GDE Stage 2 starting soon, completion much later

This bottleneck at spaghetti junction (aka Glenloch) is exactly what everyone who used it regularly predicted – the GDE would be (and has become) a way of feeding more traffic, more quickly into a dysfunctional and clogged up road junction.

It’s no suprise at all, to anyone other than those enlightened ACT Government planners.

Will we get new “Artwork” as well?

Heading north from Belco to Gin @ 5pm I was stunned to come to complete stop, I guess because of those waiting for the lights on Gin. So north will work.
Going south, there’s the fundamental problem of GDE, Parksway, and ??? feeding into the two lanes of the Parkway. Parksway into Civic is usually clagged too in the morning so improving Glenoch will do nothing there either.

V twin venom said :

shanefos said :

Kramer said :

Make Bindubi (sp?) Street and Coulter Drive both into dual carriage ways too!

Er, why?

To reduce the volume of traffic turning off Belco Way on to the GDE and thus reducing the potential for the bottleneck at the Interchange.

The only problem with that theory is that by using Bindubi street, you still need to utilise the Glenloch interchange to get to both the city and to southern canberra, unless you use coppins crossing road, which will also be a construction zone too soon when work begins for the molonglo access road.

Imagine the convenience and less hassle if Stanhope had half a brain and built it properly in one go. I hope they address the major design flaws in the Glenloch when completing stage 2. I think instead of borrowing for the work, it should be paid off out of the Government ministers’ salaries for as a payment for their incompetence.

caf said :

All of the linked documents are for the Northern Roads & Bridges part, although the Southern part is what’s apparently being done first.

So there is a ‘Southern’ document that covers what is happening at Glenloch? That is the bit I really want to see!

aronde: The executive summary in the last document (preliminary sketch plans) says this:

Stage 2 has been separated into two areas, Northern Roads & Bridges, and Southern Roads & Bridges. This report focuses on the Northern Roads & Bridges.

All of the linked documents are for the Northern Roads & Bridges part, although the Southern part is what’s apparently being done first.

(That document has a great picture of Canberra’s own “Bridge To Nowhere” on the cover, right in the middle of Glenloch Interchange!)

Does anyone know what the signs are about on GDE stating “No $ area” or something similar?
Also, what are they making just off to the Ellenborough St southbound side of GDE? Is it a ramp leading down to Ellenborough St, an extra lane or a bike path or…?

Great link Nifty! I’ve had a quick look through but it seems to me nothing is happening at Glenloch? Below is cut from the sketch plans document dealing with the ‘North’ stage –

“The main features of the north roads and bridges package are:
1. Construction of the southbound bridge over the Barton Highway.
2. Construction of a new southbound 2-lane carriageway from the Barton Highway to
Ginninderra Drive.
3. Duplication of the super-tee overpasses at Ellenborough Street and Ginninderra Drive plus a
pre-cast concrete arch fauna underpass at Lyneham Ridge.
4. Additional lanes on the north end south bound carriageway between Ginninderra Drive and
Belconnen Way.
5. Duplication of the Belconnen Way overpass.
6. Duplication of the roadworks from Belconnen Way through to the Aranda fauna overpass.”

I really hope there is another document dealing with additional lanes at Glenloch!

chewy14 said :

Niftydog,
your links seem to be the info for the north roads part of the project…

Yeah I noticed that, but I only recall seeing one DA on the ACTPLA site and I’ve been unable to find any reference to a complementary “south roads” project. I was prompted to look for it because of the DA notification signs that were up around Bruce Ridge a few weeks back – can’t say I’ve ever seen such signs down around Glenloch.

One interesting point in those design documents is that the design speed of the duplicated road is 100km/h.

Gungahlin Al: The interest payments are a P&L item though. An additional $85mil borrowed three years earlier would have cost us a cool $13mil in additional interest.

Dante said :

I sometimes wonder if the problem isn’t the roads but the drivers on it and their unwillingness to work together to ensure everyone gets to where they need to go safely.

Instead, there’s an attitude of “Get out of my way.. don’t you even dare think about cutting in front of me! This is MY ROAD!!!”

HERE HERE!!!!
Totally agree, maybe putting every Canberran through a ‘how to drive course’ and a ‘dont panic its only merging course’ would be a better idea (probably cost less as well)

argh, take the comma off the end of the link and it will work.

From the looks of some of the comments here, if the CT wanted to save a bit of cash and republish pryor cartoons from 30 years ago such as this one, http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-an22965149, they still would get a chuckle.

Thanks Nifty – brilliant. I missed them when posted.

Niftydog,
your links seem to be the info for the north roads part of the project and not for the first bit of the project at the southern end at Glenloch.
Can someone assure me that they will fix Glenloch interchange this time?

So I stuffed up some of the href’s so you’ll have to copy paste the first lot of links. Sorry. 😉

Glad I don’t use it except to get to Bunnings.

Where are you going from/to, that you need to go through Glenlock to get to bunnings?

shanefos said :

Kramer said :

Make Bindubi (sp?) Street and Coulter Drive both into dual carriage ways too!

Er, why?

To reduce the volume of traffic turning off Belco Way on to the GDE and thus reducing the potential for the bottleneck at the Interchange.

Kramer said :

Make Bindubi (sp?) Street and Coulter Drive both into dual carriage ways too!

Er, why?

I had a look at the DA a few weeks back, and I’ve managed to dig these links up from my history – don’t know how long the links will remain active though so if you have a vested interest I suggest you save the files.

http://203.9.249.2/e-registers/pubnote/pdf/PLAN-200915029-GEN_ARRANGEMENT-1-01.pdf
http://203.9.249.2/e-registers/pubnote/pdf/PLAN-200915029-GEN_ARRANGEMENT-2-01.pdf
http://203.9.249.2/e-registers/pubnote/pdf/PLAN-200915029-GEN_ARRANGEMENT-3-01.pdf
then follow the number sequence up to 20… ie;
http://203.9.249.2/e-registers/pubnote/pdf/PLAN-200915029-GEN_ARRANGEMENT-20-01.pdf

The DA
An index
(I’m not seeing any bridges mentioned at Parks Way!)
Scope of works 1
Scope of works 2
GDE Stage 2 prelim. sketch plans – report

An extra $20 million. That’s the additional over what it would have cost to do it right straight up, as revealed to an Estimates hearing. And that, as Kramer has pointed, is if the costs don’t blow out (bets anyone?).

So what could we have done witn $20m?

Mr Stanhope is saying that “we simply didn’t have the money then.”

But that is not how gov’t capital expenditure works. Governments borrow to fund major works then pay it off – often over the period of the project’s useful life. So if they were borrowing for the half job, it’s no biggie to borrow for the whole deal. It is a Balance Sheet item, not a P&L item.

Mr Stanhope has also said that they’d try to minimise traffic impacts of the works. As I said in the CT article, I’m not sure if it’s the beginning of the end, or the beginning of it all over again. How do you minimise something that is already at a slow jogging pace every morning? You have to avoid morning peaks altogether, and run weekend and evening work – all of which will hit the bottom line even further.

Then transport minister Hargreaves should have listened to people, and when he didn’t, Stanhope should have listened. It seems common sense has got to whack people around with a very big shovel to get a hearing in this town…

All of that said…I’m glad to see the error acknowledged (even if it was only the heat of an election campaign that brought about the enlightenment) and the campaign promise being delivered on.

When I moved up here in 2007 they were working on Glenloch. They didn’t finish that long ago. Now they’re at it again.

We’re extending our house. We spent an extra 25% over what we really should have to put on some extra space so we didn’t have to extend again once the kids got a bit older. We know they’ll need the space.

The Gubmint was sitting on nice surplusses, with a nearly billion dollar war chest at the time, why couldn’t they be smart about it then? They knew it was needed, and it wouldn’t have been as painful to the bottom line as our supercharged extension is to us. Now Glenloch is going to be screwed again for another 2 years. Glad I don’t use it except to get to Bunnings.

PigDog: The report on the radio this morning said that the first step is adding another bridge in Glenloch Interchange so I guess the media release is just worded badly.

I sometimes wonder if the problem isn’t the roads but the drivers on it and their unwillingness to work together to ensure everyone gets to where they need to go safely.

Instead, there’s an attitude of “Get out of my way.. don’t you even dare think about cutting in front of me! This is MY ROAD!!!”

aronde said :

I’d love to see a map of how the Glenloch interchange will look when this is all done as that is where the problems really are at the moment. I can not find anything though searching the ACT Govt sites. Anyone come across it?

Here are a number of maps dealing with the GDE and the Glenloch interchange.

They probably are out of date by now, though.

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/move/roads/construction_and_maintenance/construction_projects/gungahlin_drive_extension/plans/maps#road_contruction_&_related_works

My reading of the media release is that they are duplicating about 3km’s from Belconnen Way to the Glenloch interchange – but are they fixing the main issue (in my eyes), which is the interchange itself?

“The ACT Government is investing $16.1 million to duplicate the GDE from Belconnen Way to the Glenloch interchange, as part of the $85 million GDE Stage 2 works…Work on this first section of the duplication will commence in two weeks and be completed in mid 2011.” An advisor for Mr Stanhope typed.

The Interchange is the bottleneck and you can have a thousand lanes either side, but it will still be a bottleneck until you fix the interchange itself, will they be fixing it? I imagine they are, but maybe the media release is poorly worded? I.e. Duplicating the GDE: It is four lanes between Belconnen Way and the Interchange – will it be eight?

And of course no one considers the impact of more traffic arriving in Woden or Civic or Belconnen all at the same time……

And do you know what causes most delays on the GDE – people not keeping a proper lookout and pranging – then every other man and woman slowing down to rubberneck – even though the vehicles are moved onto the median strip out of the way. What ails them?

I’d love to see a map of how the Glenloch interchange will look when this is all done as that is where the problems really are at the moment. I can not find anything though searching the ACT Govt sites. Anyone come across it?

Br1anL said :

So I am confused….. to quote JS “

The ACT Government is investing $16.1 million to duplicate the GDE from Belconnen Way to the Glenloch interchange, as part of the $85 million GDE Stage 2 works,” Mr Stanhope said.

Isnt that stretch already duplicated following the first screwup of the GDE.

Are we paying for it again?

Pretty sure he means the cost of duplicating the bridge over Belconnen Way….. one hopes…..and the corresponding work required.

So I am confused….. to quote JS “

The ACT Government is investing $16.1 million to duplicate the GDE from Belconnen Way to the Glenloch interchange, as part of the $85 million GDE Stage 2 works,” Mr Stanhope said.

Isnt that stretch already duplicated following the first screwup of the GDE.

Are we paying for it again?

The first bit of works is actually duplication (including a new bridge) at Glenloch Interchange.

roccon said :

More lanes on the GDE north of Belconnen Way may not actually help.

True. I think the problem is Glenloch interchange, not the GDE.

Make Bindubi (sp?) Street and Coulter Drive both into dual carriage ways too!

This government can sure waste money. Should have been built in one go years ago. Also, more lanes are required through the Glenloch and to the Cotter road intersection on the Tuggers Parkway, another lane needs to be added eastbound from the GDE into the City.

More lanes on the GDE north of Belconnen Way may not actually help.

In fairness, those timeframes are pretty much unchanged from the “four years from now” they promised at last year’s election.

Of course, schedules and reality are two things that rarely match up…