Booked for a yellow light !

There was a story on here not that long ago about a bloke contesting a caution for running a yellow light. He ended up with an upgrade to a fine and loss of points. http://the-riotact.com/?p=4613 follow the link.

The whole yellow light issue tends to get peoples backs up a bit on the old Riot. It appears most people have the idea that running yellow/red lights, tailgating, sitting 10km over the speed limit are good driving habits. Imagine if coppers started handing out tickets for doing 3km over the speed limit. Holy shite the sky would fall down.

Try this next time you approach a yellow – look in your rear vision mirror as well – unsafe to stop also means a vehicle with less braking prowess might be right up your clacker and unable to do so.

I would be interested in the opinion of a neutral traffic engineer regarding the timing of the lights at the Hindmarsh/Yamba intersection. In particular, the length of yellow given traffic on Hindmarsh heading towards Woden – and under the watchful eye of the speed/red light camera.

At 80k’s, the envelope for continuing/stopping appears to be measured in milliseconds. Stopping from the speed limit requires a certain distance, exacerbated by the downhill aspect of the road. I do not believe that this time/distance has been correctly built into the lights timing. The orange light is too short! Braking has to be heavier than would normally be considered comfortable.

Any miscalculation is likely to result in either a traffic fine, or a rearender. I have come very close to the latter on a couple of occasions.

Tough break Luke…but you put your hands up..kudos to you. Not many like you around

> Not surprising that cops are out doing this. Heaven forbid they actually do something useful (like chasing the car thieves in Civic)…<

Actually “VYBerlina”, methinks if most people paid attention to what they were doing on the road and not breaking the law, the cops could probably spend more time catching car thieves in Civic…

id have to take a day off work, pay for my own legal advice etc. a day off work would cost me more than the fine straight away.

i try to leave at least 15 – 20 metre gap (depending on my speed) between me and the car in front, try and keep that distance in peak hour on a major road. my old van full of gear clocked in just under 3 tonnes and with that kinda weight it’s bloody hard to pull up in a rush. i was already on the breaks coming into the intersection and locked them up a bitt over 10 metres away from him. i was happy to admitt the accident was my fault, at the end of the day i didnt leave enough room to stop, even though leaving enough room is nearly impossible given canberra drivers in peak hour. i was happy to pay all the insurance bills. i felt the fine was a bitt of a kick in the guts given the circumstances, but at the end of the day it was only money and a few points. no one was hurt. i dont think i could have reacted any quicker or done anything else to avoid the accident, i can only imagine nowdays the chap infront of me looks in his mirror before he locks them up for an amber light. i dont ever tailgate, im patient and polite on the roads as i cant stand the way so many dickheads drive and i dont want to be one of them.

“if i had taken it to court it would have ended up costing me more even if i got off the fine.”

If you win in court you do not have to pay any court or legal fees nor the ticket… Don’t know why you think otherwise. It would definetly help you money wise and record wise!

Tailgaters, I had another this morning, from Qbn to the Airport. I was behind a line of cars tootling along at around 80 or 90, and had left a nice gap, as there’s the odd roo, or sudden stop as traffic suddnely builds up and stops. And this van was right up my clacker. I mean, what did he expect me to do? Did he feel I wasn’t fulfilling my share of Tailgating Duties?

Lost him on the line of airport roundabouts. One thing I’ve noticed, is tailgaters are incredibly skillful drivers in a straight line, but have difficulty with curves. They can press that accelorator so well, all other drivers should just clear the way. But when there’s a curve, they apparently have to press their brakes!

luke79, i was under the impression that you should leave a gap to the vehicle in front to be able to stop in time, whatever reason – even if none – that vehicle stops… what if they saw a child run out in front of them, even if you didn’t. i shouldn’t be complaining about it, just count, ‘one thousand and one, one thousand and two’, then passing where they were when you started – or move back.

i can’t stand tailgaters – for the very reason you describe!

So we’ll be seeing even more cars doing 5 metre 4-wheel skids up to the white line on an orange light (especially where there are red light cameras) … luckily I have ABS so all I have to worry about is the cars behind me braking in time too.

All in the name of safety.

Obviously you are meant to stop at orange lights if they are orange as you are driving up to them.

But if the light turns orange just as your car gets to the traffic lights you can’t stop, and if you tried you’d be in the intersection anyway. So it isn’t always possible to stop on orange lights. If we did have to, then everyone would have to drive up to traffic lights doing about 10KM as if they were give way signs.

So it seems a tough thing to prove either way.

I’ll be interested to hear the outcome of this one.

I guess the upshot of all this is…. stop at orange lights. If you don’t, the police will Get You. Stick to tailgating, as that’s no longer enforced.

Or perhaps this pinging of orange-light-runners is a crafty way to discourage tailgating, as being stuck on someone’s tail as they execute a sudden stop at an orange will result in even more rear-enders.

Aurelius – wow i’d love your help…. Your honour, I have absolutley no knowledge of the incident in question, but it happened this way because he said so…..guilty.

NathanaelB – I agree brother, DestructionDerby 101 go on. See you on the other side lol.

How do you know that is what happened…were you there? How do know that the driver didn’t notice the lights and sirens until the un-marked vehicle had caught up behind it (which often happens) Just because someone posts something on an internet blog, doesn’t mean that is exactly what happend. The original poster may not have told the entire story (un-intentionally) or may not have noticed certain things that can change the way a incident played out entirely.

So … why do we bother having a yellow/orange/amber light at all then? Should just be green and red, based on what you’re all saying …

Not only should you contest it, I’d help anyone who was in such a situation prepare for the court battle.

Where did I mention lights and sirens? Of course that’s different, but it’s not what happened here. The post says it was an unmarked car that turned on their lights after the intersection to pull them over. So as far as the rest of the world is concerned, until THAT POINT, it was a regular car running a yellow/red light.

Police have emergency lights and sirens and would only proceed into the intersection, when safe to do so (ie, applying the lights and sirens seeing that everyone has noticed and stopeed, then they proceed)….Does your car have lights and sirens, mine doesn’t. If Police did not have these exemptions then traffic enforcement would not happen, as well as the other emergency applications.

I fail to see your tunnel vision comparison of person running amber/red light with no warning as opposed to emergency vehicle with lights and sirens activated warning drivers of going through the intersection with due care, is the same in any respect.

It may be reasonable, as the vehicle that has run the lights, may not be apprehended and be lost in traffic or turn off a side street and cannot be intercepted, this is provided it is safe and reasonable to do so of course.

Mr Waffle – I suggest you check the Australian Road Rules – specifically rule 305 – emergency vehicle exemption.

I fail to see how running a red light to issue a ticket for a yellow light counts as “reasonable”. In your own words-

“breaking the law by running amber/redlights that can cause SERIOUS INJURY and even DEATH”

So it’s reasonable for the police to -in your own words- risk causing serious injury and even death in the name of a $250 ticket???

Get real, how on earth did you pass your written learner’s test if you didn’t know that you have to stop on yellow.

Yellow?? And all this time I thought it was orange!

I was always taught that when approaching traffic lights

Green: Was Caution, light may change
Yellow: Stop
Red: Sit and think about whats for dinner tonight

Makes it hard if you travel over the border from Qbn. Got abused by a Deanes bus driver for stopping on yellow one morning while I was going up the main street of Qbn. I had the brakes to stop while he did not and had to swerve the bus to avoid me.

Very hard driving between ACT,NSW and Vic where the rules may be the same but the application is different.

Quote: “Not surprising that cops are out doing this. Heaven forbid they actually do something useful (like chasing the car thieves in Civic)…”

Hmmm… giving tickets to drivers breaking the law by running amber/redlights that can cause SERIOUS INJURY and even DEATH ………..or chase stolen cars, where by chasing the stolen cars, could cause a fatality….let me think…..

Yeah your right, running amber/red lights are not serious at all. Lets not try and stop injury/fatility by going after (real criminals) instead potentially causing one. ??

If you do the wrong thing and get caught, cop the repercussions, stop yur whinging and learn from the experience. Too many people these days want to blame everyone else for thier wrong doings. What ever happened to taking responsibility for your actions.

Dont get me wrong, if you/we have genuinely been “wronged” we all have the right to fight it.

I’d think twice about contesting the fine. As a young journalism student I had to practice my court reporting by spending a week sitting in on cases including a lot of contested tickets and fines in the magistrates court. The police are very good at doing this – they know more, are very prepared, use the right jargon, always have a witness and I didn’t see a single case where the complainant didn’t wind up having to pay the fine plus the all court costs.

I was pulled over once for being a little late through a turning arrow as it went orange and then red. It was during light rain, so good visibility but wet road, and as I approached the turn, I slowed quite a bit, but then when it went orange I proceeded. In retrospect, I had slowed suffiencetly by then that I probably could have stopped, but my instinct was to not put my foot on the brake, but cruise through the intersection.

When the police man asked my why I didn’t stop, I replied polietly that I had felt it was unsafe to do so due to the wet road. He then issued me with a warning (an actualy infringment ticket, but with $0.00 in the pay here section, so it is on my driving record). Fair call I thought, I have been warned that I was cutting it a bit close, the cops done his job, everybody happy.

take it to court, you’ll get off

Not surprising that cops are out doing this. Heaven forbid they actually do something useful (like chasing the car thieves in Civic)…

The ‘wrong-doer’ (nice one Lenient) also has a much, MUCH better idea as to whether or not their car could be stopped SAFELY in this instance.

>I vaguely recall something about being innocent until proven guilty
>Having a witness in the car will certainly help.

Didn’t suggest otherwise, but the point is the police will have documented evidence (probably independant reports from both officers), the wrong-doer just has his word. So from the outset the weight of evidence rests with the police.

There is an age-old adage in the ticket-writing-section of the coppers: “If ya can’t win it in court, don’t write it”. Maybe it was a loonngg yellow? A bit of acceleration as it changed to BRIGHT yellow? Cop could not believe he did it right in front of an ‘unmarked’ [??!! your mate is blind too?] Had to be something to catch copper’s attention that much. They do not have to write up pissant stuff as there are so many real good ones out there. Oh, and the evidence required in court by the officer is that he was on the same side as the changed(ing) light as the court will not assume what color the light was if he was on another corner. Traffic light tickets (not camera) are one of the most difficult to win in court (as are not giving-way-to-pedestrians on a crossing [but missing them]) so are usually not given out unless obvious, blatant and have an element of danger. There is a lot of discretion to be had by the guy/gal with the police pen. So gotta ask why he ran a red to stop your mate? More info: the pointless questions asked by coppers at traffic stops are to lecit comments of guilt, ie: “Why didn’t you stop?” Most – if not all – responses will certainly not help your case. Even more info: A full lock-up to stop at an yellow light will definitely get you a ticket…. think on that one!

Yellow (actually it’s amber) means STOP. Not slow, but STOP. If it is not safe to do so then you may proceed.

Any idiot with a drivers licence would have learnt this whilst on their L’s for as long as traffic lights have been around.

Luke 79,
Did you leave a gap big enough for you to stop safely – even in an emergency situation, like driver in front stopping for no apparent reason?

If you are approaching an intersection and it changes to an amber light, you are required to stop – If safe to do so. This obviously has to take into account how close you are to the stop line as to waht is considered safe. I would suggest that if the lights change to red whilst you are still within the intersection (ie, haven’t passed the line on the other side) you had time to stop safely.

Alot of people falsely believe that “while the light is still displaying amber, I can still go into the intersection (no matter how long it has displayed amber) WRONG. Of course, if it is unsafe to stop, you are ok.

Mr Waffle – I suggest you check the Australian Road Rules – specifically rule 305 – emergency vehicle exemption. Another point, depending on the time of day/night, this particular offence occurred, a person can see what colour lights are from almost anywhere at the intersection (at night generally).

I do note some CT story regarding the vehicle’s pinged for having thier vehicles past the white line. If I remember correctly, the pictures I saw, all the vehicle’s were at least half a car length over the white line. Stopped or not, the law states that you must come to a stop at or before the white line, not half a car length over the line. Vehicles being half a car length over the line is actually in the area that pedestians are walking or would be walking. If you cannot bring your vehicle to a stop before or AT the white line, then you may to need to re-think your ability to drive a motor vehicle.

Wow what a surprise another retarted Cop filling his ticket quota.

You cant beat the system. Take it to court and you will lose. Just have to take it on the chin. Good luck if you do challenge it though.

Where was the cop car that they was able to see it was a yellow light? You could only know that if you’re following. If they was following, they ran a yellow (or possibly red by that point) light! Break the law to enforce the law…

From the ACT Road Rules Handbook:

“Yellow circle light warns that the red signal is about to come on. You must stop at
the stop line and not enter the intersection or junction. You may enter the intersection
if you are so close to the stop line that a sudden stop might cause an accident.”

Most people take the risk and don’t get caught, I know I have, it sounds like your partner took the gamble and was unlucky. Someone did exactly the same thing infront of me a couple of weeks ago at a turn signal, I had plenty of time to stop and so did they, the police divisional van stopped to turn left on my front left observed the other traffic stop and the other vehicle continue (the light changed to red as they were 3/4 out of the intersection), then did a U-turn and went after them. The chances of getting out of the ticket are slim as the officer’s observation skills take in more than just the orange light colour in those situations.

gooterz said :

I thought it was that if it went red, before ur back wheels are over the first white line. Thats how the speed cameras work, due to where the sensors are.

No it doesn’t! There was an article in The Chronicle the other week about some Gungahlian Mercedes owner that got pinged by the red light camera for stopping with his front wheels just over the white line at the Gungahlin Dr/Gundaroo Dr intersection at Gungahlin. He thought the same.

i had a goose lock up his car for a yellow light which in turn made me lock up my work van which doesnt stop too well in a hurry because of it’s weight.. anyways i ran up his ass and i ended up with a ticket for $280 not to mention the excess for insurance. i didnt think the driver in front of me stopped if it was safe to do so, the fact an accident occured after his skidding pretty much proved my point, but anyways i just copped it and paid the fine. if i had taken it to court it would have ended up costing me more even if i got off the fine. i dont have a problem with cops or anything like that just sometimes you get the odd cop who is out to make a dickhead of himself.

Lenient said :

everyone who bothered to listened to their driving instructor, also this is Australia wide… stop if safe to do so. If you contest, you will to demonstrate that it wasn’t.

Do the crime, do the time

I vaguely recall something about being innocent until proven guilty being part of our legal system. Having a witness in the car will certainly help.

>Who else knew that you had to STOP at a yellow in ACT ?

everyone who bothered to listened to their driving instructor, also this is Australia wide… stop if safe to do so. If you contest, you will to demonstrate that it wasn’t.

Do the crime, do the time

I thought it was that if it went red, before ur back wheels are over the first white line. Thats how the speed cameras work, due to where the sensors are.

Contest the fine, no question. Yellow means stop if you can safely do so.

ta for the info guys, will check out the links and try help her beat the rap as it seemed pretty harsh to me.

ditto on the ‘slow to stop’ rule – still me belief.

What really shocked me though was the fact it appeared on the printed infringement as ‘a yellow light’.

See rule 57 in:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/p6.pdf

Ask the issuing cop if he will state in court that you could have safely stopped before reaching the white line.

Oh I note that white lines are NOT mandatory

Yellow means slow to stop. If you are travelling at the speed limit, on see a yellow, you should in a normalised car be able to stop at the white line before the signal goes red.

Contest the fine.

I thought that yellow meant “stop if safe to do so”.

Check the Australian Road Rules (available on the internet http://www.legislation.act.gov.au).

I remember the nice young lady copper at the Belconnen traffic school always told us yellow meant stop. Then we would hoon around on our BMXs and knock the little kids off their bikes.

I thought you were fine as long as the light didn’t turn red at any point while you were in the intersection. (A friend once got pulled over as they said the light went red just as he exited the intersection.)

the cop must’ve been having a very bad day.