop who has his finger on the pulse of what the *adults* in the ACT are getting up to.

I don’t think I understand this post….

Bad Seed said :

I’d be surprised if they appoint anyone quickly given there are other dioceses in Australia eg Melbourne that have been without heads for a very long time. Have heard a few rumours today too but I suspect they are just wild speculation. I do know AB Mark was booked to do Bad Seedling’s Confirmation in June so suspect there will be a few juggling in the office to rearrange all those atm.

Any chance it might be Bishop Pat Power? He is the auxiliary bishop after all. If it was the people who elected their bishops I reckon Bishop Pat would get the job hands down.

As long as we don’t get a paedophile in the new job, then I don’t really care who gets the nod.

I’d be surprised if they appoint anyone quickly given there are other dioceses in Australia eg Melbourne that have been without heads for a very long time. Have heard a few rumours today too but I suspect they are just wild speculation. I do know AB Mark was booked to do Bad Seedling’s Confirmation in June so suspect there will be a few juggling in the office to rearrange all those atm.

nanzan said :

…., I have heard, just as a rumour, that Fr John Woods has been suggested.

I *don’t* think so.

Canberra will be looking for a bishop who has his finger on the pulse of what the *adults* in the ACT are getting up to.

housebound said :

Does that mean the development of St Patrick’s is now off the table?

I don’t know how it will affect things regarding Saint Patrick’s Church at Braddon…but it has certainly been a thorn in the side of the archbishop…but these sort of thorns are to be found everywhere in every diocese.

(It’s interesting that this comes at the time when the sudden announcement regarding the change in location for the new Catholic secondary school in Gungahlin has been made. The school, John Paul College, was to built in Throsby, but is now to be built in Nicholls…the precise location of which has not been revealed, but apparently somewhere adjacent to Holy Spirit Primary School.)

Alan Shore said :

Any word on his replacement? I heard some scuttlebutt about Eugene Hurley, but that may just have been wishful thinking.

I hadn’t heard that but that is an interesting idea.

Wouldn’t it be nice, though, if the next bishop actually came from within the archdiocese, that is to say, a priest already working here. In that vein, I have heard, just as a rumour, that Fr John Woods has been suggested.

Any word on his replacement? I heard some scuttlebutt about Eugene Hurley, but that may just have been wishful thinking.

Well, if you limit the number of potential bishops by 50%, this sort of thing is going to happen.

Does that mean the development of St Patrick’s is now off the table?