Comrades! The plastic bag reduction target is -80%

Back in 2005, Australia used about 4 billion plastic bags per annum – yes, 4 BILLION (actually, 3.92 billion according to govt figures). Then the green bags became popular. We’re, 3 years later now using about 5 billion a year (according to Planet Ark).

Plastic bags should simply be banned. All disposable bags, and other packaging for that matter, should be made from recycled materials, not non-renewable OIL. However, no government has the balls to stand up to industry and make it happen.

And things remain the same.

Will the levy include the plastic bags supermarkets provide to put your fruit and vegetables in or will they start providing paper bags again? I would have thought this would be a good use for recycled paper.

I have never understood why these plastic bags appear to be considered less evil than the larger plastic bags they put your groceries in which can be re-used as bin liners.

Complaining about the cost of paper bags being prohibitive?! But does the enviroment have a cost!

[/sarcasm]

Yet another useless Government initiative to appear to most that they are actually doing something. How about we teach people the appropriate uses for plastic bags and when it is and isn’t a good idea to get them (eg; one item at the checkout, though it does depend on the itme).

But noooo that takes time (eg: longer than a particular Government would be around and thus unable to claim credit) and a lot more effort then just slapping on a levy, smiling and saying “look people, we do good!”

PS: Johnboy, I tried closing my first sentence with a proper html sarcasm tag ala internetz and it actually recognised it?

I considered the water point and I concede I of course have no ultimate solution (recycling household water is an idea off the top of my head but then there are arguements about cleanliness and cost). My point is that there is an infuriating mindset of not making any effort because it’s painful or inconvenient or not saving the whole environment in one go. Also, I did not try to imply that old people are selfish and thankfully out of the way soon – rather, that everyone is responsible (young people often even more so) but I hope that progress can be made in attitudes, as we have seen in other areas in recent history.

Hzbkt wants us to clean out our bins once a week. Inside bin 2 or 3 times and wheely bin once every week. Now that’s a waste of water and we can’t have that. Don’t do it and things start to smell like the rubbish tip, the one that’s generating methane gas being used to produce electricity. Only archaelogists are going to dig that up. So I use shopping bags. I will not use less plastic but would prefer to use free biodegradable ones if the supermarkets supply them. But don’t worry Hzbkt, old selfish people like me will be dead soon, by compulsory euthanasia to get rid of obstructionist foggies a likely possibility. More biofuel

I agree with most that reducing/eradicating plastic bags is a rather meaningless exercise in itself, however, most people can acknowledge that at some point in the futur we will need to have a society free of waste if we want any society at all. So plastic bags is an important first step because it will introduce the idea of sacrifice for the environment (and future generations), which is so impossible for the vast majority of people to comprehend.

I am utterly astounded by the selfishness of people worried they will have to buy bin liners, for example. How about thinking outside the square and coming up with ways to avoid the biner liner altogether? Newspaper was suggested above – or what’s wrong with not using one at all and just cleaning out the bin every week or so. Inconvenient? Sure – but worth it surely if it leads to momentum towards other waste reduction initiatives, and therefore a better life for the hundreds of billions of people who have to inhabit this planet after you.

I’m 17 years old and I really hope to see a huge shift in attitudes on this front over my lifetime. Without trying to be overly offensive, what I’m seeing at the moment is beyond shocking.

Work doesn’t empty the bins at peoples desk

apart from the missing apostrophe [; )] you still have a bin at each desk?? what about co-mingled waste stations, with recycling/compost/hard waste facilities in the shared areas/kitchens??

and a wiser man than that, holier, said: remember, wherever you go, there you are…

Now here’s a question, will this include take-away?

John Lennon once said ‘A man with a handhul of takeaways is either very hungry, or knows someone that’s very hungry.’

True, but a wiser man said:

“A man with a handful of takeaways has got warm grease running up both sleeves”

Thumper paper bags probably cost more than 10c a piece.

We looked at the best alternative for a shop I was involved with, and paper was just too expensive. We ended up with biodegradable plastic bags. But they only degrade if left out in the sun, so it doesn’t work for landfill.

CT today says a 79% reduction in plastic bags was achieved in areas of Victoria that tried a levy. It will be so interesting to see how it goes in Canberra.

Normally I worry how things will affect the poor – eg increasing water prices, but I really don’t think 10c for a plastic bag is going to send anyone broke – they can always use a string bag or something instead. And in the olden days (like the 70s), people used to wrap their rubbish up in newspaper.

Tezza said :

It is a tax on the poor. like many other green policies, it assumes that everyone in our society can affort “that little bit more” to make our planet greener.

Unfortunately, there are those who do not have “that little bit more”.

This is a big problem particularly in Canberra. Too many affluent people who can’t see past their own circumstances. Sullivan from Actew says only 15% more for water. Gentleman says only 5% more for electricity due to a few relatively useless solar photovoltaic cells for relatively rich private investors. All increasing with inflation. There is no way I will pay 10 cents for a plastic shopping bag, probably a 1000% mark up. This tax will go to for ‘environmental initiatives’. If like most they will not examined to determine if the cost-benefit is positive or not. Anyway, I haven’t seen very many plastic supermarket bags lying around in Canberra or in our water ways. Like most other people, I will have to pay for bin liners.

But this is Canberra Thumper and we don’t have plastic bags in our juniper bushes… Or are we worried our plastic bags are going to damage the ACT’s marine life?

Where are all these plastic bags that are meant to be poluting the ACT? Seems to me they are going to land fill with our the reast of the rubbish, including all of the packaging that most things we buy come in. Why therefore are plastic bags such a problem?

The whole plastic bag issue is about appearing to take action when really not much is being done.

It is a tax on the poor. like many other green policies, it assumes that everyone in our society can affort “that little bit more” to make our planet greener.

Unfortunately, there are those who do not have “that little bit more”.

I support this. I am amazed at the people at the express lane who want a bag to hold one item! I’m not sure what we’ll do for our rubbish, I fail to fill a supermarket bag every week. But I’m sure there’s a better way. In hte US, they ask if you want plastic or paper, and have the old fashioned flat-bottom bags of thick brown paper. And Americans are crap at recycling and not supporting over packaged goods.

Maybe we could use the recycled paper to make bin liners. Shopping bags are bad and we have to do something.

I wonder if the garbo’s will appreciate the smell of unbagged food scraps and other waste being emptied into their trucks.

Once again poor use of economics to try and create a disincentive to carry out a habitual behaviour. The problem being that by adding 10c per bag or any amount it will not create the desired 80% decrease because for these things to work the impact has to be painful and swift on the wallet ie you have to drive people to breaking point and why does our government, our recently elected members for instance, want to drive people to breaking point economically just to stop a few plastic bags?? You are the government if you want to reduce their use ‘legislate’ a mandatory reduction and replacement with another product. Simple. Adding miniscule costs to people simply adds straws to the camel and eventually the camel (ie the people) will break but the results won’t be what you placed the straws there to achieve.

And where oh where was this three weeks ago in the 278 election promises made and as yet undelivered??

deye said :

What a load of crap.

I wonder if they will charge it on the “biodegradable” plastic bags.

I guess purchases of plastic garbage bags will increase. Every bag I’ve used for the rubbish bin over the last 15 years or so has been a plastic shopping bag.

The fee will be charged on them too because the “biodegradable” claim is false. There has not been a truly biodegradable plastic bag invented, the bags do break down over a long period of time but they don’t degrade into something that is safe for the environment,

Martlark said :

I for one don’t welcome our new plastic bag less overlords.

Am I now expected to buy:

bin liners
dog poo grabbers
dirty clothes carriers
rubbish bags?

I’d like to see how many giant green sea turtles are saved in the ACT by this green wash!

Oh boohoo yes you will have to pay for them too like every other product. The prices you pay for the supermarket don’t actually reflect the cost of that plastic bag you use, it’s mostly absorbed by them and reduces profits.

Trouble is with Australians is they think it’s their god given right to get their free plastic bag with their shopping. Sit in the supermarket for a while and observe the people wanting a bag for their only one of the following things: pack of smokes, chocolate bar, bottle with a handle, chewing gum or bottle of milk. It’s bloody rediculous and I would bet that the majority of these bags aren’t going to any further use.

It’s about time people were made to properly pay for the bags they use, sure the number of rubbish bags used may increase, but you will probably think twice about how much you’re actually putting in them before dumping them in the bin.

I think it’s a good idea.

It really doesn’t cost much to actually buy bin bags, or tiny plastic bags for dog poo, and if they aren’t free people will think twice about using about 3 bags where one would do.

This is just silly. A lot of the plastic bags you can get these days are biodegradable. Also every plastic bag I get I just use as rubbish bags. So now if I still lived in Canberra that is I would have to buy extra plastic garbage bags.

Sounds good to me. I’ve noticed that hardly anyone wants a plastic bag at Borders since they introduced a 10c charge for them.

I do believe they will ban sliced bread next, it is in the same category.

Better the plastic bag less overlords you know than the ones you don’t

Calm down everyone. The work on this has been going on for a long time – before Rudd even.

http://www.ephc.gov.au/ephc/plastic_bags.html

Don’t you just love it when the politicians jump in to take the credit for the work of long-suffering public servants.

I for one don’t welcome our new plastic bag less overlords.

Am I now expected to buy:

bin liners
dog poo grabbers
dirty clothes carriers
rubbish bags?

I’d like to see how many giant green sea turtles are saved in the ACT by this green wash!

I don’t for one minute believe the environmental BS the greens and their followers the labor party are spouting.

However, as an average bloke who spends half his week in Bunnings and hasn’t purchased a single bag from them since they’ve had their levy, I reckon I’ll live without free plastic bags from shops!

Top clip Jonathon! – bring back the Gruen Transfer, I say!

There is a legitimate place and use for plastic bags
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=npf6qns0JhU

Now here’s a question, will this include take-away?

John Lennon once said ‘A man with a handhul of takeaways is either very hungry, or knows someone that’s very hungry.’

This is a point where I can hijack about the title. A reduction of minus 80% is really an increase of 80%. I really should have grabbed a marker pen and defaced Esprit’s sale signs which used to say “UP TO -75% OFF”. Yeah, like a price increase of 75% is something you brag about.

It’ll be interesting to see how they achieve this. I’m not sure it’s much beyond a token effort, but oh well. Isn’t that always the way with any kind of political announcement?

Pity the politicians can’t read the comprehensive report by the Productivity Commission that confirms that this exercise is economically not viable and has little impact on the environment.

But it sure has plenty of the smug factor for Simon The Sad.

Pah, what am I going to use for bin liners if I don’t get me free carrier bags?

Australia has had it too good (and abused it) for too long. After traveling the world, I’ve noticed that Australia is in the minority of countries where we get plastic bags gratis. And has already been stated on here, this is abused. Not only abused by customers, but I am often astonished when I buy a couple of chocolate bars and some tic tacs and asked if I want a bag for them.

As with water restrictions, high fuel prices…and plastic bags, it take finacial force for humans to think about responsible alternatives.

While I also have always used plastic shopping bags for my garbage bins at home, I’ll just continue to do what I’ve been doing over the last year and use the big reusable bags 90% of the time, and do an occasional shop bagging with plastic and pay the extra…and smile. That or I’ll just start buying rolls of plastic bags for home garbage. Whichever is the cheapest.

3) Conventional wisdom. They offer you a bag, so you take it.

Sammy said :

The number of times each week that I see people, and paradoxically particularly young people, ask for a plastic bag when buying one item, makes me think that this type of initiative could just work.

Often they’ll ask for a plastic bag when buying a single item that is itself already a bag, like a bag of chips, or a bag of bread.

I once asked a friend, who asked for a bag when purchasing a single bag of chips, why they asked for a plastic bag when the item they were purchasing was already a bag, and they said that they wanted the bag because the supermarket included the prices of the bags in the price of the goods, and therefore he’d paid for it, and therefore he wanted it.

Two other possibilities.
1) Work doesn’t empty the bins at peoples desk (cost saving measure) and they are rarely relined. Hence grab a bag at the shop to be your bin bag.
2) You’re going into other shops and will add more items to said bag.

Sammy said :

I use plastic shopping bags for my rubbish.

I use about 10% of the amount that are brought back from the shop as rubbish bags.

I’ll be happy to pay 10 or 20 cents a week to buy a couple of plastic bags to use for rubbish.

The majority of my shopping goes into resuable bags (they hold more, are stronger and more comfortable to carry), whenever I don’t have them with me the plastic ones that result are used for the bin.

The number of times each week that I see people, and paradoxically particularly young people, ask for a plastic bag when buying one item, makes me think that this type of initiative could just work.

Often they’ll ask for a plastic bag when buying a single item that is itself already a bag, like a bag of chips, or a bag of bread.

I once asked a friend, who asked for a bag when purchasing a single bag of chips, why they asked for a plastic bag when the item they were purchasing was already a bag, and they said that they wanted the bag because the supermarket included the prices of the bags in the price of the goods, and therefore he’d paid for it, and therefore he wanted it.

An interesting point deye. I’m not familiar with the science behind ‘biodegradable’ plastic bags so I wonder whether the rationale for reducing plastic bags does not apply to these bags. If it does not apply, will there be a charge?

I think not having an exemption would be an environmental mistake. They should not destroy a potential incentive to transfer to the biodegradable bags.

Going off that, how is this policed? Will stores have to lodge their plastic bag orders with the ACT Government?

I use plastic shopping bags for my rubbish.

I use about 10% of the amount that are brought back from the shop as rubbish bags.

I’ll be happy to pay 10 or 20 cents a week to buy a couple of plastic bags to use for rubbish.

What a load of crap.

I wonder if they will charge it on the “biodegradable” plastic bags.

I guess purchases of plastic garbage bags will increase. Every bag I’ve used for the rubbish bin over the last 15 years or so has been a plastic shopping bag.

I wonder if Borders will put this government levy on top of their existing private plastic bag charge.