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EFTPOS not accepted in Canberra?

By La_Tour_Maubourg 5 November 2013 87

Does anybody else get annoyed with this in this day and age? You order food at a cafe, bill comes at $50+ then told EFTPOS is not accepted.

Surely these days having an EFTPOS terminal is essential to a business as people like myself seem to carry less cash. If Medicare has now gone cashless surely that can set an example to other retail businesses?


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EFTPOS not accepted in Canberra?
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maxblues 10:50 am 28 Nov 13

m_ratt said :

maxblues said :

This week in Canberra, one of our staff rang police to report a fraudulent Pay Wave transaction but the police were reluctant to act.

Why would you bother trying to report a transaction?
Sure, report the card stolen; but if you’ve done your bit and reported it to the card owner (the issuer, ie, your bank), then it’s not your money to worry about. What exactly are the police supposed to to about it? Waste hundreds of dollars of scarce police time to investigate a <$100 purchase which will be written off by the bank?

The card issuers have done their research and have obviously decided that any additional (I'm less than convinced there's actually any additional risk) risk of loss is more than worth the reward from increased revenue from card use through convenience to card holders.

If they issuers were worried, they wouldn't offer it.

We report it to police because it is not just about one transaction, the offenders make a living by stealing cards and using them all day everyday. When a Police service calls on banks to withdraw the technology, it is time to sit up and take notice.

Antagonist 10:25 am 28 Nov 13

tommo said :

On the split bills thing, I agree 10 people splitting a $50 bill is ridiculous, but at the same time 10 people not being allowed to split a $500 is also ridiculous.

The problem with bill splitting is not the charges that go with it. It is the dishonest people before them who have not paid for all of their items, leaving the last person in line to pay the outstanding items on the bill. And that last person (understandably) makes a big scene about it with the vendor. I totally agree with the no bill splitting policy.

m_ratt 9:13 am 28 Nov 13

maxblues said :

This week in Canberra, one of our staff rang police to report a fraudulent Pay Wave transaction but the police were reluctant to act.

Why would you bother trying to report a transaction?
Sure, report the card stolen; but if you’ve done your bit and reported it to the card owner (the issuer, ie, your bank), then it’s not your money to worry about. What exactly are the police supposed to to about it? Waste hundreds of dollars of scarce police time to investigate a <$100 purchase which will be written off by the bank?

The card issuers have done their research and have obviously decided that any additional (I'm less than convinced there's actually any additional risk) risk of loss is more than worth the reward from increased revenue from card use through convenience to card holders.

If they issuers were worried, they wouldn't offer it.

RadioVK 8:54 am 28 Nov 13

cmb said :

If the paywave machine can read your credit card via simple proximity, so can a properly equipped thief.

On balance, it’s fairly safe as a payment method, but it’s not anywhere near as secure as the banks would have you believe.

The banks wear the risk associated with paypass fraud. And how much security did the old system of requring a signature really provide?

The quotes got screwed up last time, so I’ll try again:

At least with the signature system, you actually needed physical access to the card, and the card still needs to be swiped through the EFTPOS terminal. With Paywave, you can make a transaction without the cashier ever having to actually see the card.

The issue is more about how easy it would be to steal your card details without having physical access to it.

RadioVK 8:52 am 28 Nov 13

cmb said :

If the paywave machine can read your credit card via simple proximity, so can a properly equipped thief.

On balance, it’s fairly safe as a payment method, but it’s not anywhere near as secure as the banks would have you believe.

The banks wear the risk associated with paypass fraud. And how much security did the old system of requring a signature really provide?

At least with the signature system, you actually needed physical access to the card, and the card still needs to be swiped through the EFTPOS terminal. With Paywave, you can make a transaction without the cashier ever having to actually see the card.

The issue is more about how easy it would be to steal your card details without having physical access to it.

maxblues 5:51 am 28 Nov 13

RadioVK said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Only the most gigantic of paranoid morons fear pay wave.

Embrace science, idiots.

You might not be saying that if you actually understood the technology.

If the paywave machine can read your credit card via simple proximity, so can a properly equipped thief.

The only redeeming features is that the amount of financial damage that can be done with the information stolen via paywave is limited due to the transaction limits imposed on paywave transactions, and the fact that the banks policy on fraudulent transactions is quite generous.

On balance, it’s fairly safe as a payment method, but it’s not anywhere near as secure as the banks would have you believe.

WIN Early News has reported that Victorian Police have held a press conference to proclaim that eftpos fraud is up 30% since the introduction of Pay Wave and are calling on banks to withdraw the Pay Wave technology. This week in Canberra, one of our staff rang police to report a fraudulent Pay Wave transaction but the police were reluctant to act.

cmb 1:05 pm 25 Nov 13

If the paywave machine can read your credit card via simple proximity, so can a properly equipped thief.

On balance, it’s fairly safe as a payment method, but it’s not anywhere near as secure as the banks would have you believe.

The banks wear the risk associated with paypass fraud. And how much security did the old system of requring a signature really provide?

cmb 1:04 pm 25 Nov 13

Businesses without EFTPOS / Paypass are doing themselves out of business. I rarely carry much cash on me these days, and purchase less or nothing from businesses where I can’t use cards

RadioVK 8:57 am 20 Nov 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Only the most gigantic of paranoid morons fear pay wave.

Embrace science, idiots.

You might not be saying that if you actually understood the technology.

If the paywave machine can read your credit card via simple proximity, so can a properly equipped thief.

The only redeeming features is that the amount of financial damage that can be done with the information stolen via paywave is limited due to the transaction limits imposed on paywave transactions, and the fact that the banks policy on fraudulent transactions is quite generous.

On balance, it’s fairly safe as a payment method, but it’s not anywhere near as secure as the banks would have you believe.

maxblues 6:33 pm 19 Nov 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Only the most gigantic of paranoid morons fear pay wave.

Embrace science, idiots.

We know when scumbags with stolen pay wave cards come into our business, because the first question they ask (within seconds of entering the store) is “do you have pay wave?”.

cbjcurtin 4:17 pm 19 Nov 13

thatsnotme said :

cbjcurtin said :

As a small business we love Eftpos, there is no risk to us, the money is deposited in our bank the same day (usually by 11pm). We encourage people to use Eftpos that way we use less change and less trips to the bank. We have no minimum spend, I honestly cant see why all businesses wouldn’t want/need eftpos.

The costs aren’t really that big for a business the bank owns all the equipment and services it. all you do is pay a very small percentage on some transactions and a small flat fee on others.

Would you mind sharing what your total cost is per EFTPOS transaction? I know that EFTPOS charge 5 cents for transactions above $15, and nothing for transactions below $15, but the merchant fees charged by the banks themselves aren’t available to look up online.

If I came to your business and spent $7.50, via EFTPOS (from a savings account, not on a credit card) what would that cost you? If I’d spent $3, or $20, how much would that expense to you change?

I understand if you choose not to answer, but I’d love to know what the actual cost to business of a standard non-credit card transaction is. There are so many elements involved, that you’d I think have to work at a bank, or operate a business, to ever know.

Really sorry for the slow reply, but we pay:
a $32 a month flat fee for the terminal (we have 4)
debit card payments cost us 14c flat fee
standard credit card cost .74%
Premium credit cards cost us 1.29%
and commercial credit cards cost us 1.44%

the cost of sales across all eftpos and credit sales on our last months bill was .92% which I see as cheap compared with other costs and loses.

Felix the Cat 10:40 am 11 Nov 13

BimboGeek said :

You might find that the “no split bills” cafes are happy to make an exception if you make it easy for them.

Yes, my friend and I went to a cafe/restaurant the other day where they had a sign “no bill splitting” and we asked if they would (yes, I know there was a sign, but if you don’t ask you don’t get, and we were the only people in the place) and they agreed we could pay half each. On EFTPOS.

screaming banshee 6:46 pm 10 Nov 13

thatsnotme said :

cbjcurtin said :

As a small business we love Eftpos, there is no risk to us, the money is deposited in our bank the same day (usually by 11pm). We encourage people to use Eftpos that way we use less change and less trips to the bank. We have no minimum spend, I honestly cant see why all businesses wouldn’t want/need eftpos.

The costs aren’t really that big for a business the bank owns all the equipment and services it. all you do is pay a very small percentage on some transactions and a small flat fee on others.

Would you mind sharing what your total cost is per EFTPOS transaction? I know that EFTPOS charge 5 cents for transactions above $15, and nothing for transactions below $15, but the merchant fees charged by the banks themselves aren’t available to look up online.

If I came to your business and spent $7.50, via EFTPOS (from a savings account, not on a credit card) what would that cost you? If I’d spent $3, or $20, how much would that expense to you change?

I understand if you choose not to answer, but I’d love to know what the actual cost to business of a standard non-credit card transaction is. There are so many elements involved, that you’d I think have to work at a bank, or operate a business, to ever know.

With a throughput mostly between 1-5k per month ( in other words quite low) we pay 5c flat per eftpos and 0.64% on credit.

BimboGeek 11:42 am 10 Nov 13

Split bills, like corkage on the fourth bottle, are discretionary. If there’s a long line behind the group it’s difficult for waiters and other customers to get around them, they each wish to split differently and so on, then it’s easier to offer change or bring the eftpos to the table after they already figured out who owes what. It’s rude to say never, but it’s fair to push back a little. You might find that the “no split bills” cafes are happy to make an exception if you make it easy for them.

tommo 11:00 pm 09 Nov 13

On the split bills thing, I agree 10 people splitting a $50 bill is ridiculous, but at the same time 10 people not being allowed to split a $500 is also ridiculous.

thatsnotme 4:54 pm 07 Nov 13

cbjcurtin said :

As a small business we love Eftpos, there is no risk to us, the money is deposited in our bank the same day (usually by 11pm). We encourage people to use Eftpos that way we use less change and less trips to the bank. We have no minimum spend, I honestly cant see why all businesses wouldn’t want/need eftpos.

The costs aren’t really that big for a business the bank owns all the equipment and services it. all you do is pay a very small percentage on some transactions and a small flat fee on others.

Would you mind sharing what your total cost is per EFTPOS transaction? I know that EFTPOS charge 5 cents for transactions above $15, and nothing for transactions below $15, but the merchant fees charged by the banks themselves aren’t available to look up online.

If I came to your business and spent $7.50, via EFTPOS (from a savings account, not on a credit card) what would that cost you? If I’d spent $3, or $20, how much would that expense to you change?

I understand if you choose not to answer, but I’d love to know what the actual cost to business of a standard non-credit card transaction is. There are so many elements involved, that you’d I think have to work at a bank, or operate a business, to ever know.

c_c™ 1:42 pm 07 Nov 13

what_the said :

What about those swipe attachment to iPads where transactions are processed through the iPad. This seems like a really good low cost option.

The cost isn’t in the hardware, merchant terminals are owned by the banks and leased to a merchant for a pittance of a monthly fee. Where it kicks them is in the transaction fee, % calculated on a sliding scale. Micropayment services like the ones who supply those dongles tend to be a bit steeper than what you can negotiate with the banks.

zorro29 said :

well said, #65 and #66….totally agree about parking meters (for any $ amount it’s annoying, but I recall some in Canberra with $13 fees and only take coins!! Not just cash…coins only and no change given…total rort…)

also seems more unsafe to me. surely having less cash around is a better option all-around

Parking meters is where it really does make sense to have cards, and what’s particularly annoying is that the current 2000 series machines that are in most ACT Government carparks, always had the provision to accept card payments if they were specced by the customer. They were ordered obviously without that functionality, because some moron in Urban Services back in the day probably didn’t know about inflation.

cbjcurtin 1:40 pm 07 Nov 13

As a small business we love Eftpos, there is no risk to us, the money is deposited in our bank the same day (usually by 11pm). We encourage people to use Eftpos that way we use less change and less trips to the bank. We have no minimum spend, I honestly cant see why all businesses wouldn’t want/need eftpos.

The costs aren’t really that big for a business the bank owns all the equipment and services it. all you do is pay a very small percentage on some transactions and a small flat fee on others.

Felix the Cat 1:08 pm 07 Nov 13

watto23 said :

Mike Bessenger said :

Having eftpos would attract the tards that want to put there $3.50 coffee on to their credit card, or the muppets who use a visa debit card and select credit, or the 10 hipsters that want to split their $50 bill 10 ways and each pay using there frequent flier gold credit card.

We’re talking about small business here, if people pull their heads in you might find that more small food business’ might start taking cards.

All of these can be cafe rules, ie minimum eftpos purchase and no split bills. But that in itself is why this thread started. Usually you are unaware of the terms and conditions until it comes time to pay.

Don’t forget adding a surcharge for Public Holidays as well…

kea 12:54 pm 07 Nov 13

I normally carry a bit of cash on me, but yesterday the cash I had on me was enough to pay for a few hours of parking, so I used it for that. After a long meeting and a heated emotional discussion, I went into the closest takeaway/cafe type store to buy a cold drink. They had eftpost, they had Paywave, but they also had a $10 minimum and refused to even add $1 to the total to allow me to purchase a drink from their establishment. I walked outside and discovered right next door, a kwik-e-mart, and went inside to buy a drink. They also had eftpos AND paywave, but this place now had an $11 minimum. It was hot, I’m 6 months pregnant and I just wanted to buy a cold drink and I don’t see why I should now have to look around for things I may or may not want, just to fulfil their policy of a minimum eftpos amount when all I need is something cold to drink. I called for the manager who would not offer any other solution, would not accept my offer of simply adding another $1 to the transaction amount.. So I asked for a glass of water. They shook their head and said no, sorry, we can’t offer that either.

This was the Cafe on Childers in the new part of ANU and the store next to it.

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