7 August 2024

Basement EV fires - unpacking the real risk to Canberra's apartment owners

| Katrina Condie
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Electric vehicle charging

Should EV chargers be permitted in basement carparks of residential buildings? Photo: James Coleman.

One of Canberra’s leading facilities managers believes there is a lot of misinformation surrounding electric vehicle fire risks that is creating headwinds for the installation of EV infrastructure in apartment building basements.

Civium Facilities Management director Alex Boundy said, since an EV lithium-ion battery exploded at Sydney Airport in September 2023, there had been a lot of concerns raised by apartment owners in strata complexes, with some requesting no EV access to their basement carparks.

“There’s some anti-EV residents within owners’ corporations that are driving this bogus fire-risk campaign,” he said.

“They’re against using their funds for site-wide charging, so using fear to support their cause. It’s a very biased situation.”

Mr Boundy said, while some body corporates had placed a blanket ban on EV chargers, others had “recognised that EVs are part of the community” and were allowing owners to charge their cars.

He said there were “still a lot of myths and misconceptions” around EVs and the potential for battery fires in basement carparks.

“There isn’t enough data out there to support what’s being said. It’s still far too early for these claims to be anything other than anecdotal,” Mr Boundy explained.

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“Research indicates that e-scooters and e-bikes and all sorts of devices with lithium batteries are more likely to catch fire. A lot are cheap, unregulated devices and people have them in their apartments, basements and balconies. That’s what I’d be more concerned about.”

Mr Boundy said, while older buildings were more at risk of a “rare” EV fire, the National Construction Code (NCC) required all new apartment buildings to be built EV-ready.

“The way buildings are being built now, with basements being isolated and improved fire ratings, if I was a resident, I wouldn’t be too concerned,” he said.

“The reality is, we’re moving towards an EV world and when someone buys an EV, they want to be able to charge it at home.

“We manage facilities that are being retrofitted with chargers; some have one or two chargers, and a couple have more than 30 installed.”

Alex Boundy

Civium Facilities Management director Alex Boundy said there were “still a lot of myths and misconceptions” around EVs and the potential for battery fires in basement carparks. Photo: Michelle Kroll.

He said a “good indicator” of the EV fire risk was apartment building insurance premiums.

“As recently as last week, having an EV charger has had no effect on premiums, because insurers base their cover on statistics.

“They’re at the coalface, so insurance premiums are a good indicator of the real risk.

“People need to be looking at the numbers, rather than listening to hype from anti-EV campaigners.”

A specialist in policy analysis, risk and claims management, Steven Farmer from Allinsure said EV lithium-ion battery fires in residential strata complexes were being “very closely watched and analysed” by insurance companies.

“There’s a whole host of potential risks waiting to be realised,” he said.

READ ALSO Should e-bike and e-scooter charging be banned in apartments to manage fire risk?

“New buildings with all the right infrastructure in place will fare better when it comes to insurance.”

He said an $80,000 EV had “greater protection measures” built-in as opposed to a cheap e-scooter, however once a fire started in a lithium car battery, it could “sometimes take days” to extinguish.

Some insurers are starting to include management packages to educate people about how to look after their vehicle or devices with lithium-ion batteries to reduce the fire risk.

Mr Boundy said the issue continued to be hotly debated by apartment owners at AGMs and he wanted to ensure residents were properly informed of the risk.

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Incidental Tourist10:23 pm 05 Feb 24

Charging stations are non-combustible and don’t pose extra hazard. Rather EVs do. And the biggest risk to EVs is dangerous driving and phone distraction, not the EV battery as such. I would compare EV fire to shark attacks which attract a lot of media noise but rare.

Cristian Gonzalez7:19 pm 05 Feb 24

not against EVs, but in my business building just before the end of last year, we had a tenant store an E-bike in their office, which exploded and caused a fire in their tenancy, office destroyed and the whole building shut down for 4 weeks due to toxins in the air etc. I understand the likelihood of EVs exploding is less than E-bikes etc, id say concerns should still be high until more info is know

devils_advocate3:23 pm 05 Feb 24

1) the issue is not just the likelihood of an incident, but the severity/consequences. Risk is both likelihood and consequence.
2) the overall severity is increased by the enclosed space.
3) the risk is not just for apartment owners – fire fighters have a right to go home to their families after work as well.
4) why should apartment owners have risks imposed on them by other occupants for no benefit to themselves? (See negative externality)

Voice Of Reason10:19 am 05 Feb 24

Anecdotal evidence isn’t reliable ‘evidence’ to base policies on. Reliable evidence would be data and direct figures from the insurers, including details on their their risk calculation analyses/variables/formulae.

As recently as Nov 2023, the following was reported: “WorkSafe Victoria recommends employers should “prevent the use, storage or charging of electric plant or passenger vehicles in enclosed and restricted spaces, unless the fire detection and suppression system is suitable for the special fire hazard (a lithium-ion battery fire).”

It would be very helpful for this debate to have access to reputable research.

I’m not so much concerned about the fire risk of EV chargers in my apartment complex. I’m more worried about the additional cost of the chargers being forced upon all owners whether they want chargers or not.

And that’s a reasonable concern, if that’s actually what the proposal is. A sensible position is for the garages in the complex to be provisioned for sufficient capacity to support chargers, with the chargers themselves to be installed by an accredited sparkie at the individual’s expense. As a minimum, perhaps install standard 10a or 15a powerpoints allowing EVs to be charged slowly overnight.
My understanding is that there are two key restricting factors: many complexes aren’t provisioned for the load potentially created by multiple chargers (rather than powerpoints) requiring upgrade, and then the subsequent requirement for individual metering in the garages.
Otherwise, an apartment garage provisioned with power for EV charging is becoming a tick-box for many potential buyers. It could be argued that provisioning garages could add value to the property, noting the clear evidence that EV ownership is increasing.

Voice Of Reason9:45 pm 04 Feb 24

How about we ask the property insurers, and the EV vehicle insurers, about the significantly increased risks & associated increases in $$$ insurance premiums?

This should give everyone a baseline to work from, and an understanding of how the increased risks for EVs, and increased risks for EV storage areas, are calculated….

A Nonny Mouse7:48 am 05 Feb 24

This was addressed in the article: “He said a “good indicator” of the EV fire risk was apartment building insurance premiums.
“As recently as last week, having an EV charger has had no effect on premiums, because insurers base their cover on statistics.
“They’re at the coalface, so insurance premiums are a good indicator of the real risk.”
Meanwhile, I just renewed my comprehensive insurance for my electric car. The premium was only slightly increased from last year and (after accounting for inflation in the intervening years) not much different from the premium I paid for our last fossil car.

devils_advocate4:52 pm 05 Feb 24

The issue is not so much the premium but the question of , on what grounds they will be refusing claims for EV fires

@devils_advocate
Yes – as much an issue as perhaps refusal of a claim for a fire caused by a mobile phone charger.

GrumpyGrandpa9:04 pm 04 Feb 24

I’m not anti-EV, but when the firebrigade is concerned, then I think we all should be concerned.

There is no doubt that ICE fires are more common than EV fires and Hybrid fires (which have small batteries than an ICE) are more common again. But it’s never been about the probability, it’s been about the consequences.

ICE fires are easily put out. EV’s burn with thermal runaway and create their own oxygen as they breakdown.
The other issue that doesn’t get as much coverage is the release of toxic gases during EV fires.

As I say, I am NOT EV. My next car is likely to be an EV.

Its just prudent to err on the side of caution.

Maybe the safest means of providing EV charging within apartment blocks is for charging stations to be located on external parking areas, with coded assess to the apartment owners electricity account? Similar to public charging stations, but with access locked for non-apartment owners.

https://the-riotact.com/what-happens-when-an-ev-catches-fire-act-firies-say-its-sobering/640993

Synthetic fuel, said to be eco friendly, is on the way. Formula 1 and Porsche have made grear advances on it.

The manufacture of non-EVs has a smaller carbon footprint than EVs.

Non-EVs, particularly when looked after, can last a really long time.

If I was genuinely frightened that man’s CO2 emissions were going to cook the world, I’d be engineering a one non-EV car culture that’s powered by synthetic fuels. That this isn’t even being mentioned means the social engineers are worried about something else

Well done Civium with your positive and realistic comments.
Far better than the Strata Manager than usually gives his opinions on the RiotAct.

If 3 or 4 EV’s are parked together underground in a high rise building & they all catch fire then it could be a total disaster & could impact the integrity of the building.

Did you read Any of the article above? It would appear not.

EV battery packs are well protected from the sort of damage which could lead to thermal run-away, so the likelihood of a fire is rare, with that result from LFP batteries even rarer. The real threat is from other applications of third-party Lithium batteries without over-charge protection e.g. eBikes, scooters, vacuum cleaners, etc.

@franky22
While I get your opposition to EVs, perhaps do a bit of research rather than just continually post ill-informed commentary.

There is a difference between an EV fire and an EV battery fire … check out the first part of this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQJBlMujlp8).

Can’t wait for the flood of EV fire risk comments, from the usual EV opponent experts, complete with YouTube links.

Yes its a bummer when annoying stuff like facts interfere with the rose coloured EV utopian narrative.

100% … I’m ready with popcorn in hand.

@franky22
Oh yes please, franky22 … surprise me and my “rose coloured EV utopian narrative” by actually presenting some facts

devils_advocate3:25 pm 05 Feb 24

Have to agree some of those explosion videos are pretty spectacular

@devils_advocate
I agree – petrol station explosions are quite specatacular

devils_advocate4:51 pm 05 Feb 24

@Justsaying

Would have to disagree, petrol stations don’t really tend to explode, really just burn until they’re put out. Similarly with ICE car fires. Ho hum.

For pure spectacle nothing competes with thermal runaway in an EV.

devils_advocate
I don’t know where you get your ‘ho hum’ notion that “petrol stations don’t really tend to explode” – a simple YouTube search shows that to be totally false as some petrol station explosions have not only been a “spectacle” but also fatal.

I’m not sure what type of warped minds finds “thermal runaway in an EV” to be a spectacle. Nevertheless, I agree that this is an issue – and the SIX cases of EV battery fires in Australia have been a concern.

It’s a good thing that the non-ICE manufacturers are looking to ways to address the issue – e.g solid state batteries, which can tolerate higher temperatures and have a higher thermal stability, for EVs, ; hydrogen powered vehicles, synthetic fuels and so on.

devils_advocate4:21 pm 06 Feb 24

@justsaying
Fascinating and completely irrelevant to my point.

EV owners are free to take on however much risk they like in their own homes.

They should not be free to impose that risk on others when living in residential homes with shared parking facilities.

@devils_advocate
It may well be irrelevant to your point … if only I could actually work out what your point is.

You constantly remark about the risk of EV battery fires, yet you ignore other technology which statistically poses a statistically higher fire risk, such as cheap and dodgy mobile phone chargers which, many occupants of apartment buildings use and, despite not being as spectacular as an “thermal runaway in an EV battery” can still cause similar damage. Also, I wonder how many residents with shared parking facilities store their spare gas bottles in their garage lockup? Gas bottle explosions are also quite “a spectacle”.

As I have agreed, there certainly are concerns around EV battery fires – and perhaps you can make a case for bodies corporate to ask EV owners to contribute more towards the cost of the building insurance if premiums increase because of that risk. However, I’m wondering if insurance companies haven’t tuned into the ‘henny penny’ hysteria and are using it as an excuse to up the premiums – given they and you, conveniently ignore the fact that there have only been 6 EV battery fires in Australia since 2010.

Perhaps they are safe, time will tell, but history has taught us to be cautious with new wonder technologies. Asbestos sheeting, loose fill asbestos insulation, flammable external cladding, engineered stone bench tops, these are just a few examples where the new wonder material turned out to be a disaster.

Newsflash … EV’s and EV charging are not a new technology.
The chances of an ICE vehicle catching fire is 60 times greater than an EV, while Hybrids are 120 more likely.

I agree. Various problems are already emerging from the introduction of EV’s and the fact that many of them are Chinese doesn’t inspire confidence in me. Then there is the problem of arson which might be on a car next to an EV which would be more difficult to extinguish. The dangers of EV fires needs more time to access.

Capital Retro5:17 pm 04 Feb 24

What happened to the combustible cladding removal plan?

The ACT government announced its plan to address combustible cladding on private buildings in late 2020, the first phase covering voluntary application for testing and assessment, and second phase covering actual rectification work. The ACT Government suspects that there are approximately 90 private buildings in Canberra that are affected by combustible cladding, however, has not engaged in a formal audit to ascertain certainty.

As a result of ongoing advocacy from SCA, Owners Corporation Network (OCN) and other stakeholders in the ACT, we have seen an increased sense of urgency on this issue over the past months. Recently, ACT Liberals leader Elizabeth Lee MLA criticised the current Government, calling on them to make this issue a priority to both set a date for phase 2 and release “concrete details of the remediation loan scheme.”

The ACT Government have since announced the details of the concessional loan scheme, which is open for application from 29 August 2022. The loans will be at a fixed interest rate of 4.2%, with a loan repayment period of 10 years following completion of works

I haven’t noticed any activity on the ground, anywhere.

The latent problem with combustible batteries in EV will go the same way. Labor governments are renown for saying the word “plan”. They are still doing it today. The compliant media never asks what the “plan” entails.

@teddy bear
See my comment (and link) to franky22 above … there is a HUGE difference between an EV fire and an EV battery fire … so arson would be no worse than an ICE fire *sheesh – face palm*

Robz, some existing L-ion EV batteries grow dendrites which eventually short circuit the electrodes. This problem gets worse as the battery becomes old and degraded, and we can’t yet predict when it will fail. Technologies are under development to prevent this problem in future EV batteries, not existing ones.

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