Don't you know who I am son? Better make it a caution when it's a superintendent?

Exfed2, honestly, conversing with you at any level is just painful.

– Which part of my paragraph didn’t make sense?
– You’re right, I didn’t say who it would be a higher priority for, but if you look at the context of my reply, it would be clear (to anyone with a brain, anyway) that I was suggesting it might be a higher priority for ACLEI (again showing your lack of comprehension).

“And BTW with your criticism of others grammatical errors and posts you couldn’t be in the job. You would have driven everyone nuts and been sent packin ga long time ago”

Really? Please look back at some of your posts. I rarely pick on the writing of others, as I am far from perfect, but I’m not surprised you’re an ‘ex’. You can barely construct a coherent sentence. I can only wonder at what the quality of your work was like.

Special G said :

If you can’t work out the difference between a traffic offence and a criminal offence it is a good thing you are ex-feds.

Part of the story is that Grimm didn’t admit to the speed Curie maintains he was doing. Which was checked with a non-certified speedo. Curie could have sent it to Court but he didn’t.

+1

You keep talking about “facts” ….. it didnt go to court, (which you should have done if you felt it could be proven) all you have is an “allegation”

You come accross as a bitter, twisted, ex-employee with a generous amount of sour grape syndrome. If you trully believe in your convictions, place your concerns/complaints with the relevant depts/organisations and let them investigate (which you appear to have done). Coming on here whinging and airing “allegations” not “facts” is not helping your cause. Just an observation.

Tooks said :

exfed2 said :

Why do you keep harping on about the chocolate bar? Stealing is not comparable to exceeding the speed limit. A stolen chocolate bar would be higher on their priority list, I’d imagine.

Tooks you have to be joking! lol stealing is not comparable to exceeding the speed limit by more than 40kph…….. by anyone let alone an off duty AFP member. And in your opinion a stolen chocolate bar would be higher in priority for police than exceed speed by this margin? Thanks Tooks for sharing your thoughts, I need to go have a laugh now 🙂

I never suggested a stolen chocolate bar was higher priority for police – I said it was probably higher priority for ACLEI though…

The sad thing is I get the feeling a lot of people are laughing every time you post and you clearly can’t even tell when people are taking the piss out of you.

Tooks you have some nerve 🙂 Your entire first paragraph does not make sense.

‘I said it was probably higher priority for ACLEI though…’

No you didn’t. You didn’t specify who it would be a higher priority for! Help us please. If you can’t even remember what you posted a few posts earlier then I think I would be the last person people would be laughing at.

And BTW with your criticism of others grammatical errors and posts you couldn’t be in the job. You would have driven everyone nuts and been sent packin ga long time ago 🙂

If you can’t work out the difference between a traffic offence and a criminal offence it is a good thing you are ex-feds.

Part of the story is that Grimm didn’t admit to the speed Curie maintains he was doing. Which was checked with a non-certified speedo. Curie could have sent it to Court but he didn’t.

I can’t even work out which is which anymore. Same non-coherant arguement. It is easier to address Exfeds and Exfeds2 as one person.

As I mentioned in the other thread – Mully award.

exfed2 said :

Why do you keep harping on about the chocolate bar? Stealing is not comparable to exceeding the speed limit. A stolen chocolate bar would be higher on their priority list, I’d imagine.

Tooks you have to be joking! lol stealing is not comparable to exceeding the speed limit by more than 40kph…….. by anyone let alone an off duty AFP member. And in your opinion a stolen chocolate bar would be higher in priority for police than exceed speed by this margin? Thanks Tooks for sharing your thoughts, I need to go have a laugh now 🙂

Once again, your second sentence makes no sense and your comprehension skills are abysmal. What I was saying was a traffic offence and a criminal offence aren’t the same thing. I never suggested a stolen chocolate bar was higher priority for police – I said it was probably higher priority for ACLEI though…

The sad thing is I get the feeling a lot of people are laughing every time you post and you clearly can’t even tell when people are taking the piss out of you.

Spideydog said :

exfed2 said :

vg said :

exfed2 said :

WOW, even I am suprised. Over two weeks and three follow up emails and still no response. Considering ACLEI was setup to oversee complaints against AFP and ACC it’s now obvious they must be inundated with other complaints 🙂

No, they just have a prioritisation system, and something categorised as ‘crackers’ goes to the bottom of the pile

Thats right VG we all know what your opinion on police breaking the law is. So answer this, if a complaint re this matter is in your opinion low or ‘crackers’ what would your opinion be on an officer stealing a chocolate bar from a store?

I don’t think vg was saying the ‘complaint’ was crackers.

Well Spidey what on earth was old VG refering to?

‘and something categorised as ‘crackers’ goes to the bottom of the pile’

The only thing they would have received was the complaint and that’s the only thing that would go to the bottom of the pile…….. damn you guys love dodging facts to avoid the truth the truth. Stay straight and focused for once instead of the childish misdirection. Don’t worry you’ll all be able to catch up for drinks and compare ‘funny’ comebacks to the facts at hand

Why do you keep harping on about the chocolate bar? Stealing is not comparable to exceeding the speed limit. A stolen chocolate bar would be higher on their priority list, I’d imagine.

Tooks you have to be joking! lol stealing is not comparable to exceeding the speed limit by more than 40kph…….. by anyone let alone an off duty AFP member. And in your opinion a stolen chocolate bar would be higher in priority for police than exceed speed by this margin? Thanks Tooks for sharing your thoughts, I need to go have a laugh now 🙂

Spideydog said :

exfed2 said :

vg said :

exfed2 said :

WOW, even I am suprised. Over two weeks and three follow up emails and still no response. Considering ACLEI was setup to oversee complaints against AFP and ACC it’s now obvious they must be inundated with other complaints 🙂

No, they just have a prioritisation system, and something categorised as ‘crackers’ goes to the bottom of the pile

Thats right VG we all know what your opinion on police breaking the law is. So answer this, if a complaint re this matter is in your opinion low or ‘crackers’ what would your opinion be on an officer stealing a chocolate bar from a store?

I don’t think vg was saying the ‘complaint’ was crackers.

Exactly.

exfed2 said :

vg said :

exfed2 said :

WOW, even I am suprised. Over two weeks and three follow up emails and still no response. Considering ACLEI was setup to oversee complaints against AFP and ACC it’s now obvious they must be inundated with other complaints 🙂

No, they just have a prioritisation system, and something categorised as ‘crackers’ goes to the bottom of the pile

Thats right VG we all know what your opinion on police breaking the law is. So answer this, if a complaint re this matter is in your opinion low or ‘crackers’ what would your opinion be on an officer stealing a chocolate bar from a store?

I don’t think vg was saying the ‘complaint’ was crackers.

exfed2 said :

vg said :

exfed2 said :

WOW, even I am suprised. Over two weeks and three follow up emails and still no response. Considering ACLEI was setup to oversee complaints against AFP and ACC it’s now obvious they must be inundated with other complaints 🙂

No, they just have a prioritisation system, and something categorised as ‘crackers’ goes to the bottom of the pile

Thats right VG we all know what your opinion on police breaking the law is. So answer this, if a complaint re this matter is in your opinion low or ‘crackers’ what would your opinion be on an officer stealing a chocolate bar from a store?

Why do you keep harping on about the chocolate bar? Stealing is not comparable to exceeding the speed limit. A stolen chocolate bar would be higher on their priority list, I’d imagine.

vg said :

exfed2 said :

WOW, even I am suprised. Over two weeks and three follow up emails and still no response. Considering ACLEI was setup to oversee complaints against AFP and ACC it’s now obvious they must be inundated with other complaints 🙂

No, they just have a prioritisation system, and something categorised as ‘crackers’ goes to the bottom of the pile

Thats right VG we all know what your opinion on police breaking the law is. So answer this, if a complaint re this matter is in your opinion low or ‘crackers’ what would your opinion be on an officer stealing a chocolate bar from a store?

exfed2 said :

WOW, even I am suprised. Over two weeks and three follow up emails and still no response. Considering ACLEI was setup to oversee complaints against AFP and ACC it’s now obvious they must be inundated with other complaints 🙂

No, they just have a prioritisation system, and something categorised as ‘crackers’ goes to the bottom of the pile

exfed2 said :

Because the ‘AFP is untouchable and accountable to no person’

And no reply back from ACLEI as yet re complaint submitted over three weeks ago now. And two more email requests for a response. Someone mentioned a royal comission would need more than the speeding issue, how about flawed investigations by the AFP into their own? Government organisation (ACLEI) spending countless taxpayer dollars on what? Not responding to a simple complaint from a taxpayer

In the 2009-2010 financial year, there were 352 complaints made against ACT Police, which was a drop from 383 the previous year. Of those 352 complaints, 87 were substantiated, which is an increase of 34% from the previous year.

Asking why Grimm didn’t receive a TIN for driving well over the speed limit is a fair question, but saying “the AFP is untouchable and accountable to no person” is off the mark.

Good to see they are not getting away with an under the rug press release

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/australian-federal-police-officer-escapes-traffic-fine/story-e6frf7kx-1225933549943

‘Although the Professional Standards investigation concluded Constable Curie had not been improperly influenced, concerns were raised about why Supt Grimm – an experienced surveillance officer and a co-ordinator at the AFP college in Canberra – escaped with just a warning.’

Then,

“I am unclear as to why a decision was made to issue Co-ordinator Grimm with a (caution) rather than a traffic infringement notice. Co-ordinator Grimm is alleged to have been travelling at a speed in excess of 40km/h over the posted speed limit,” said internal affairs investigator Jenny Russ in the document.

So the investigation revealed no wrong doing? If it wasn’t so serious would be almost laughable. How the can this happen? Because the ‘AFP is untouchable and accountable to no person’

And no reply back from ACLEI as yet re complaint submitted over three weeks ago now. And two more email requests for a response. Someone mentioned a royal comission would need more than the speeding issue, how about flawed investigations by the AFP into their own? Government organisation (ACLEI) spending countless taxpayer dollars on what? Not responding to a simple complaint from a taxpayer

exfed2 said :

WOW, even I am suprised. Over two weeks and three follow up emails and still no response. Considering ACLEI was setup to oversee complaints against AFP and ACC it’s now obvious they must be inundated with other complaints 🙂

Name copier 🙂 You know as well as anyone here you will get “the inside of a donut”!

WOW, even I am suprised. Over two weeks and three follow up emails and still no response. Considering ACLEI was setup to oversee complaints against AFP and ACC it’s now obvious they must be inundated with other complaints 🙂

exfed2 said :

Tooks said :

By the way, I’m all for Police accountability. As they say, unaccountability breeds corruption. If what is suggested in this article actually occurred (officer bullied, TIN withdrawn for no legitimate reason etc), then I’m as against that as anyone, but I get the feeling there’s a lot more to the story than what was reported.

Assumptions about the result of this particular investigation aren’t proof of widespread corruption.

Good to hear, but as is usually the case ‘there must be more to the story, my senior officers would’nt lie to me! Surely not……’ Mate ignorance

And the officer in the OP? Ahh no because by the look of things he was a lot more patient in dealing with these clowns than I would have been

I didn’t say there must be more to the story, I just said that’s the feeling that I get (as you probably know, the media rarely gets the full story). And as you well know, I never suggested ‘senior officers’ wouldn’t lie. You’re putting words into my mouth then calling them ignorant.

BTW, I’m not privy to PRS investigations, however I do know of officers who have been disciplined due to substantiated complaints. Take that as you will.

Tooks said :

By the way, I’m all for Police accountability. As they say, unaccountability breeds corruption. If what is suggested in this article actually occurred (officer bullied, TIN withdrawn for no legitimate reason etc), then I’m as against that as anyone, but I get the feeling there’s a lot more to the story than what was reported.

Assumptions about the result of this particular investigation aren’t proof of widespread corruption.

Good to hear, but as is usually the case ‘there must be more to the story, my senior officers would’nt lie to me! Surely not……’ Mate ignorance

And the officer in the OP? Ahh no because by the look of things he was a lot more patient in dealing with these clowns than I would have been

Tooks said :

exfed2 said :

Tooks, you speak of ignorance.

Your speaking of Police from the same organisation investigating Police, then if they say ‘Nothing wrong here’ we’re suppossed to believe that? Who’s showing their ignorance more here?

I’m trying to remeber the last time the AFP’s ‘Professional Standards’ found a subtantiated complaint against a member.

Who’s showing their ignorance more here? You, and here’s why:

– You are not privy to results of PRS investigations, so you have no idea how many complaints are substantiated and how many aren’t.

Plenty of complaints are substantiated against officers – at PRS level and below.

How do you know I’m not/have been?

And what your second paragraph shows is that according to your logic you must be privy to PRS results….hmmmmmmm

By the way, I’m all for Police accountability. As they say, unaccountability breeds corruption. If what is suggested in this article actually occurred (officer bullied, TIN withdrawn for no legitimate reason etc), then I’m as against that as anyone, but I get the feeling there’s a lot more to the story than what was reported.

Assumptions about the result of this particular investigation aren’t proof of widespread corruption.

exfed2 said :

Tooks, you speak of ignorance.

Your speaking of Police from the same organisation investigating Police, then if they say ‘Nothing wrong here’ we’re suppossed to believe that? Who’s showing their ignorance more here?

I’m trying to remeber the last time the AFP’s ‘Professional Standards’ found a subtantiated complaint against a member.

Who’s showing their ignorance more here? You, and here’s why:

– You are not privy to results of PRS investigations, so you have no idea how many complaints are substantiated and how many aren’t.

Plenty of complaints are substantiated against officers – at PRS level and below.

And yes, painting everyone in such a huge organisation with the same brush is ignorant and idiotic.

Obviously you have an axe to grind (perhaps you are the young officer mentioned in the OP?), but try to be a little bit more objective.

“Your speaking of Police from the same organisation investigating Police, then if they say ‘Nothing wrong here’ we’re suppossed to believe that?”

What’s your reason for not believing it, apart from this newspaper article? (BTW it’s spelled supposed). Ah yes, it’s all one big conspiracy.

exfed2 said :

Tooks, you speak of ignorance.

Your speaking of Police from the same organisation investigating Police, then if they say ‘Nothing wrong here’ we’re suppossed to believe that? Who’s showing their ignorance more here?

I’m trying to remeber the last time the AFP’s ‘Professional Standards’ found a subtantiated complaint against a member.

REPTOID CONSPIRACY!!!

Tooks, you speak of ignorance.

Your speaking of Police from the same organisation investigating Police, then if they say ‘Nothing wrong here’ we’re suppossed to believe that? Who’s showing their ignorance more here?

I’m trying to remeber the last time the AFP’s ‘Professional Standards’ found a subtantiated complaint against a member.

Imwatchinu said :

Tooks said :

Imwatchinu said :

One rule for them, one rule for us….and they wonder why they don’t get much respect, heck with the speeding fine above and this on roadworthness below:

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=140587&highlight=officer

Wow, anti-police sentiment from a bogan site celebrating mediocre ‘muscle’ cars. Not sure what dodgy-looking interstate cop cars have to do with an ACT website story about a speeding ticket.

Der….information is always spread across a range of sites.

Instead of staying dumb things like “anti-police sentiment from a bogan site celebrating mediocre ‘muscle’ cars.” why not comment on the picture alone, which of course backs my claim of ‘one rule for them and one for us’ – that pic is of a police car with EXTREMELY poor tyres. If you were pulled over for this it’d be a red sticker for you and catch a taxi home. Seems either my comment is lost on your judgemental nature or you can’t read either way you lose.

I knew I’d get a bite from that comment (hehe, I’m easily amused at times). No, one picture of a police car in unroadworthy condition (although suspiciously there is no wide shot of the vehicle, so the authenticity can’t be verified) does not mean “one rule for them and one for us’ – unless, of course, your painting all police with the same brush, which would be ignorant in the extreme.

On Professional Standards, I guess if a complaint against an officer is substantiated and that officer is disciplined (including possibly being suspended or sacked), the system works, but if a complaint is unsubstantiated, it’s “oh no, it must be corruption, cops investigating cops blah blah”.

Update…. nothing of course. Even after a followup/push along email. I can imagine the veins bursting on temples the day that complaint came in 🙂

And Imwatchinu, good post well said and spot on

Tooks said :

Imwatchinu said :

One rule for them, one rule for us….and they wonder why they don’t get much respect, heck with the speeding fine above and this on roadworthness below:

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=140587&highlight=officer

Wow, anti-police sentiment from a bogan site celebrating mediocre ‘muscle’ cars. Not sure what dodgy-looking interstate cop cars have to do with an ACT website story about a speeding ticket.

Der….information is always spread across a range of sites.

Instead of staying dumb things like “anti-police sentiment from a bogan site celebrating mediocre ‘muscle’ cars.” why not comment on the picture alone, which of course backs my claim of ‘one rule for them and one for us’ – that pic is of a police car with EXTREMELY poor tyres. If you were pulled over for this it’d be a red sticker for you and catch a taxi home. Seems either my comment is lost on your judgemental nature or you can’t read either way you lose.

ExFeds said :

Look what I found?

http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Curie/1464226491?ref=search

So, what’s your point?

Look what I found?

http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Curie/1464226491?ref=search

You’re kidding aren’t yo?.

Look at that VG I guess a spell check would help you as well. Unless your getting down with ‘yo’ gangster side lol

And no the Ombudsmans office does not only if contacted directly. And certainly not in this case, unless the AFP is lying that is. They wouldn’t do that!

http://www.afp.gov.au/media-centre/news/afp/2010/september/blue-line-response-to-herald-sun-article-titled-afp-officer-escapes-fine.aspx

This allegation was investigated by AFP ‘Professional Standards’ and no misconduct was identified by any officers in relation this matter.

buzz819 said :

Ohh I see the error that vg made, when you said sorry behavior, I thought you meant your behavior, so well I’m guessing vg did to.

Let me guess what camp your from..

farq said :

vg and exfed, trolls feeding trolls?

I’m too tall to be a troll. I don’t fit under bridges

farq said :

vg and exfed, trolls feeding trolls?

No need to troll me through ExFed2’s mess thank you!!!!

Interesting to see this post removed from the most commented section?

ExFed2…any news?

buzz819 said :

Ohh I see the error that vg made, when you said sorry behavior, I thought you meant your behavior, so well I’m guessing vg did to.

Bah hahahahahahaha

Ohh I see the error that vg made, when you said sorry behavior, I thought you meant your behavior, so well I’m guessing vg did to.

vg and exfed, trolls feeding trolls?

exfed2 said :

vg said :

Jim Jones said :

Um … what report?

“I personally do not find one bit of this sorry behaviour either funny, entertaining or acceptable.”

We, and I think I speak for the rest of us, find it all 3.

Great VG you’ve just established that you, Jim and in your mind everyone finds corrupt behaviour, AFP members getting another AFP member out of a speeding fine, the AFP’s ‘proffessional standards’ investigating their own and OMG finding no wrong doing, etc etc etc funny, entertaining and acceptable.

What you have done is shown a lot of people on here the real underlying problem. With an attitude like that I can guess your occupation. Glad you find it acceptable VG but please don’t speak for all of the decent folk on here.

I’m a male prostitute, how did you guess?

I do find your spelling of ‘professional standards’ funny though. The AFP don’t investigate it though, the Ombudsmans Office does

vg said :

Jim Jones said :

Um … what report?

“I personally do not find one bit of this sorry behaviour either funny, entertaining or acceptable.”

We, and I think I speak for the rest of us, find it all 3.

Great VG you’ve just established that you, Jim and in your mind everyone finds corrupt behaviour, AFP members getting another AFP member out of a speeding fine, the AFP’s ‘proffessional standards’ investigating their own and OMG finding no wrong doing, etc etc etc funny, entertaining and acceptable.

What you have done is shown a lot of people on here the real underlying problem. With an attitude like that I can guess your occupation. Glad you find it acceptable VG but please don’t speak for all of the decent folk on here.

Jim Jones said :

Um … what report?

Actually Jim I think he’s waiting for the signal to remove the tin foil hat so the ‘report’ can be beamed direct to his brain. Lets hope the CIA doesn’t jump in on the act as well.

“I personally do not find one bit of this sorry behaviour either funny, entertaining or acceptable.”

We, and I think I speak for the rest of us, find it all 3.

And I don’t drink Inner Circle, I prefer a Jameson’s rum or a fine bourbon.

Now, back to the Star Chamber

You guys are just to much. Jim, um … VG was obviously trying to be sarcastic when he stated ‘Please report back to us the second business closes tomorrow’

And then,

‘COB Friday. T minus 3hrs and 45 minutes and………………’

So I entertained his wry sarcasm. I personally do not find one bit of this sorry behaviour either funny, entertaining or acceptable. You guys just keep feeling secure in that little inner circle.

Um … what report?

exfed2 said :

There’s your report VG and look I even beat your deadline. Not bad for an individual compared to a large government organisation.

You’re kidding aren’t yo?. An auto-reply and you’ve uncovered the crime of the century.

They will contact you within 4 days to tell you that you contacted them. Way to go Sherlock

There’s your report VG and look I even beat your deadline. Not bad for an individual compared to a large government organisation.

vg said :

COB Friday. T minus 3hrs and 45 minutes and………………

The Canberra Times don’t report because, and I’m taking a big gamble here, they don’t care

We will contact you within four working days to acknowledge receipt of your correspondence. If you have not received a response within that time please contact ACLEI by Tel: (02) 6229 9333 Fax: (02) 6230 7341, or e-mail us at info@aclei.gov.au

That’s their four working days…… complaint was submitted Thursday 9th. An email has been sent, lets all hold our breath 🙂

ExFeds said :

Not sure why Canberra Times have not bothered to report as the Herald Sun has “INTERSTATE PAPER”….Maybe the Canberra is all warm and fuzzy, nuffin goes rong hear!!!!

Anyone who takes the Herald Sun seriously should be – at very least – ignored. Preferably they should be mocked and belittled until my sides ache with laughter.

COB Friday. T minus 3hrs and 45 minutes and………………

The Canberra Times don’t report because, and I’m taking a big gamble here, they don’t care

Not sure why Canberra Times have not bothered to report as the Herald Sun has “INTERSTATE PAPER”….Maybe the Canberra is all warm and fuzzy, nuffin goes rong hear!!!!

exfed2 said :

vg said :

“I have given them cob Friday.”

I’m sure they’re crapping themselves, as you actually have no standing in a matter already investigated

It’s that kind of pompous attitude that dissapoints. Anyway investigated by the ‘independent’ proffessional standards………

No ACLEI would/should provide an independant investigation of the matter. As usual the AFP seems to think that investigating their own and saying ‘yep all good here’ will suffice. No more

Please report back to us the second business closes tomorrow.

I’m giving you until just after COB Friday

Imwatchinu said :

One rule for them, one rule for us….and they wonder why they don’t get much respect, heck with the speeding fine above and this on roadworthness below:

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=140587&highlight=officer

Wow, anti-police sentiment from a bogan site celebrating mediocre ‘muscle’ cars. Not sure what dodgy-looking interstate cop cars have to do with an ACT website story about a speeding ticket.

Imwatchinu said :

One rule for them, one rule for us….and they wonder why they don’t get much respect, heck with the speeding fine above and this on roadworthness below:

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=140587&highlight=officer

LOVE THE PICS!!!! Maybe that was part of Rollings and Grimm’s fleet?

buzz819 said :

exfed2 said :

vg said :

“I have given them cob Friday.”

I’m sure they’re crapping themselves, as you actually have no standing in a matter already investigated

It’s that kind of pompous attitude that dissapoints. Anyway investigated by the ‘independent’ proffessional standards………

No ACLEI would/should provide an independant investigation of the matter. As usual the AFP seems to think that investigating their own and saying ‘yep all good here’ will suffice. No more

Good work, you take a stand… Awesome… What are you going to do when ACLEI don’t get back to you friday? Will professional standards have to keep looking into the matters after that?

Do you ever wonder if there is more to the story then you are being told? Or do you know exactly what happened so your righteous view is based on fact, not ignorance?

I’m sure they are scared, a member of the public has given me a time line… Ummm right…

1. I’m not taking a stand. Merely tasking a government agency to do what they are suppossed to do. Not that hard one would think.

2. Fact, no ignorance on this side. Yours?

3. You guys are to far gone, up in your ivory towers………. and by the way I didn’t give them anything they advertise a 4 day contact timeframe for complaints. You really make sense

One rule for them, one rule for us….and they wonder why they don’t get much respect, heck with the speeding fine above and this on roadworthness below:

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=140587&highlight=officer

exfed2 said :

vg said :

“I have given them cob Friday.”

I’m sure they’re crapping themselves, as you actually have no standing in a matter already investigated

It’s that kind of pompous attitude that dissapoints. Anyway investigated by the ‘independent’ proffessional standards………

No ACLEI would/should provide an independant investigation of the matter. As usual the AFP seems to think that investigating their own and saying ‘yep all good here’ will suffice. No more

Good work, you take a stand… Awesome… What are you going to do when ACLEI don’t get back to you friday? Will professional standards have to keep looking into the matters after that?

Do you ever wonder if there is more to the story then you are being told? Or do you know exactly what happened so your righteous view is based on fact, not ignorance?

I’m sure they are scared, a member of the public has given me a time line… Ummm right…

vg said :

“I have given them cob Friday.”

I’m sure they’re crapping themselves, as you actually have no standing in a matter already investigated

It’s that kind of pompous attitude that dissapoints. Anyway investigated by the ‘independent’ proffessional standards………

No ACLEI would/should provide an independant investigation of the matter. As usual the AFP seems to think that investigating their own and saying ‘yep all good here’ will suffice. No more

How do you know that ACLEI have already investigated anything???

“I have given them cob Friday.”

I’m sure they’re crapping themselves, as you actually have no standing in a matter already investigated

ExFeds said :

MAX4073 / dvaey “Do what ever you want, even if your not sure, because there will be a law that says you can” – AFP

Very big +1 or log it as accelerating to check the speed of a distant vehicle.

And no contact yet. As expected although I have given them cob Friday.

MAX4073 / dvaey “Do what ever you want, even if your not sure, because there will be a law that says you can” – AFP

dvaey said :

ExFeds said :

How many ACT Police vehicles are actually certified and where is this register? Is it available to the public?

Not sure if its still the case, but police vehicles didnt used to have to be inspected or registered, theyre classified as exempt vehicles under the registration act.

I read a similar story from NSW a while back, about an accident which occured after police were chasing a vehicle. In the coroners inquest, the coroner asked if the vehicle they were pursuing was travelling at a dangerous speed, why the police officers thought it a safe/good idea to travel at excessive speed behind it. The officers reply was that he had completed a 3-day driver training course. The coroner kept asking why he thought that made him a safer driver to drive at these excess speeds. We get messages drummed into us that speed kills, but apparently all you need is a 3-day advanced driver training course, and its a-ok. Just because a car or driver is ‘speed certified’, that doesnt change the laws of physics, if a police vehicle loses control at 130km/hr it behaves the same as any other vehicle at that speed. Just because it has a certificate, doesnt mean it wont endanger lives of other drivers or make the situation any safer.

Stories like this, are the very few reasons where I support speed cameras. Lets see a senior cop get off a fine, which has been issued by a private company with photographic evidence, instead of one handed out by a junior cop whos boss is the drivers old drinking buddy.

Don’t they just pull the closest car over to justify tripping a camera?

exfed2 said :

Since ACLEI has been mentioned as a government body set up to oversee the AFP and ACC a complaint re the above matter has been submitted. Apparently contact will be made within 4 days. Stay tuned……….

Any contact yet?

There can be only one ExFed here!!!!!

ExFeds said :

Why would the Police Minister even bother responding to this considering it alerts the people that voted him in to the topic of speed certification and Police V Police intercepts.

Fair point. Fortunately you seem to know all the facts and are holding your own personal enquiry, which saves him the trouble.

P.S. The sky is also falling.

So are you really Ex Fed?

Why would the Police Minister even bother responding to this considering it alerts the people that voted him in to the topic of speed certification and Police V Police intercepts.

bigred said :

Not sure about a Royal Commisssion – the grounds don’t seem to be quite there. However, an activist Police Minister would be welcome. And bet the Auditor-General would find some interestng stuff if she turned the spotlight on them.

If the Ombudsman has 3 own motion investigations and doesn’t find significant issues I have a sneaking suspicion an accountant won’t either

Not sure about a Royal Commisssion – the grounds don’t seem to be quite there. However, an activist Police Minister would be welcome. And bet the Auditor-General would find some interestng stuff if she turned the spotlight on them.

Special G said :

Simple answer – Police are expected to do a whole bunch of stuff that other members of the public are not on behalf of the community in the interest of maintaining a stable society.

Like travelling at a high rate of speed ‘off duty’! WHERE DO I SIGN UP?

Welcome to the party Dvaey – took you long enough.

Simple answer – Police are expected to do a whole bunch of stuff that other members of the public are not on behalf of the community in the interest of maintaining a stable society.

Exfeds2 – not peturbed at all – just attempting to answer your questions.
fgzk – vague as I don’t have all the answers you are asking for – you mentioned which speedos are certified in the AFP – big organisation – I’d be surprised if the Commissioner could answer that one without a bit of directed research.

Police are not scared of a royal commission – it’s just a waste of time and money. They have better things to do.

dvaey said :

ExFeds said :

How many ACT Police vehicles are actually certified and where is this register? Is it available to the public?

Not sure if its still the case, but police vehicles didnt used to have to be inspected or registered, theyre classified as exempt vehicles under the registration act.

I read a similar story from NSW a while back, about an accident which occured after police were chasing a vehicle. In the coroners inquest, the coroner asked if the vehicle they were pursuing was travelling at a dangerous speed, why the police officers thought it a safe/good idea to travel at excessive speed behind it. The officers reply was that he had completed a 3-day driver training course. The coroner kept asking why he thought that made him a safer driver to drive at these excess speeds. We get messages drummed into us that speed kills, but apparently all you need is a 3-day advanced driver training course, and its a-ok. Just because a car or driver is ‘speed certified’, that doesnt change the laws of physics, if a police vehicle loses control at 130km/hr it behaves the same as any other vehicle at that speed. Just because it has a certificate, doesnt mean it wont endanger lives of other drivers or make the situation any safer.

Stories like this, are the very few reasons where I support speed cameras. Lets see a senior cop get off a fine, which has been issued by a private company with photographic evidence, instead of one handed out by a junior cop whos boss is the drivers old drinking buddy.

I think you miss the point on what the “speedo certification” is in this instance, it is a calibration done to Police vehicles to say that they are travelling at a certain speed and that is the true and accurate speed. It is not saying that a vehicle is certified to travel at a certain speed, that is where pursuit and urgent duty driving classification’s come in, which are a totally different point.

I don’t think there is a register to see what vehicle’s are calibrated, but I’m sure, if you do get pulled over in such an instance and wish to dispute it with the Police officer on the day, they will show you the sticker that is present near or on the dash, if they have a balinger fitted on the vehicle they should also be able to show you the locked speed and the calibration sticker for it.

No it doesn’t matter what type of vehicle it is, whether it is Constable Kenny’s car, the Prius, a VW van, or a Toyota Landcruiser, they can all be certified to show the true and accurate speed.

ExFeds said :

How many ACT Police vehicles are actually certified and where is this register? Is it available to the public?

Not sure if its still the case, but police vehicles didnt used to have to be inspected or registered, theyre classified as exempt vehicles under the registration act.

I read a similar story from NSW a while back, about an accident which occured after police were chasing a vehicle. In the coroners inquest, the coroner asked if the vehicle they were pursuing was travelling at a dangerous speed, why the police officers thought it a safe/good idea to travel at excessive speed behind it. The officers reply was that he had completed a 3-day driver training course. The coroner kept asking why he thought that made him a safer driver to drive at these excess speeds. We get messages drummed into us that speed kills, but apparently all you need is a 3-day advanced driver training course, and its a-ok. Just because a car or driver is ‘speed certified’, that doesnt change the laws of physics, if a police vehicle loses control at 130km/hr it behaves the same as any other vehicle at that speed. Just because it has a certificate, doesnt mean it wont endanger lives of other drivers or make the situation any safer.

Stories like this, are the very few reasons where I support speed cameras. Lets see a senior cop get off a fine, which has been issued by a private company with photographic evidence, instead of one handed out by a junior cop whos boss is the drivers old drinking buddy.

…..oh, and by the way, for the OPs info as Superintendent is a rank it is spelt with a capital ‘s’

exfed2 said :

Special G said :

Stay ignorant – some say ignorance is bliss.

🙂 I think the fact that you are obviously becoming a little perturbed speaks volumes. If these comments were far from the truth or not hitting a nerve best practice would be to just ignore one would think…..

Interesting logic. He thinks you’re a twit therefore you must be right.

Is that some new philosophical practice we all should be aware of? Is it called ‘logical stupidism’ or similiar?

Special G said :

Stay ignorant – some say ignorance is bliss.

🙂 I think the fact that you are obviously becoming a little perturbed speaks volumes. If these comments were far from the truth or not hitting a nerve best practice would be to just ignore one would think…..

Aren’t all speed checks done as an estimate first then confirmed, if available against other devices?

You see SpecialG answering a question is not that hard? Even though you “probably” where a little vague.

That is all the people wanted, answers.

Why would the AFP be scared of a Royal Commission? They seemed to have worked with other state police forces. If it only uncovers some in-house bullying then what’s the problem?

some are certified some are not. Probably best to bet on they all are.

The toyota prius is probably not.
Kenny Koalas car is probably not.
The high vis traffic cars are.

Easy don’t speed and you will have not reason to find out.

the only difference to the motorist pulled over may by the cop saying ‘I have checked your speed at XXX’ or ‘I have estimated your speed at XXX’

exfed2 said :

Rather be slippery than to slip up! This thread has gotten off topic I suppose by a few cleverly worded posts to distract attention from the heading and nature of the subject. Correct Tooks if done properly highly unlikely to be contested.

Let’s get back to the issue of this thread. Tooks is driving a marked police vehicle along the parkway and using the above mentioned methods issues a TIN to the driver of a vehicle. Let’s say I estimate that vehicle 123ABC was travelling no less than 140kph and no more than 150kph. Would a caution be issued or would this outcome even be discussed? The only answer is no. Why then in the matter involving Grimm?

What if Constable Curie had recorded the method used as a ‘check speed’ when he had a non certified speedo? This would be grounds enough to get off in Court due to an error on the Constables part. If he had recorded the method as a speed estimate – no error would have occured. (not that I know the details, just speculating)

I’m not saying it is right but that is how the system works. Any person may dispute a ticket and take the matter to Court.

Special G – Since your the authority on the topic and not a Random on the internet – What AFP vehicles certified to conduct speed checks?

So what Police vehicles are speed certified and how do they do it?

Special g who you haven a crack at? Sounds like a vent session from the Melbourne office?

1 – Sure why not. This incident does not indicate the need for a royal commission and you have been stating there is widespread corruption in the AFP. You tar all people in the organisation with the same brush.

2 – Govt departments that need access get it. You as some random on the internet do not.

3 – Check the numbers of posts on this subject you have made, including bringing it back after several days of no one being interested. – axe to grind. You have an issue – would you like me to refer you to someone you can to talk to.

I have tried to educate you on legislation and process which you have chosen to ignore. Stay ignorant – some say ignorance is bliss.

Looking forward to doing a GRIMMA passed an “uncertified Police vehicle” this week. Making sure I don’t go over the 43 mark.

How many ACT Police vehicles are actually certified and where is this register? Is it available to the public?

After reading that article again, I doubt this will the end of this story.

fgzk said :

“why is is that whenever the AFP’s shortcomings are highlighted in the public arena member/s seem to attempt to paint a picture of any person voicing concern as having an axe to grind?”

Because bully’s always blame their victims.

Yes they do…..

“why is is that whenever the AFP’s shortcomings are highlighted in the public arena member/s seem to attempt to paint a picture of any person voicing concern as having an axe to grind?”

Because bully’s always blame their victims.

Special G said :

What would be an outcome you would be happy with – A royal commission into the entire organisation based on a speeding ticket issue?
The sacking of the member involved?

Bear in mind action may have been taken by AFP Professional standards – you are not privy to that information and it would not be reported on regardless of how many complaints you make or to who you make them.

Exfeds2 – you seem to have a particular axe to grind over this issue – bit too close to home.

1. Not at all however since someone (I believe it was you) mentioned that ACLEI was established to oversee matters such as these, lets put that theory to the test although we all know what the outcome will be.

2. So not even a government dept would be privvy eh? Being that one of the AFP core values is ‘accountability’ I find this ironic. Wow we’ll investigate internally then not make the results available to any person outside the organisation 🙂

3. Not at all, why is is that whenever the AFP’s shortcomings are highlighted in the public arena member/s seem to attempt to paint a picture of any person voicing concern as having an axe to grind? This is hilarious

Special G don’t you think that this matter not only highlights the typical behavior perceived by members of the public about the AFP behind closed doors but more so a display of double standards.

The AFP media release states that professional standards have investigated and claims of no inappropriate action of any members involved including off duty ones.

Therefore, if a police member gets away with a traffic infringement by way on non certified speedos, what happens to all of us that don’t?
Seems wrong that this practice can be ignored and drivers just go along blinded by the inappropriate revenue raising.

What would be an outcome you would be happy with – A royal commission into the entire organisation based on a speeding ticket issue?
The sacking of the member involved?

Bear in mind action may have been taken by AFP Professional standards – you are not privy to that information and it would not be reported on regardless of how many complaints you make or to who you make them.

The member involved may have been demoted for example – loss of several thousand dollars a year in salary with retraining etc – as opposed to $600 and 4 points – would this satisfy you.

In relation to non certified speedos – the questions you asked have been answered.

Exfeds2 – you seem to have a particular axe to grind over this issue – bit too close to home.

exfed2, who are you anticipating they ask?

I am getting the feeling that this post was commented on by cops or wannabe’s until now.

Given the potential for Ministers and ACLIE to be involved, all gone very quiet HAHAHAHA

They might be interseted when it hits ACLEI. Might even ask for a comment. 🙂

4 days, so since they did not have a full day Friday I’ll give them that, so Mon, Tues, Wed and Thurs. I’ll expect contact by cob Fri then………

Its appears that this topic of speedo certification is a little too hot to handle.

Canberra times story not found?

ExFeds said :

Max4037: were you in the car (uncertified) too?

EXFED2: Don’t hold your breathe!!! – the outcome will most certainly be, “the matter has been investigated by the AFP,” HAHAHAHA any money!!!

I would like to call on Mr Corbell to address this issue since it is a public forum and not going away???

ExFeds, shouldn’t you know the answer to that, better than anyone of us!!!!!!!!

I Agree, this matter should addressed. I amongst many have received a speeding fine from a non certified vehicle, although, not doin a Grimma!

I do not believe in suicide 🙂 so will not be holding my breath. I have mentioned before that this is exactly what they will do but since a few apparently think that ACLEI suffice as an oversight body for the AFP we will put that belief to the test

Max4037: were you in the car (uncertified) too?

EXFED2: Don’t hold your breathe!!! – the outcome will most certainly be, “the matter has been investigated by the AFP,” HAHAHAHA any money!!!

I would like to call on Mr Corbell to address this issue since it is a public forum and not going away???

Since ACLEI has been mentioned as a government body set up to oversee the AFP and ACC a complaint re the above matter has been submitted. Apparently contact will be made within 4 days. Stay tuned……….

So when will Corbel release a media statement advising a refund of tins related to vehicle speed detection like Grimma?

farq said :

Reply

Reply

“A royal commission.”

You are going to need more than a dodgy ticket and some good old in-house bullying. What else do you have?

max4073 said :

farq said :

Who is supprised? Seriously?

Sounds like the AFP lost an honest cop. Still I guess it’s hard to be honest with supervisors like that.

It’s long past the time we ripped apart the culture of the AFP and start again.

How has the power to do this?

A royal commission.

farq said :

Who is supprised? Seriously?

Sounds like the AFP lost an honest cop. Still I guess it’s hard to be honest with supervisors like that.

It’s long past the time we ripped apart the culture of the AFP and start again.

How has the power to do this?

Picture painted…junior member Richard Curie out on patrol by himself…..Nope! Senior member present…..Most likely.

GRIMM’s vehicle followed and speed estimated 40+ km/hr in an 80 speed zone, as per Exfed2 then estimate checked, assuming by two or more members, against Police car speedo or other devices? decision made to perform traffic stop!

What went wrong? Denial by GRIMM? Senior member part of something smelly? Was this part of a ploy relating to the bullying to rid the AFP of this member, although, unrelated matters were mentioned?

If the professional standards have in fact investigated and nothing more came of the matter, is the professional standards as bad as GRIMM and the other members involved or are they using the non speed certified vehicle excuse to cover potentially another corrupt act by the AFP?

Why are Police not directed to only use speed certified vehicles only for detection?

fgzk said :

Is there a pattern with asking a policeman a question and getting a vague answer, no answer or a rebuttal accusation? Would this be part of misdirection that exfed points out? If you cant get a straight answer out of a policeman on an anonymous forum what hope does an official inquiry have?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. About as much hope as the climate sceptics party has of forming government

Is there a pattern with asking a policeman a question and getting a vague answer, no answer or a rebuttal accusation? Would this be part of misdirection that exfed points out? If you cant get a straight answer out of a policeman on an anonymous forum what hope does an official inquiry have?

no offense taken… thanks for the sincerity of your apology (see, others, nice people are on this board too – and no sarcasm in that bit!) and i guess my post was a bit dry.

cheers – carry on. of course people what break the law should be held to account. one could well argue that such a man ought to be held in higher account, given he should be in no doubt as to the laws/regulations in place; and his stature as role model to the community.

astrojax said :

exfed2 said :

astrojax said :

working that long in that environment, among the scum and bogans of society, ought to give you some scope for leeway, oughtn’t it?

No why should it? Especially not exceeding the speed limit by more than 40kph? Did you even think in the slightest before you posted that comment? I think not

actually yeah, i did. it’s often referred to as ‘sarcasm’ and was intended to elicit such a response as you have provided. well done, full marks. promotion to probabtionary constable for you, good sir.

I personally did not see one ounce of sarcasm in your original post. It seemed constructed as a matter of fact statement/question. I apologise if I did not see your intention and offended you by my response.

Tooks said :

exfed2 said :

Tooks said :

C’mon! That’s a bit slippery of you. Explain how you would prove it?

Yes, there are a range of factors other than the speedo that come into play (distance behind the car, distance followed etc). If it’s done properly, it’s unlikely it would ever go to Court 😉

Rather be slippery than to slip up! This thread has gotten off topic I suppose by a few cleverly worded posts to distract attention from the heading and nature of the subject. Correct Tooks if done properly highly unlikely to be contested.

Let’s get back to the issue of this thread. Tooks is driving a marked police vehicle along the parkway and using the above mentioned methods issues a TIN to the driver of a vehicle. Let’s say I estimate that vehicle 123ABC was travelling no less than 140kph and no more than 150kph. Would a caution be issued or would this outcome even be discussed? The only answer is no. Why then in the matter involving Grimm?

It did drift a bit off topic, didn’t it! I actually agree with you, FWIW, that a caution shouldn’t be issued to *anyone* for driving at 40kmh over the limit (unless in exceptional circumstances).

I don’t know the full facts of this case, but it does nothing for the public’s trust in police to see stories like this, because the perception is that this officer received preferential treatment.

Spot on

exfed2 said :

astrojax said :

working that long in that environment, among the scum and bogans of society, ought to give you some scope for leeway, oughtn’t it?

No why should it? Especially not exceeding the speed limit by more than 40kph? Did you even think in the slightest before you posted that comment? I think not

actually yeah, i did. it’s often referred to as ‘sarcasm’ and was intended to elicit such a response as you have provided. well done, full marks. promotion to probabtionary constable for you, good sir.

exfed2 said :

Tooks said :

C’mon! That’s a bit slippery of you. Explain how you would prove it?

Yes, there are a range of factors other than the speedo that come into play (distance behind the car, distance followed etc). If it’s done properly, it’s unlikely it would ever go to Court 😉

Rather be slippery than to slip up! This thread has gotten off topic I suppose by a few cleverly worded posts to distract attention from the heading and nature of the subject. Correct Tooks if done properly highly unlikely to be contested.

Let’s get back to the issue of this thread. Tooks is driving a marked police vehicle along the parkway and using the above mentioned methods issues a TIN to the driver of a vehicle. Let’s say I estimate that vehicle 123ABC was travelling no less than 140kph and no more than 150kph. Would a caution be issued or would this outcome even be discussed? The only answer is no. Why then in the matter involving Grimm?

It did drift a bit off topic, didn’t it! I actually agree with you, FWIW, that a caution shouldn’t be issued to *anyone* for driving at 40kmh over the limit (unless in exceptional circumstances).

I don’t know the full facts of this case, but it does nothing for the public’s trust in police to see stories like this, because the perception is that this officer received preferential treatment.

astrojax said :

working that long in that environment, among the scum and bogans of society, ought to give you some scope for leeway, oughtn’t it?

No why should it? Especially not exceeding the speed limit by more than 40kph? Did you even think in the slightest before you posted that comment? I think not

ahh, what happened to the good ol’ days when ‘don’t you know who i am son?’ actually had some cred?

working that long in that environment, among the scum and bogans of society, ought to give you some scope for leeway, oughtn’t it?

Tooks said :

C’mon! That’s a bit slippery of you. Explain how you would prove it?

Yes, there are a range of factors other than the speedo that come into play (distance behind the car, distance followed etc). If it’s done properly, it’s unlikely it would ever go to Court 😉

Rather be slippery than to slip up! This thread has gotten off topic I suppose by a few cleverly worded posts to distract attention from the heading and nature of the subject. Correct Tooks if done properly highly unlikely to be contested.

Let’s get back to the issue of this thread. Tooks is driving a marked police vehicle along the parkway and using the above mentioned methods issues a TIN to the driver of a vehicle. Let’s say I estimate that vehicle 123ABC was travelling no less than 140kph and no more than 150kph. Would a caution be issued or would this outcome even be discussed? The only answer is no. Why then in the matter involving Grimm?

No fake – just attempting to eductate the masses on the big wide world out there.

Try this – stand on the side of a road and watch the traffic go by. You will be able to estimate whether a car is speeding or not just by looking at it. This is called using your brain to process life experience.

If you do this a lot – whilst checking the speeds using a laser/radar/certified speedo then you would find you would get quite accurate at it.

As to the whether a vehicle is speed certified it is simple – a bit like servicing your car – it is done regularly and a log kept for when it needs to be done next time.

If it happens in a forest who is to know.

How about another question. How do the public know if a police car is “speed certified”?
How do does the driver of the police car know if his car is “speed certified”?

Hypothetical question;

If the person issuing the TIN, and the person disputing it are both sworn officers (or cops, as I like to call them), and both of them are driving vehicles with calibrated speedos, who should the court believe?

Will the universe explode?

“Proof? There’s always proof but do you really think I am foolish enough to prove so here, to the likes of certain people and hang myself in the process? Ah, no.”

C’mon! That’s a bit slippery of you. Explain how you would prove it?

Yes, there are a range of factors other than the speedo that come into play (distance behind the car, distance followed etc). If it’s done properly, it’s unlikely it would ever go to Court 😉

Tooks said :

exfed2 said :

Tooks are you disputing that statement? So what you are saying is that you doubt many ACT Policing officers have ever issued a TIN for a speed related offence using an estimate of speed whilst driving a Vito, non certified vehicle etc??

Wish I could have Dr Evil chime in and say “Riiiight”

Am I disputing the statement? No, because I can’t possibly prove otherwise. What I said was I don’t imagine it happens regularly.

I would think the practice of using non-certified speedos to issue TINs isn’t as common as you make it out to be. I may be wrong about that, but what proof to you have to say otherwise, other than ‘AFP Sources’?

Think again my friend. I don’t follow what you mean ‘using non-certified speedos’ as a whole range of factors come into play if you will be issuing a TIN based on an estimate of speed and do not have a calibrated or certified speedometer in the vehicle to rely upon. If you are in fact in the job and a sworn member go and follow a few cars along the parkway and hone your skills. Who know’s if you do it correctly it may even stand up in court that is of course unless you happen to nab Mr Grimm! 🙂

Proof? There’s always proof but do you really think I am foolish enough to prove so here, to the likes of certain people and hang myself in the process? Ah, no

Special G said :

exfed2 said :

Tooks are you disputing that statement? So what you are saying is that you doubt many ACT Policing officers have ever issued a TIN for a speed related offence using an estimate of speed whilst driving a Vito, non certified vehicle etc??

Wish I could have Dr Evil chime in and say “Riiiight”

You have spelt it out right there – ‘a speed estimate’ an estimate is based on several things – a speedo – how fast the car is travelling compared to other cars, personal experience in speed – these things then can be introduced as evidence.

He fakes left then goes right!

The comment was apparently made by an AFP source that TIN were regularly issued using vehicles that did not have a certified speedometer. That leaves us with estimate’s of speed utilising the above mentioned methods among others…………………….

exfed2 said :

Tooks are you disputing that statement? So what you are saying is that you doubt many ACT Policing officers have ever issued a TIN for a speed related offence using an estimate of speed whilst driving a Vito, non certified vehicle etc??

Wish I could have Dr Evil chime in and say “Riiiight”

Am I disputing the statement? No, because I can’t possibly prove otherwise. What I said was I don’t imagine it happens regularly.

What do Vitos (which I haven’t seen police use for a few years) have to do with anything? A speedo is certified or it isn’t.

I would think the practice of using non-certified speedos to issue TINs isn’t as common as you make it out to be. I may be wrong about that, but what proof to you have to say otherwise, other than ‘AFP Sources’?

exfed2 said :

Tooks are you disputing that statement? So what you are saying is that you doubt many ACT Policing officers have ever issued a TIN for a speed related offence using an estimate of speed whilst driving a Vito, non certified vehicle etc??

Wish I could have Dr Evil chime in and say “Riiiight”

You have spelt it out right there – ‘a speed estimate’ an estimate is based on several things – a speedo – how fast the car is travelling compared to other cars, personal experience in speed – these things then can be introduced as evidence.

It is not as exact as a certified speedo – speed check – although will still get you a ticket.

DJ said :

ExFed 2 – just making a observation to JB.

To many will rot your teeth. Send my regards

Tooks are you disputing that statement? So what you are saying is that you doubt many ACT Policing officers have ever issued a TIN for a speed related offence using an estimate of speed whilst driving a Vito, non certified vehicle etc??

Wish I could have Dr Evil chime in and say “Riiiight”

Pork Hunt said :

How come Grimm didn’t have the balls to admit his offence and take his medicine?

I dunno. Probably the same testicularly enhanced rationale as anonymous forum posting under ‘witty’ presdonyms

exfed2 said :

Tooks said :

bigred said :

I am waiting for the person posting as Tooks and his buddies to defend this one by attacking the credibility of the authors of all the negative comments. After all, no corruption here.

Regarding the OP, if the police car involved didn’t have a certified speedo, then that’s a legitimate reason to withdraw a TIN.

AFP sources said speeding tickets were regularly issued in the ACT by officers using police cars that were not “speed certified”.

That’d be a lot of regularly issues TIN being withdrawn, revoked? Yeah right………… should be a press release stating that if you were issued a TIN in this manner then contest or class action etc. Happens in NSW

To have a TIN withdrawn, you would usually have to dispute it.

Most people probably don’t dispute their TINs because they know they were speeding, and aren’t interested in getting off on a technicality. But as you say, they can always contest it if they wish. If it is revealed a speedo wasn’t certified, then a withdrawn TIN should be the result.

‘AFP Sources’? I’m always a bit suspicious when media (or anyone else) uses (insert organisation here) sources.

Tooks said :

bigred said :

I am waiting for the person posting as Tooks and his buddies to defend this one by attacking the credibility of the authors of all the negative comments. After all, no corruption here.

Regarding the OP, if the police car involved didn’t have a certified speedo, then that’s a legitimate reason to withdraw a TIN.

AFP sources said speeding tickets were regularly issued in the ACT by officers using police cars that were not “speed certified”.

That’d be a lot of regularly issues TIN being withdrawn, revoked? Yeah right………… should be a press release stating that if you were issued a TIN in this manner then contest or class action etc. Happens in NSW

ExFeds – obviously not living up to your name with the nature/substance of your questions.

ExFed 2 – just making a observation to JB.

fgzk – ‘I always thought that the option of writing to the “police” about a ticket was just a formality that brings the auto response of see you in court.’… since you don’t refer to an exact incident this appears to be a legitimate question. If you don’t believe everything you hear or read, like most people, you can go to Court and have a look. Compare what you see there to the number of drivers Police stop you will see that the ratio of traffic charges that end up in Court are low… there has to be a logical reason for this! The answer – discretion, proceedure and due process.

Pork Hunt – keep hunting?

How come Grimm didn’t have the balls to admit his offence and take his medicine?

From personal experience I have modified a ticket to a caution based on what was written in. Yes this does happen. How often I can’t tell you I don’t have the information.

ACLEI and the Commonwealth Ombudsman have oversight of the AFP. How is that any different from the NSWPol integrity commission. You obviously have an axe to grind and feel that there is entrenched corruption in the AFP. You are wrong. Which section of the AFP are you particularly disgruntled with – National, ACT Policing, IDG, Protection?

Exfeds (new or old edition) obviously have a limited idea on how the system works. I will attempt to answer some of your questions.

What is the legislative requirement for issuing a caution in lieu of a traffic fine? Any Police officer can issue a caution based on discression.

Doesn’t the driver have to admit to the offence to get a caution? yes.

Can cautions really be issued for such high rates of speed? Cautions can be issued for anything – be it traffic offences, assaults, burglary, thefts, etc. unlikely for more serious offences but can happen depending on the circumstances.

bigred said :

I am waiting for the person posting as Tooks and his buddies to defend this one by attacking the credibility of the authors of all the negative comments. After all, no corruption here.

I’ve attacked your credibility recently because it seems you have so little of it.

And no, not everyone who agrees with me that you have little or no credibility is my buddy, otherwise I would have many buddies on this site, I suspect.

Regarding the OP, if the police car involved didn’t have a certified speedo, then that’s a legitimate reason to withdraw a TIN. If the officer was pressured in any way to withdraw it, then that’s just wrong, imo.

Nothing to see here move on please…..

I always thought that the option of writing to the “police” about a ticket was just a formality that brings the auto response of see you in court. How many tickets last year where withdrawn through this process? Has anyone actual written an explanation and had a ticket withdrawn even though they where the driver of a vehicle committing an offence? If so what where the circumstances?

Are these people still AFP officers?

Grimm in name, grimm in nature.

exfed2 (how original)

AFP is a politically driven tool for the polly’s….untouchable…no royal commission will be bothered with their alleged corrupt activities. ACLEI, don’t you mean the other department of the AFP HAHAHAHA what a joke.

I say the AFP should release the information about this matter instead of leaving its head in the sand…..we all know it happened.

What is the legislative requirement for issuing a caution in lieu of a traffic fine?

Doesn’t the driver have to admit to the offence to get a caution?

Can cautions really be issued for such high rates of speed?

Obviously a wrong was detected otherwise nothing would have happened.

If there was a fine was issued to start how does it then just change to a caution? —suggests that denial played a part or like the article reads, ‘they changed it’

Traffic infringement notices in the ACT are computer generated from a handheld unit therefore no writing. Ink is permitted in only one instance and not for that.

For those out there that think that an internal department of a police force, many of whom either share or have shared both close working and social relationships with the very colleagues they may have to ‘investigate’ is in any way effective or even takes place, think again. Hard.

Also think about the fact the AFP has never had a royal commission (real or effective one at least)the fact that aside from ACLEI there is no independent commission such as NSWPOL Police Integrity Commission and you will start to see the real problems here. I personally would enjoy seeing this matter pursued more rigorously by the media and see how far a meek press release goes then. The Shaggy song ‘Wasn’t me’ comes to mind!!! 🙂

Only those involved know what the outcome of the professional standards investigation was. Supt Grimm may have got off the fine but got his arse kicked far worse than a $600 fine by the AFP.

Anyone may question a fine issued to them. They are told this at the time of issuing the ticket. Maybe he requested a caution be considered because of his good driving history. Maybe Mr Curie wrote on the ticket that his speedo was certified and it wasn’t – this would limit the chance of a prosecution in Court.

All speculation mind you.

Very clever media release. Seems Grimm could have been retropectively on “gardening leave”, thus not operational at the time. Very clever wording.

fgzk, no my apologies. To start with your post seemed like it was for some unknown reason supporting the actions of the senior AFP members. Then I realised your intention. I suppose you either laugh or cry.

I withdraw my comment. It was an off the cuff comment, tending towards cynical. I apologize for my poor choice of words. I should have used Ex police officer.

fgzk said :

His word versus a discredit police officer should not pose a problem. He just had to stand up and say he was only doing………

Who ever insinuated that the former officer was ever discredited? You have now. I think comments posted here should be thought about very carefully.

DJ said :

Johnboy… you didn’t quote this part from the article:

Mr Curie’s application to have an extension granted on his unfair dismissal claim was dismissed by FWA commissioner Mr Ryan on Tuesday.

Due to the fact the application was made well outside the timeframe allowed for an unfair dismaisal claim. DJ if you even have one what seems to be your point with this post? Nice try at a little misdirection…………

Yes I am new. No I am not ExFeds doppeleganger. Wonder when we’ll see 3,4,5………..

ExFed I think the press release took issue with Sun Heralds claimed that “AFP Senior Officers” withdrew the original ticket. The court documents ([2010] FWA 6769) never mentioned who withdrew the ticket, only that “independently of the above the TIN was withdrawn and a Traffic Caution Notice was issued”. So if senior officers didn’t do it who did?

DJ we can look at the facts we do know. A ticket was issued that never made it to the court. Excessive speed was involved. The ticket was withdrawn and replaced with a caution by an unknown party (unknown by us or any documents in the public domain). The incident was investigated and no charges where laid.

” This allegation was investigated by AFP Professional Standards and no misconduct was identified by any officers in relation this matter.
The AFP takes this type of issue very seriously and would not accept this behaviour by any of its operational members”

I take it they where not talking about the original speeding offense. Just covering their own asses.

So speeding 40+ is not so serious. The officer concerned knows how fast he was going. Since it never went to court we never got to hear his story. His word versus a discredit police officer should not pose a problem. He just had to stand up and say he was only doing………

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story……and that’s all I’ll say

Exfeds, you know the old saying – nothings official until it’s been officially denied.

http://www.afp.gov.au Press release :

….incorrectly claimed that members of the Australian Federal Police (AFP) acted inappropriately…

Which part of a senior member “off duty” travelling at 40+km over the limit is appropriate?

It’s always good 2 c the afp exposed 4 what they are, they probably did him a favour, got out while he’s still got a soul.

bigred said :

I am waiting for the person posting as Tooks and his buddies to defend this one by attacking the credibility of the authors of all the negative comments. After all, no corruption here.

You’ve proved us all wrong again bigred ….. hazaar !!!!

Oh wait, “allegation” is a word that comes to mind here. A thing you like to make all the time here.

Besides, even IF this was true, one instance means the AFP is “rotten to the core” right bigred ?? Keep that spin coming. Time for a new tinfoil hat, this one is getting worn out.

So does this mean that if my car is not ‘speed certified” I can use that as a perfectly legitimate defence against a speeding fine, or do I also have to bully the issuing officer?

fgzk said :

DJ “Please – you always have the option to take the infringement to Court and challenge it there “

As you stated in another thread is this just another example of ” Cops who can and do make up offences? “. So why didn’t this ticket make it to court?

No axe to grind its just an example.

I don’t know.

An example? I guess it’s an example of a one sided story aired by the media that we all know we can trust not to twist or bend the truth?

I don’t have the full facts and neither do the media…

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/afp-police-officer-escapes-speeding-fine-in-act/story-e6frf7l6-1225913026086

Try the full story

I am waiting for the person posting as Tooks and his buddies to defend this one by attacking the credibility of the authors of all the negative comments. After all, no corruption here.

DJ “Please – you always have the option to take the infringement to Court and challenge it there “

As you stated in another thread is this just another example of ” Cops who can and do make up offences? “. So why didn’t this ticket make it to court?

No axe to grind its just an example.

Superintendent Grimm…….sounds like a fun person.

Johnboy… you didn’t quote this part from the article:

Mr Curie’s application to have an extension granted on his unfair dismissal claim was dismissed by FWA commissioner Mr Ryan on Tuesday.

So some police cars may have inconsistent speed readings that varies by up to 40kmh. I don’t get this. How do we know if a police car is “speed certified”? At what speed over the limit does a police officer lose his job?

Has the AFP come under the control of the NSW labor guvmnt now?

farq said :

Who is supprised? Seriously?

Sounds like the AFP lost an honest cop. Still I guess it’s hard to be honest with supervisors like that.

It’s long past the time we ripped apart the culture of the AFP and start again.

The withdrawing of the speeding fine fails to meet the community expectations of the Police.

The FWA finding suggests that there’s definately more to this than we will probably ever know, so its difficult to really take sides here… yeah the supervisors may be tools, or maybe he’s the tool? Who really knows?

To be expected I suppose, but those comments were angry enough to say expected or not it’s not on senior level doing whatever they want for their own.

I noticed another story in there co-written by Kate Rose and Wayne Flower. Cute!

Who is supprised? Seriously?

Sounds like the AFP lost an honest cop. Still I guess it’s hard to be honest with supervisors like that.

It’s long past the time we ripped apart the culture of the AFP and start again.