Bloody On-Road Cyclists

It frightens me a little to realise these threads have been going in the same circular state for almost seven years. And by the sounds of the first few replies to the OP, the debate was tired in 2005.

I’ve been guilty of contributing to the circular debate in the past, but this has been a bit of eye-opener, haha.

For all Blamemoney’s yelling he does have one point I will agree to.. I drive the Tidbinbilla/Paddy’s RIver/ Point hut crossing road every day for work. If any ones been along there recently you will realise they are in pretty poor condition.

A couple of work colleges are brave enough ride to work alone there and I support them wholeheartedly as are are doing the sensible thing, green, healthy etc. And I have no issues with that. I do my best when driving near them to share and be courteous etc, and they in turn keep to the left and share the road.

I just get lost when I see the riders who are using those roads for no other reason but keeping fit. They have no real reason for being on those dangerous roads. You can keep just as fit riding on the purpose built shared pathways.. You don’t need to be on the Cotter or Tharwa roads. And you certainly don’t need to ride three abreast on such roads like I have witnessed.

The Tidbinbilla Rd has a 100 k/h speed limit from Tharwa to beyond the tracking station. It’s a circuitous and sometimes rough road. It makes little sense to me to put yourself at risk on a road like that when you really don’t have to.

Sorry it just bugs me. There are many other safer and picturesque locations for bike riding if all you are doing is keeping fit.

Slapp_monkey said :

I didn’t put a big bull bar on the front of my ute for Roo’s it was to nudge those annoy cyclist. The ones that jump from the road to foot path and back again. Either you are a road user or walking path take your pick. None of this best of both worlds bollocks.

What is peoples issue with this? As long as their not leaping out in front of traffic of course. It is not like this action hinders any cars.

Mr Gillespie said :

Roads are for cars, not bikes.

Incorrect – anyone who has any knowledge of the Australian Road Rules would be aware that they make it quite clear that the roads are also for bicycles. Have you ever read the road rules? Do you have a driver’s licence?

Mr Gillespie said :

There are OFF-ROAD cycle paths…

Where are these in Canberra? There are plenty of shared paths in the ACT, but I’m not aware of any dedicated cycle paths. I’m willing to be corrected on that however – so if you can show me otherwise then I’ll happily apologise.

Mr Gillespie said :

The bonus feature is that cars don’t use these off-road cycle paths

Not from my experience – I’ve almost been cleaned up by cars travelling at speed on the shared paths twice over the years and observed plenty more. Most of them are tradesmen in their utes and vans – in my observation a group significantly more likely to ignore the road rules than just about anyone else on the road.

Finally, here’s a link to a recent study on bicycle crashes within the ACT conducted by the University of Sydney and the ANU – http://www.roadsafetytrust.org.au/c/rtt?a=sendfile&ft=p&fid=1330472150&sid=

The conclusion makes quite interesting reading, in part saying, “This study confirms the value of on-road lanes reserved exclusively for cyclists as a means of reducing their crash and injury rates but raises questions as to the safety of cycling on shared paths and pedestrian areas.” The study acknowledges some of the limitations of how the study was conducted, but it’s well worth a read through.

Mr Gillespie said :

The only place I have seen cars drive are on roads.

Don’t get out much? Snapperhead.

“WAAAAAAAAAAAAA I hafta put on me breaks WAAAAAAAAAAA” NOTHING!!

Roads are for cars, not bikes. There are OFF-ROAD cycle paths (and more should be built) for cyclists. The bonus feature is that cars don’t use these off-road cycle paths (I know, from first-hand experience of riding on these paths myself). Not even a motorcyclist has whizzed past me. Just bikes.

The only place I have seen cars drive are on roads.

Oh and don’t give me that crap about “fossil fuels” because it is not always practical to ride your bike from Gungahlin to Tuggeranong (DUH)

mezla said :

So, in summary zhimmyd:
“WAAAAAAA, I have to use my brakes, WAAAAAAA!!!”

That about right? Yeah, I thought so. Such an amazingly ignorant self-interested bogan… why I’m even bothering to post is beyond me.

Considering this post is 6 years old and Zhimmyd will likely never read your alleged response, which I think actually misses the point he was trying to make, I’m wondering why you did too.

So, in summary zhimmyd:
“WAAAAAAA, I have to use my brakes, WAAAAAAA!!!”

That about right? Yeah, I thought so. Such an amazingly ignorant self-interested bogan… why I’m even bothering to post is beyond me.

I just wish all these cars would get off my bike roads, damn freeloading fossil fuelers, use your own damn energy!

zhimmyd said :

Get the cyclists off the road – spend the money on putting a bike lane in ‘near’ the road rather then ‘on’ the road. Sure there are some costs, but to save on 50 X million dollar conpensation for hit drivers, they can have their ‘off road’ cycling.

Sure, I’m all for that. I’d rather use the shared paths than the road, wherever possible.

You’re never going to get all bicycles off all roads, but perhaps in places where a shared path exists alongside a road, some signage could be put up saying “no bicycles”, much like motorways have signage saying “no pedestrians, bicycles, tractors, etc”. Athllon Drive is a good example – there’s really no reason to cycle on the road while there’s a half decent (actually, it sucks in places) shared path available. I’m not sure why they introduced a cycle lane on the lower half of Athllon Drive while the shared path is only 30 metres or so from the side of the road.

You’ve said it yourself though – the infrastructure has to be available, and it has to be maintained. I’m not aware of any cycle paths close to Adelaide Avenue. I know one runs through Yarralumla, etc, but it’s not in great condition and tends to take you the long way. But if you, and the rest of us, are prepared to let the govt spend the money on the infrastructure, I’ll use it. There’s hypocrisy on both sides – drivers say we want shared paths AND bike lanes AND right of way, but at the same time drivers want us registered AND off the road AND no money can be spent on cycling infrastructure.

The closest thing you’ll get to a compromise is to build suitable infrastructure (and it’ll cost), and ban cyclists from high-speed roads where the cycling infrastructure alongside.

I’ve been watching this matter for some months from the point of view of the cyclist and the point of view of a motorist (as I used to use these roads regularly in both transport modes – not as a cyclist anymore since observing a certain incident involving a Jim’s Mowing guy and a cyclist, and then being rammed by a motorist myself later the same day).
It seems to me that like most things, there is fault in both sides. Firstly, Canberra drivers generally don’t seem to look very far ahead, and they seem to plan for an even shorter distance ahead. If you know you’re going to merge, and you know by now there are “green lanes”, you should be on the lookout for cyclists well before your intended exit. As I drive home along Adelaide Ave and crest the hill near the Lodge, my attention is invariably drawn to at least one well light cyclist all the way down near the Novar/Kent St exit – I’ve got plenty of time to plan to work around the cyclist and not miss my Cotter Rd exit – just as I have to plan ahead for any other lane I wish to cross in order to make my exit. Many motorists seem to be genuinely surprised that there is a cyclist there when they come to exit.
Additionally, the length of the “green lane” means I have never had to take evasive action to avoid a cyclist proceeding straight – you can either go ahead of the cyclist if there is room, or if not, just going around behind the cyclist (though for some strange reason most motorist seem averse to the latter option).
Having said all that, many cyclists don’t help things by not being well lit – a decent rear light cost me only $25 and took about 1 minute to install – I can’t believe the number of cyclists whose life isn’t worth that kind of investment in their own safety! Add to that the cyclists that probably have decent a light but you wouldn’t know because it’s mounted on their backpack and pointed at the aircraft. And If you try to make a suggestion to them about it, they don’t seem to understand what you’re on about
Then probably worst of all are the cyclists who appear to be exiting (ie. not using the “green lane” but riding to the left of it), then at the critical moment when the motorist is just about to exit, the cyclist ducks across the “green lane” and expects everyone to give way to them. I’ve even tried to address this with my fellow cyclist but they really don’t seem to understand their contribution to the problem.

Just treat cyclists as faster moving pedestrians. Pedestrians can wear (or not wear) anything in any colour they like and they are MUCH WORSE then cyclists.

How do I tell them that, because of the unfreezing process, I have no inner monologue?

“I’ve got”
“I’ve” is sufficient OP

I don’t get this. I ride my bike on the road because it’s a road and I’m a vehicle and the rules say I can. And as an occasional, and mostly affectionate, visitor to Canberra, there are quite enough rules already that say what I can’t do that I don’t need to invent any more. If I’m on the inside lane of a multi-lane road it’s your business not to side-swipe me when you’re leaving the road whether I’m a car or a truck, or an a bike or a pogo stick. The green lane is neither here nor

Why did you guys res a 6 year old topic?

dpm said :

Kudos to all the people who proactively find ways to fit exercise into their weeks as there are many ways it can be done! However, many people seem to have no time for themselves or their health. We should all stop work and smell the roses! But, ‘gotta get ahead’. Funny world….

I got back on my bike again after an accident with a cyclist ironically. I used to ride my road bike (motorcycle) to work & was getting fed up with nearly being run over every second day.

I was always of the opinion that I had to ride/drive as I was time poor but this is not the case, its about priorities. Some people prioritise everything else ahead of themselves which can lead to lazy eating habits & weight gain.

The cyclist I hit was an 80 year old guy cycling to the gym in Civic. I had an apiffany……..if he could do that I could ride the 30km’s home. First time took me 1 & 3/4 hours & my wife thought I was going to drop dead as I walked in the door. As time went along & set goals, the biggest one was being able to beat the bus. My morning bus takes an hour to get to work & it wasnt until I bought a road pushbike that I cracked this time. I now regularly do between 56 minutes & 1:10 depending on the wind.

I have also re-found my youthful love of off road riding. Just about everything is closed off to vehicular access these days but with a pushy, a day can be spent without the crowds exploring the Brindabellas. & then there is Stromlo, Bruce Ridge, East Kowen & Majura. (wooooohoooooooo!!).

The kids also love it.

Cycling has become so much of my life now that the motorbike is up for sale as I never ride it (I have had a bike for more than 20 years) & I have only been fishing once this year.

Cyclists don’t wear out the roads, their impact on the roads is pretty-much zero. Why should they pay rego? OTOH, trucks in no way pay for even a fraction of the damage they do to the road surface. We are all subsidising them, big-time. The weight of them smashes the road structure to bits. If it weren’t for trucks, we’d need a damn sight less road repairs.

usually_silent said :

that old chestnut about cyclists paying rego to contribute to road costs – nearly all cyclists have cars too because its hard to manage in canberra without one. So we pay the same as you but use the roads and parking spaces less often, especially during peak hour. It makes sense to encourage more cycle commuting – less traffic and parking congestion and the cyclists contribute just as much because they use cars too, just not a often

Personally, i’d be happy to pay some sort of bike rego, just to shut up that argument! Maybe not $600 though! Unfortunately, it’s not too feasable. Almost everyone owns a bike (bike sales regularly outstrip that of cars) but only ride them about once a year. What do you do with the majority that fit into that category?
Besides, as part as a public health initiative of some sort, they should be subsidising people to walk/run/ride to work! 🙂 Pity this world has got so fast and hectic that many people only have time for their jobs (and the remainder for their families!).
Kudos to all the people who proactively find ways to fit exercise into their weeks as there are many ways it can be done! However, many people seem to have no time for themselves or their health. We should all stop work and smell the roses! But, ‘gotta get ahead’. Funny world….

that old chestnut about cyclists paying rego to contribute to road costs – nearly all cyclists have cars too because its hard to manage in canberra without one. So we pay the same as you but use the roads and parking spaces less often, especially during peak hour. It makes sense to encourage more cycle commuting – less traffic and parking congestion and the cyclists contribute just as much because they use cars too, just not a often

cyclists on the road that old chesnut hey. i know this thread is old and that im going to be a little off topic .

anyway a while back when we had shose big storms i went for a drive in the the ranges. anyways driveing up brindabella road i see signs saying cyclists ahead.

its pissing down rain on a slipery dirt road and here are these tools rideing all over the road mostly on the wrong side of the road on blind corners.

dont know how many of you have ever been in that neck of the woods but the road is very narrow no armco and lots of blind courners. yet there are ppl that say im spose to be tolerant of these arseholes.

Ahh I get it…

Mr Weevil…

My parents never had money; in fact we were so poor there were 350 of us living in shoebox in middle o’ road.

Wow,

Thats put me in my place, poor parents who could not afford private schooling. Guess you are part of this rich kid collective, whose parents had money. Good for you, must make you a better person then me. Money always does that.

So what you got now?

Don’t blame public school blame his parents for not drowning him at birth….
Was that to harsh…. Maybe not

Public schooling has a lot to answer for.

Dear Mr Evil,
You want me to get my hand off it. Why so that you can put your mouth on it? You would like that wouldn’t you.

Dirty
Dirty
Man.
Have you no shame.

Wait, why am I bothering to reply.

I don’t even care what you think!

Slapp_monkey, get ya hand off it!

Its like a barrel of monkeys in here…….

See about time somebody wised up a realised that
Riding on the road is dangerous. See Jey has the right idea you stay off my road and you don’t get the razor wire bullbar. If they had more cops in this town I would almost be worried about getting pulled over. HA ha ha ha ha.Like that is going to happen.

Blame monkey I’m still waiting or maybe you just chickened out.

I’m too scared to ride on the road.

I’m a rider and a driver — makes no difference, really. I find the best philosophy is to respect anything bigger than you, no matter what vehicle you’re sitting on/in. Defensive driving helps too: assume everyone else is a dickhead and take no situation for granted. Works for me (so far!).

Maybe there’s a little too much ‘spank the monkey’ going on?

but now there is a screamingmonkey……
what’s going on…

Slapp-monkey + Blamemonkey = perhaps just one monkey????

Blame monkey,

I’ll be there you can bring your girl guide outfit, so you blend in with the rest of sissy after I beat you into next week. Maybe by then the stupid may leaked out little.

You got a problem with the utes the backbone vehicle of this fine country. Bet you drive some little chick car or worse yet you are one of those yuppie soccer mums that doesn’t know how to change lanes. But then what does it all matter you have an important husband, who makes all the choices for you. Come and have a go if you think you are hard enough.

Nice work T-Bone, Mr Evil and Slinky – I’m in tears 🙂

The whole raison d’etre of RiotACT in 3 comments.

Or cycling Stanhopes who impose water restrictions on smokers, Komodo dragons and the Pratt.

How about cycling smokers who cut down heritage trees to build light rail for camels?

Speaking of bike racks, I noted on my way to work this morning that buses now have the bike rack not in use sign removed from the front.

Unless bus 243 (I think) had it’s one blown off, are they in use now ?

I also take offense to the fact that Slapp_monkeys nick is so similar to mine… bike racks 3 0’clock fight to see who gets to keep there name!

Make it about cycling smokers. That should get the punters in.

Good call Slinky. 😉

Yeah, we should start a thread like this every wednesday morning…

I just love how the topic of cyclists and cars always brings the ‘redneck’ out in some (not all!) people.

I’m sure you are the sharpest TOOL in the shed and that you wear a blue wife beater and mullet to match your UTE, Dickheads that drive utes in Canberra with bull bars should be put in the same category as Yuppies with 4 wheel drives, they are both wankers that have less right on the road then bikes.
If you are not smart enough to operate a computer get up walk away and get some crayons

Blamemonkey.

I bet your the kind of guy that spends $70 on a shirt and still looks bad. Another poor public slave that thinks he is far to educated and under paid. Is that all you’ve got, bitching about living in the rural retreats of canberra with those other yuppie scum. Now I’m going to have to find some pink paint for the bullbar that way it will match the stupid colour of your shirt.

Nice double post loser

Who cares about pedal bikes, really. We invented engines for a reason, to travel fast and with less effort. Cyclist are annoy as feck they should only be allowed on the road provided they accept the contact nature of my driving.

I didn’t put a big bull bar on the front of my ute for Roo’s it was to nudge those annoy cyclist. The ones that jump from the road to foot path and back again. Either you are a road user or walking path take your pick. None of this best of both worlds bollocks.

You have all p*ssed me off I’m going to buy some razor wire and wrap the front of my bull bar with it.

Who cares about pedal bikes, really. We invented engines for a reason, to travel fast and with less effort. Cyclist are annoy as feck they should only be allowed on the road provided they accept the contact nature of my driving.

I didn’t put a big bull bar on the front of my ute for Roo’s it was to nudge those annoy cyclist. The ones that jump from the road to foot path and back again. Either you are a road user or walking path take your pick. None of this best of both worlds bollocks.

You have all p*ssed me off I’m going to buy some razor wire and wrap the front of my bull bar with it.

I like option 3 zhimmyd !!!

Seriously, I don’t know quite where to even start to reply to your posting and much has been said on this topic before.

I find the cyclelanes to have made cycling a much more pleasant experience as both a car driver and a cyclist. For the most part, us cyclists trundle along happily in these lanes with a nice separation from cars. The green lanes are an area of higher danger and require more care from all road users – this situation nor the law have changed. The green lanes simply highlight this is an area for all concerned to take care.

Trying to concentrate on the positives, cycling is a fantastic activity and a great way to commute to work if it presents as a viable option for you. Not only do you get fitter, save on fuel, parking, car wear and tear, the environment etc., it can be a really enjoyable experience.

zhimmyd, that’s a pretty good summation – even if 3. never happens 🙂

if I’m reading you correctly it’s the green lanes crossing on-off ramps that are the biggest issue, and to be truthful if I had to stop at these and then cross over it wouldn’t worry me. And given the option I’d prefer off-road cycle paths too, but notwithstanding your previous comment about engineering costs of on-lane paths I suspect they’re still cheaper than building new off-lane ones. So, if I can’t have an off-lane path, please leave my on-lane ones there, because no path at all is far more dangerous again.

Good post, and some interesting discussion. A lot less flaming than I was expecting, to be honest. 🙂

I’d like to bud back in here and say this:

You can see the frustration that car drivers have against cyclists, and that cyclists have against car drivers (all about the on-road cycling) for positive and negative reasons for each. Take this and apply it to a real-life situation on the road.

A cyclist has in their mind their ‘right of way’ when riding on the road. They just make their way to cross one of the exist ramps, or at traffic lights, or whatever. The car drivers who are frustrated with the way ‘some’ cyclists ride stupidly, would try and prove some kind of point to the cyclist by trying to get in front of them to use the exist ramp, all at the same time the cyclist knowing “i’m in the right, i’ll just continue riding”.

Here you have 2 people, both frustrated at each other because they have to share the road, and what happens? Someone calls an ambulance, cops turn up, cyclist gets taken away to hospital. Cyclist (human) + Car (metal) = bits of human all over car. It’s never going to be the other way around.

How can this be fixed? Cyclists should give way to cars when crossing roads, JUST LIKE PEDESTRIANS DO when crossing a road without a crosswalk. It’s been working for many many years this way, and it tends to work. 2. Get the cyclists off the road – spend the money on putting a bike lane in ‘near’ the road rather then ‘on’ the road. Sure there are some costs, but to save on 50 X million dollar conpensation for hit drivers, they can have their ‘off road’ cycling. 3. Leave the bikes on the road, remove cars from the road.

As both a cyclist and a driver I can see both sides of the bikelane arguement, and still think that they are a bloody stupid idea.

The bike lanes were mostly created by painting the emergency shoulder green. If a car is in trouble then it’s going to pull onto the side shoulder to stop. The fact that it’s painted green isn’t going to be foremost on the drivers mind, and finding a cyclist in front of him while driving a faulty car, there’s not much that the driver is going to be able to do.

I saw the recent aftermath of an accident like that on hindmarsh drive several years ago (before they started painting the emergency lanes green). I don’t intend to become as mangled as he was.

Do I require credibility to post on Riotact??

🙂 No, I guess not, Blamemonkey – fair call.

Kramer don’t bikes have bells on them… a simple ring of the bell and pedestians get out of the way, maybe next time i come up to a group of cyclists i blast my horn until they get out of the way…..

Flying bikes way of the future but then we will be have the discussion Flying bikes Vs planes

Random if you combine the fact that they are taking up the whole road with the blind corners and blamemonkey doing 100 ks an hour… I come around this blind corner and run into a group of cyclists I don’t think anyone is going to be happy.
With cyclists on northbourne, Adelaide ave or where ever they have the green lane all is good they can stay in there lane I will stay in mine, but if they are not in a bike lane but on a road they are in a motor vehicle space and should give right of way to Cars/motorbikes.

Snarky – Do I require credibility to post on Riotact?? I’m a car driver I drive on roads, I am also a Canberrian that has an opinion, if you don’t care for my opinion ignore it, if you have something enlightening that could change my opinion that cyclists do not belong on the road please share it. If I chose to swear and get angry about a subject and it offends your time on the Net I’m sorry but it’s my opinion and I can deliver it any way I want

How about we spend the $100m on flying bikes instead – mmmm, flying bikes. (I’d even be prepared to pay registration on one of those babies)

You guys ever heard of sharing? It’s what the guys on bikes have to do with you godamn slow pedestrians on the bike paths around town. These pedestrians don’t even stay on the left side of the path, they don’t look for bikes approaching from front or behind. We should ban all non-bike traffic from our cycle paths, and while we are at it how about a $100 million for upgrades to cycle paths to bring them up to the level of our roads. Everyone happy now?

Hello Blamemonkey,

I think you’ll agree that this comment …the simple fact is that there are cock head cyclist who believe they are “car” proof… even though it may well be true isn’t giving you much credibility when combined with this comment It’s my Road get the Hell off it!.

Pot, kettle, yada yada yada. Seriously, is it really that hard to get along with each other?

Blamemonkey, how wide is the road? It’s often safer for cyclists to take up the entire lane/road on narrow streets because there isn’t enough room for cars to safely drive past them. That’s especially true on blind corners. It’s also possible that they can’t safely ride on the edge of the road. Road bikes are much more fragile than cars, so the surface of the shoulder might not be smooth enough.

Cyclists don’t need to dismount at pedestrian crossings, but they don’t have right-of-way unless they do.

I know this subject has been done to death on this site but the simple fact is that there are cock head cyclist who believe they are “car” proof.

What also pisses me off is when cyclists ride across pedestian crossing corect me if i’m wrong but they are ment to get off there Farking bike when they cross…

Simple fact bike vs Car, car wins every time! so why put yourself in a dangerous situation where you could lose your life .

keep safe keep on the bike paths.

I can’t see the problem with the green lanes, its not as if they are sudden or anything like that, nor generally do cyclists suddenly approach from an off-road path onto a green lane (most of the time they are already on the roadside).

So as I’m approaching a green lane in my car, I can see the cyclist, I can see the green lane, and I have to judge my speed and the speed of the cyclist just like when I overtake EVERYTHING else on the road.

If I can’t make it, I slow down enough to let the cyclist clear the obstacle, if I can, I do (and safely too – I don’t cut in front of the cyclist).

That said, should a cyclist suddenly appear in the green lane from – wherever, and insist on right of way, a solid burst from my car horn in close proximity and the revving of a car that’s been dropped 2 gears aught to make his spandex a little more brown.

Still, I don’t have any problem with the green lane. Get over it.

Hey Blamemonkey,

Bikes can ride on your roads, but if you drove on their bike paths, you’d be the one who gets in trouble! 🙂

Living out in Gundaroo, I hate Cyclists, they are out there every weekend riding on Sutton road and Murrumbateman road in groups of three or more spread across the lane which has a speed limit of 100Ks with heaps of blind fu*king corners….

Now if I collect a cyclist at 100ks I have probably ended there life and ruined mine in all honesty I see this as selfish, it is not a freakin bike path out there it is a fraking rural road with blind corners I’m surprised that a Cyclist isn’t injured/killed out there every other weekend.

What also shits me is that they (group of 3+) take up the whole freakin lane so I am forced to go around 40ks an hour… give me a break..

It’s my Road get the Hell off it!

I understand what your saying Snarky. There isn’t bike lanes everywhere, and really, some of them are in dodgey condition with tree root cracks appearing and making it a bumpy ride. I would have rather have seen the money spent on 1: fixing existing paths, and 2: creating new paths, even if they are 5-10 metres off the roadside for safety.

I disagree with you on the costs to put those ‘green’ lanes in. Have a good look at a road with a cycle lane. They have had to pay contractors to drill (yes drill) every single cat-eye off the road, get engineers to approve the new lane width, then pay the contractors again to re-stick down new cateyes, and paint new lines on the road. On top of this, its starting to get unavoidable at some parts on the roads to NOT drive over where the old cat-eyes used to be (where the old tar exists) to give you a very noisy drive. It would cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars to do a big stretch of road (such as Adelaide avenue). On top of that, speed limits have been dropped in alot of places (Like Northbourne, from 70kmph to 60kmph) because of the new cycle lanes, thus creating a slow trip for cars (not that Northbourne usually moves that quick, but its just an example).

Like you, i’d take an extra detour to simply stay off the road. I’d much rather breathe in cleaner air from around the lake, then to breathe in car-exhaust emmissions by cycling on the road. Just watch – there will be law suits against the government for all these people who get lung cancer down the track becaues of that exact reason!

I still worry about the safety of the onroad cycling. As you said, drivers should look out when they drive, and they do. My point about not seeing cyclists is easy. If your doing 80km down Adelaide Avenue and your turning off (across a green path cycle way), the sun is in your eyes, there is no way you’d see a cyclist wearing dark coloured clothes as easy as you would see a black car, or even a motor bike. Also seeing those stupid ‘sit down bicycles’ without any type of high rising flag to attract attention is just asking for trouble. They would easily go under a 4WD.

Ooh, nice point about the car/semi-trailer relationship and also about making big detours with bikepaths Snarky. (My ride to work – when I get off my fat arse and do it – takes 20 mins more if I follow the bike path route)

(And probably generally better put than my rant)

I’m not going to buy into this
I’m not going to buy into this
I’m not going to buy into this

But…selfish is the inability to share – if you can’t slow down to leave a main road and if you’re not paying attention to other road users (motorbikes aren’t much bigger than pushies) then perhaps it’s your own use of the roads you need to be considering Bonfire et al.

I have a car, I buy petrol and my taxes go to roads as much as yours. I also pay for roads that I never use, just as you all do. If I choose to ride my bike and there are lanes there, I’m going to use them – end of story. Should we get rid of those selfish bus lanes as well?

I’d be very interesting to see your facts zhimmyd – I’m seeing a lot of conjecture but not so much in the way of backup.

As for cyclists acting like they own the road – when you are cruising along an 80kmh road, you have to be confident and you have to assert your rights or cars will just…um…walk all over you. Try it sometime and maybe you’ll understand a little more.

(And for the record, I’m opposed to any road user acting in an unsafe manner)

Ok, having said all that, this is a discussion that’s been had many a time with little resolution so that’s (probably) all I’m going to say on the matter (unless someone say something worthwhile)

as i have stated before, cyclists are intrinsically selfish.

Thank god for our altruistic, caring and aware car drivers then, eh, bonfire? Be a real mess otherwise.

Agree with Slinky and T-bone. But what the heck…

By law, if you hit a pedestrian or cyclist, no matter what the circumstances, your at fault.
Are you quite sure about that? I think not.

..the cars not seeing the cyclist for whatever reason..
Cars miss seeing motorbikes, other cars, buses and trucks too. If a person is given control of a large fast dangerous object they should learn to control the bloody thing, and that includes whatching where they’re going.

…first being my frustration at the cyclists for using these green paths…
I understand where you’re going, and sympathise to a degree, but as a regular cyclist two points spring up. One, cycle paths are great in Canberra – they really are. But they don’t go everywhere particularly efficiently. I don’t mind a 1-2 km detour in places if it’s safer, but sometimes the road is your only serious option. In this case give me a marked on-road cycle lane rather than nothing at all. Two, the more cyclists are around, then eventualy even Canberra drivers will take notice of where they are, if only to protect their duco.

not looking behind in green lanes… stop lights… helmets… registration… road costs…

Road users are supposed to drive safely, and that includes cyclists. They’re supposed to change lanes safely and wear (seat belts) or (helmets) by already existing laws. If they don’t then they can and are fined now if they’re caught in the act. What would registration do? Costs? I doubt green paint costs that much more than white paint, and I doubt even more that bikes wear that many potholes in the road. Police can and do already stop cyclists if they wish – they don’t need a registration number. Are road users going to ring up to complain about cyclists behaviour with a rego nmber? Probably, and i’m sure they’ll be handled by the same lucky cop who takes calls from people with car regos and complaints too, and will do the same thing – zip.

If you use the cyclist on-road cycling – your a car.
no, you’re a cyclist road user with just as much right to be there as the car/truck/bus beside you – and like them you’ve a responsibility to obey teh road rules and ride safely.. and a right to expect car drivers to make at least a token effort to be aware of your presence and drive in a safe manner. Just like car drivers expect semi trailer drivers to do for them.

as i have stated before, cyclists are intrinsically selfish.

the whole cycle lane green zones are but one manifestation of this.

i dont think teh cycle lanes are long for this world. change of govt/minister and pedal power may not have the access they have now.

Sorry to bore you both. I don’t remember holding your head to the screen to make you read it.

Yes, I second T-Bone…Can you guys come up with something more original? Surfers vs. jetskis on Lake Burley Griffin? Koalas vs. Kangaroos in Tidbinbilla?

Cars vs Cyclists, again….bored with the subject and arguments. (read other threads for details)