Double demerit points this Anzac Day

Deckard said :

Puhlease!!

Have you ever been distracted by fog lights? I know I haven’t. I have been distracted by normal headlights with their aim adjusted higher. Pretty much every other night.

At night, or at dusk or dawn YES, all the time. Especially when they’re following me as it’s much longer exposure than when the d$ckhead is coming towards me. So much so I angle the rear view mirrors so I can’t see behind me. Even worse when following someone, as I can’t see well enough past them to know if it’s safe to overtake, so I have to drop way back. Actually, cars coming towards me are just as bad, as the temporary blindness means I may not see the suicidal wildlife crouching on the verge.

And yes, cars or utes with heavy loads or trailers, causing their headlights to be raised, are just as annoying, but more forgiveable as there’s usually nothing they can do about it.

IP

KeenGolfer said :

Roundhead89 said :

We’ve had this debate on RA before. Apparently there are two types of lights. Fog lights and Daytime Running Lights (DRLs). Someone said that driving with fog lights on is legal but DRLs are not. Or was it the other way around? Nobody seems to know and nobody has posted the relevant section of the road rules clarifying the situation.

Took me 30 seconds:

ARR 217 Using fog lights
1) The driver of a vehicle fitted with front fog lights or rear fog lights must not operate the fog light unless the driver is driving in fog or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility.

2) In this rule:
front fog light means a light (other than a headlight) fitted to the front of a vehicle to improve illumination of the road in fog, snowfall, heavy rain or dust clouds.

rear fog light means a light (other than a brake light, a tail light, a number plate light or a reversing light) fitted to the rear of a vehicle to make the vehicle more easily visible from the rear in fog, snowfall, heavy rain or dust clouds.

Puhlease!!

Have you ever been distracted by fog lights? I know I haven’t. I have been distracted by normal headlights with their aim adjusted higher. Pretty much every other night.

As for double demerits, why not double the fine as well?

goggles13 said :

So Anzac Day is a one day public holiday for some and yet the police and government have the hide to enact their double demerit scheme for four days.

maybe I should take friday off from work since some are treating it as a public holiday.

or is this a way of encouraging motorists to do the right thing coming back from school holidays?

Actually, I think it’s five days, from the start of Wednesday to the end of Sunday.

Nearly had my comeuppance early this afternoon after posting this, with a slightly speedy overtaking manouevre, but the marked police car coming the other way must have been checking his Facebook page or something, or maybe (which is probably true) I only exceeded the limit for a second or so. (Marked police car, but in NSW – sorry ACTites.)

IP

Seems we only have double demerits in he ACT because NSW has them and we cannot be an island of sanity surrounded by insanity.

Why don’t we have enough coppers on the streets? Quite simple really? Because the size of the overhead is such they have all been promoted out of active roles. The coppers need a flatter structure with fewer promotions available.

On foglights? They can be a bloody nuisance depending on the vehicle they are fitted to and they actually impair the near field visibility for approaching drivers. Of a nighttime I mitigate the risk by just driving at them on high beam.

Roundhead89 said :

We’ve had this debate on RA before. Apparently there are two types of lights. Fog lights and Daytime Running Lights (DRLs). Someone said that driving with fog lights on is legal but DRLs are not. Or was it the other way around? Nobody seems to know and nobody has posted the relevant section of the road rules clarifying the situation.

Took me 30 seconds:

ARR 217 Using fog lights
1) The driver of a vehicle fitted with front fog lights or rear fog lights must not operate the fog light unless the driver is driving in fog or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility.

2) In this rule:
front fog light means a light (other than a headlight) fitted to the front of a vehicle to improve illumination of the road in fog, snowfall, heavy rain or dust clouds.

rear fog light means a light (other than a brake light, a tail light, a number plate light or a reversing light) fitted to the rear of a vehicle to make the vehicle more easily visible from the rear in fog, snowfall, heavy rain or dust clouds.

thebrownstreak69 said :

watto23 said :

p1 said :

watto23 said :

I should also note, police have more serious offences to deal with. If a driver has fog lights on is speeding and its not bright to their eyes near anyone else, whats the point of booking the driver, when more serious offences need to be dealt with.

Equally valid?

Seriously, if the fog lights are not a hinderance to other drivers, why book people for having them on? Speeding is always dangerous, so they should book someone speeding, the comparison is not valid. There are standard driving liughts that are too bright for my eyes, I just don’t get why people care about fog lights when the majority of the time they are not a hinderance and often help the driver see the road.

Speeding is not ‘always dangerous’, this is the BS that we’re fed to make us believe revenue cameras are there for ‘our safety’.

+1.

thebrownstreak69 said :

watto23 said :

magiccar9 said :

IrishPete said :

Same with fog lights, which are now left on all the time just in case there might be a little bit of fog tomorrow morning.

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

IP

YES! I totally agree IP. Although regarding the fog lights, I’ve seen quite a few Police Vehicles committing this offence – including one of the fancy Rapid cars.

You do understand that most fog lights are not fog lights under the law and thus can be turned on at any time? If they are no brighter than the cars standard headlights then they are not fog lights (even if the manufacturer markets them as such) and its not illegal to have them on.

Except the regular lights when not on high beam use prisms that scatter light below the middle of the lens, whereas fog light scatter evenly and thus appear migh brighter to oncoming traffic.

Fog lights are illegal during good weather, as they should be.

We’ve had this debate on RA before. Apparently there are two types of lights. Fog lights and Daytime Running Lights (DRLs). Someone said that driving with fog lights on is legal but DRLs are not. Or was it the other way around? Nobody seems to know and nobody has posted the relevant section of the road rules clarifying the situation.

watto23 said :

p1 said :

watto23 said :

I should also note, police have more serious offences to deal with. If a driver has fog lights on is speeding and its not bright to their eyes near anyone else, whats the point of booking the driver, when more serious offences need to be dealt with.

Equally valid?

Seriously, if the fog lights are not a hinderance to other drivers, why book people for having them on? Speeding is always dangerous, so they should book someone speeding, the comparison is not valid. There are standard driving liughts that are too bright for my eyes, I just don’t get why people care about fog lights when the majority of the time they are not a hinderance and often help the driver see the road.

Speeding is not ‘always dangerous’, this is the BS that we’re fed to make us believe revenue cameras are there for ‘our safety’.

watto23 said :

magiccar9 said :

IrishPete said :

Same with fog lights, which are now left on all the time just in case there might be a little bit of fog tomorrow morning.

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

IP

YES! I totally agree IP. Although regarding the fog lights, I’ve seen quite a few Police Vehicles committing this offence – including one of the fancy Rapid cars.

You do understand that most fog lights are not fog lights under the law and thus can be turned on at any time? If they are no brighter than the cars standard headlights then they are not fog lights (even if the manufacturer markets them as such) and its not illegal to have them on.

Except the regular lights when not on high beam use prisms that scatter light below the middle of the lens, whereas fog light scatter evenly and thus appear migh brighter to oncoming traffic.

Fog lights are illegal during good weather, as they should be.

p1 said :

watto23 said :

I should also note, police have more serious offences to deal with. If a driver has fog lights on is speeding and its not bright to their eyes near anyone else, whats the point of booking the driver, when more serious offences need to be dealt with.

Equally valid?

Seriously, if the fog lights are not a hinderance to other drivers, why book people for having them on? Speeding is always dangerous, so they should book someone speeding, the comparison is not valid. There are standard driving liughts that are too bright for my eyes, I just don’t get why people care about fog lights when the majority of the time they are not a hinderance and often help the driver see the road.

So I guess they’re assuming that everyone in the work force is taking Friday off, therefore making it a “holiday period”.

Tooks said :

bundah said :

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

Are there actually police on the roads these days?

Yep, sometimes there are as many as two or three cars for a whole patrol zone.

Sarcasm aside, There are bugger all police on patrol and that won’t change any time soon.

Therein lies the problem never enough around when they’re needed.Apparently Simon doesn’t think there’s a problem so as far as he’s concerned why would he bother trying to find additional funds to implement high visibility policing?

So Anzac Day is a one day public holiday for some and yet the police and government have the hide to enact their double demerit scheme for four days.

maybe I should take friday off from work since some are treating it as a public holiday.

or is this a way of encouraging motorists to do the right thing coming back from school holidays?

watto23 said :

I should also note, police have more serious offences to deal with. If a driver has fog lights on is speeding and its not bright to their eyes near anyone else, whats the point of booking the driver, when more serious offences need to be dealt with.

Equally valid?

watto23 said :

magiccar9 said :

IrishPete said :

Same with fog lights, which are now left on all the time just in case there might be a little bit of fog tomorrow morning.

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

IP

YES! I totally agree IP. Although regarding the fog lights, I’ve seen quite a few Police Vehicles committing this offence – including one of the fancy Rapid cars.

You do understand that most fog lights are not fog lights under the law and thus can be turned on at any time? If they are no brighter than the cars standard headlights then they are not fog lights (even if the manufacturer markets them as such) and its not illegal to have them on.

I should also note, police have more serious offences to deal with. If a driver has fog lights on and its not bright to their eyes, whats the point of booking the driver, when more serious offences need to be dealt with.

Reply

watto23 said :

magiccar9 said :

IrishPete said :

Same with fog lights, which are now left on all the time just in case there might be a little bit of fog tomorrow morning.

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

IP

YES! I totally agree IP. Although regarding the fog lights, I’ve seen quite a few Police Vehicles committing this offence – including one of the fancy Rapid cars.

You do understand that most fog lights are not fog lights under the law and thus can be turned on at any time? If they are no brighter than the cars standard headlights then they are not fog lights (even if the manufacturer markets them as such) and its not illegal to have them on.

Try again, 99.9999% of the extra lights that are in the bumper of a motor vehicle are certified at fog lamps, its not just a marketing ploy.

This is opposed to a day time running lamp which is on all the time (ala Volvos….) which is a smaller lap with less output.

There is no rule in the ADR’s that says that other lamps must be less intense than the head lamps, there are set rules for the colour and intensity of the light omitted from a particular lamp. All separate.

watto23 said :

magiccar9 said :

IrishPete said :

Same with fog lights, which are now left on all the time just in case there might be a little bit of fog tomorrow morning.

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

IP

YES! I totally agree IP. Although regarding the fog lights, I’ve seen quite a few Police Vehicles committing this offence – including one of the fancy Rapid cars.

You do understand that most fog lights are not fog lights under the law and thus can be turned on at any time? If they are no brighter than the cars standard headlights then they are not fog lights (even if the manufacturer markets them as such) and its not illegal to have them on.

You got a source on that. I doubt it.

Fog lights – lower down, emit flat wide beam to illuminate road surface. Never seen a definition of fog lights that mentions light output.

Let’s see your source.

magiccar9 said :

IrishPete said :

Same with fog lights, which are now left on all the time just in case there might be a little bit of fog tomorrow morning.

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

IP

YES! I totally agree IP. Although regarding the fog lights, I’ve seen quite a few Police Vehicles committing this offence – including one of the fancy Rapid cars.

You do understand that most fog lights are not fog lights under the law and thus can be turned on at any time? If they are no brighter than the cars standard headlights then they are not fog lights (even if the manufacturer markets them as such) and its not illegal to have them on.

Tooks said :

Sarcasm aside, There are bugger all police on patrol and that won’t change any time soon.

More police patrols would ruin their stats, and its all about the metrics.

No marked police patrols on the roads, and the speed cameras can be spotted by anyone even half awake.

And we wonder why we see bad behaviour on the roads.

bundah said :

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

Are there actually police on the roads these days?

Yep, sometimes there are as many as two or three cars for a whole patrol zone.

Sarcasm aside, There are bugger all police on patrol and that won’t change any time soon.

Check out the ACT Policing statistics for Traffic Infringement Notices from 2008-2012. In my suburb alone, they dropped from 181 (2008) to 107 (2009) to 55 (2010) to 62 (2011) to 22 (2012).

Because speed cameras.

bundah said :

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

Are there actually police on the roads these days?

The fact that I still hold a drivers license probably answers that question…

IrishPete said :

Same with fog lights, which are now left on all the time just in case there might be a little bit of fog tomorrow morning.

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

IP

YES! I totally agree IP. Although regarding the fog lights, I’ve seen quite a few Police Vehicles committing this offence – including one of the fancy Rapid cars.

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

Are there actually police on the roads these days?

Tooks said :

I agree. It should be double demerits for every offence. And I would make the double demerit period permanent.

Absolutely, then double them again on public holidays. (Yes, I’m being sarcastic.)

All the research says that the probability of getting caught is far more important in changing people’s behaviour than the penalty they receive in the highly unlikely event they get caught.

I am still seeing people driving in traffic using their handheld mobile phones. Quadrupling demerit points isn’t going to stop them – catching them will. Especdially tradfies and truck drivers who spend all day in their vehicles, who have absolutely no excuse for not buying a tax-deductible handsfree kit.

Same with fog lights, which are now left on all the time just in case there might be a little bit of fog tomorrow morning.

Perhaps the police need to stop choosing which offences are interesting enough to pull people up for, and do the job they have been given by the elected parliaments.

IP

magiccar9 said :

“…with an extra point for all other traffic offences.”

This really shirts me. Not only do they insist on pulling the double demerits card for every single occasion possible, they are now creating extra rules to throw into the bag. Why not just leave it as it – and if people still don’t get the message from it, possibly rethink the entire double demerits implementation from ground up…?

I agree. It should be double demerits for every offence. And I would make the double demerit period permanent.

“…with an extra point for all other traffic offences.”

This really shirts me. Not only do they insist on pulling the double demerits card for every single occasion possible, they are now creating extra rules to throw into the bag. Why not just leave it as it – and if people still don’t get the message from it, possibly rethink the entire double demerits implementation from ground up…?