Eastman innocent?

Another small piece to the jigsaw is again regarding the “shady AFP character” B * * * * I talked about at the beginning. His ex-sister-in-law C***** and her husband lived on a property east of Canberra. I remember arriving at B * * * *’s ex-wife’s house and the sister-in-law’s husband was just putting a very sensitive set of electronic scales in his bag. Nothing necessarily strange about that, but he took pains to tell me about how he needed very sensitive scales to weigh “printer’s ink” at a business where he was working. I did wonder afterwards why he was bothering to emphasise an “innocent use” for the scales to me. Later someone told me that he was growing a massive dope crop on his property and I understood his precautionary approach. Despite that slip, looking back I doubt I would have been allowed that close unless there was police protection in place.

LSWCHP said :

Ummm….nope. I’m still havin’ trouble working out who he is. More clues please.

This guy?

jcitizen said :

Classified said :

HenryBG said :

dpm said :

Wow, surely if even 1 of the 10 or so people who have commented on this thread with heaps of ‘inside’ knowledge had of come forward and given evidence (and, gasp, named names) at the Eastman trial, he surely would have got off! Sounds like the ‘inside’ experts are the ones who are responsible for him being in jail….?! No point crying about that fact now if you’re partly responsible.

What are you on about? The cops had all the evidence – they chose to not present the stuff which was inconvenient and to fabricate other stuff to fill the gaps in their bullshit story, including the non-sensical evidence from a forensic “expert” who had already been sacked for incompetence by the Vic police.
Eastman was convicted for the same reason Lindy Chamberlain was: cops & prosecutors of little ability and suffering from an idee fixe presenting a dishonest case.

Exactly – who should these people ‘come forward’ to?

the Royal Commision of Inquiry into the Conviction of David Eastman ?????????

Yeah, right.

Eastman innocent?

No

Next question

tankgirl said :

DDsmash said :

A great place to start is to explain what were the police doing growing dope with italians in Bungendore? answer that please, it has never been explained and I would love to know who said this was ok for the AFP to do this.They flipped it off as an effort to track crime networks but they did it to establish crime networks to train on.
Secondly if you think Eastman is a lunatic go and have a good look at that thug Eric Ninness, a senior officer in the AFP and a big player in operation Seville, according to Nick Pappas, who was representing Eastman at the time, Ninness was the first officer on the scene,why he didn’t call for road blocks?
Eastman was framed to avoid the police explaining why Winchester was shot for breaking the deal he made with mafia,it all unravelled when McKay got shot, then to young couriers were found dead in barrells just outside Griffith on the day of the Whitlams dissmisal, to Hollywood for you? well their it is. The AFP were out of control, look at the Masters report called Police Crop that ran in the eighties about the whole shamozzle, then you will see what a distraction the Winchester murder is from the AFP’s criminal culture!

Don’t forget the $50 million Guyra crop participants

and

a possible NCA secret Mafia witness that may have been replaced in 88 because the real one was shot with a ruger (wonder if its the same gun that killed winchester?) and his body may be dumped in Wyangala Dam (has this been investigated properly?) by an Eastern European who might have been posing as an AFP secret helper and pretending to the witness that he was going into witness protection but killed him instead, possibly in the presence of someone who was getting convicted with a lot of dope (they may have laughed at a “mere labourer” comment in a newspaper on another occasion when someone else may have been shot and a tongue cut out – this body is probably in Wyangala Dam too, or not far from it).

This eastern European guy is also the same person to tried to break in to the Czechoslovakian embassy in 88 and was also the mastermind behind a truck load of stolen scotch in 87. He also set a precedent for voice recording 96.

You should be able to work out who he is .

Ummm….nope. I’m still havin’ trouble working out who he is. More clues please.

Canberra Creative “Check the court records, he has over 25 cases to his name, Eastman has no credibility left.”

Ive always thought it was interesting that Eastman being an accomplished serial pest with the paperwork would switch MO and use a gun. Only once.

tankgirl said :

DDsmash said :

Don’t forget the $50 million Guyra crop participants

and

a possible NCA secret Mafia witness that may have been replaced in 88 because the real one was shot with a ruger (wonder if its the same gun that killed winchester?) and his body may be dumped in Wyangala Dam (has this been investigated properly?) by an Eastern European who might have been posing as an AFP secret helper and pretending to the witness that he was going into witness protection but killed him instead, possibly in the presence of someone who was getting convicted with a lot of dope (they may have laughed at a “mere labourer” comment in a newspaper on another occasion when someone else may have been shot and a tongue cut out – this body is probably in Wyangala Dam too, or not far from it).

This eastern European guy is also the same person to tried to break in to the Czechoslovakian embassy in 88 and was also the mastermind behind a truck load of stolen scotch in 87. He also set a precedent for voice recording 96.

You should be able to work out who he is .

I believe Eastman is innocent, I have my reasons.

Look, I’m all for credible stories and the analysis of any new evidence into the matter, but what the hell are you on about?

Type what you want to say, get someone else to read it, make any corrections they suggest, then post it.

You sound like a conspiracy theory nut who can’t communicate.

DDsmash said :

A great place to start is to explain what were the police doing growing dope with italians in Bungendore? answer that please, it has never been explained and I would love to know who said this was ok for the AFP to do this.They flipped it off as an effort to track crime networks but they did it to establish crime networks to train on.
Secondly if you think Eastman is a lunatic go and have a good look at that thug Eric Ninness, a senior officer in the AFP and a big player in operation Seville, according to Nick Pappas, who was representing Eastman at the time, Ninness was the first officer on the scene,why he didn’t call for road blocks?
Eastman was framed to avoid the police explaining why Winchester was shot for breaking the deal he made with mafia,it all unravelled when McKay got shot, then to young couriers were found dead in barrells just outside Griffith on the day of the Whitlams dissmisal, to Hollywood for you? well their it is. The AFP were out of control, look at the Masters report called Police Crop that ran in the eighties about the whole shamozzle, then you will see what a distraction the Winchester murder is from the AFP’s criminal culture!

Don’t forget the $50 million Guyra crop participants

and

a possible NCA secret Mafia witness that may have been replaced in 88 because the real one was shot with a ruger (wonder if its the same gun that killed winchester?) and his body may be dumped in Wyangala Dam (has this been investigated properly?) by an Eastern European who might have been posing as an AFP secret helper and pretending to the witness that he was going into witness protection but killed him instead, possibly in the presence of someone who was getting convicted with a lot of dope (they may have laughed at a “mere labourer” comment in a newspaper on another occasion when someone else may have been shot and a tongue cut out – this body is probably in Wyangala Dam too, or not far from it).

This eastern European guy is also the same person to tried to break in to the Czechoslovakian embassy in 88 and was also the mastermind behind a truck load of stolen scotch in 87. He also set a precedent for voice recording 96.

You should be able to work out who he is .

I believe Eastman is innocent, I have my reasons.

Blondcat said :

creative_canberran said :

aceofspades said :

You surprise me Thumper, I pictured you much more switched on…

“As background to Winchester’s murder the following extract from the New South Wales Legislative Assembly Hansard for Thursday 17 May 1990 is illuminating.”

In short Mr. HATTON (South Coast) calls for a Royal Commission to investigate exactly what DDsmash describes.

This post is directly ripped off from this website: http://blakandblack.com/

The Hansard referred to is actually 11 May 1994. The website he ripped the text off has the wrong date, which says a lot about the credibility of the site.

The site is run by Mark Mullins, a former public servant according to the site who is “working on a PhD titled Corruption and Racism in the Australian Federal Police and the death of Australia’s democracy.”

The site owner harbours a personal vendetta against the AFP, public service and in general europeans because of perceived injustices to him in the past and the invasion of his traditional country.

Some of the site is simply incoherent, like this tidbit:
“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

RE: Commenter 78 Creative_Canberran. Not sure about the accuracy of Hansard reference, but the sentence you noted with distain, namely:

“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

I’m not sure if English is your first language, but the comment makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps you are unaware of what obfuscation means or you’re not familiar with the term Manchu, which I thought was common parlance for most public servants. While I don’t know this person personally I do note that he has a number of publications down the side bar of his blog. I have also found reference to him in the Indian, Russian and French press. Perhaps we should as good citizens refrain from badmouthing each other until we check all the facts.

Blondcat said :

creative_canberran said :

aceofspades said :

You surprise me Thumper, I pictured you much more switched on…

“As background to Winchester’s murder the following extract from the New South Wales Legislative Assembly Hansard for Thursday 17 May 1990 is illuminating.”

In short Mr. HATTON (South Coast) calls for a Royal Commission to investigate exactly what DDsmash describes.

This post is directly ripped off from this website: http://blakandblack.com/

The Hansard referred to is actually 11 May 1994. The website he ripped the text off has the wrong date, which says a lot about the credibility of the site.

The site is run by Mark Mullins, a former public servant according to the site who is “working on a PhD titled Corruption and Racism in the Australian Federal Police and the death of Australia’s democracy.”

The site owner harbours a personal vendetta against the AFP, public service and in general europeans because of perceived injustices to him in the past and the invasion of his traditional country.

Some of the site is simply incoherent, like this tidbit:
“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

RE: Commenter 78 Creative_Canberran. Not sure about the accuracy of Hansard reference, but the sentence you noted with distain, namely:

“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

I’m not sure if English is your first language, but the comment makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps you are unaware of what obfuscation means or you’re not familiar with the term Manchu, which I thought was common parlance for most public servants. While I don’t know this person personally I do note that he has a number of publications down the side bar of his blog. I have also found reference to him in the Indian, Russian and French press. Perhaps we should as good citizens refrain from badmouthing each other until we check all the facts.

Blondcat said :

creative_canberran said :

aceofspades said :

You surprise me Thumper, I pictured you much more switched on…

“As background to Winchester’s murder the following extract from the New South Wales Legislative Assembly Hansard for Thursday 17 May 1990 is illuminating.”

In short Mr. HATTON (South Coast) calls for a Royal Commission to investigate exactly what DDsmash describes.

This post is directly ripped off from this website: http://blakandblack.com/

The Hansard referred to is actually 11 May 1994. The website he ripped the text off has the wrong date, which says a lot about the credibility of the site.

The site is run by Mark Mullins, a former public servant according to the site who is “working on a PhD titled Corruption and Racism in the Australian Federal Police and the death of Australia’s democracy.”

The site owner harbours a personal vendetta against the AFP, public service and in general europeans because of perceived injustices to him in the past and the invasion of his traditional country.

Some of the site is simply incoherent, like this tidbit:
“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

RE: Commenter 78 Creative_Canberran. Not sure about the accuracy of Hansard reference, but the sentence you noted with distain, namely:

“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

I’m not sure if English is your first language, but the comment makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps you are unaware of what obfuscation means or you’re not familiar with the term Manchu, which I thought was common parlance for most public servants. While I don’t know this person personally I do note that he has a number of publications down the side bar of his blog. I have also found reference to him in the Indian, Russian and French press. Perhaps we should as good citizens refrain from badmouthing each other until we check all the facts.

Hello again Creative_Canberran,

I have just had a close look at Blak and Black specifically to the article you linked to. I have followed the links of Blak and Black’s post Have the AFP been busted, yet again? And they lead to a PDF of NSW Hansard with the correct text as per the post and bearing the date 17 May, 1990. Are you sure you checked the links before publishing your comments?

creative_canberran said :

aceofspades said :

You surprise me Thumper, I pictured you much more switched on…

“As background to Winchester’s murder the following extract from the New South Wales Legislative Assembly Hansard for Thursday 17 May 1990 is illuminating.”

In short Mr. HATTON (South Coast) calls for a Royal Commission to investigate exactly what DDsmash describes.

This post is directly ripped off from this website: http://blakandblack.com/

The Hansard referred to is actually 11 May 1994. The website he ripped the text off has the wrong date, which says a lot about the credibility of the site.

The site is run by Mark Mullins, a former public servant according to the site who is “working on a PhD titled Corruption and Racism in the Australian Federal Police and the death of Australia’s democracy.”

The site owner harbours a personal vendetta against the AFP, public service and in general europeans because of perceived injustices to him in the past and the invasion of his traditional country.

Some of the site is simply incoherent, like this tidbit:
“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

RE: Commenter 78 Creative_Canberran. Not sure about the accuracy of Hansard reference, but the sentence you noted with distain, namely:

“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

I’m not sure if English is your first language, but the comment makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps you are unaware of what obfuscation means or you’re not familiar with the term Manchu, which I thought was common parlance for most public servants. While I don’t know this person personally I do note that he has a number of publications down the side bar of his blog. I have also found reference to him in the Indian, Russian and French press. Perhaps we should as good citizens refrain from badmouthing each other until we check all the facts.

dpm said :

Classified said :

HenryBG said :

dpm said :

Wow, surely if even 1 of the 10 or so people who have commented on this thread with heaps of ‘inside’ knowledge had of come forward and given evidence (and, gasp, named names) at the Eastman trial, he surely would have got off! Sounds like the ‘inside’ experts are the ones who are responsible for him being in jail….?! No point crying about that fact now if you’re partly responsible.

What are you on about? The cops had all the evidence – they chose to not present the stuff which was inconvenient and to fabricate other stuff to fill the gaps in their bullshit story, including the non-sensical evidence from a forensic “expert” who had already been sacked for incompetence by the Vic police.
Eastman was convicted for the same reason Lindy Chamberlain was: cops & prosecutors of little ability and suffering from an idee fixe presenting a dishonest case.

Exactly – who should these people ‘come forward’ to?

I’m fairly stupid but to my reading of all this, there are two types of info that people could be posting to this thread:
1) Urban legend or other rumours that are of no real use (e.g. to Eastman – the guy this post is about) except to make the poster look ‘in the know’, when there is no way of knoing what is true and what is not. If the info is this type, then why bother posting it? IMO, it just looks like conspiracy theory ramblings to lots of other people reading and commenting on this thread (there appear to be various comments along these lines-including classics about the gay mafia!). Or,
2) Actual info on what really happened, that they can proove. This info would be of real use to the case. As for who to tell? I suppose since the cops are supposedly all corrupt, there is always the CT guy (that that this post is also about)? I’m sure he’d love to hear new evidence that would break the case! Imagine being involved in breaking the biggest corruption case in ACT’s history! Of course as I said before, if it is this sort of info lots of people apparently have, then why is Eastman sitting in prison? Is it because there are/were so many corrupt cops that they controlled the law system too – and none of this evidence could make it’s way to the defence at all? (i’m just wondering, seriously!)

Anyway, that’s just my boring logic of the thread so far, but i’m easily confused.

The other thing that seems logical to me is, if even some of the stuff about corrupt cops being involved is true, and I had info that seemed to be pointing this out, I wouldn’t be coming on RA (thinking I was ‘anon’) and telling people that I knew all about it! There may be shadowy APF members on their way to JB’s office right now to collect contact details….! 😉

wow this is like trying to debate carbon tax policy without being called a denier.

None of the sensible posts in this thread are alleging corruption, what is being alleged is that as part of a legitimate investigation Winchester accepted money to protect a grass crop. This money was reported and accounted for. Unfortunately for reasons unknown to me that crop was not “protected” and organised crime figures felt they had been betrayed. this is why the AFP travelled to Italy and what is alleged in Masters documentary.

I dont know if this is why and how he got shot (or if Eastman did it) but the police focus on sending him crazy (publicly quoted at the time) and the fact that he was clearly bat shit insane makes a few of us wonder whether he received a quality defence or was fit to instruct his legal team in a complex case of purely circumstantial evidence..

Classified said :

HenryBG said :

dpm said :

Wow, surely if even 1 of the 10 or so people who have commented on this thread with heaps of ‘inside’ knowledge had of come forward and given evidence (and, gasp, named names) at the Eastman trial, he surely would have got off! Sounds like the ‘inside’ experts are the ones who are responsible for him being in jail….?! No point crying about that fact now if you’re partly responsible.

What are you on about? The cops had all the evidence – they chose to not present the stuff which was inconvenient and to fabricate other stuff to fill the gaps in their bullshit story, including the non-sensical evidence from a forensic “expert” who had already been sacked for incompetence by the Vic police.
Eastman was convicted for the same reason Lindy Chamberlain was: cops & prosecutors of little ability and suffering from an idee fixe presenting a dishonest case.

Exactly – who should these people ‘come forward’ to?

I’m fairly stupid but to my reading of all this, there are two types of info that people could be posting to this thread:
1) Urban legend or other rumours that are of no real use (e.g. to Eastman – the guy this post is about) except to make the poster look ‘in the know’, when there is no way of knoing what is true and what is not. If the info is this type, then why bother posting it? IMO, it just looks like conspiracy theory ramblings to lots of other people reading and commenting on this thread (there appear to be various comments along these lines-including classics about the gay mafia!). Or,
2) Actual info on what really happened, that they can proove. This info would be of real use to the case. As for who to tell? I suppose since the cops are supposedly all corrupt, there is always the CT guy (that that this post is also about)? I’m sure he’d love to hear new evidence that would break the case! Imagine being involved in breaking the biggest corruption case in ACT’s history! Of course as I said before, if it is this sort of info lots of people apparently have, then why is Eastman sitting in prison? Is it because there are/were so many corrupt cops that they controlled the law system too – and none of this evidence could make it’s way to the defence at all? (i’m just wondering, seriously!)

Anyway, that’s just my boring logic of the thread so far, but i’m easily confused.

The other thing that seems logical to me is, if even some of the stuff about corrupt cops being involved is true, and I had info that seemed to be pointing this out, I wouldn’t be coming on RA (thinking I was ‘anon’) and telling people that I knew all about it! There may be shadowy APF members on their way to JB’s office right now to collect contact details….! 😉

Classified said :

HenryBG said :

dpm said :

Wow, surely if even 1 of the 10 or so people who have commented on this thread with heaps of ‘inside’ knowledge had of come forward and given evidence (and, gasp, named names) at the Eastman trial, he surely would have got off! Sounds like the ‘inside’ experts are the ones who are responsible for him being in jail….?! No point crying about that fact now if you’re partly responsible.

What are you on about? The cops had all the evidence – they chose to not present the stuff which was inconvenient and to fabricate other stuff to fill the gaps in their bullshit story, including the non-sensical evidence from a forensic “expert” who had already been sacked for incompetence by the Vic police.
Eastman was convicted for the same reason Lindy Chamberlain was: cops & prosecutors of little ability and suffering from an idee fixe presenting a dishonest case.

Exactly – who should these people ‘come forward’ to?

the Royal Commision of Inquiry into the Conviction of David Eastman ?????????

HenryBG said :

dpm said :

Wow, surely if even 1 of the 10 or so people who have commented on this thread with heaps of ‘inside’ knowledge had of come forward and given evidence (and, gasp, named names) at the Eastman trial, he surely would have got off! Sounds like the ‘inside’ experts are the ones who are responsible for him being in jail….?! No point crying about that fact now if you’re partly responsible.

What are you on about? The cops had all the evidence – they chose to not present the stuff which was inconvenient and to fabricate other stuff to fill the gaps in their bullshit story, including the non-sensical evidence from a forensic “expert” who had already been sacked for incompetence by the Vic police.
Eastman was convicted for the same reason Lindy Chamberlain was: cops & prosecutors of little ability and suffering from an idee fixe presenting a dishonest case.

Exactly – who should these people ‘come forward’ to?

dungfungus said :

creative_canberran said :

qbngeek said :

Should we meet and discuss it at Costco or DFO, maybe somwhere else in Fyshwick or even a Mitchell. I heard there was a Mitchell Fire not long ago. 🙂 🙂

Now now, we all know the Mitchell fire and huge smoke plume was just a cover for the take off of the mother ship that was being hidden at the AWM Annex.
The loud explosions were just the sound of one of the saucer people trying to get the sticky transmission from 4th to 5th.

While you may trivialise this discussion, most Canberrans with inside knowledge of the AFP 20 -30 years ago would know that regular meetings were held over lunch with “colourful racing identities” at a certain seafood restaurant in Fyshwick which was owned by another “colourful gaming identity”. .

repeat that and I will sue.

dpm said :

Wow, surely if even 1 of the 10 or so people who have commented on this thread with heaps of ‘inside’ knowledge had of come forward and given evidence (and, gasp, named names) at the Eastman trial, he surely would have got off! Sounds like the ‘inside’ experts are the ones who are responsible for him being in jail….?! No point crying about that fact now if you’re partly responsible.

What are you on about? The cops had all the evidence – they chose to not present the stuff which was inconvenient and to fabricate other stuff to fill the gaps in their bullshit story, including the non-sensical evidence from a forensic “expert” who had already been sacked for incompetence by the Vic police.
Eastman was convicted for the same reason Lindy Chamberlain was: cops & prosecutors of little ability and suffering from an idee fixe presenting a dishonest case.

dpm said :

Wow, surely if even 1 of the 10 or so people who have commented on this thread with heaps of ‘inside’ knowledge had of come forward and given evidence (and, gasp, named names) at the Eastman trial, he surely would have got off! Sounds like the ‘inside’ experts are the ones who are responsible for him being in jail….?! No point crying about that fact now if you’re partly responsible.

I dont blame them for not comming forward with information back then, in the “good old wild days”.They may well have been silenced by more permanent means back then for not sticking to the plan or ojectives.
Look at what happens when you do” break ranks”or do present some information that does not fit the one sided objectives of the “elite circle” on this site.

creative_canberran said :

qbngeek said :

Should we meet and discuss it at Costco or DFO, maybe somwhere else in Fyshwick or even a Mitchell. I heard there was a Mitchell Fire not long ago. 🙂 🙂

Now now, we all know the Mitchell fire and huge smoke plume was just a cover for the take off of the mother ship that was being hidden at the AWM Annex.
The loud explosions was just the sound of one of the saucer people trying to get the stocky transmission from 4th to 5th.

Dont you just love this “new age” of conformists and thier methods.
I suggest that the only ones crying here are the ones with the “conform or be cast out ” attitude.The truth may hurt them.
Heaven help those who just would like the truth to come out into the open.
Limited
Very Limited

You comment ninja, dont leave us hanging! What about the chocolate shop? I usually use it multiple times a week for an emergency jelly bean or sandwich and never saw anything weird! What used too happen there?

cranky said :

While you may trivialise this discussion, most Canberrans with inside knowledge of the AFP 20 -30 years ago would know that regular meetings were held over lunch with “colourful racing identities” at a certain seafood restaurant in Fyshwick which was owned by another “colourful gaming identity”.

And don’t forget the “chocolate shop” in Manuka …

While you may trivialise this discussion, most Canberrans with inside knowledge of the AFP 20 -30 years ago would know that regular meetings were held over lunch with “colourful racing identities” at a certain seafood restaurant in Fyshwick which was owned by another “colourful gaming identity”. This restaurant was not far from a certain brothel that a AFP officer with a pugilistic nickname had a financial interest in; probably the same brothel that Eastman allegedly used.
These links have never been investigated or if they have the outcomes were never made public.

At about the same time, senior AFP/Canberra Police were regular attendees at a ‘casino’ on Brisbane Ave, Barton. Coincidently, these premises later became the AFP training college.

One of the reputed principals of this business happened to be the father of one of the two ‘persons of interest’ thrown up in the disapearance of Megan Mulquiney.

http://the-riotact.com/missing-women-cold-cases-in-canberra/7600

Wow, surely if even 1 of the 10 or so people who have commented on this thread with heaps of ‘inside’ knowledge had of come forward and given evidence (and, gasp, named names) at the Eastman trial, he surely would have got off! Sounds like the ‘inside’ experts are the ones who are responsible for him being in jail….?! No point crying about that fact now if you’re partly responsible.

creative_canberran said :

qbngeek said :

Should we meet and discuss it at Costco or DFO, maybe somwhere else in Fyshwick or even a Mitchell. I heard there was a Mitchell Fire not long ago. 🙂 🙂

Now now, we all know the Mitchell fire and huge smoke plume was just a cover for the take off of the mother ship that was being hidden at the AWM Annex.
The loud explosions were just the sound of one of the saucer people trying to get the sticky transmission from 4th to 5th.

While you may trivialise this discussion, most Canberrans with inside knowledge of the AFP 20 -30 years ago would know that regular meetings were held over lunch with “colourful racing identities” at a certain seafood restaurant in Fyshwick which was owned by another “colourful gaming identity”. This restaurant was not far from a certain brothel that a AFP officer with a pugilistic nickname had a financial interest in; probably the same brothel that Eastman allegedly used.
These links have never been investigated or if they have the outcomes were never made public.

p1 said :

obamabinladen said :

….is because the general public in most instances aren’t stupid.

This is at odds with my experience.

Mine too.

qbngeek said :

Should we meet and discuss it at Costco or DFO, maybe somwhere else in Fyshwick or even a Mitchell. I heard there was a Mitchell Fire not long ago. 🙂 🙂

Now now, we all know the Mitchell fire and huge smoke plume was just a cover for the take off of the mother ship that was being hidden at the AWM Annex.
The loud explosions were just the sound of one of the saucer people trying to get the sticky transmission from 4th to 5th.

qbngeek said :

Should we meet and discuss it at Costco or DFO, maybe somwhere else in Fyshwick or even a Mitchell. I heard there was a Mitchell Fire not long ago. 🙂 🙂

Now now, we all know the Mitchell fire and huge smoke plume was just a cover for the take off of the mother ship that was being hidden at the AWM Annex.
The loud explosions was just the sound of one of the saucer people trying to get the stocky transmission from 4th to 5th.

Tooks said :

HenryBG said :

Tooks said :

HenryBG said :

Why would the AFP investigation travel to Italy, hmmm?
“Rumour, innuendo and conspiracy theory”?

Duh, maybe to properly investigate the kind of claims made by people like yourself. If they didn’t investigate the alleged corruption allegations, you’d scream corruption. You really have no idea, do you?

So – throw up some “conspiracy theory” and the AFP will travel all the way to Italy just to make sure there’s nothing in it?

Don’t know. Do you have a source for that (talking about the two suspects)? Thought not.

You just admitted the AFP investigation travelled to Italy in relation to the Winchester murder.
Now you’re trying to deny it?
Are you clueless or dishonest?

And they wonder why so many Canberrans don’t trust the integrity of their police force….

I’ll leave you with three links with which to educate yourself on the ways of the world:

1/ AFP incompetence results in multi-million-dollar payout to investigation target:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/haneef-given-substantial-payout-govt-20101221-194av.html

2/ Cops so over-confident in their meagre detective skills they felt it was OK to fake evidence to secure a conviction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_six

3/ Same as above
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_Four

Happens all the time.
Same happened here – with no substantive evidence against him, and being so very sure he had done it, the AFP did not conduct a real investigation but just railroaded Eastman instead.

Classified said :

johnboy said :

p1 said :

When you consider that this one single thread includes a whole bunch of search terms frequently reported in the “State of the Riot” as being riotact’s most popular (Anu Singh, Gay Beats, Mully, Eastman, Winchester, etc), I have a new theory to share:

I think John Boy whacked Winchester and framed Eastman in order to use this threat to boost page rankings.

This may or may not have had anything to do with being overcharged for pizza, but certainly involved a grass knoll.

Needs more reptoids!

What are the implications for the GDE?

Should we meet and discuss it at Costco or DFO, maybe somwhere else in Fyshwick or even a Mitchell. I heard there was a Mitchell Fire not long ago. 🙂 🙂

Erg0 said :

p1 said :

Erg0 said :

Jim Jones said :

The gay mafia (ruled by a corrupt police force and headed by Constable Kenny Koala) is surely behind the whole thing.

I heard they flew a couple of professionals in from Mykonos.

The gay mafia is based in Mykonos?

Too obscure? From the posts above, I’ve learned that it’s necessary to include at least one exotic location in your conspiracy theory to make it sound credible, and it was the best I could manage at short notice.

Should have said Lesbos. 😉

p1 said :

Erg0 said :

Jim Jones said :

The gay mafia (ruled by a corrupt police force and headed by Constable Kenny Koala) is surely behind the whole thing.

I heard they flew a couple of professionals in from Mykonos.

The gay mafia is based in Mykonos?

Too obscure? From the posts above, I’ve learned that it’s necessary to include at least one exotic location in your conspiracy theory to make it sound credible, and it was the best I could manage at short notice.

amarooresident3 said Some of the site is simply incoherent, like this tidbit:
“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

That seems a pretty coherent summary of our nations politics at the moment.

Erg0 said :

Jim Jones said :

The gay mafia (ruled by a corrupt police force and headed by Constable Kenny Koala) is surely behind the whole thing.

I heard they flew a couple of professionals in from Mykonos.

The gay mafia is based in Mykonos?

creative_canberran said :

aceofspades said :

You surprise me Thumper, I pictured you much more switched on…

“As background to Winchester’s murder the following extract from the New South Wales Legislative Assembly Hansard for Thursday 17 May 1990 is illuminating.”

In short Mr. HATTON (South Coast) calls for a Royal Commission to investigate exactly what DDsmash describes.

This post is directly ripped off from this website: http://blakandblack.com/

The Hansard referred to is actually 11 May 1994. The website he ripped the text off has the wrong date, which says a lot about the credibility of the site.

The site is run by Mark Mullins, a former public servant according to the site who is “working on a PhD titled Corruption and Racism in the Australian Federal Police and the death of Australia’s democracy.”

The site owner harbours a personal vendetta against the AFP, public service and in general europeans because of perceived injustices to him in the past and the invasion of his traditional country.

Some of the site is simply incoherent, like this tidbit:
“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

Is this the infamous Mark Mullins formerly of ACT Treasury?

Jim Jones said :

Waiting For Godot said :

Something a lot of people don’t remember is that Capital Seven (the only commercial station in Canberra at the time and the only station showing a locally produced news bulletin) did an expose of gay beats in Canberra in October 1988 which included an interview with Winchester saying that his officers would “stamp this out in Canberra”. Winchester was shot three months later.

After Eastman was charged, AFP spokesmen said that Winchester was homosexual and this was mentioned during the court cases.

I know it is drawing a long bow, but could Eastman have seen that report and interview on TV and taken Eastman out in retribution?

The gay mafia (ruled by a corrupt police force and headed by Constable Kenny Koala) is surely behind the whole thing.

I heard they flew a couple of professionals in from Mykonos.

ACT policing uses hundreds of “informants”.They were working on “driving Eastman nuts” long before the murder.Senior policeman at the time admitted it to me. Eastman was perfect PATSY as no one liked him then and therefore no one would care whether he did it or not.

To the former members of the AFP, great to see some objectivity. Thats the level of integrity the public need to know is involved in law enforcment.
Can you outline for me how a major operation like operation Seville is set up. Who signs off on to green light such a major operation. As out lined above it seems by all accounts Winchester was not on the graft and via a marrige in my family i know another senior officer who was involved who, not want to be seen on the take, scattered pounds of pot under his house to rot as he did not know what else to do with it. So clearly these men were involved through just doing their job, they had good intentions. Now Chris Masters outlined the objective of the operation was to infiltrate criminal networks. This was done by distributing the dope from the back of a truck and writing down all the number plates and then tracking them.
In its genesis is probably seemed like a brillaint idea but clearly it brought about a mayhem that has forever tarred the AFP.
Who’s idea was it, Winchester?, was it the drug squad or another individual, how did the AFP work back in those earlier days and did they have to the let a minister or any senior public officials know what they were doing.

Kuku said :

From what I can gather many of the serving members of the AFP who are on this site, were not in the job when Winchester was murdered. They are currently serving, therefore will defend the AFP and past convictions in the absence of new evidence.

And most of what has been posted is rumour and innuendo about corruption in the AFP and/or Eastman’s behaviour.

I was in the job when it happened and I can tell you many members had doubts about what really happened and believe me, I’ve heard most of the ‘theories’ that have been posted here. I also think that time may have clouded memories and some of you are thinking about Robert Trimbole’s extradition from Ireland (or lack thereof) and confusing that with McKay’s death, Calabrian Mafia and alleged corruption.

I have also had dealings with Eastman and whilst he does not do himself any favours he is often baited to behave in a certain way.

Now there is allegedly new evidence regarding his conviction. The test of a mature law enforcement organisation is to see if they will consider and then test that evidence. If it proves to be material to the facts in issue, then I would expect nothing more than a reopening of the investigation and a thorough and rigorous retesting of the evidence at hand….without the emotion about Eastman’s behaviour.

5 stars!

krats said :

Kuku said :

From what I can gather many of the serving members of the AFP who are on this site, were not in the job when Winchester was murdered. They are currently serving, therefore will defend the AFP and past convictions in the absence of new evidence.

And most of what has been posted is rumour and innuendo about corruption in the AFP and/or Eastman’s behaviour.

I was in the job when it happened and I can tell you many members had doubts about what really happened and believe me, I’ve heard most of the ‘theories’ that have been posted here. I also think that time may have clouded memories and some of you are thinking about Robert Trimbole’s extradition from Ireland (or lack thereof) and confusing that with McKay’s death, Calabrian Mafia and alleged corruption.

I have also had dealings with Eastman and whilst he does not do himself any favours he is often baited to behave in a certain way.

Now there is allegedly new evidence regarding his conviction. The test of a mature law enforcement organisation is to see if they will consider and then test that evidence. If it proves to be material to the facts in issue, then I would expect nothing more than a reopening of the investigation and a thorough and rigorous retesting of the evidence at hand….without the emotion about Eastman’s behaviour.

Well Said!! +1

I am an ex AFP and have extensive dealings with Mr Eastman. I totally agree with Kuku.

Pork Hunt said :

Correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s been a rifle in a safe for nigh on 22 years.

Why has no one at the safe owners asked ” what the phuck is this rifle in the safe year after year” ?

Everybody Thought Somebody Should Ask,But In The End Nobody Did!!

Kuku said :

From what I can gather many of the serving members of the AFP who are on this site, were not in the job when Winchester was murdered. They are currently serving, therefore will defend the AFP and past convictions in the absence of new evidence.

And most of what has been posted is rumour and innuendo about corruption in the AFP and/or Eastman’s behaviour.

I was in the job when it happened and I can tell you many members had doubts about what really happened and believe me, I’ve heard most of the ‘theories’ that have been posted here. I also think that time may have clouded memories and some of you are thinking about Robert Trimbole’s extradition from Ireland (or lack thereof) and confusing that with McKay’s death, Calabrian Mafia and alleged corruption.

I have also had dealings with Eastman and whilst he does not do himself any favours he is often baited to behave in a certain way.

Now there is allegedly new evidence regarding his conviction. The test of a mature law enforcement organisation is to see if they will consider and then test that evidence. If it proves to be material to the facts in issue, then I would expect nothing more than a reopening of the investigation and a thorough and rigorous retesting of the evidence at hand….without the emotion about Eastman’s behaviour.

Well Said!! +1

Kuku said :

From what I can gather many of the serving members of the AFP who are on this site, were not in the job when Winchester was murdered. They are currently serving, therefore will defend the AFP and past convictions in the absence of new evidence.

And most of what has been posted is rumour and innuendo about corruption in the AFP and/or Eastman’s behaviour.

I was in the job when it happened and I can tell you many members had doubts about what really happened and believe me, I’ve heard most of the ‘theories’ that have been posted here. I also think that time may have clouded memories and some of you are thinking about Robert Trimbole’s extradition from Ireland (or lack thereof) and confusing that with McKay’s death, Calabrian Mafia and alleged corruption.

I have also had dealings with Eastman and whilst he does not do himself any favours he is often baited to behave in a certain way.

Now there is allegedly new evidence regarding his conviction. The test of a mature law enforcement organisation is to see if they will consider and then test that evidence. If it proves to be material to the facts in issue, then I would expect nothing more than a reopening of the investigation and a thorough and rigorous retesting of the evidence at hand….without the emotion about Eastman’s behaviour.

well said.
finally.

From what I can gather many of the serving members of the AFP who are on this site, were not in the job when Winchester was murdered. They are currently serving, therefore will defend the AFP and past convictions in the absence of new evidence.

And most of what has been posted is rumour and innuendo about corruption in the AFP and/or Eastman’s behaviour.

I was in the job when it happened and I can tell you many members had doubts about what really happened and believe me, I’ve heard most of the ‘theories’ that have been posted here. I also think that time may have clouded memories and some of you are thinking about Robert Trimbole’s extradition from Ireland (or lack thereof) and confusing that with McKay’s death, Calabrian Mafia and alleged corruption.

I have also had dealings with Eastman and whilst he does not do himself any favours he is often baited to behave in a certain way.

Now there is allegedly new evidence regarding his conviction. The test of a mature law enforcement organisation is to see if they will consider and then test that evidence. If it proves to be material to the facts in issue, then I would expect nothing more than a reopening of the investigation and a thorough and rigorous retesting of the evidence at hand….without the emotion about Eastman’s behaviour.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s been a rifle in a safe for nigh on 22 years.

Why has no one at the safe owners asked ” what the phuck is this rifle in the safe year after year” ?

PBO said :

Maybe it was the militant wing of the gay mafia?

Jim Jones said :

The gay mafia (ruled by a corrupt police force and headed by Constable Kenny Koala) is surely behind the whole thing.

Hahahahahaha! Too funny!! 🙂

Tooks said :

HenryBG said :

Tooks said :

HenryBG said :

Why would the AFP investigation travel to Italy, hmmm?
“Rumour, innuendo and conspiracy theory”?

Duh, maybe to properly investigate the kind of claims made by people like yourself. If they didn’t investigate the alleged corruption allegations, you’d scream corruption. You really have no idea, do you?

So – throw up some “conspiracy theory” and the AFP will travel all the way to Italy just to make sure there’s nothing in it?
Dedicated little bunnies, aren’t they?
Not quite dedicated enough to investigate two very likely murder suspects until 4 years after the crime, though. Very reluctantly, at that. Didn’t the DPP have to strongly insist they go before they’d do it?

I think you just dug your hole a little deeper there, Tooks. Keep up the good work.

Don’t know. Do you have a source for that (talking about the two suspects)? Thought not.

Sorry mate, but I have a long held opinion that most conspiracy theorists are just short of being full-blown retards. Nothing on this thread has convinced me otherwise.

I’m done with this thread now, but if you can ever offer any proof to back up your theories and prove me wrong, start a new thread and I’ll happily concede defeat.

I’ll leave you with some food for thought:

Allegations of corruption were also raised, seemingly on the basis of the old adage that where there was smoke, there was fire. It was whispered that honest cops didn’t get assassinated. But extensive investigations showed there was no basis to these rumours, and an independent auditor found that with no unexplained wealth to his name, it was unlikely that Colin Winchester had been on the take.

The case was scrutinised from all angles, pulled apart by the media and subject to several appeals launched by David Eastman. But the jury’s verdict has held, a testament to the quality of the original investigation.

Police were also pursuing another line of inquiry, one that was far less appealing to the media. David Harold Eastman was a public servant facing charges relating to a minor assault. He had argued with the police chief about the matter, and demanded the charges be dropped. The day Colin Winchester was shot was the day David Eastman found out the charges would proceed.

During the trial Justice Kenneth Carruthers described the scientific aspect of the investigation as “one of the most skilled, sophisticated and determined forensic investigations in the history of criminal investigation in Australia”.

I’m off to find another fishing hole.

Isnt that what carp do, muddy one hole and then moove on to the next?

johnboy said :

p1 said :

When you consider that this one single thread includes a whole bunch of search terms frequently reported in the “State of the Riot” as being riotact’s most popular (Anu Singh, Gay Beats, Mully, Eastman, Winchester, etc), I have a new theory to share:

I think John Boy whacked Winchester and framed Eastman in order to use this threat to boost page rankings.

This may or may not have had anything to do with being overcharged for pizza, but certainly involved a grass knoll.

Needs more reptoids!

What are the implications for the GDE?

p1 said :

When you consider that this one single thread includes a whole bunch of search terms frequently reported in the “State of the Riot” as being riotact’s most popular (Anu Singh, Gay Beats, Mully, Eastman, Winchester, etc), I have a new theory to share:

I think John Boy whacked Winchester and framed Eastman in order to use this threat to boost page rankings.

This may or may not have had anything to do with being overcharged for pizza, but certainly involved a grass knoll.

Needs more reptoids!

When you consider that this one single thread includes a whole bunch of search terms frequently reported in the “State of the Riot” as being riotact’s most popular (Anu Singh, Gay Beats, Mully, Eastman, Winchester, etc), I have a new theory to share:

I think John Boy whacked Winchester and framed Eastman in order to use this threat to boost page rankings.

This may or may not have had anything to do with being overcharged for pizza, but certainly involved a grass knoll.

I-filed said :

creative_canberran said :

“Well, sometimes I get so- frustrated I could just get a gun and kill someone”.

How many people, in all seriousness, haven’t made some kind of empty threat of violence? On the basis of empty threats like that one, we could all be convicted of something.

And the police conveniently had this reported and on record before Winchester was shot…………….

Waiting For Godot said :

Something a lot of people don’t remember is that Capital Seven (the only commercial station in Canberra at the time and the only station showing a locally produced news bulletin) did an expose of gay beats in Canberra in October 1988 which included an interview with Winchester saying that his officers would “stamp this out in Canberra”. Winchester was shot three months later.

After Eastman was charged, AFP spokesmen said that Winchester was homosexual and this was mentioned during the court cases.

I know it is drawing a long bow, but could Eastman have seen that report and interview on TV and taken Eastman out in retribution?

The gay mafia (ruled by a corrupt police force and headed by Constable Kenny Koala) is surely behind the whole thing.

Waiting For Godot said :

Something a lot of people don’t remember is that Capital Seven (the only commercial station in Canberra at the time and the only station showing a locally produced news bulletin) did an expose of gay beats in Canberra in October 1988 which included an interview with Winchester saying that his officers would “stamp this out in Canberra”. Winchester was shot three months later.

I know it is drawing a long bow, but could Eastman have seen that report and interview on TV and taken Eastman out in retribution?

Maybe it was the militant wing of the gay mafia?

obamabinladen said :

….is because the general public in most instances aren’t stupid.

This is at odds with my experience.

Waiting For Godot said :

Something a lot of people don’t remember is that Capital Seven (the only commercial station in Canberra at the time and the only station showing a locally produced news bulletin) did an expose of gay beats in Canberra in October 1988 which included an interview with Winchester saying that his officers would “stamp this out in Canberra”. Winchester was shot three months later.

After Eastman was charged, AFP spokesmen said that Winchester was homosexual and this was mentioned during the court cases.

I know it is drawing a long bow, but could Eastman have seen that report and interview on TV and taken Eastman out in retribution?

Sorry, I meant “taken Winchester out in retribution”

Something a lot of people don’t remember is that Capital Seven (the only commercial station in Canberra at the time and the only station showing a locally produced news bulletin) did an expose of gay beats in Canberra in October 1988 which included an interview with Winchester saying that his officers would “stamp this out in Canberra”. Winchester was shot three months later.

After Eastman was charged, AFP spokesmen said that Winchester was homosexual and this was mentioned during the court cases.

I know it is drawing a long bow, but could Eastman have seen that report and interview on TV and taken Eastman out in retribution?

Tooks said :

Eastman is a mentally unstable idiot, his conduct at his trial was as such.

Mentally unstable, probably. An idiot? No.

Court is all about who can tell the most convincing lies, nothing more.

Evidence tends to trump lies.

You may well adjust your mirrors all the time but I doubt you would while trying to escape

Crooks who steal cars often leave their prints on the mirror. They’re also escaping with high adrenaline. Whose to know how a person will react in such a situation? I’d suggest there are numerous ways he could’ve been framed which would be far more convincing.

an extremely professional hit well beyond Eastman’s capabilities

Running up to someone and shooting them isn’t particularly professional and how would you or anyone else know it’s beyond his capabilities?

There may not be evidence to prove a conspiracy theory but this thread itself certainly proves there is most definitely reasonable doubt over Eastman’s guilt.

Had Eastman not pissfarted around in his trial and actually kept a decent defence team, he may have achieved acquittal based on reasonable doubt. But he didn’t. Whose fault is that?

So there was reasonable doubt but for his carry on?

HenryBG said :

Tooks said :

HenryBG said :

Why would the AFP investigation travel to Italy, hmmm?
“Rumour, innuendo and conspiracy theory”?

Duh, maybe to properly investigate the kind of claims made by people like yourself. If they didn’t investigate the alleged corruption allegations, you’d scream corruption. You really have no idea, do you?

So – throw up some “conspiracy theory” and the AFP will travel all the way to Italy just to make sure there’s nothing in it?
Dedicated little bunnies, aren’t they?
Not quite dedicated enough to investigate two very likely murder suspects until 4 years after the crime, though. Very reluctantly, at that. Didn’t the DPP have to strongly insist they go before they’d do it?

I think you just dug your hole a little deeper there, Tooks. Keep up the good work.

Don’t know. Do you have a source for that (talking about the two suspects)? Thought not.

Sorry mate, but I have a long held opinion that most conspiracy theorists are just short of being full-blown retards. Nothing on this thread has convinced me otherwise.

I’m done with this thread now, but if you can ever offer any proof to back up your theories and prove me wrong, start a new thread and I’ll happily concede defeat.

I’ll leave you with some food for thought:

Allegations of corruption were also raised, seemingly on the basis of the old adage that where there was smoke, there was fire. It was whispered that honest cops didn’t get assassinated. But extensive investigations showed there was no basis to these rumours, and an independent auditor found that with no unexplained wealth to his name, it was unlikely that Colin Winchester had been on the take.

The case was scrutinised from all angles, pulled apart by the media and subject to several appeals launched by David Eastman. But the jury’s verdict has held, a testament to the quality of the original investigation.

Police were also pursuing another line of inquiry, one that was far less appealing to the media. David Harold Eastman was a public servant facing charges relating to a minor assault. He had argued with the police chief about the matter, and demanded the charges be dropped. The day Colin Winchester was shot was the day David Eastman found out the charges would proceed.

During the trial Justice Kenneth Carruthers described the scientific aspect of the investigation as “one of the most skilled, sophisticated and determined forensic investigations in the history of criminal investigation in Australia”.

I’m off to find another fishing hole.

Little_Green_Bag said :

The only person in Canberra who believes Eastman is innocent is Jack Waterford.

Have you read the psots above?????

The only person in Canberra who believes Eastman is innocent is Jack Waterford.

Tooks said :

HenryBG said :

Why would the AFP investigation travel to Italy, hmmm?
“Rumour, innuendo and conspiracy theory”?

Duh, maybe to properly investigate the kind of claims made by people like yourself. If they didn’t investigate the alleged corruption allegations, you’d scream corruption. You really have no idea, do you?

So – throw up some “conspiracy theory” and the AFP will travel all the way to Italy just to make sure there’s nothing in it?
Dedicated little bunnies, aren’t they?
Not quite dedicated enough to investigate two very likely murder suspects until 4 years after the crime, though. Very reluctantly, at that. Didn’t the DPP have to strongly insist they go before they’d do it?

I think you just dug your hole a little deeper there, Tooks. Keep up the good work.

Eastman is a mentally unstable idiot, his conduct at his trial was as such.

Mentally unstable, probably. An idiot? No.

Court is all about who can tell the most convincing lies, nothing more.

Evidence tends to trump lies.

You may well adjust your mirrors all the time but I doubt you would while trying to escape

Crooks who steal cars often leave their prints on the mirror. They’re also escaping with high adrenaline. Whose to know how a person will react in such a situation? I’d suggest there are numerous ways he could’ve been framed which would be far more convincing.

an extremely professional hit well beyond Eastman’s capabilities

Running up to someone and shooting them isn’t particularly professional and how would you or anyone else know it’s beyond his capabilities?

There may not be evidence to prove a conspiracy theory but this thread itself certainly proves there is most definitely reasonable doubt over Eastman’s guilt.

Had Eastman not pissfarted around in his trial and actually kept a decent defence team, he may have achieved acquittal based on reasonable doubt. But he didn’t. Whose fault is that?

EvanJames said :

HenryBG said :

bundyjack27 said :

Eastman is a very very smart individual.

LOL!

You clearly haven’t met him. He’s a moron. A moron who can demonstrate a high IQ, but still a complete moron.

Really? He was the Dux of Boy’s Grammar, sailed through his degree and did a further qualification at Oxford. He also entered the fast-track program of the Public Service, back when you entered through examination, he was in the creme de la creme group, the 20 top bods. on an accelorated program of rotations with a view to hopping into the SES. And his early career in the public service was a fast rise through the CLAD ranks.

I too know a person who has a very high IQ. They also are in the Public Service and have been for many years. In fact he was awarded recognition for placing fourth in the world in the particular course that he participated in. Problem is he cant change his own light bulb without assistance, litterally.
Some people are better at some things than others.
My point is that regardless of how high your IQ may be, it means nothing without common sense.
Without some form of logic or commonsense a high intellegence or IQ is nothing more than IQ soup!

EvanJames said :

shadow boxer said :

I think the thing that makes some people uncomfortable is that from what we saw he was barking mad and being actively put under as much pressure as the police could muster in the hope he would make a “mistake”.

He then failed to put together a coherent defence or defence team and was convicted on purely circumstantial evidence.

No. Eastman appointed and then sacked a series of lawyers, it was a strategy he was working on to disrupt his trial and possibly, any conviction. He had mates in the legal faculty at ANU who seemed to enjoy the academic exercise of finding avenues and loopholes for him to exploit. During earlier hearings (can’t remember if they were for the winchester thing or soem of the other cases he was accused in), he went through an exercise of having each magistrate disqualify themselves from further hearing the case in question.

as for the police driving him mad, the police and he had a very close relationship, if you read my earlier eye-witness account of his doings, you’ll see that when we called the police, they sent senior officers to deal with him, and they and he knew each other by name, it was a regular ritual, he’d go and terrorise people, and they’d be sent to deal with him.

David Eastman is no victim. The victims of his activities number in the hundreds.

I can’t speak for the previous relationship but the police at the time were quoted as saying they intended to put him under a level of harrassment that would “drive him nuts”.

As I said he probably did it, but there is also a better than even chance that a legal team headed by Jack Pappas that gave Eastman orders to sit down and shut up would have got him acquitted. Particulalry with the perfectly plausible bribe theory flouting around.

You need to remember the late 70’s and early 80’s police forces were operating in an environment of a pre-Fitzgerald culture in QLD, an out of control armed robbery and drug squad in Victoria and blokes like the infamous NSW detective who allegedly gave Neddy Smith the “green light” to perform armed robberies at will. It was different times, and while Winchester was very honest certain (very dangerous) people thought he had done them over.

I don’t think we will ever really know now.

johnboy said :

The real question is who gets the November Mully?

Eastman? Winchester? Waterford?

Snap, I was about to ask that, seeing it was up to 109 replies, but got distracted by the storm. I guess Waterford’s to blame for the controversy, and easier to hand the trophy to, too.

johnboy said :

The real question is who gets the November Mully?

Eastman? Winchester? Waterford?

Eastchesterford.

The real question is who gets the November Mully?

Eastman? Winchester? Waterford?

Tooks said :

Probably not Tooks but I don’t believe there was enough evidence to convict Eastman. This is not saying that the whole community is not better off with Eastman behind bars but the entire case stinks of cover up. Gunshot residue found on a rear vision mirror, we are expected to believe that while escaping the scene of the crime Eastman took the time to adjust his rear vision mirror before driving away in a car he just drove there. Anybody on the inside circles in Canberra at the time will tell you that Eastman did not murder Winchester.

Well the jury who actually listened to all the evidence were convinced. Are you saying you have more insight than them? How exactly does it stink of a cover up? Maybe it was, but I’m yet to hear any evidence of it.

I’ve often adjusted my mirrors after getting into my car, even though I’m the only one who drives it. You’re basing your theory on that? Anybody on the inside circles in Canberra? What the hell does that even mean? Who are these people? Do you mean jury members, the Judge, barristers, investigating police?

I love a good consipiracy theory. I’m ready to become a believer as soon as someone comes up with a skerrick of actual evidence. Until that time, I’m not convinced.

As I have personally experienced these” inner circles” at work, I would suggest to you that they do in fact exist and are alive,well and actually thriving in the community and that they do in fact have the ability to ruin lives, which is what I believe has happened to Mr Eastwood (PATSY). To prove that they exist is almost impossible for several reasons. One reason could be that they are very,very good at what they do.

What chance has an ordinary citizen got of a fair go or Justice, if the “inner circle” or the” powers that be ” turns on them for one reason or another, even if the only evidence they have got or produced is suspicious and weak at best. Unfortunately none.
Im not implying that Mr Eastman is or was in any way ordinary but what i am implying is that History shows that any person or persons who may have an issue or issues with an” inner circle “and actually raises them is Blocked or attacked.

Just look at anybody that acts and speaks out, regardless of right or wrong.They are quickly singled out and discredited buy any number of ways.
eg; whisleblower
trouble maker
nut job
conspiracy theorist

HenryBG said :

bundyjack27 said :

Eastman is a very very smart individual.

LOL!

You clearly haven’t met him. He’s a moron. A moron who can demonstrate a high IQ, but still a complete moron.

Really? He was the Dux of Boy’s Grammar, sailed through his degree and did a further qualification at Oxford. He also entered the fast-track program of the Public Service, back when you entered through examination, he was in the creme de la creme group, the 20 top bods. on an accelorated program of rotations with a view to hopping into the SES. And his early career in the public service was a fast rise through the CLAD ranks.

shadow boxer said :

I think the thing that makes some people uncomfortable is that from what we saw he was barking mad and being actively put under as much pressure as the police could muster in the hope he would make a “mistake”.

He then failed to put together a coherent defence or defence team and was convicted on purely circumstantial evidence.

No. Eastman appointed and then sacked a series of lawyers, it was a strategy he was working on to disrupt his trial and possibly, any conviction. He had mates in the legal faculty at ANU who seemed to enjoy the academic exercise of finding avenues and loopholes for him to exploit. During earlier hearings (can’t remember if they were for the winchester thing or soem of the other cases he was accused in), he went through an exercise of having each magistrate disqualify themselves from further hearing the case in question.

as for the police driving him mad, the police and he had a very close relationship, if you read my earlier eye-witness account of his doings, you’ll see that when we called the police, they sent senior officers to deal with him, and they and he knew each other by name, it was a regular ritual, he’d go and terrorise people, and they’d be sent to deal with him.

David Eastman is no victim. The victims of his activities number in the hundreds.

Great forum, some interesting reading.

mareva said :

Backdated Singh’s sentence meaning she did 2 years for deliberately killing her boyfriend.

“Punished”? Erm, 2 years for manslaughter which should have been murder is a sick joke.

Um, you do realise that the ‘backdating’ you refer to is actually taking account of time already served right?

dpm said :

After reading through this post I can say one thing: Wow! That Underbelly show has a lot to answer for! Hahaha!

These discussions, and the documentary showing alleged ‘extra evidence’ were around at least 15 years before Underbelly.

There are people in Canberra who know bits and pieces of this case well beyond what was presented in the media and at Eastman’s various court appearances. Very few would know the whole story, though.

Consider too that if there were police involvement in some way beyond that which is normal, some parts of the evidence would not have made it to Eastman’s trial.

It would be interesting to see how the Eastman trial would go if held again in 2011 with the same evidence and testimony that convicted him previously.

After reading through this post I can say one thing: Wow! That Underbelly show has a lot to answer for! Hahaha!

Hmmm, what has it got to with Eastman shooting Winchester,not alot I guess. sorry about all that me me me blah blah blah. I have been going on about all of this for half my life now. like i said in the first posting you have to go back to get the whole story. Please do it will amaze you or maybe it wont, it’s so vanilla in Canberra these days, it was a wild country town back then pretending to be the nations capital.
ONCE AGAIN, CHRIS MASTERS, of THE MASTERS REPORT the show was called POLICE CROP.

Tooks said :

Probably not Tooks but I don’t believe there was enough evidence to convict Eastman. This is not saying that the whole community is not better off with Eastman behind bars but the entire case stinks of cover up. Gunshot residue found on a rear vision mirror, we are expected to believe that while escaping the scene of the crime Eastman took the time to adjust his rear vision mirror before driving away in a car he just drove there. Anybody on the inside circles in Canberra at the time will tell you that Eastman did not murder Winchester.

Well the jury who actually listened to all the evidence were convinced. Are you saying you have more insight than them? How exactly does it stink of a cover up? Maybe it was, but I’m yet to hear any evidence of it.

I’ve often adjusted my mirrors after getting into my car, even though I’m the only one who drives it. You’re basing your theory on that? Anybody on the inside circles in Canberra? What the hell does that even mean? Who are these people? Do you mean jury members, the Judge, barristers, investigating police?

I love a good consipiracy theory. I’m ready to become a believer as soon as someone comes up with a skerrick of actual evidence. Until that time, I’m not convinced.

Eastman is a mentally unstable idiot, his conduct at his trial was as such. He certainly would not of been making any friends of the jury members, judge or investigating police and that is all our legal system requires to gain a conviction. Court is all about who can tell the most convincing lies, nothing more. You may well adjust your mirrors all the time but I doubt you would while trying to escape with adrenalin pumping through your veins after just doing an extremely professional hit well beyond Eastman’s capabilities. There may not be evidence to prove a conspiracy theory but this thread itself certainly proves there is most definitely reasonable doubt over Eastman’s guilt.

HenryBG said :

Tooks said :

So you’ve got no evidence, just rumour and innuendo.

Lol! I’ll spare you the cheap shot of juxtaposing your statement with the essence of the case against Eastman, but I will ask you this:

Why would the AFP investigation travel to Italy, hmmm?
“Rumour, innuendo and conspiracy theory”?

Duh, maybe to properly investigate the kind of claims made by people like yourself. If they didn’t investigate the alleged corruption allegations, you’d scream corruption. You really have no idea, do you?

Probably not Tooks but I don’t believe there was enough evidence to convict Eastman. This is not saying that the whole community is not better off with Eastman behind bars but the entire case stinks of cover up. Gunshot residue found on a rear vision mirror, we are expected to believe that while escaping the scene of the crime Eastman took the time to adjust his rear vision mirror before driving away in a car he just drove there. Anybody on the inside circles in Canberra at the time will tell you that Eastman did not murder Winchester.

Well the jury who actually listened to all the evidence were convinced. Are you saying you have more insight than them? How exactly does it stink of a cover up? Maybe it was, but I’m yet to hear any evidence of it.

I’ve often adjusted my mirrors after getting into my car, even though I’m the only one who drives it. You’re basing your theory on that? Anybody on the inside circles in Canberra? What the hell does that even mean? Who are these people? Do you mean jury members, the Judge, barristers, investigating police?

I love a good consipiracy theory. I’m ready to become a believer as soon as someone comes up with a skerrick of actual evidence. Until that time, I’m not convinced.

Tooks said :

So you’ve got no evidence, just rumour and innuendo.

Lol! I’ll spare you the cheap shot of juxtaposing your statement with the essence of the case against Eastman, but I will ask you this:

Why would the AFP investigation travel to Italy, hmmm?
“Rumour, innuendo and conspiracy theory”?

The reason we aren’t going to get any new evidence supporting the fact that the Calabrese’s were responsible is the two major groups mixed up in the crime (the cops and the farmers) have dealt with this matter years ago and don’t need or want anything more to do with this case. The reason there is so much discussion whether Eastman is innocent is because the general public in most instances aren’t stupid. Those people who are making all the noise about Eastmans guilt may have a hidden agenda or bias opinion of Eastman, whether it be they had an altercation with the psychotic Eastman in the past, or something more sinister.

Tooks said :

HenryBG said :

Thumper is dead wrong to write off DDsmash’s contribution – a bit breathless and not entirely coherent, but he describes part of what was going on.
Obamabinladen puts it in a nutshell, EXCEPT, when he says, “cops bust crop anyway”. That’s not what happened.
The crop was ripped off.
By cops.
Not the AFP, but to the Calabrians a cop is a cop, and Winchester had been paid to ensure this didn’t happen. Ultimately, some tiny fraction of the original crop ended up in the AFP’s custody, the rest was distributed in Sydney with bent NSW coppers taking the profit from the Calabrians’ hard work. No wonder they were upset.

As for Eastman, it is truly amazing to see the likes of Tooks and Creative-Canberran still trying to kid themselves that there was *anything* worthwhile presented in evidence against Eastman. The Klarenbeek Ruger was *not* sold to Eastman, according to Klarenbeek himself, although this nugget was added to the AFP’s great mound of disregarded inconvenient facts thanks to Klarenbeek premature death before Eastman got to trial.
As for the alternative? The Calabrians had promised to hit Winchester. Two known Calabrian handymen had travelled to Australia a week or so before the assassination and they were in Canberra on the night of the hit, before flying out of Sydney less than 12 hours later. The AFP and DPP carefully avoided what would have been a difficult and dangerous investigation which would have involved opening up the whole issue of corruption in two of Australia’s police forces.
Instead, they focussed on the local convenient nutter. And as pointed out by many people here – nobody shed a tear at Eastman being taken off the streets.

So you’ve got no evidence, just rumour and innuendo.

Probably not Tooks but I don’t believe there was enough evidence to convict Eastman. This is not saying that the whole community is not better off with Eastman behind bars but the entire case stinks of cover up. Gunshot residue found on a rear vision mirror, we are expected to believe that while escaping the scene of the crime Eastman took the time to adjust his rear vision mirror before driving away in a car he just drove there. Anybody on the inside circles in Canberra at the time will tell you that Eastman did not murder Winchester.

HenryBG said :

Thumper is dead wrong to write off DDsmash’s contribution – a bit breathless and not entirely coherent, but he describes part of what was going on.
Obamabinladen puts it in a nutshell, EXCEPT, when he says, “cops bust crop anyway”. That’s not what happened.
The crop was ripped off.
By cops.
Not the AFP, but to the Calabrians a cop is a cop, and Winchester had been paid to ensure this didn’t happen. Ultimately, some tiny fraction of the original crop ended up in the AFP’s custody, the rest was distributed in Sydney with bent NSW coppers taking the profit from the Calabrians’ hard work. No wonder they were upset.

As for Eastman, it is truly amazing to see the likes of Tooks and Creative-Canberran still trying to kid themselves that there was *anything* worthwhile presented in evidence against Eastman. The Klarenbeek Ruger was *not* sold to Eastman, according to Klarenbeek himself, although this nugget was added to the AFP’s great mound of disregarded inconvenient facts thanks to Klarenbeek premature death before Eastman got to trial.
As for the alternative? The Calabrians had promised to hit Winchester. Two known Calabrian handymen had travelled to Australia a week or so before the assassination and they were in Canberra on the night of the hit, before flying out of Sydney less than 12 hours later. The AFP and DPP carefully avoided what would have been a difficult and dangerous investigation which would have involved opening up the whole issue of corruption in two of Australia’s police forces.
Instead, they focussed on the local convenient nutter. And as pointed out by many people here – nobody shed a tear at Eastman being taken off the streets.

So you’ve got no evidence, just rumour and innuendo.

bundyjack27 said :

Eastman is a very very smart individual.

LOL!

You clearly haven’t met him. He’s a moron. A moron who can demonstrate a high IQ, but still a complete moron.

Many, many thanks to creative_canberran for outlining the full strength of the prosecution’s case against Eastman:

creative_canberran said :

…
Past threats of gun violence:
…
Evidence of anger issues and distrust of police:
…
Evidence of search and purchase of weapons on numerous occasions:
…
Evidence of direct hatred of Winchester which was not challenged in cross examination:

Yep. That is *really* all they had on him.
Plus the fabricated Klarenbeek-Ruger witness statement.
It didn’t take too much to scare off the prostitute who reckoned she was with Eastman at some point that evening, and to some people, the lack of a provable alibi is all it takes to indicate guilt.

Apparently, a clumsy, blundering demented f***wit is the criminal mastermind who committed the most serious crime without creating any forensic evidence whatsoever.

Also, thanks for the evidence of delusion on the part of the “Eastman dunnit” crowd – Winchester’s association with a Calabrian mafia and his “authorisation” for their Bungendore dope crop and the clusterf*** that ensued in this operation are un-facts which have to be written off as “conspiracy theories”. The fact the crop was ripped off and the fact that the Calabrians blamed Winchester are, again, un-facts to those who are part of the AFP/DPP groupthink. The fact the Calabrians promised punishment for the “doublecross” and the fact that their threats were credible are more un-facts.

It’s got nothing to do with “defending Eastman”, but everything to do with we the taxpayer getting honest and competent service from the forces of law and order. In the Eastman case, we got neither.

I think the thing that makes some people uncomfortable is that from what we saw he was barking mad and being actively put under as much pressure as the police could muster in the hope he would make a “mistake”.

He then failed to put together a coherent defence or defence team and was convicted on purely circumstantial evidence.

aceofspades said :

DDsmash said :

A great place to start is to explain what were the police doing growing dope with italians in Bungendore? answer that please, it has never been explained and I would love to know who said this was ok for the AFP to do this.They flipped it off as an effort to track crime networks but they did it to establish crime networks to train on.
Secondly if you think Eastman is a lunatic go and have a good look at that thug Eric Ninness, a senior officer in the AFP and a big player in operation Seville, according to Nick Pappas, who was representing Eastman at the time, Ninness was the first officer on the scene,why he didn’t call for road blocks?
Eastman was framed to avoid the police explaining why Winchester was shot for breaking the deal he made with mafia,it all unravelled when McKay got shot, then to young couriers were found dead in barrells just outside Griffith on the day of the Whitlams dissmisal, to Hollywood for you? well their it is. The AFP were out of control, look at the Masters report called Police Crop that ran in the eighties about the whole shamozzle, then you will see what a distraction the Winchester murder is from the AFP’s criminal culture!

Wow, of all the conspiracy theories surrounding Eastman/ Winchester, this has to be one of the best!

I’m just surprised there’s no mention of black helicopters, secret one world government bunkers under parliament house and UFO cover ups by the military.

You surprise me Thumper, I pictured you much more switched on…

“As background to Winchester’s murder the following extract from the New South Wales Legislative Assembly Hansard for Thursday 17 May 1990 is illuminating.”

In short Mr. HATTON (South Coast) calls for a Royal Commission to investigate exactly what DDsmash describes.

There is a reasonable amouint of evidence to say these things occured, the police in refusing to acknowledge it at the time and to instead launch an overt campaign of harrassment designed to push a mentally ill Eastman over the edge did them no favours and there remains only circumstantial evidence.

He probably did it but doubts will always remain because of the way it was handled and the way the police sought revenge, a bit like Walsh street really, when you lay down with dogs….

Thumper, I along with 4 friends were beaten, arressted and charged with 3 counts of assault police, resist arrest by the AFP . We were leaving a party and they followed us for a mile through the suburb then jumped us.The case went through the courts we had Terry Higgins and Gillespie Jones as our barristers.The judge finnished the trial by saying he could not find the truth and awarded us our costs and no convictions recorded. Terry Higgins is now a senior judge in Canberra, after the trial he recomended that we all leave Canberra, that the AFP wouldn’t forget this even though we didn’t instigate the attack.I know of a lot more cases like this. The Williamson 21st in Watson was the one Ken Langham tabled in Parlament,my sister was sitting out the front of the party in a car and the Police appeared on mass at either end of the street, blocking the road with paddy wagons. The party was quietly going along when the police stormed the place beating people and dragging them away for arresst.Langham got an addmission from the police that it was a training excersise and took it to Parlament.Later on in life I got to know Nic Pappas,also now a magistrate, my band played at his pub in Woden,The Ironbar bar, he was Eastmans lawyer for a while, we wrote a few songs about the whole thing and he shared his observations on the whole sordid mess, Eastman sacked him as his defence.
There was more than one crop, apart from Bungendore there was more in the Brindabellas and drugs brought in from Griffith were all part of it.
So have a look at the Masters report ‘POLICE CROP” , you get it through the ABC shop, it is unbelievable what went on. The Goulburn police heard about the crop in Bungendore, so they started growing their own, gangsters and Police in Sydney heard about these crops and drove down to steal the crop in Bungendore.There were Truck loads of dope running up and down the highway. Mafia men from the states were taken pig shooting out in the Brindabellas. I swear it is not hearsay, it has never been addressed, look at all this attention on Eastman and look what the police had to hide. It is all in the Masters Report, POLICE CROP! The AFP were corrupt and in over their heads.
Now I may be missed guided and breathless but what i have seen, heard and experienced has led me to my conclusion, Eastman is a nut and I have a few stories about him but for me he is a distraction from the real issues of corruption.

Hang The Bastard-As Soon As The Fair Trial Has Finished!!

farq said :

Deref said :

That’s part of a PhD thesis????

I’d give it 3/10 for a Year 7 “My Favourite Day in the Holidays” composition.

I’d guess he is doing his thesis at either the University of Canberra or Charles Sturt University.

More likely the University of East Bumcrack, as no-one else would consider the topic.

Eastman is a very very smart individual. Thanks to us tax payers, he has studied a lot in Gaol and has several degrees. He is also a very hard person to get on with, hence why the NSWDCS moved him every 6months from one Gaol to the next, and every prison officer he came into contact with, he made false allegations to the ombudsman about them and what they use to do to him. I now feel sorry for the ACTDCS as he is now at the AMC permanently and they will have to put up with his crap for LIFE!

He has had all appeals and no longer has any recourse of action, unless some very strong evidence was to arise, which certainly hasn’t!

From the foregoing, it is obvious that Eastman is a thoroughly undesirable character, characterised by physical conflict with his ‘antagonists’.

Perhaps a forensic psychologist could offer an opinion if this personality type is prone to changing their methods to planning aforethought and ambushing and using a firearm to inflict the ultimate damage.

Deref said :

That’s part of a PhD thesis????

I’d give it 3/10 for a Year 7 “My Favourite Day in the Holidays” composition.

I’d guess he is doing his thesis at either the University of Canberra or Charles Sturt University.

creative_canberran said :

Some of the site is simply incoherent, like this tidbit:
“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

That’s part of a PhD thesis????

I’d give it 3/10 for a Year 7 “My Favourite Day in the Holidays” composition.

creative_canberran said :

Something further, most people making such a threat which is empty don’t enquire about and purchase numerous firearms, hiding one under a highway.
If it was for self defence, then one would think a single firearm kept on his premises would be logical. Numerous ones, purchased annon and without a licence, with a sight, and one hidden sure doesn’t sound like self defence.

Was the weapon hidden under the highway identified as the murder weapon? If not how is it relevant?

Does purchasing a weapon illegally mean you intend to use it to murder someone?

Does Eastman have access to internet in the AMC?

I don’t know enough about the case to say either way if Eastman killed Winchester, but I’ve read about many people who either followed the case or were involved in it that have doubts.

The evidence that I have read about did not seem very strong. The fact that Eastman stuffed up his defense only increases my doubt in the safety of the conviction.

Tool said :

One might argue that had this mystery evidence been brought to light many moons ago it may have caused reasonable doubt as the evidence for the physical element of the offence would have been lacking. My question is why now?

– Because Eastman acted as his own lawyer and as they say had a fool for a client.

To me it seems the only people who defend the conviction are serving or ex members of the AFP. It worries me that police who were not involved in the case (or even joined after the trail was completed) seem to be the so keen to say ‘there is no doubt’ & ‘he was convicted end of story’. It’s not like our police/dpp/courts have never convicted an innocent person before.

How about we hear from a cop who thinks maybe, just maybe his organization might have got this one wrong and that they have doubts? I won’t hold my breath, cops defend cops to the bitter end.

creative_canberran said :

mareva said :

To be convicted of murder, physical & fault elements must be shown to have been simultaneously present beyond the criminal standard of proof. How are such things shown, through evidence. The basis of the conviction in the Eastman trial has never been questioned: the basis was, of course, the evidence. The evidence about the gun, its purchase, the affidavits supporting the Crown’s case that Eastman had bought the murder weapon, evidence about the residue in the boot.

The HCA appeal didn’t deal with this.

The reason the conviction was, imo improper, was the evidence I mention above. The question MUST be asked – was the conviction solid on that evidence???? Anything more than cursory glance over the evidence and the means by which it was obtained, raises questions in a person’s mind.

There is not much doubt left in my mind;- Eastman didn’t do it.

And that is a horrifying prospect when you consider types like Anu Singh & Madhavi Rao, the Cube nightclub owner, Glen Porritt, Russel Field, all knocked off fellow Canberrans and got away scott free. And that poor bugger Eastman? In the clink for life.

Justice in the Territory? lol.

You really have no grasp of either the way the law works nor reality.

Anu Singh didn’t get “away scott free.” She was charged with manslaughter, sentenced to 10yrs and released when eligible for bail after 4yrs.
We can debate whether or not the sentence was appropriate, whether or not she is rehabilitated and whether or not it was murder or manslaughter, but don’t just make stuff up about not being punished at all.

As for Eastman, if you’re going to quote from a first year law textbook, at least read the section about how appeals work. Particularly the part about “question of law” vs “question of fact.”

Eastman appealed to the High Court based on mental fitness in the original proceedings and a subsequent decision by the Federal Court. The High Court heard the arguments and rejected it.

Unfortunately, you are confusing the onus of proof at various stages of the criminal trial process. Confusing original and appellate jurisdiction. And ignoring the facts.

Backdated Singh’s sentence meaning she did 2 years for deliberately killing her boyfriend. “Punished”? Erm, 2 years for manslaughter which should have been murder is a sick joke. she’s at USYD right now doing her Masters. Wow she really suffered.

And I’ll say it again: the HCA appeal didn’t deal with the evidence that the Waterford article is about. Didn’t deal with the gun powder evidence, the sale of the gun affidavits, how the gun was found etc. The fitness to plead evidence was voir dire evidence and not the basis of the jury conviction…..for the last time.

One might argue that had this mystery evidence been brought to light many moons ago it may have caused reasonable doubt as the evidence for the physical element of the offence would have been lacking. My question is why now? The gun surfaced a year ago and nothing was said? I think good old Jack Waterfront is getting a kickback from the book and has provided another theatrical piece of work to spark interest. I want the movie rights, with all the conspiracy theories around it would be a ripper! I bags Stellan Skarsgard as Eastman, De Niro as Ninniss , and Pete Postlethwaite (rip) as Waterford.

aceofspades said :

You surprise me Thumper, I pictured you much more switched on…

“As background to Winchester’s murder the following extract from the New South Wales Legislative Assembly Hansard for Thursday 17 May 1990 is illuminating.”

In short Mr. HATTON (South Coast) calls for a Royal Commission to investigate exactly what DDsmash describes.

This post is directly ripped off from this website: http://blakandblack.com/

The Hansard referred to is actually 11 May 1994. The website he ripped the text off has the wrong date, which says a lot about the credibility of the site.

The site is run by Mark Mullins, a former public servant according to the site who is “working on a PhD titled Corruption and Racism in the Australian Federal Police and the death of Australia’s democracy.”

The site owner harbours a personal vendetta against the AFP, public service and in general europeans because of perceived injustices to him in the past and the invasion of his traditional country.

Some of the site is simply incoherent, like this tidbit:
“In this environment of self interest, where spin and obfuscation rule supreme, where hype passes for policy and ‘grandstanding’ for action, is it any wonder that ordinary citizens are slowly having their basic rights and freedoms eroded on a daily basis in order to bolster the fiefdoms of the Manchu’s in Canberra.”

PantsMan said :

In the first few years of this fine Territory David Eastman was found guilty and Anu Singh was found innocent.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I think you’ll find the verdict on Singh’s murder charge was “not guilty” rather than “innocent”. There’s a big difference.

I-filed said :

creative_canberran said :

“Well, sometimes I get so- frustrated I could just get a gun and kill someone”.

How many people, in all seriousness, haven’t made some kind of empty threat of violence? On the basis of empty threats like that one, we could all be convicted of something.

Something further, most people making such a threat which is empty don’t enquire about and purchase numerous firearms, hiding one under a highway.
If it was for self defence, then one would think a single firearm kept on his premises would be logical. Numerous ones, purchased annon and without a licence, with a sight, and one hidden sure doesn’t sound like self defence.

mp2615 said :

The transcript of NSW LA 17/04/1990. Fascinating reading, starts page 17

The NSW Legislative Assembly did not sit on 17 April 1990.

I-filed said :

creative_canberran said :

“Well, sometimes I get so- frustrated I could just get a gun and kill someone”.

How many people, in all seriousness, haven’t made some kind of empty threat of violence? On the basis of empty threats like that one, we could all be convicted of something.

You just have to be careful who you make these empty threats to. Your neighbour: he’ll most likely laugh in your face; your boss: you’ll be looking for a new job; a head of state: arrested under terrorism legislation

I-filed said :

creative_canberran said :

“Well, sometimes I get so- frustrated I could just get a gun and kill someone”.

How many people, in all seriousness, haven’t made some kind of empty threat of violence? On the basis of empty threats like that one, we could all be convicted of something.

He said it enough times and with such seriousness that they called the cops. Then he made the same type of threats about the same type of people in subsequent years. Each time referring to shooting too I note.

And how is it an empty threat? Someone took his car space at the hospital and they came to blows, both needing medical treatment.

Not only did Eastman threaten, but he demonstrated the ability to act out his violent thoughts.

creative_canberran said :

“Well, sometimes I get so- frustrated I could just get a gun and kill someone”.

How many people, in all seriousness, haven’t made some kind of empty threat of violence? On the basis of empty threats like that one, we could all be convicted of something.

All these people defending Eastman are offering is conspiracy theories, show us the evidence. Cite your sources. Fanciful stories about mafia links and corrupt police are entertaining but do not constitute proof, nor do they outweigh the reasoned consideration of the facts by a jury, prosecutors and successive impartial judges.

Let’s consider Carruthers AJ:

Past threats of gun violence:

“In December 1985 the prisoner was seeking advice from Mr and Mrs Bewley in relation to problems Mr Bewley had encountered with the Commissioner for Superannuation, and in relation to his own problems, when he said words to the effect, “Well, sometimes I get so- frustrated I could just get a gun and kill someone”.
Then, in early 1988 he told Ms Vick, the Principal Private Secretary to Senator Janine Haines, “I’ll probably have to kill someone to get the attention paid to the injustice that’s been done to me”. Both Mr Kennedy and Ms Vick were so concerned about the intensity of the statements made by the prisoner that they notified the police.”

Evidence of anger issues and distrust of police:

“However, the prisoner maintained his campaign and ultimately achieved some significant progress. In December 1988 the Delegate of the Commissioner for Superannuation was required to determine whether he was then in such a restored state of health as to enable him to be re-employed in the Australian Public Service.
The Delegate had before him (inter alia) reports of Dr F Hocking, psychiatrist, dated 24 October 1988 and 15 November 1988, respectively. In his decision dated 16 December 1988, the Delegate noted that Dr Hocking concluded from his own psychiatric assessments of the prisoner that he was unable to detect anything that would lead one to consider him as unfit for return to the Australian Public Service.
However, the Delegate pointed out that in his report dated 15 November 1988, Dr Hocking accepted that the prisoner should be allotted “self paced projects that entail minimum contact with other people”, because of the medical and employment history available to him.”

“It is now necessary to back track a little. On 17 December 1987 the prisoner and one Andrew Russo (a fellow tenant of Jerilderie Court, Reid) were involved in an altercation over a car parking space. Both sustained some injury in the altercation. The prisoner attended the City Police Station to complain and to seek to have Mr Russo charged. The prisoner then went to the Royal Canberra Hospital where Mr Russo was receiving treatment. As it transpired, however, the Police decided to charge the prisoner with having assaulted Mr Russo instead of the converse. In this regard the investigating police officers relied upon a statement from Mr Russo together with persons who were said to be supporting witnesses. This angered the prisoner because he took the view primarily that this alleged change of tack was the result of a Senior Constable who was antipathetic to him, wrongly influencing a fairly inexperienced constable to lay the charge against him.”

Evidence of search and purchase of weapons on numerous occasions:

“This passage has an added significance in that on 19 January 1988 the prisoner commenced to search for a weapon. Inquiries were made by him in January of a number of persons who had advertised weapons for sale in The Canberra Times. In all there were ten separate jnquiries or attempted inquiries in that month. This search culminated in the purchase of a .22 Stirling semi-automatic rifle with a telescopic sight on 10 February from one Geoffrey Bradshaw. In order to obtain this weapon, the prisoner endorsed the Notice of Disposal on the reverse side of Mr Bradshaw’s licence with a false name and address. In addition he sought to disguise his handwriting and forged the signature “JF Thompson”.
He test fired this rifle and then returned it to Mr Bradshaw claiming that it had jammed. I accept the evidence of Mr Bradshaw that when the rifle was returned to him, the prisoner said that he would like to keep the “scope” and Mr Bradshaw agreed to sell it to him for $20. The balance of the purchase money was repaid by Mr Bradshaw.
Then on 13 February the prisoner bought a Ruger .22 S/A rifle from James Leneghan, who had advertised it in The Canberra Times on that day. The prisoner did not buy the telescopic sight which was available for sale with this rifle”

Evidence of direct hatred of Winchester which was not challenged in cross examination:

“…insight can be obtained from the evidence of Mr Barbara and Dr Roantree Neither of these witnesses was challenged by cross-examination. Although Mr Barbara could not be precise about dates, he said: that the prisoner said to him in either late November or early December 1988, “I’ll kill Winchester and I’ll get the Ombudsman too” Dr Roantree then deflected the conversation to the prisoner’s medical condition which was the subject of consultation. However, the prisoner made the comment that the police should be taught a lesson. He said, according to Dr Roantree, “Every time something happens he feels – felt that he was suspected and that every time he reports – reported anything, he got the blame”.
At the conclusion of the consultation he exclaimed as he was leaving, “I should shoot the bastard.”

SUPREME COURT OF THE AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY
CARRUTHERS AJ
SCC 111 of 1992
10 November 1995

Just reading this post, I’d acquit if I were on a jury.

Thumper is dead wrong to write off DDsmash’s contribution – a bit breathless and not entirely coherent, but he describes part of what was going on.
Obamabinladen puts it in a nutshell, EXCEPT, when he says, “cops bust crop anyway”. That’s not what happened.
The crop was ripped off.
By cops.
Not the AFP, but to the Calabrians a cop is a cop, and Winchester had been paid to ensure this didn’t happen. Ultimately, some tiny fraction of the original crop ended up in the AFP’s custody, the rest was distributed in Sydney with bent NSW coppers taking the profit from the Calabrians’ hard work. No wonder they were upset.

As for Eastman, it is truly amazing to see the likes of Tooks and Creative-Canberran still trying to kid themselves that there was *anything* worthwhile presented in evidence against Eastman. The Klarenbeek Ruger was *not* sold to Eastman, according to Klarenbeek himself, although this nugget was added to the AFP’s great mound of disregarded inconvenient facts thanks to Klarenbeek premature death before Eastman got to trial.
As for the alternative? The Calabrians had promised to hit Winchester. Two known Calabrian handymen had travelled to Australia a week or so before the assassination and they were in Canberra on the night of the hit, before flying out of Sydney less than 12 hours later. The AFP and DPP carefully avoided what would have been a difficult and dangerous investigation which would have involved opening up the whole issue of corruption in two of Australia’s police forces.
Instead, they focussed on the local convenient nutter. And as pointed out by many people here – nobody shed a tear at Eastman being taken off the streets.

The transcript of NSW LA 17/04/1990. Fascinating reading, starts page 17

Hey Thumper, it was tabled in Parliment by Ken Langham, who represented North Canberra that the police admitted to using the youth of Canberra for training purposes. They raided a birthday party in Watson without their badges beat people with batons and charge them with assault and dragged them all down to the station, they needed a criminal culture for this was going to be our FBI so this is how they went about creating one.There is an expected 11% deviency in society so if you find and encourage them you have them from the beggining .If you correlate drug busts during the time of the crops being grown and distributed from the Bungendore crops you will probably find it was a big reason that goverment money was given to the AFP to fight the rise in drug distribution.
Thanks Aceofspades, maybe like me you grew up in amongst this mayhem.A lot of young people who where victims of this police entrapment went on to be involved in major drug distribution and gang activity, the leader of the ACT Rebels motorcycle gang for one.
Thats why I put the hollywood reference, it seems unbelievable now, so thumper if you doubt me go and watch Police Crop , a masters report done in the 80’s. A lot of the AFP cops of that day were returned Vietnam vets, they were tough, crazy ,bitter men and were a law unto themselves, they were very heavy dudes.
I live for they day they say who said it was OK them to grow crops with the mafia, the rumour was it was the FBI consultants brought in to help establish the AFP. Stll to Hollywood for you !

aceofspades said :

This may well be true but I don’t think he is guilty of the Winchester murder.

Absolutely. There’s a lot more to this than people realise.

Calabrese farmers decide to grow massive crop out bungedore way, cut winchester in on the deal to avoid any hassles, winchester takes bribe, cops bust crop anyway, Calabrese farmers take out winchester, cops frame Eastman to keep up public appearances, Eastman gets put where he deserves end of story! I just feel sorry for the poor calabrese farmers lol.

EvanJames said :

Shanski_0 said :

I have a ‘friend’ who works at the jail, And I’ve been told Eastman is bat s*** crazy, He should be in a mental health facility, getting the help he needs, not locked in a cell for 23 hours a day. He screams gibberish, he’s been heard crying, I find this completely distressing.

I honestly don’t know too much about this case, but innocent or guilty, mental health should be looked after.

Before being locked up in jail, Eastman would be out and about on a daily basis, screaming at people and assaulting them. Seen him, heard him, on a regular basis. He was doing it to his neighbours, with various businesses and government offices, the number of people he threatened (and worse) on a daily basis was high.

He had an appointment to speak with a collegue of mine. As soon as he was invited to be seated, he accused my colleague of threatening him, and punched my colleague in the face. And screamed abuse at him. My colleague yelled out “call the police” and staff sitting outside the office rang the police. As Eastman walked out of the office, he said to a pregnant female employee sitting outside “I’ll get you, next”.

She collapsed in tears and shock 20 minutes later.

the police who attended to collect Eastman (who was still in the office, making demands) were all wearing black hats (not white ones) and knew him, and commented that he was already facing 150+ separate charges for this kind of thing. He was racking them up on a weekly basis, and god knows how many people copped it and didn’t proceed to laying formal charges.

I saw him one day in civic, lurch out onto the road without looking, and a lady screeched to a halt. She was sitting in her car clearly shaking at having nearly hit a pedestrian, and he stood there in the middle of the road and screamed abuse at her, for some time.

Then there was my many run-ins with him, he wanted my office to do something, and I refused, so for several months we had the joy of daily visits from him. And you never knew how far he was likely to go on those visits, the safety of the staff and other clients, how violent he would get. And there was NOTHING we could do about it, becuase he was free to roam the town, doing whatever he liked to whomever he liked.

The stories of what he did at Treasury before they invalided him out on “stress” grounds was horrific. He sure enjoyed sorting out women.

I’m heartened to see all the people with great regard for peoples’ legal rights, but the law does not deal well with people like Eastman who are out of control, but retain their intelligence and cunning. He refused to let his mental state be used in his case/s because he didn’t believe he had a problem (quite the opposite, he was a higher being), but also he knew that invoking mental health would see him placed under the control of the authorities. he wanted to be free to roam the town, doing what he liked doing.

He’s in the right place.

This may well be true but I don’t think he is guilty of the Winchester murder.

It’s been fairly well established that there was an AFP drug crop, and Winchester and other senior police were involved. Some friends actually stumbled on part of it, in the Talleganda ranges, the cops were watching it and friends were told in no uncertain terms to absent themselves (public road, mind you).

DDsmash said :

A great place to start is to explain what were the police doing growing dope with italians in Bungendore? answer that please, it has never been explained and I would love to know who said this was ok for the AFP to do this.They flipped it off as an effort to track crime networks but they did it to establish crime networks to train on.
Secondly if you think Eastman is a lunatic go and have a good look at that thug Eric Ninness, a senior officer in the AFP and a big player in operation Seville, according to Nick Pappas, who was representing Eastman at the time, Ninness was the first officer on the scene,why he didn’t call for road blocks?
Eastman was framed to avoid the police explaining why Winchester was shot for breaking the deal he made with mafia,it all unravelled when McKay got shot, then to young couriers were found dead in barrells just outside Griffith on the day of the Whitlams dissmisal, to Hollywood for you? well their it is. The AFP were out of control, look at the Masters report called Police Crop that ran in the eighties about the whole shamozzle, then you will see what a distraction the Winchester murder is from the AFP’s criminal culture!

Wow, of all the conspiracy theories surrounding Eastman/ Winchester, this has to be one of the best!

I’m just surprised there’s no mention of black helicopters, secret one world government bunkers under parliament house and UFO cover ups by the military.

You surprise me Thumper, I pictured you much more switched on…

“As background to Winchester’s murder the following extract from the New South Wales Legislative Assembly Hansard for Thursday 17 May 1990 is illuminating.”

In short Mr. HATTON (South Coast) calls for a Royal Commission to investigate exactly what DDsmash describes.

housebound said :

We all had the same arguments over Lindy Chamberlain. It seems the community can tell when something isn’t quite right about a conviction.

Still… If You Have Enough Court Cases You Will Get The Result That You Want.LAW OF AVERAGES.

Shanski_0 said :

I have a ‘friend’ who works at the jail, And I’ve been told Eastman is bat s*** crazy, He should be in a mental health facility, getting the help he needs, not locked in a cell for 23 hours a day. He screams gibberish, he’s been heard crying, I find this completely distressing.

I honestly don’t know too much about this case, but innocent or guilty, mental health should be looked after.

Before being locked up in jail, Eastman would be out and about on a daily basis, screaming at people and assaulting them. Seen him, heard him, on a regular basis. He was doing it to his neighbours, with various businesses and government offices, the number of people he threatened (and worse) on a daily basis was high.

He had an appointment to speak with a collegue of mine. As soon as he was invited to be seated, he accused my colleague of threatening him, and punched my colleague in the face. And screamed abuse at him. My colleague yelled out “call the police” and staff sitting outside the office rang the police. As Eastman walked out of the office, he said to a pregnant female employee sitting outside “I’ll get you, next”. She collapsed in tears and shock 20 minutes later.

the police who attended to collect Eastman (who was still in the office, making demands) were all wearing black hats (not white ones) and knew him, and commented that he was already facing 150+ separate charges for this kind of thing. He was racking them up on a weekly basis, and god knows how many people copped it and didn’t proceed to laying formal charges.

I saw him one day in civic, lurch out onto the road without looking, and a lady screeched to a halt. She was sitting in her car clearly shaking at having nearly hit a pedestrian, and he stood there in the middle of the road and screamed abuse at her, for some time.

Then there was my many run-ins with him, he wanted my office to do something, and I refused, so for several months we had the joy of daily visits from him. And you never knew how far he was likely to go on those visits, the safety of the staff and other clients, how violent he would get. And there was NOTHING we could do about it, becuase he was free to roam the town, doing whatever he liked to whomever he liked.

The stories of what he did at Treasury before they invalided him out on “stress” grounds was horrific. He sure enjoyed sorting out women.

I’m heartened to see all the people with great regard for peoples’ legal rights, but the law does not deal well with people like Eastman who are out of control, but retain their intelligence and cunning. He refused to let his mental state be used in his case/s because he didn’t believe he had a problem (quite the opposite, he was a higher being), but also he knew that invoking mental health would see him placed under the control of the authorities. he wanted to be free to roam the town, doing what he liked doing.

He’s in the right place.

A great place to start is to explain what were the police doing growing dope with italians in Bungendore? answer that please, it has never been explained and I would love to know who said this was ok for the AFP to do this.They flipped it off as an effort to track crime networks but they did it to establish crime networks to train on.
Secondly if you think Eastman is a lunatic go and have a good look at that thug Eric Ninness, a senior officer in the AFP and a big player in operation Seville, according to Nick Pappas, who was representing Eastman at the time, Ninness was the first officer on the scene,why he didn’t call for road blocks?
Eastman was framed to avoid the police explaining why Winchester was shot for breaking the deal he made with mafia,it all unravelled when McKay got shot, then to young couriers were found dead in barrells just outside Griffith on the day of the Whitlams dissmisal, to Hollywood for you? well their it is. The AFP were out of control, look at the Masters report called Police Crop that ran in the eighties about the whole shamozzle, then you will see what a distraction the Winchester murder is from the AFP’s criminal culture!

At least in this circumstance, we don’t have bogans assuming someone is innocent because its impossible for a foreign legal system to be fair….. aka Indonesia and drug convictions.

Affirmative Action Man said :

breda said :

As anyone who had the misfortune to run across Eastman in the years after he left Treasury and slid further into mental illness can tell you, he was paranoid, aggressive and intimidating. One of the consequences of that was that he sabotaged his own trial. The case against him was weak on several fronts, and a defendant who was in control of his faculties with a decent lawyer (he continually sacked his) had a very good chance of being acquitted.

As it turned out, it is a mystery why he was considered to be fit to plead. Perhaps the fact that he had brief periods of lucidity and is exceptionally bright (one of Treasury’s shining stars in his early days) contributed to it. But as dozens of people who had dealings with him can tell you, he lived in a world of paranoid delusions most of the time.

One thing is for sure, the cops wanted to get him so badly you could taste it. All inconvenient facts and alternative lines of inquiry were brushed aside. Winchester’s murder was a major embarrassment, and they needed a conviction. Eastman made it easy for them.

Breda that’s the most lucid statement i have read on the matter.

I recall a psychologist who was a major police witness gave hours and hours of evidence against Eastman. Later I was astounded to find that the psychologist had never actually met Eastman but had made his assessments based on written reports – absolute joke.

The man is a nutter & very unpleasant

but its clearly a set up

I have a ‘friend’ who works at the jail, And I’ve been told Eastman is bat s*** crazy, He should be in a mental health facility, getting the help he needs, not locked in a cell for 23 hours a day. He screams gibberish, he’s been heard crying, I find this completely distressing.

I honestly don’t know too much about this case, but innocent or guilty, mental health should be looked after.

The law usually does a fair job but there are times when the Law is not only an ass but a laughing stock (see Chamberlain L).

You don’t need legal training only common sense to realise that Eastman either didn’t do it or if he did he is barking mad & was not fit to plead.

We all had the same arguments over Lindy Chamberlain. It seems the community can tell when something isn’t quite right about a conviction.

mareva said :

The reason the conviction was, imo improper, was the evidence I mention above. The question MUST be asked – was the conviction solid on that evidence???? Anything more than cursory glance over the evidence and the means by which it was obtained, raises questions in a person’s mind.

I refer you to Spender, Gray and Logan JJ:

“It was in the High Court that the question of Mr Eastman’s fitness to plead at the trial was first raised. There were two issues associated with that question. The first was whether the High Court could, and should, receive further evidence, not before either the trial judge or the first appellate court, for the purpose of establishing Mr Eastman’s mental state at the time of the trial. On this issue, by a majority of 5:2, the High Court held that s 73 of the Constitution operated in relation to the courts of a territory as well as the courts of a state, and did not authorise the High Court to receive further evidence on an appeal. This issue need concern this court no further.”

Eastman v R (2008) 166 FCR 579

PantsMan said :

In the first few years of this fine Territory David Eastman was found guilty and Anu Singh was found innocent.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

That simply is not true. Crispin J:

“On 23 April 1999, after a trial by judge alone, I found the prisoner not guilty of the murder but guilty of the manslaughter of the late Giuseppe Joe Cinque.

Orders
(1) The prisoner be convicted of the manslaughter of the late Giuseppe Joe Cinque on or about 26 October 1997 at Canberra in the Australian Capital Territory.
(2) The prisoner be sentenced to 10 years’ imprisonment.
(3) A period of 4 years be fixed as the period during which the prisoner will be ineligible for parole.
(4) Both the sentence and the non-parole period date from 26 October 1997.

The court recommends that:
(5) Appropriate psychiatric treatment be arranged for the prisoner while she remains a prisoner and that a psychiatric assessment be obtained prior to any consideration of her release upon parole.
(6) That she be considered a prisoner at risk.”

R v SINGH – (1999) 154 ACTR 93

mareva said :

To be convicted of murder, physical & fault elements must be shown to have been simultaneously present beyond the criminal standard of proof. How are such things shown, through evidence. The basis of the conviction in the Eastman trial has never been questioned: the basis was, of course, the evidence. The evidence about the gun, its purchase, the affidavits supporting the Crown’s case that Eastman had bought the murder weapon, evidence about the residue in the boot.

The HCA appeal didn’t deal with this.

The reason the conviction was, imo improper, was the evidence I mention above. The question MUST be asked – was the conviction solid on that evidence???? Anything more than cursory glance over the evidence and the means by which it was obtained, raises questions in a person’s mind.

There is not much doubt left in my mind;- Eastman didn’t do it.

And that is a horrifying prospect when you consider types like Anu Singh & Madhavi Rao, the Cube nightclub owner, Glen Porritt, Russel Field, all knocked off fellow Canberrans and got away scott free. And that poor bugger Eastman? In the clink for life.

Justice in the Territory? lol.

You really have no grasp of either the way the law works nor reality.

Anu Singh didn’t get “away scott free.” She was charged with manslaughter, sentenced to 10yrs and released when eligible for bail after 4yrs.
We can debate whether or not the sentence was appropriate, whether or not she is rehabilitated and whether or not it was murder or manslaughter, but don’t just make stuff up about not being punished at all.

As for Eastman, if you’re going to quote from a first year law textbook, at least read the section about how appeals work. Particularly the part about “question of law” vs “question of fact.”

Eastman appealed to the High Court based on mental fitness in the original proceedings and a subsequent decision by the Federal Court. The High Court heard the arguments and rejected it.

Unfortunately, you are confusing the onus of proof at various stages of the criminal trial process. Confusing original and appellate jurisdiction. And ignoring the facts.

creative_canberran said :

mareva said :

I ask my initial question again – find me a case where the conviction is questioned before you assert, as you did on p1, that he has already had his (appeal) day in court – He hasn’t.

dude, already gave you the case: Eastman v R [2000] HCA 29, otherwise found in 203 CLR 1.
His appeal was heard and rejected by the full bench of the High Court.

To be convicted of murder, physical & fault elements must be shown to have been simultaneously present beyond the criminal standard of proof. How are such things shown, through evidence. The basis of the conviction in the Eastman trial has never been questioned: the basis was, of course, the evidence. The evidence about the gun, its purchase, the affidavits supporting the Crown’s case that Eastman had bought the murder weapon, evidence about the residue in the boot.

The HCA appeal didn’t deal with this.

The reason the conviction was, imo improper, was the evidence I mention above. The question MUST be asked – was the conviction solid on that evidence???? Anything more than cursory glance over the evidence and the means by which it was obtained, raises questions in a person’s mind.

There is not much doubt left in my mind;- Eastman didn’t do it.

And that is a horrifying prospect when you consider types like Anu Singh & Madhavi Rao, the Cube nightclub owner, Glen Porritt, Russel Field, all knocked off fellow Canberrans and got away scott free. And that poor bugger Eastman? In the clink for life.

Justice in the Territory? lol.

In the first few years of this fine Territory David Eastman was found guilty and Anu Singh was found innocent.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

astrojax said :

eastman guilty?

Of Being Stupid??- YES!!

astrojax said :

eastman guilty?

Off Being Stupid??- YES!!

I wonder if he ernt out to shoot with exactly the same propellant used in his ammo, that was found at the crime scene and why would he have gone out shooting with a silencer, a silencer that left the same residue as the one that killed Winchester?

eastman guilty?

dungfungus said :

Anyone know why Winchester parked in his neighbour’s driveway on the fateful night?
Also, a lot of people directly associated with and on the fringes of this case have died since Eastman’s conviction. One that gave damning evidence against Eastman actually committed suicide.

Cutting The Neighbor’s “Grass”?

Is anyone else just the slightest bit wary that this evidence came to light as a result of someone looking to write (and presumably,sell) a book on this matter ?

mareva said :

I ask my initial question again – find me a case where the conviction is questioned before you assert, as you did on p1, that he has already had his (appeal) day in court – He hasn’t.

dude, already gave you the case: Eastman v R [2000] HCA 29, otherwise found in 203 CLR 1.
His appeal was heard and rejected by the full bench of the High Court.

People’s response to Eastman would almost indicate that they think being an a*sehole equates with being a criminal.

creative_canberran said :

mareva said :

Also, you refer to the “claim of being unfit to plead” – er sorry what. This claim was never made. Eastman instructed his lawyers NOT to enter a submission of his unfitness to plead.

see Eastman v R [2000] HCA 29

mareva said :

creative canberran: errr…seems you’re a bit confused. Instead of educating us all of how many case names you found with “Eastman” in them, have a read of those cases. Find me one appeal case that tests the jury’s conviction for murder.

I’ve read several of the cases. Many seem to be vendettas against senior public servants and the public service in general, including recently the public housing commissioner. Others are attempts to rewrite history.

But seriously people, who is the alternative suspect… who happened to use .22, who happened to do it right after Eastman had spent considerable time buying and hiding rifles… who is he?

And this…
Eastman claimed the rifles were for self defence against a neighbour who owned a shot gun. If that were true, what good would the rifle be stuffed in a drain on the Federal Hwy?

I ask my initial question again – find me a case where the conviction is questioned before you assert, as you did on p1, that he has already had his (appeal) day in court – He hasn’t.

who’s the alternative suspect? Er, read the Waterford article.

Very much looking forward to Mr Eastman’s appeal and will be hoping that the SC allows it.

breda said :

As anyone who had the misfortune to run across Eastman in the years after he left Treasury and slid further into mental illness can tell you, he was paranoid, aggressive and intimidating. One of the consequences of that was that he sabotaged his own trial. The case against him was weak on several fronts, and a defendant who was in control of his faculties with a decent lawyer (he continually sacked his) had a very good chance of being acquitted.

As it turned out, it is a mystery why he was considered to be fit to plead. Perhaps the fact that he had brief periods of lucidity and is exceptionally bright (one of Treasury’s shining stars in his early days) contributed to it. But as dozens of people who had dealings with him can tell you, he lived in a world of paranoid delusions most of the time.

One thing is for sure, the cops wanted to get him so badly you could taste it. All inconvenient facts and alternative lines of inquiry were brushed aside. Winchester’s murder was a major embarrassment, and they needed a conviction. Eastman made it easy for them.

Breda that’s the most lucid statement i have read on the matter.

I recall a psychologist who was a major police witness gave hours and hours of evidence against Eastman. Later I was astounded to find that the psychologist had never actually met Eastman but had made his assessments based on written reports – absolute joke.

The man is a nutter & very unpleasant but its clearly a set up

dungfungus said :

Anyone know why Winchester parked in his neighbour’s driveway on the fateful night?.

It was a female neighbour’s driveway, from memory her husband was away or something, and she was scared, so winchester was parking his car there to make it look like the man of the house was home.

Also people may wish to note that this whole debate about Eastman being hard done by in a criminal matter is actually history repeating itself.

EASTMAN v SOMES – (1992) – he claimed denial of natural justice and that the magistrate was bias. Court rejected application.

EASTMAN v SOMES and ANOTHER (No 2) – (1992) – tried again to claim original case invalid due to bias based on a short conversation between Magistrate and the DPP, again application dismissed.

Indeed he was crying hard done by far earlier, in Eastman & Department of Territories & Local Government, Re (1983), he was successful in this matter before the AAT while pursuing documents detailing complaints made against him at his public housing residence.

mareva said :

Also, you refer to the “claim of being unfit to plead” – er sorry what. This claim was never made. Eastman instructed his lawyers NOT to enter a submission of his unfitness to plead.

see Eastman v R [2000] HCA 29

mareva said :

creative canberran: errr…seems you’re a bit confused. Instead of educating us all of how many case names you found with “Eastman” in them, have a read of those cases. Find me one appeal case that tests the jury’s conviction for murder.

I’ve read several of the cases. Many seem to be vendettas against senior public servants and the public service in general, including recently the public housing commissioner. Others are attempts to rewrite history.

But seriously people, who is the alternative suspect… who happened to use .22, who happened to do it right after Eastman had spent considerable time buying and hiding rifles… who is he?

And this…
Eastman claimed the rifles were for self defence against a neighbour who owned a shot gun. If that were true, what good would the rifle be stuffed in a drain on the Federal Hwy?

As anyone who had the misfortune to run across Eastman in the years after he left Treasury and slid further into mental illness can tell you, he was paranoid, aggressive and intimidating. One of the consequences of that was that he sabotaged his own trial. The case against him was weak on several fronts, and a defendant who was in control of his faculties with a decent lawyer (he continually sacked his) had a very good chance of being acquitted.

As it turned out, it is a mystery why he was considered to be fit to plead. Perhaps the fact that he had brief periods of lucidity and is exceptionally bright (one of Treasury’s shining stars in his early days) contributed to it. But as dozens of people who had dealings with him can tell you, he lived in a world of paranoid delusions most of the time.

One thing is for sure, the cops wanted to get him so badly you could taste it. All inconvenient facts and alternative lines of inquiry were brushed aside. Winchester’s murder was a major embarrassment, and they needed a conviction. Eastman made it easy for them.

Creative canberran (again not sure what judge you’re citing here nor have you provided a case citation, nonetheless):- “The fact that the murder weapon has never been found is of no consequence because the ballistics evidence cogently establishes that the rifle which fired the cartridge cases located at the scene, was the one sold by Mr Klarenbeek to the prisoner on 31 December 1988.”

The Klarenbeek “evidence” is problematic to the core. Klarenbeek couldn’t ID Eastman in a line-up. And then he died. There was never any evidence that Klarenbeek sold the weapon to Eastman. My, how probative.

There is an account of the case here – that gives the Canberra Times 4 Nov 1995 as a ref.
http://www.afp.gov.au/media-centre/publications/platypus/previous-editions/1999/october-1999/murder.aspx

Anyone know why Winchester parked in his neighbour’s driveway on the fateful night?
Also, a lot of people directly associated with and on the fringes of this case have died since Eastman’s conviction. One that gave damning evidence against Eastman actually committed suicide.

I also heard from my sisters best friends cousins boyfriend twice removed who read a random article that stated Ivan Milat didn’t kill those backpackers. It’s a conspiracy that goes all the way to the White House errr….. Lodge.

I-filed said :

maybe not technically labelled “undercover” – but a very shadowy character, whose role in the AFP was unclear. Same character has more recently (early 2000s) been on assignation in the Middle East with a rather clumsy alibi [his partner referred to “taking the opportunity to live overseas (in the Middle East!) after “winning some money”]

This just sounds like you’ve got the wrong end of the stick when being told that that numerous members of the AFP are posted overseas to all kinds of countries, and are well paid to take up the offer.

I’m entirely unsuprised that “the AFP know exactly who killed Donald McKay” despite no-one being convicted. They know exactly who robbed my house but until they can prove it, no-one’s getting convicted.

Please.

creative_canberran said :

Let’s consider the following (R v Eastman 1995):

“I am satisfied that after the unsuccessful meeting with Mr Winchester the prisoner focused his hatred of the police and his need for revenge upon Mr Winchester. Thus, the generalised hatred descended to the particular.

It seems clear, however, that prior to the evening of 10 January, the prisoner had stalked the deceased’s premises and given some thought as to how the death of Mr Winchester could most suitably be achieved. It is, of course, impossible to discern with precision his mental processes at about
this time, but insight can be obtained from the evidence of Mr Barbara and Dr Roantree Neither of these witnesses was challenged by cross-examination. Although Mr Barbara could not be precise about dates, he said: that the prisoner said to him in either late November or early December 1988, “I’ll kill Winchester and I’ll get the Ombudsman too”.

At a consultation in the afternoon of 6 January 1989, ie four days before the murder, Dr Roantree said that the prisoner told him that he was worried about the pending assault charge that had been brought against him and that he had been to see the Police Commissioner (sic) with a political figure and he hadn’t received any help there at all. (This was clearly a reference to Mr Winchester.) In fact, he said, that he had been thrown out or virtually thrown out of the office.

Dr Roantree responded by saying, “You can’t do things like that. You can’t push Police Commissioners off their chair’; Dr Roantree sensed extreme anger on the part of the prisoner towards that comment. The prisoner responded by saying that he was not listened to at all and that he was furious.
Dr Roantree then deflected the conversation to the prisoner’s medical condition which was the subject of consultation. However, the prisoner made the comment that the police should be taught a lesson. He said, according to Dr Roantree, “Every time something happens he feels – felt that he was suspected and that every time he reports – reported anything, he got the blame”.

At the conclusion of the consultation he exclaimed as he was leaving, “I should shoot the bastard”.
When one considers the statements made to Mr Barbara and Dr Roantree in the light of the totality of the evidence in the case, they have a very chilling effect indeed. The totality of the evidence makes it perfectly clear that they were in fact threats which were not only intended to be taken seriously, but were in fact acted upon.”

and

“The fact that the murder weapon has never been found is of no consequence because the ballistics evidence cogently establishes that the rifle which fired the cartridge cases located at the scene, was the one sold by Mr Klarenbeek to the prisoner on 31 December 1988.”

and

“When interviewed by police officers on the day following the murder, the prisoner asserted that he had no recollection of his precise movements on the previous evening between the hours of 8pm and 10pm.”

If you read the whole case, you’ll see he spent considerably effort trying to purchase various rifles including Rugger .22s, and he did not deny hiding one of these under the Federal Hwy.

Now let’s consider the alternative. Another individual wanted to kill Winchester, who just happened to use .22 ammunition, from most probably a Rugger, who just happened to do it at a time when Eastman was also heated up over dealing with Winchester and police.

Speculation…Pure Speculation!And I Might Add… Circumstantial…To The Gallows.

creative canberran: errr…seems you’re a bit confused. Instead of educating us all of how many case names you found with “Eastman” in them, have a read of those cases. Find me one appeal case that tests the jury’s conviction for murder. Not one. He has never been able to get an appeal up for the conviction that deals with jury directions re the evidence; jury directions re how the evidence was tendered/obtained. Further, you cite a bunch of people in your excerpt from the 1995 (sentencing? not sure) remarks. Go and find out how long after the shooting (89) those people did sworn affidavits about their evidence (wasn’t arrested for 3 tears despite the police investigation commencing immediately and Eastman being the only suspect fully investigated)

Also, you refer to the “claim of being unfit to plead” – er sorry what. This claim was never made. Eastman instructed his lawyers NOT to enter a submission of his unfitness to plead. And despite the Crown having psych reports demonstrating unfitness to plead the question was never raised. Ministers of justice my ass. If you have any appreciation for the justice process you will realise what a sad indictment this is on our courts and DPP.

You are basic as hell creative canberran, I suggest you stop lecturing others on your surface level understanding of this case and dig a little deeper.

Let’s consider the following (R v Eastman 1995):

“I am satisfied that after the unsuccessful meeting with Mr Winchester the prisoner focused his hatred of the police and his need for revenge upon Mr Winchester. Thus, the generalised hatred descended to the particular.

It seems clear, however, that prior to the evening of 10 January, the prisoner had stalked the deceased’s premises and given some thought as to how the death of Mr Winchester could most suitably be achieved. It is, of course, impossible to discern with precision his mental processes at about
this time, but insight can be obtained from the evidence of Mr Barbara and Dr Roantree Neither of these witnesses was challenged by cross-examination. Although Mr Barbara could not be precise about dates, he said: that the prisoner said to him in either late November or early December 1988, “I’ll kill Winchester and I’ll get the Ombudsman too”.

At a consultation in the afternoon of 6 January 1989, ie four days before the murder, Dr Roantree said that the prisoner told him that he was worried about the pending assault charge that had been brought against him and that he had been to see the Police Commissioner (sic) with a political figure and he hadn’t received any help there at all. (This was clearly a reference to Mr Winchester.) In fact, he said, that he had been thrown out or virtually thrown out of the office.

Dr Roantree responded by saying, “You can’t do things like that. You can’t push Police Commissioners off their chair’; Dr Roantree sensed extreme anger on the part of the prisoner towards that comment. The prisoner responded by saying that he was not listened to at all and that he was furious.
Dr Roantree then deflected the conversation to the prisoner’s medical condition which was the subject of consultation. However, the prisoner made the comment that the police should be taught a lesson. He said, according to Dr Roantree, “Every time something happens he feels – felt that he was suspected and that every time he reports – reported anything, he got the blame”.

At the conclusion of the consultation he exclaimed as he was leaving, “I should shoot the bastard”.
When one considers the statements made to Mr Barbara and Dr Roantree in the light of the totality of the evidence in the case, they have a very chilling effect indeed. The totality of the evidence makes it perfectly clear that they were in fact threats which were not only intended to be taken seriously, but were in fact acted upon.”

and

“The fact that the murder weapon has never been found is of no consequence because the ballistics evidence cogently establishes that the rifle which fired the cartridge cases located at the scene, was the one sold by Mr Klarenbeek to the prisoner on 31 December 1988.”

and

“When interviewed by police officers on the day following the murder, the prisoner asserted that he had no recollection of his precise movements on the previous evening between the hours of 8pm and 10pm.”

If you read the whole case, you’ll see he spent considerably effort trying to purchase various rifles including Rugger .22s, and he did not deny hiding one of these under the Federal Hwy.

Now let’s consider the alternative. Another individual wanted to kill Winchester, who just happened to use .22 ammunition, from most probably a Rugger, who just happened to do it at a time when Eastman was also heated up over dealing with Winchester and police.

Eastman was “not normal” so should not have been put to trial? Every day, that man was out terrorising ordinary people. Bullying them, assaulting them, scaring the crap out of them, threatening them, he was a very nasty and violent and cunning piece of work. Good grief, “not normal”, the poor little thing. I very much enjoyed saying “no” to him which sent him into an apoplectic rage, yet next day back he’d come, more threats, more demands, and another tantrum when he didn’t get what he wanted.

and in jail or out of it, he was living on the taxpayer’s dime.

creative_canberran said :

WillowJim said :

I just can’t understand how anyone – cop or not – would be ready to sneer at new evidence like this.

What new evidence?

This is evidence:
“Eastman bought a Stirling rifle fitted with a telescopic sight from Geoffrey Bradshaw on February 10, 1988. He returned the gun, but not the sight, later in the day. He said he smashed the sight and threw it in a bin. At the time of the purchase, he had parked his car out of sight and gave Bradshaw a false name and address.

Three days later, he bought a Ruger rifle from James Lenaghan. He asked if he could buy it without a licence and again parked out of sight. Some time later — Eastman said it was one or two months later — he placed the Ruger and 46 rounds of Stinger ammunition, both in a gunbag, in a drain under the Old Federal Highway. These were found by a member of the public on May 1 and handed to police.”

Normal people do not go around buying rifles under false identities. Normal people do not buy guns illegally then stuff them under a public road.

The fact that a school teacher may have borrowed his car sometime in the 80s to carry a weapon is inconsequential given Eastman was obviously locked and loaded enough times himself.

And let’s be honest, Jack Waterford is the last person who should be spouting criticism at others given the dying paper he presides over.

I don’t believe it was ever proven that this Ruger was the murder weapon. Also, the police “claim” they traced every Ruger in Australia but I know of two licensed Rugers that were not located and checked by the police (how hard is that?) so this is circumstantial evidence at best.
A lot of people who may have other evidence were afraid to get involved with the police who were investigating the murder. I agree with you that Eastman was not “normal” in which case he should not have been put to trial. We haven’t heard the last of this.

Does this mean he’ll get his public housing unit back?

mareva said :

Wait for the appeal. My money is on the jury conviction being quashed and Eastman walking free. The conviction was a joke and everyone knows it. Enough is enough.

“The appeal”

Check the court records, he has over 25 cases to his name, Eastman has no credibility left.

Also, appeals rely on error of law, not error of fact so this affidavit will do nothing unless the DPP is on side, which they won’t be.

Eastman is finished. The hooker he tried to use as an alibi didn’t pan out, nor the claim of being unfit to plead. He shall rot in jail, the taxpayer funding the remainder of his sorry time on earth… now there’s the real injustice.

I don’t think Eastman did it (for several reasons), but I do believe he was somehow involved. I fairly certain there’s more to the story than most of us know.

Given that the arguments in this case have been prosecuted by each side to the fullest extent provided for by Australian law, can anyone enlighten me to what avenues are left to test this new (and seemingly underwhelming) new evidence?

creative_canberran said :

WillowJim said :

.[/quote>

Not commenting on his guilt or innocence but, no one is arguing whether David Eastman is normal or not. Just because he did these things does not prove beyond reasonable doubt that he killed someone.

Psst, I’ll tell you who killed Don McKay. (hint, the bloke tried and convicted of his murder)

If you want to know who killed Colin Winchester, I can tell you that one as well.

The people who think he dun it, you’ve got nothing left. The conviction was a joke. You Wait and see if the appeal is allowed. It will be. Wait and see if the conviction is quashed. It will be.

creative_canberran said :

WillowJim said :

I just can’t understand how anyone – cop or not – would be ready to sneer at new evidence like this.

What new evidence?

This is evidence:
“Eastman bought a Stirling rifle fitted with a telescopic sight from Geoffrey Bradshaw on February 10, 1988. He returned the gun, but not the sight, later in the day. He said he smashed the sight and threw it in a bin. At the time of the purchase, he had parked his car out of sight and gave Bradshaw a false name and address.

Three days later, he bought a Ruger rifle from James Lenaghan. He asked if he could buy it without a licence and again parked out of sight. Some time later — Eastman said it was one or two months later — he placed the Ruger and 46 rounds of Stinger ammunition, both in a gunbag, in a drain under the Old Federal Highway. These were found by a member of the public on May 1 and handed to police.”

Normal people do not go around buying rifles under false identities. Normal people do not buy guns illegally then stuff them under a public road.

The fact that a school teacher may have borrowed his car sometime in the 80s to carry a weapon is inconsequential given Eastman was obviously locked and loaded enough times himself.

And let’s be honest, Jack Waterford is the last person who should be spouting criticism at others given the dying paper he presides over.

1. re the evidence you cite, look at the process by which it was obtained and tendered before you assume it’s reliable (hint: it’s not);
2. “normal”? (a) Eastman was insane, so no probably not normal (b) abnormality is not an element of murder.
3. your comments about the journo are of zero relevance to Eastman’s guilt or non guilt.

Wait for the appeal. My money is on the jury conviction being quashed and Eastman walking free. The conviction was a joke and everyone knows it. Enough is enough.

Kuku said :

1. MacKay died in 1977
2. The AFP came into being in 1979
3. In the 1980’s and 1990’s there were no undercover police. The AFP had a policy of not having UC during this time.
4. The entire the AFP knew? Get real.

1. And? – yes, 30+ years ago.
2. And? – the “investigation” into McKay’s death was and still is “unsolved” (publicly)
3. And? – maybe not technically labelled “undercover” – but a very shadowy character, whose role in the AFP was unclear. Same character has more recently (early 2000s) been on assignation in the Middle East with a rather clumsy alibi [his partner referred to “taking the opportunity to live overseas (in the Middle East!) after “winning some money”]
4. All right then, “anyone in the AFP who should be in the know, would have been in the know”.

Kuku said :

I-filed said :

I have always had a very uncomfortable gut feeling about Eastman’s conviction – knowing how corrupt the police are. One of the nastiest people I’ve ever come across is an AFP undercover police officer whose then-teenage daughter told me once that he knows exactly who murdered Donald McKay in Griffith 30+ years ago. The entire AFP knows, apparently, and I’m not privy to why that information is kept quiet. The Griffith connection with the Winchester suspects from Bungendore has always had me concerned that Eastman was a fall guy. Of course the AFP could stitch him up. I think the truth is yet to out re Eastman. Clearly he’s an unpopular troubled and difficult individual with a flawed personality – just the kind of person who will alienate his legal reps etc and annoy the judiciary. Prime candidate for a travesty of justice.

1. MacKay died in 1977
2. The AFP came into being in 1979
3. In the 1980’s and 1990’s there were no undercover police. The AFP had a policy of not having UC during this time.
4. The entire the AFP knew? Get real.

But… On Underbelly….

I-filed said :

I have always had a very uncomfortable gut feeling about Eastman’s conviction – knowing how corrupt the police are. One of the nastiest people I’ve ever come across is an AFP undercover police officer whose then-teenage daughter told me once that he knows exactly who murdered Donald McKay in Griffith 30+ years ago. The entire AFP knows, apparently, and I’m not privy to why that information is kept quiet. The Griffith connection with the Winchester suspects from Bungendore has always had me concerned that Eastman was a fall guy. Of course the AFP could stitch him up. I think the truth is yet to out re Eastman. Clearly he’s an unpopular troubled and difficult individual with a flawed personality – just the kind of person who will alienate his legal reps etc and annoy the judiciary. Prime candidate for a travesty of justice.

1. MacKay died in 1977
2. The AFP came into being in 1979
3. In the 1980’s and 1990’s there were no undercover police. The AFP had a policy of not having UC during this time.
4. The entire the AFP knew? Get real.

krats said :

Felix the Cat said :

I-filed said :

One of the nastiest people I’ve ever come across is an AFP undercover police officer whose then-teenage daughter told me once that he knows exactly who murdered Donald McKay in Griffith 30+ years ago.

As if the guy is going to tell his teenage daughter such a crucial bit of information – even if he suppoosedly did know.

“Pillow Talk”

I didn’t say he told her – I said she knew. She may have overheard – exceptionally intelligent young person, likely to have had it assumed that she wouldn’t have known what they were talking about. She would have had no reason to inflate the topic in a conversation with me.

Felix the Cat said :

I-filed said :

One of the nastiest people I’ve ever come across is an AFP undercover police officer whose then-teenage daughter told me once that he knows exactly who murdered Donald McKay in Griffith 30+ years ago.

As if the guy is going to tell his teenage daughter such a crucial bit of information – even if he suppoosedly did know.

“Pillow Talk”

I-filed said :

One of the nastiest people I’ve ever come across is an AFP undercover police officer whose then-teenage daughter told me once that he knows exactly who murdered Donald McKay in Griffith 30+ years ago.

As if the guy is going to tell his teenage daughter such a crucial bit of information – even if he suppoosedly did know.

Hmmmm.

Firstly, have they located the actual firearm used in the killing? Serious question – I didn’t they actually had the firearm even after a nation-wide search.

Secondly, if there is new information (including a sworn affidavit apparently), then lets see it. Some in the legal arena have always thought there was a ‘smell’ about the case and indeed some in the AFP have been split over the conviction.

I have always had a very uncomfortable gut feeling about Eastman’s conviction – knowing how corrupt the police are. One of the nastiest people I’ve ever come across is an AFP undercover police officer whose then-teenage daughter told me once that he knows exactly who murdered Donald McKay in Griffith 30+ years ago. The entire AFP knows, apparently, and I’m not privy to why that information is kept quiet. The Griffith connection with the Winchester suspects from Bungendore has always had me concerned that Eastman was a fall guy. Of course the AFP could stitch him up. I think the truth is yet to out re Eastman. Clearly he’s an unpopular troubled and difficult individual with a flawed personality – just the kind of person who will alienate his legal reps etc and annoy the judiciary. Prime candidate for a travesty of justice.

WillowJim said :

I just can’t understand how anyone – cop or not – would be ready to sneer at new evidence like this.

What new evidence?

This is evidence:
“Eastman bought a Stirling rifle fitted with a telescopic sight from Geoffrey Bradshaw on February 10, 1988. He returned the gun, but not the sight, later in the day. He said he smashed the sight and threw it in a bin. At the time of the purchase, he had parked his car out of sight and gave Bradshaw a false name and address.

Three days later, he bought a Ruger rifle from James Lenaghan. He asked if he could buy it without a licence and again parked out of sight. Some time later — Eastman said it was one or two months later — he placed the Ruger and 46 rounds of Stinger ammunition, both in a gunbag, in a drain under the Old Federal Highway. These were found by a member of the public on May 1 and handed to police.”

Normal people do not go around buying rifles under false identities. Normal people do not buy guns illegally then stuff them under a public road.

The fact that a school teacher may have borrowed his car sometime in the 80s to carry a weapon is inconsequential given Eastman was obviously locked and loaded enough times himself.

And let’s be honest, Jack Waterford is the last person who should be spouting criticism at others given the dying paper he presides over.

mareva said :

“You’re not paranoid if they really are out to get you.”

Exactly. The amount of people who have said rubbish like, even if he didn’t do it he deserves to be in there, is sickening. Consider that he really didn’t do it – well if it was me I’d be spinning out, personally.

Tooks “the mountain of other evidence” was equally circumstantial.

So what. Circumstantial or not, the evidence was compelling. Most people who go on about conspiracy theories and suggest that the dozens of police involved in the investigation were corrupt and framed Eastman, know bugger all about the case and haven’t even bothered doing any basic reading about the evidence in question.

Well, maybe you were involved in that trial, Tooks, and know it well. I wasn’t, but I know Waterford covered the trial as a reporter. So I assume he was being factual when he wrote:

Eastman was convicted from a strong chain of circumstantial evidence, much of which turned in a controversial, but at the time uncontested, set of linkages and deductions made from forensic findings about gunshot residue.

I just can’t understand how anyone – cop or not – would be ready to sneer at new evidence like this.

“You’re not paranoid if they really are out to get you.”

Exactly. The amount of people who have said rubbish like, even if he didn’t do it he deserves to be in there, is sickening. Consider that he really didn’t do it – well if it was me I’d be spinning out, personally.

Tooks “the mountain of other evidence” was equally circumstantial.

Now all Waterford needs to do is discredit the mountain of other evidence and he’s on to something.