'Go to work tax' Public Servants rage against paid parking [WITH POLL]

spinact said :

Tetranitrate said :

Hate to say it but I for one would definitely walk from Russell to Barton if it meant getting out of paying for parking. At least for the sort of fees they’re looking at. Probably not for $4-6 a day though.

And that is exactly why they’re doing the entire area and not just the Triangle.

And so they should. Public servants do not have any entitlement to free parking. The expectation in just about every other city in the world is that you pay for the privilege of parking close to your workplace. Or you make alternative travel arrangements … or find a job that suits your needs better. Suck it up, fatcats.

Tetranitrate said :

Hate to say it but I for one would definitely walk from Russell to Barton if it meant getting out of paying for parking. At least for the sort of fees they’re looking at. Probably not for $4-6 a day though.

And that is exactly why they’re doing the entire area and not just the Triangle.

CanberraMum said :

I know I’ve missed most of the current argument, but here is my short two cents!!
I fully understand pay-parking is a legitimate concept to force drivers into using public transport – that would be great if there was decent public transport….but I ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT ACCEPT the decision that paid parking will also be introduced at Russell Offices, because according to the NCA studies, if we don’t put it at Russell – then staff from the parliamentary triangle will park at Russell and then still work in Barton…WHAT A CROCK!! Many of the people working in the Parliamentary triangle who do travel by car tend to have to travel by car…for convenience, family reasons, working hours reasons(early mornings, late nights) travel during the day reasons etc….these people will get lumped with paying for their parking, cause there isn’t another option!! They will argue to the Unions and they will get a parking allowances added to their next Agreements….(cost shift)
But for the Defence Staff at Russell it will cause a problem. Defence employees at ADFA, Campbell Park, Brindabella and Fairbairn have free parking, but if you work at Russell you now have to pay an extra $2,500??? per year..hmmm, just so those other public servants form Barton might use your car-parks…how does that work….and there isn’t another option at Russell…trust me, buses just don’t go there unless you are really lucky…so defence will end up having to pay somehow…(another cost shift)

p.s – the new ASIO building has parking for all of it’s employees….or does it??

Hate to say it but I for one would definitely walk from Russell to Barton if it meant getting out of paying for parking. At least for the sort of fees they’re looking at. Probably not for $4-6 a day though.

dkNigs said :

If the poor uni students at UC are going to have to pay for parking, why shouldn’t the well off public servants in the parliamentary triangle? .

got to pay for the Brumbies sponsorship somehow

And after the latest move On salary sacrificed cars they will have to pay full price for the cars they will have to pay to park. Tell me it is not a class war.

If the poor uni students at UC are going to have to pay for parking, why shouldn’t the well off public servants in the parliamentary triangle? It’s a sad world where people argue that public servants deserve free parking but university students who often make crap all are just expected to pay. At least ANU students are central in the city.

The aim behind the policy (the basis upon which it was approved) is to solve a supposed problem that tourists are having finding parking. However, there are only negligible tourist attractions/visits to Russell so the problem does not apply there. This is why paid parking at Russell should not (can not) be applied to that precinct under this policy.

Furthermore, Russell staff should not be made to pay for parking simply to contribute revenue towards solving problems that nearby locations are having with inadequate parking spaces. The Government should contain parking problems and their policies to where they apply. Charging citizens beyond the scope/mandate of the policy sounds illegal.

If that isn’t enough of a reason to ensure the annual parking burden of $2,600 is NOT applied to Russell staff, then as a minimum the Government should separate Russell from the tourist issue/policy agenda and consider the situation at Russell under its own Terms of Reference.

If the Government is truly interested in solving the supposed problem that tourists are having finding parking, then here’s a solution that I overheard someone suggesting the other day: Dedicate a small number of PAID parking spaces for tourists next to the attractions, but leave all the other spaces as free parking. Charge a premium for parking in those premium spots. The high price deters the commuters who will search for a free space and walk further. Allow genuine tourists to obtain a full/partial refund when they have their parking ticket(s) “validated” by the tourist attraction or at the Tourist Information Centre (Northbourne Ave). This idea is not new. It is not hard to implement. Movie theatres have this system for their patrons who pay for parking in a shopping centre. The tourists would get free/cheap parking close to attractions and commuters would not be slugged parking costs unnecessarily. If someone can afford to be a tourist and have a holiday at all, they can afford to pay a small price for parking at the attractions, just like we expect to pay parking when we are visiting Sydney.

Will the Government take up this simpler, cheaper solution even though it doesn’t raise millions of dollars each year in car parking revenue from working citizens? To help me decide who to vote for, I hope the parties have opposing views about this parking issue leading up to the election. The party that promises to abolish the policy will save me and thousands more staff $2,600 every year!

CanberraMum said :

I know I’ve missed most of the current argument, but here is my short two cents!!
I fully understand pay-parking is a legitimate concept to force drivers into using public transport – that would be great if there was decent public transport….but I ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT ACCEPT the decision that paid parking will also be introduced at Russell Offices, because according to the NCA studies, if we don’t put it at Russell – then staff from the parliamentary triangle will park at Russell and then still work in Barton…WHAT A CROCK!! Many of the people working in the Parliamentary triangle who do travel by car tend to have to travel by car…for convenience, family reasons, working hours reasons(early mornings, late nights) travel during the day reasons etc….these people will get lumped with paying for their parking, cause there isn’t another option!! They will argue to the Unions and they will get a parking allowances added to their next Agreements….(cost shift)
But for the Defence Staff at Russell it will cause a problem. Defence employees at ADFA, Campbell Park, Brindabella and Fairbairn have free parking, but if you work at Russell you now have to pay an extra $2,500??? per year..hmmm, just so those other public servants form Barton might use your car-parks…how does that work….and there isn’t another option at Russell…trust me, buses just don’t go there unless you are really lucky…so defence will end up having to pay somehow…(another cost shift)

p.s – the new ASIO building has parking for all of it’s employees….or does it??

Sorry, but people already park in russell and bus/walk to the city. And Brindabella/Fairbairn are paid for by the government so that workers their are not disadvantaged vs those in Russell. I imagine that will disappear when paid parking goes in at Russell. Seriously though, free parking is not some entitlement public servants have. Public servants are paid well above the average wage and yet they still fill like they should complain, when they have a pretty damn easy life already.

So tough luck and just either pay or catch a bus. Maybe the defence shuttle could swing past civic to make up for the lack of buses.

FYI, I work in the parliamentary triangle and I’m sick of having to drive around looking for a carpark. adding pay parking will make my life easier!

I know I’ve missed most of the current argument, but here is my short two cents!!
I fully understand pay-parking is a legitimate concept to force drivers into using public transport – that would be great if there was decent public transport….but I ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT ACCEPT the decision that paid parking will also be introduced at Russell Offices, because according to the NCA studies, if we don’t put it at Russell – then staff from the parliamentary triangle will park at Russell and then still work in Barton…WHAT A CROCK!! Many of the people working in the Parliamentary triangle who do travel by car tend to have to travel by car…for convenience, family reasons, working hours reasons(early mornings, late nights) travel during the day reasons etc….these people will get lumped with paying for their parking, cause there isn’t another option!! They will argue to the Unions and they will get a parking allowances added to their next Agreements….(cost shift)
But for the Defence Staff at Russell it will cause a problem. Defence employees at ADFA, Campbell Park, Brindabella and Fairbairn have free parking, but if you work at Russell you now have to pay an extra $2,500??? per year..hmmm, just so those other public servants form Barton might use your car-parks…how does that work….and there isn’t another option at Russell…trust me, buses just don’t go there unless you are really lucky…so defence will end up having to pay somehow…(another cost shift)

p.s – the new ASIO building has parking for all of it’s employees….or does it??

davo101 said :

devils_advocate said :

need to be co-located in the areas where actual decisions get taken.

So next door to News Corp’s headquarters then?

Well played, sir.

gooterz said :

Parking for public servants is the same bucket of money as their pay. Your literally pulling back and having more admin work to recover the money and having Pubes mess around with cars all day.

Spend $20 to make $10 then later have to increase wages by that same amount to attract the right people for the job.

I’m sure that the parking inspectors are free, the parking machines to install and maintenance is free. The men to empty the machines are free. The signage and communication are free, the auditors are free.

My guess that the same people who believe that charging tax payers to collect money back from pubes paid for solely by taxpayers is a good economical value are the same sorts of people who are think free energy devices are real.

Fair point – but the whole transaction costs issue could be largely avoided by (for example) letting people buy a 3 month, 6 month, 1 year transferrable parking pass that they could stick on their windscreens. People would object far less to a once-per-year financial hit of even $2000 (would this be tax-deductible? Would be far easier than collecting hundreds of receipts) compared with a constant, daily reminder of the cost and the associated headache of paying each day.

devils_advocate said :

need to be co-located in the areas where actual decisions get taken.

So next door to News Corp’s headquarters then?

Grail said :

Other options include departments moving their offices to Belconnen, Woden, Tuggeranong where there is cheaper parking.

Except, the departments under discusssion are for the most part the ‘actual’ departments, i.e. central agencies, and so need to be co-located in the areas where actual decisions get taken.

magiccar9 said :

OK so I’m going to resurrect this post due to the changes around this area this week.
Clap clap to whoever from the local/federal government has gone and installed varying time limits on street parking around Deakin, Forrest, and Barton.
This is quite possibly the most ill conceived idea I’ve seen recently. Now don’t get me wrong, I admit there is a large number of local workers hogging these parks during the day – some of whom park rather dangerously. But now residents of the areas can’t have visitors for more than 2 hours without making them kindly move their vehicles to avoid a ticket.
This sort of parking wasn’t covered under the Pay Parking scheme being introduced in July next year, instead these signs were silently erected overnight without any consultation or warning.
Workers are now being forced further into the smaller back streets – which remain free to park on – reducing them to little more than a single car width to satisfy both directions.

If the government want increased road crashes due to clogged streets in these suburbs congratulations. I think its about time that they pulled their heads out and actually addressed the pressing matters at hand, instead of trying to raise some revenue from the people keeping this economy afloat, just to satisfy their incredible debts.
Rant over.

Yeah i had a mate get a ticket for overstaying outside my place while he was visiting. 1 email and a copy of my rates notice got it cancelled, bit of a pain but not really going to happen all that much. Plus losing all the cars parked out the front has made it much safer using my street during the day for the kids coming from school and the elderly couple that had to get out of their car to check it was safe to enter the street. my guess is that they just keep increasing the range of these timed areas till the problem goes away.

I voted no for the paid parking though. Its stupidly costly system to run and most of the arguments seem to be “its not fair”. As a counter proposal why not make all current publicly run car parks “free”. You could calculate the total income from parking for the previous year then just divide the cost every new or renewed rego. Then we could all have “free”parking at equal cost to the whole community of drivers. There could still be timed parks so income from fines, while decreased, would still be available.

They are just preparing you for the light rail that will never be built because the TWU drives buses and the CFMEU builds roads. toot toot!

OK so I’m going to resurrect this post due to the changes around this area this week.
Clap clap to whoever from the local/federal government has gone and installed varying time limits on street parking around Deakin, Forrest, and Barton.
This is quite possibly the most ill conceived idea I’ve seen recently. Now don’t get me wrong, I admit there is a large number of local workers hogging these parks during the day – some of whom park rather dangerously. But now residents of the areas can’t have visitors for more than 2 hours without making them kindly move their vehicles to avoid a ticket.
This sort of parking wasn’t covered under the Pay Parking scheme being introduced in July next year, instead these signs were silently erected overnight without any consultation or warning.
Workers are now being forced further into the smaller back streets – which remain free to park on – reducing them to little more than a single car width to satisfy both directions.

If the government want increased road crashes due to clogged streets in these suburbs congratulations. I think its about time that they pulled their heads out and actually addressed the pressing matters at hand, instead of trying to raise some revenue from the people keeping this economy afloat, just to satisfy their incredible debts.
Rant over.

I want to know why there’s pay parking in places like Kingston.

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

Simple.

Install pay on exit system. Validate tickets for visitors who visit the attractions, allow the casual rate for workers.

And watch the visitor rate go through the roof as workers “visit” the attractions to get free parking…

Simple.

Install pay on exit system. Validate tickets for visitors who visit the attractions, allow the casual rate for workers.

With the Pay and Display system, such options can not be achieved.

Mysteryman said :

beardedclam said :

Mysteryman said :

chewy14 said :

Mysteryman said :

bd84 said :

The majority of us already fork out money each day to pay for parking and there’s no logical reason for workers in the triangle not to. The “lack of services” argument is a load of bullshit. Going shopping isn’t a service normally needed during the day, most people rarely visit a bank or post office these days and there’s no guarantee your bank will even have a branch near your work anyway.

Almost all of these services are now offered to some extent after business hours, or if not, do what other people do (even those in paid parking locations) and leave work early one day to attend to your business.

The argument against paid parking is no different to the one against paying for plastic bags where the only apparent argument against both is an apparent belief that “it’s my god given right to get it for free and I don’t want to pay”. Accept it and move on with your life.

You sound a lot like the “I have to so everyone else should have to” crowd. You don’t approach the issue logically.

The lack of services is a significant problem for many people who work in the parliamentary triangle. People working in Woden, or Belconnen, or the city for instance, have access to restaurants, cafes, shopping centres, government shopfronts, doctors, dentists, as well as a whole host of other services. For those who have cars, it usually takes longer than an entire lunch break to get to and from any of these services, and that’s before you even conduct your business. Those who use public transport have no hope of getting anywhere and back within a reasonable timeframe.

The fact you don’t foresee people needing to conduct business beyond banking or going to the post office shows you don’t understand the problem at all, as does your assertion that you can do these things “after hours”. Your argument boils down to “I have to so you should”.

Those that ‘have’ to conduct business during work hours should be happier that there will now be many more car parks in the triangle for them to utilise on the days they ‘have’ to drive.

The majority who will not have to conduct business daily, can take the advice of post 14.

Great. So now they can pay to park at work, spend 20 minutes driving to the places they need to get to, pay for parking again when they arrive there, and then spent another 20 minutes driving back. Meanwhile the people who work elsewhere have the luxury of being within walking distance of the services that take advantage of daily. That makes a lot of sense.

You also missed the point that it’s not necessarily “business” that needs to be conducted. Simple things like getting lunch can be a complete PITA in the Parliamentary triangle. But hey, don’t let that stop you from building a straw-man.

take lunch from home. Buying lunch is a priviledge , not a right. So is carparking. Could be worse….1st world problem

“First world problem” – the last resort when you don’t have a genuine foundation for an argument. Thanks for your well thought out and persuasive reasoning. This thread is richer for your contribution.

Fair enough. or its not really worth putting that much effort into.

But if its important to you, thats your opinion.

No need to have a go at people that have an opinion that differs to yours though.

Yes – there should be paid parking in the triangle but any surplus revenue should be used to fund, at least partly, free loop buses, in both directions. Good for tourism and would provide easy “ten minute or less” access to the city and to express bus routes.

So this free bus would be to help people park on the cheap side of the lake and get to their places of work in Civic then? I sure that’ll really help the parking shortage.

beardedclam said :

Mysteryman said :

chewy14 said :

Mysteryman said :

bd84 said :

The majority of us already fork out money each day to pay for parking and there’s no logical reason for workers in the triangle not to. The “lack of services” argument is a load of bullshit. Going shopping isn’t a service normally needed during the day, most people rarely visit a bank or post office these days and there’s no guarantee your bank will even have a branch near your work anyway.

Almost all of these services are now offered to some extent after business hours, or if not, do what other people do (even those in paid parking locations) and leave work early one day to attend to your business.

The argument against paid parking is no different to the one against paying for plastic bags where the only apparent argument against both is an apparent belief that “it’s my god given right to get it for free and I don’t want to pay”. Accept it and move on with your life.

You sound a lot like the “I have to so everyone else should have to” crowd. You don’t approach the issue logically.

The lack of services is a significant problem for many people who work in the parliamentary triangle. People working in Woden, or Belconnen, or the city for instance, have access to restaurants, cafes, shopping centres, government shopfronts, doctors, dentists, as well as a whole host of other services. For those who have cars, it usually takes longer than an entire lunch break to get to and from any of these services, and that’s before you even conduct your business. Those who use public transport have no hope of getting anywhere and back within a reasonable timeframe.

The fact you don’t foresee people needing to conduct business beyond banking or going to the post office shows you don’t understand the problem at all, as does your assertion that you can do these things “after hours”. Your argument boils down to “I have to so you should”.

Those that ‘have’ to conduct business during work hours should be happier that there will now be many more car parks in the triangle for them to utilise on the days they ‘have’ to drive.

The majority who will not have to conduct business daily, can take the advice of post 14.

Great. So now they can pay to park at work, spend 20 minutes driving to the places they need to get to, pay for parking again when they arrive there, and then spent another 20 minutes driving back. Meanwhile the people who work elsewhere have the luxury of being within walking distance of the services that take advantage of daily. That makes a lot of sense.

You also missed the point that it’s not necessarily “business” that needs to be conducted. Simple things like getting lunch can be a complete PITA in the Parliamentary triangle. But hey, don’t let that stop you from building a straw-man.

take lunch from home. Buying lunch is a priviledge , not a right. So is carparking. Could be worse….1st world problem

“First world problem” – the last resort when you don’t have a genuine foundation for an argument. Thanks for your well thought out and persuasive reasoning. This thread is richer for your contribution.

Mysteryman said :

chewy14 said :

Mysteryman said :

bd84 said :

The majority of us already fork out money each day to pay for parking and there’s no logical reason for workers in the triangle not to. The “lack of services” argument is a load of bullshit. Going shopping isn’t a service normally needed during the day, most people rarely visit a bank or post office these days and there’s no guarantee your bank will even have a branch near your work anyway.

Almost all of these services are now offered to some extent after business hours, or if not, do what other people do (even those in paid parking locations) and leave work early one day to attend to your business.

The argument against paid parking is no different to the one against paying for plastic bags where the only apparent argument against both is an apparent belief that “it’s my god given right to get it for free and I don’t want to pay”. Accept it and move on with your life.

You sound a lot like the “I have to so everyone else should have to” crowd. You don’t approach the issue logically.

The lack of services is a significant problem for many people who work in the parliamentary triangle. People working in Woden, or Belconnen, or the city for instance, have access to restaurants, cafes, shopping centres, government shopfronts, doctors, dentists, as well as a whole host of other services. For those who have cars, it usually takes longer than an entire lunch break to get to and from any of these services, and that’s before you even conduct your business. Those who use public transport have no hope of getting anywhere and back within a reasonable timeframe.

The fact you don’t foresee people needing to conduct business beyond banking or going to the post office shows you don’t understand the problem at all, as does your assertion that you can do these things “after hours”. Your argument boils down to “I have to so you should”.

Those that ‘have’ to conduct business during work hours should be happier that there will now be many more car parks in the triangle for them to utilise on the days they ‘have’ to drive.

The majority who will not have to conduct business daily, can take the advice of post 14.

Great. So now they can pay to park at work, spend 20 minutes driving to the places they need to get to, pay for parking again when they arrive there, and then spent another 20 minutes driving back. Meanwhile the people who work elsewhere have the luxury of being within walking distance of the services that take advantage of daily. That makes a lot of sense.

You also missed the point that it’s not necessarily “business” that needs to be conducted. Simple things like getting lunch can be a complete PITA in the Parliamentary triangle. But hey, don’t let that stop you from building a straw-man.

take lunch from home. Buying lunch is a priviledge , not a right. So is carparking. Could be worse….1st world problem

Mysteryman said :

beardedclam said :

1. Pay it
2. Bus it from home
3. Cycle
4. Carpool
5. Park n ride
6. Walk
7. Motorcycle

Buying a motorcycle won’t really help unless the government introduces a lot more free motorcycle parking in the triangle. Currently, there is next to none.

still at least 6 options left

switch said :

davo101 said :

I think you’ll find the actual situation is the reverse of this. Developer’s usually want to put in more car spaces than they are allowed under the design rules.

Could have fooled me.

Have to admit that my exposure to the process was in NSW, the ACT approach seems to be to set minimums.

Don’t like kit go work somewhere that provides free parking…

The majority of Government departments pay significantly higher than one located in the city so suck it up…

I love my free parking.. It’s called my driveway. Then I walk to a bus stop and get some daily exercise and fresh air..

Pork Hunt said :

On an extremely unrelated topic, why is Kingston the only town centre without free motorcycle parking?

Last time I looked, there was a free m/c parking area on Kennedy St, just here I think:

https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=kingston+a.c.t.&ll=-35.316635,149.140874&spn=0.003182,0.006872&client=safari&oe=UTF-8&hnear=Kingston+Australian+Capital+Territory&gl=au&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=-35.316567,149.140761&panoid=zUzG2vv03St3eTzf2Op_PQ&cbp=12,73.7,,0,23.32

It’s been a few months since I used it.

davo101 said :

I think you’ll find the actual situation is the reverse of this. Developer’s usually want to put in more car spaces than they are allowed under the design rules.

Could have fooled me.

gooterz said :

Increase the cost of working your going to have to increase pay too. If you don’t your going to end up with lousy staff and a poorly functioning system (much like we have now but worse).

So what you’re saying is we can judge the quality of the public servants housed in a building by inspecting the scale of parking fees on the outside?

gooterz said :

Charging public servants for parking where does the money go? back to paying public servants. You might as well give them a paycut, it’d be most cost effective as it wouldn’t have the overhead of admin to collect it.

No thanks. I could choose to modify my working arrangements and avoid paying for parking, so why should I be forced to pay for your parking?

gooterz said :

Its the same as public transport, why is it so expensive? If everyone is paying $10 a ride though tax what’s the point of spending $3 to collect a $4 fare?

Demand management and political expedience; it’s a lot easier to politically sell the idea of a bus service that charges a small fare than a bus service that’s free.

gooterz said :

The whole FBT is stupid, how many employers are going to design car spaces into their buildings now. They’re just going to do the bare minimum to get planning approval.

I think you’ll find the actual situation is the reverse of this. Developer’s usually want to put in more car spaces than they are allowed under the design rules.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Look at a country town in rural NSW. Nobody has to pay for parking. Why do major cities have it but not little villages? It’s called greed.

No it’s called demand management. You don’t need particularly sharp observation skills to detect that there may be more cars trying to park in the Triangle than there are car spaces.

Storm is a teacup, the whole thing.

“I need free parking so I can go out to lunch” doesn’t really cut it. Nor does making comparisons with other centres where there is paid parking. “I want free parking so I can go to Woden where other people have to pay for their parking”, kinda fails the logic test.

What does cut it, is that none of the alternatives allow people to drop kids at or collect them from school or child care. Of course this applies to anyone else with paid parking too.

Solution? Well, a partial solution would be for the ATO to allow travel to work costs to be a tax deduction. In fact, I can think of no logical argument against it. Yeah, people with big cars and big salaries will save more, but rich folk already know how to screw the ATO, and this wouldn’t make a huge difference.

Incidentally, people who get a free parking perk will now presumably have that taxed as a Fringe Benefit, as it now has a value it didn’t have before.

IP

bigred said :

Why is it that public servants don’t like paying their pay? That is what it is all about really, just another bit of freeloading being lost.

Its not like public servants get awesome pay.. (the ones that get reasonable will still have their perk personal car spaces)

Most public servants are public servants for the extras of being a PS.. Flex time to raise kids and … well this isn’t much left now is there.

Increase the cost of working your going to have to increase pay too. If you don’t your going to end up with lousy staff and a poorly functioning system (much like we have now but worse).

Charging public servants for parking where does the money go? back to paying public servants. You might as well give them a paycut, it’d be most cost effective as it wouldn’t have the overhead of admin to collect it.

Its the same as public transport, why is it so expensive? If everyone is paying $10 a ride though tax whats the point of spending $3 to collect a $4 fare?

Having everyone employed doesn’t mean that we’re more productive, its the whole broken window fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

The point that some people are close to shops is invalid, those who catch buses are also close to malls. Should there be a work tax because you have the option to go shopping during your lunchbreak?

The whole FBT is stupid, how many employers are going to design car spaces into their buildings now. They’re just going to do the bare minimum to get planning approval.

No wonder we’re so screwed as a country so many people are working just for the sake of it with no societal gain.

Its amazing that when the parking rates went up in Belconnen how many people started parking in all the side streets and yet all the actual ‘carparks’ in Belconnen were still mostly empty.

Why is it that public servants don’t like paying their pay? That is what it is all about really, just another bit of freeloading being lost.

gooterz said :

Parking for public servants is the same bucket of money as their pay. Your literally pulling back and having more admin work to recover the money and having Pubes mess around with cars all day.

Spend $20 to make $10 then later have to increase wages by that same amount to attract the right people for the job.

I’m sure that the parking inspectors are free, the parking machines to install and maintenance is free. The men to empty the machines are free. The signage and communication are free, the auditors are free.

My guess that the same people who believe that charging tax payers to collect money back from pubes paid for solely by taxpayers is a good economical value are the same sorts of people who are think free energy devices are real.

Translation?

bigred said :

I still cannot figure out what is wrong with paying for what you use. I pay for electricity and gas etc because otherwise I would live in the dark and have cold showers. I pay my telephone bill so I can talk to people. When I catch the bus, I tap my card and it deducts money from my account. So why shouldn’t I pay to store my unused car? It is called paying your way. Now who said “there is no such thing as a free lunch?

OK, you’d have no problem with paying to park your car in your own driveway then? How about paying rent for your seat in front of your computer at work, or putting 30c into a jar every time you take a sip out of the tap at work, or paying for your toilet break @ $2 per minute? Look at a country town in rural NSW. Nobody has to pay for parking. Why do major cities have it but not little villages? It’s called greed. If people NEED something, the ones providing it can charge what they want and make a large amount of dollars out of it. If people don’t need it, nobody tries to put a price on it. Capitalism, short and simple. Anything that the government thinks it can make more money from it will do so. Eventually, as it has been said before, we will pay for oxygen. We already pay for CO2 now, it won’t be long.

On an extremely unrelated topic, why is Kingston the only town centre without free motorcycle parking?

bigred said :

I still cannot figure out what is wrong with paying for what you use. I pay for electricity and gas etc because otherwise I would live in the dark and have cold showers. I pay my telephone bill so I can talk to people. When I catch the bus, I tap my card and it deducts money from my account. So why shouldn’t I pay to store my unused car? It is called paying your way. Now who said “there is no such thing as a free lunch?

The larger issue IMO is that the price as been set higher than the price of parking in the town centers, excluding part of civic.
http://www.rego.act.gov.au/assets/PDFs/Parking%20Meter%20and%20Ticket%20Machine%20Fees.pdf

It’s entirely necessary to introduce pay parking to try and free up more space for tourists and other visitors, but the fees the NCA are setting are ridiculous given the lack of amenities and poor state of public transport to the area. The other town centers are all public transport hubs, have shopping malls and a great variety of other services compared to relatively little in the parliamentary triangle, yet the price is being set higher in the triangle!

This is basically being charged on a ‘because we can’ basis to gouge money from the large numbers of people who have little choice but to drive (eg: parents of young children and those for whom public transport a particularly shitty option – 20 min drive vs 70 min bus ride, ect).
They could charge $5 a day and get the desired effect as far as freeing up parking goes, it wouldn’t actually take a particularly large % reduction in the number of people driving to have a big effect on the general availability of parking.

It doesn’t help that they actually reduced the availability of parking around Questacon and the national library not that long ago either.

Parking for public servants is the same bucket of money as their pay. Your literally pulling back and having more admin work to recover the money and having Pubes mess around with cars all day.

Spend $20 to make $10 then later have to increase wages by that same amount to attract the right people for the job.

I’m sure that the parking inspectors are free, the parking machines to install and maintenance is free. The men to empty the machines are free. The signage and communication are free, the auditors are free.

My guess that the same people who believe that charging tax payers to collect money back from pubes paid for solely by taxpayers is a good economical value are the same sorts of people who are think free energy devices are real.

I still cannot figure out what is wrong with paying for what you use. I pay for electricity and gas etc because otherwise I would live in the dark and have cold showers. I pay my telephone bill so I can talk to people. When I catch the bus, I tap my card and it deducts money from my account. So why shouldn’t I pay to store my unused car? It is called paying your way. Now who said “there is no such thing as a free lunch?

Mysteryman said :

chewy14 said :

Mysteryman said :

bd84 said :

The majority of us already fork out money each day to pay for parking and there’s no logical reason for workers in the triangle not to. The “lack of services” argument is a load of bullshit. Going shopping isn’t a service normally needed during the day, most people rarely visit a bank or post office these days and there’s no guarantee your bank will even have a branch near your work anyway.

Almost all of these services are now offered to some extent after business hours, or if not, do what other people do (even those in paid parking locations) and leave work early one day to attend to your business.

The argument against paid parking is no different to the one against paying for plastic bags where the only apparent argument against both is an apparent belief that “it’s my god given right to get it for free and I don’t want to pay”. Accept it and move on with your life.

You sound a lot like the “I have to so everyone else should have to” crowd. You don’t approach the issue logically.

The lack of services is a significant problem for many people who work in the parliamentary triangle. People working in Woden, or Belconnen, or the city for instance, have access to restaurants, cafes, shopping centres, government shopfronts, doctors, dentists, as well as a whole host of other services. For those who have cars, it usually takes longer than an entire lunch break to get to and from any of these services, and that’s before you even conduct your business. Those who use public transport have no hope of getting anywhere and back within a reasonable timeframe.

The fact you don’t foresee people needing to conduct business beyond banking or going to the post office shows you don’t understand the problem at all, as does your assertion that you can do these things “after hours”. Your argument boils down to “I have to so you should”.

Those that ‘have’ to conduct business during work hours should be happier that there will now be many more car parks in the triangle for them to utilise on the days they ‘have’ to drive.

The majority who will not have to conduct business daily, can take the advice of post 14.

Great. So now they can pay to park at work, spend 20 minutes driving to the places they need to get to, pay for parking again when they arrive there, and then spent another 20 minutes driving back. Meanwhile the people who work elsewhere have the luxury of being within walking distance of the services that take advantage of daily. That makes a lot of sense.

You also missed the point that it’s not necessarily “business” that needs to be conducted. Simple things like getting lunch can be a complete PITA in the Parliamentary triangle. But hey, don’t let that stop you from building a straw-man.

Lunch?

Well they can do what the vast majority of other people who dont work near shops do – bring their own. Shocking thought I know.

wildturkeycanoe said :

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, Canberra’s public transport is a disgrace! over 1 and half hours to get from Mitchell to west Belconnen in the middle of the day and still requiring a 2km walk to get home. For $4.20 I’d prefer to drive as it’s cheaper and over 3 times as quick. Parking fees are just a lame rort for anyone who has to work in various locations through the day. How can you do your job when you have to work in Civic for example, starting at 9:30 when there are no places left to park in? This is with a work vehicle that won’t fit in underground or multistory parking? Then you get shifted to Woden, where all the 8 hour parking has been taken and you have to park over 2 blocks away from the job site, carry your ladder, tools and other equipment because the loading zones are all full. Tradies may have to pay up to $30 in a day for parking, so if the employer has a weekly reimbursement scheme, they are out of pocket up to $50-$100 every week. Would public servants put up with this? I think not, hence the backlash.
To all the naysayers, try taking 30kg of tools and equipment plus ladders on a bus, taxi, bicycle, motorbike, tram, train, plane, blimp, skywhale or any other form of transport you can imagine and not complain how hard it is!! Then try and get an extra bolt, nail, welding rod, copper bend, relay, PCI interface, flux converter……and your day has just got immensely better.
Tradespeople, service technicians and such have the worst time trying to get to a job on time let alone finding somewhere to park and then you have the audacity to post their parking misdemeanors on RA for Monday parking madness. Next time the PC shuts down mid-flight or the cappuccino machine delivers too much froth, don’t complain about parking but think of the guys and gals out there doing it even tougher than the PS.

You kind of miss the point that part of the reason that you can’t find a spot is because it’s free. Look up “Tragedy of the Commons”. You’d have more chance of getting a spot if there was some kind of cost associated with this parking you are missing out on. Not being able to get a spot doesn’t mean you can park like an arse – it doesn’t work that way, sorry.

Tell em to stop whinging. Uni students pay $500-700 a year for parking, ACT public servants and CBD workers have to pay too.

The only thing worse than the whinging public servants is the gutless MPs trying to argue against the pay parking, without arguing against the pay parking, by using that silly line about needing more ‘amenities’. If you want to argue against it, just argue against it. Parliamentary triangle is 5mins to amenities and has heaps of places to eat inside the zone.

I posted this jokingly in a previous thread about parking in the Triangle:

“Now I am going to have to roster someone every day to stand in the car park and send a bulk SMS to us all when the Parking Inspectors turn up, so we can rush down and pay the minimum amount until they leave.”

I posted it as a joke but since then I have spoken to a few other team leaders and that is exactly what they are planning to do. Some have even got managers approval to do so. One hour shifts, with a wi-fi laptop (so they can still be productive!). The smokers in the office are volunteering to do longer.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, Canberra’s public transport is a disgrace! over 1 and half hours to get from Mitchell to west Belconnen in the middle of the day and still requiring a 2km walk to get home. For $4.20 I’d prefer to drive as it’s cheaper and over 3 times as quick. Parking fees are just a lame rort for anyone who has to work in various locations through the day. How can you do your job when you have to work in Civic for example, starting at 9:30 when there are no places left to park in? This is with a work vehicle that won’t fit in underground or multistory parking? Then you get shifted to Woden, where all the 8 hour parking has been taken and you have to park over 2 blocks away from the job site, carry your ladder, tools and other equipment because the loading zones are all full. Tradies may have to pay up to $30 in a day for parking, so if the employer has a weekly reimbursement scheme, they are out of pocket up to $50-$100 every week. Would public servants put up with this? I think not, hence the backlash.
To all the naysayers, try taking 30kg of tools and equipment plus ladders on a bus, taxi, bicycle, motorbike, tram, train, plane, blimp, skywhale or any other form of transport you can imagine and not complain how hard it is!! Then try and get an extra bolt, nail, welding rod, copper bend, relay, PCI interface, flux converter……and your day has just got immensely better.
Tradespeople, service technicians and such have the worst time trying to get to a job on time let alone finding somewhere to park and then you have the audacity to post their parking misdemeanors on RA for Monday parking madness. Next time the PC shuts down mid-flight or the cappuccino machine delivers too much froth, don’t complain about parking but think of the guys and gals out there doing it even tougher than the PS.

chewy14 said :

Mysteryman said :

bd84 said :

The majority of us already fork out money each day to pay for parking and there’s no logical reason for workers in the triangle not to. The “lack of services” argument is a load of bullshit. Going shopping isn’t a service normally needed during the day, most people rarely visit a bank or post office these days and there’s no guarantee your bank will even have a branch near your work anyway.

Almost all of these services are now offered to some extent after business hours, or if not, do what other people do (even those in paid parking locations) and leave work early one day to attend to your business.

The argument against paid parking is no different to the one against paying for plastic bags where the only apparent argument against both is an apparent belief that “it’s my god given right to get it for free and I don’t want to pay”. Accept it and move on with your life.

You sound a lot like the “I have to so everyone else should have to” crowd. You don’t approach the issue logically.

The lack of services is a significant problem for many people who work in the parliamentary triangle. People working in Woden, or Belconnen, or the city for instance, have access to restaurants, cafes, shopping centres, government shopfronts, doctors, dentists, as well as a whole host of other services. For those who have cars, it usually takes longer than an entire lunch break to get to and from any of these services, and that’s before you even conduct your business. Those who use public transport have no hope of getting anywhere and back within a reasonable timeframe.

The fact you don’t foresee people needing to conduct business beyond banking or going to the post office shows you don’t understand the problem at all, as does your assertion that you can do these things “after hours”. Your argument boils down to “I have to so you should”.

Those that ‘have’ to conduct business during work hours should be happier that there will now be many more car parks in the triangle for them to utilise on the days they ‘have’ to drive.

The majority who will not have to conduct business daily, can take the advice of post 14.

Great. So now they can pay to park at work, spend 20 minutes driving to the places they need to get to, pay for parking again when they arrive there, and then spent another 20 minutes driving back. Meanwhile the people who work elsewhere have the luxury of being within walking distance of the services that take advantage of daily. That makes a lot of sense.

You also missed the point that it’s not necessarily “business” that needs to be conducted. Simple things like getting lunch can be a complete PITA in the Parliamentary triangle. But hey, don’t let that stop you from building a straw-man.

Mysteryman said :

bd84 said :

The majority of us already fork out money each day to pay for parking and there’s no logical reason for workers in the triangle not to. The “lack of services” argument is a load of bullshit. Going shopping isn’t a service normally needed during the day, most people rarely visit a bank or post office these days and there’s no guarantee your bank will even have a branch near your work anyway.

Almost all of these services are now offered to some extent after business hours, or if not, do what other people do (even those in paid parking locations) and leave work early one day to attend to your business.

The argument against paid parking is no different to the one against paying for plastic bags where the only apparent argument against both is an apparent belief that “it’s my god given right to get it for free and I don’t want to pay”. Accept it and move on with your life.

You sound a lot like the “I have to so everyone else should have to” crowd. You don’t approach the issue logically.

The lack of services is a significant problem for many people who work in the parliamentary triangle. People working in Woden, or Belconnen, or the city for instance, have access to restaurants, cafes, shopping centres, government shopfronts, doctors, dentists, as well as a whole host of other services. For those who have cars, it usually takes longer than an entire lunch break to get to and from any of these services, and that’s before you even conduct your business. Those who use public transport have no hope of getting anywhere and back within a reasonable timeframe.

The fact you don’t foresee people needing to conduct business beyond banking or going to the post office shows you don’t understand the problem at all, as does your assertion that you can do these things “after hours”. Your argument boils down to “I have to so you should”.

Those that ‘have’ to conduct business during work hours should be happier that there will now be many more car parks in the triangle for them to utilise on the days they ‘have’ to drive.

The majority who will not have to conduct business daily, can take the advice of post 14.

Mysteryman said :

bd84 said :

The majority of us already fork out money each day to pay for parking and there’s no logical reason for workers in the triangle not to. The “lack of services” argument is a load of bullshit. Going shopping isn’t a service normally needed during the day, most people rarely visit a bank or post office these days and there’s no guarantee your bank will even have a branch near your work anyway.

Almost all of these services are now offered to some extent after business hours, or if not, do what other people do (even those in paid parking locations) and leave work early one day to attend to your business.

The argument against paid parking is no different to the one against paying for plastic bags where the only apparent argument against both is an apparent belief that “it’s my god given right to get it for free and I don’t want to pay”. Accept it and move on with your life.

You sound a lot like the “I have to so everyone else should have to” crowd. You don’t approach the issue logically.

The lack of services is a significant problem for many people who work in the parliamentary triangle. People working in Woden, or Belconnen, or the city for instance, have access to restaurants, cafes, shopping centres, government shopfronts, doctors, dentists, as well as a whole host of other services. For those who have cars, it usually takes longer than an entire lunch break to get to and from any of these services, and that’s before you even conduct your business. Those who use public transport have no hope of getting anywhere and back within a reasonable timeframe.

The fact you don’t foresee people needing to conduct business beyond banking or going to the post office shows you don’t understand the problem at all, as does your assertion that you can do these things “after hours”. Your argument boils down to “I have to so you should”.

I should clarify something. When I said “those who have cars” I was referring to workers in the Parliamentary triangle. Not the people in the city centres.

beardedclam said :

1. Pay it
2. Bus it from home
3. Cycle
4. Carpool
5. Park n ride
6. Walk
7. Motorcycle

Buying a motorcycle won’t really help unless the government introduces a lot more free motorcycle parking in the triangle. Currently, there is next to none.

bd84 said :

The majority of us already fork out money each day to pay for parking and there’s no logical reason for workers in the triangle not to. The “lack of services” argument is a load of bullshit. Going shopping isn’t a service normally needed during the day, most people rarely visit a bank or post office these days and there’s no guarantee your bank will even have a branch near your work anyway.

Almost all of these services are now offered to some extent after business hours, or if not, do what other people do (even those in paid parking locations) and leave work early one day to attend to your business.

The argument against paid parking is no different to the one against paying for plastic bags where the only apparent argument against both is an apparent belief that “it’s my god given right to get it for free and I don’t want to pay”. Accept it and move on with your life.

You sound a lot like the “I have to so everyone else should have to” crowd. You don’t approach the issue logically.

The lack of services is a significant problem for many people who work in the parliamentary triangle. People working in Woden, or Belconnen, or the city for instance, have access to restaurants, cafes, shopping centres, government shopfronts, doctors, dentists, as well as a whole host of other services. For those who have cars, it usually takes longer than an entire lunch break to get to and from any of these services, and that’s before you even conduct your business. Those who use public transport have no hope of getting anywhere and back within a reasonable timeframe.

The fact you don’t foresee people needing to conduct business beyond banking or going to the post office shows you don’t understand the problem at all, as does your assertion that you can do these things “after hours”. Your argument boils down to “I have to so you should”.

Mickeyau said :

I don’t understand why a minority of Canberrans believe they are entitled to free parking within the Parliamentary triangle. If the rest of the Canberra workforce is expected to pay for parking then it should be expected that all Canberrans pay for parking.

While I am not against paid parking in the triangle, the view point “I have to therefore everyone else has to” is not reasonable or logical. You can’t understand why people would kick up a fuss about a significant extra cost in their lives?

From the Article:

“They say to deal with the extra cost and inconvenience they will have to make changes including buying a motorcycle, foregoing their morning coffee or quitting their job.”

So, to deal with the extra cost and inconvenience, some APS staff will create an extra cost and inconvenience ….. o_O

Parking spaces in the triangle need to be freed up so that people who HAVE to drive to work, for one reason or another, have a decent chance of finding a spot. I’m therefore in favour of paid parking.

p1 said :

I have felt progressively sadder and sadder as the cost of Woden parking has increased by about $1 per year over the last four or so years.

I’m loving it. Each year its gotten easier to get a park in Woden on days I drive.

1. Pay it
2. Bus it from home
3. Cycle
4. Carpool
5. Park n ride
6. Walk
7. Motorcycle

I don’t have a strong opinion but calling it a tax means you accept you’re currently receiving compensation for working in a slightly inconvenient location.

switch said :

Peter would know about dream worlds ending after last night.

I would have guessed it to have been much, much earlier in his parliamentary career.

Roundhead89 said :

“Your dream world is just about to end…”

Midnight Oil, 1989.

Peter would know about dream worlds ending after last night.

“Your dream world is just about to end…”

Midnight Oil, 1989.

MrBigEars said :

If you think the cost of housing in Canberra is a bit steep, wait till we all move to Karratha.

But think of all the money you’ll be saving with the free parking.

I hope they include Federation Mall in the pay parking plan, so tourists and visitors to Parliament House can get a park. At the moment, these parks are almost fully used by public servants, which negates the whole purpose of having public parking around Parliament House.

davo101 said :

Or Cairns, Townsville and Karratha.

If you think the cost of housing in Canberra is a bit steep, wait till we all move to Karratha.
http://www.realestate.com.au/rent/in-karratha+-+greater+region%2c+wa/list-1?activeSort=price-desc&source=refinements

Grail said :

Other options include departments moving their offices to Belconnen, Woden, Tuggeranong where there is cheaper parking.

Or Cairns, Townsville and Karratha.

It’s not hard to get a bus that will go past or through the triangle, so if you really can’t spare 11 dollars you should catch one. You big, whinging babies

The majority of us already fork out money each day to pay for parking and there’s no logical reason for workers in the triangle not to. The “lack of services” argument is a load of bullshit. Going shopping isn’t a service normally needed during the day, most people rarely visit a bank or post office these days and there’s no guarantee your bank will even have a branch near your work anyway.

Almost all of these services are now offered to some extent after business hours, or if not, do what other people do (even those in paid parking locations) and leave work early one day to attend to your business.

The argument against paid parking is no different to the one against paying for plastic bags where the only apparent argument against both is an apparent belief that “it’s my god given right to get it for free and I don’t want to pay”. Accept it and move on with your life.

Other options include departments moving their offices to Belconnen, Woden, Tuggeranong where there is cheaper parking.

I go out of my way to avoid paying parking – car pool, park in nearby suburbs and ride the pushy the last kms, ride the motorcycle, etc. Pretty much anything except the bus.

I feel their pain though. I have felt progressively sadder and sadder as the cost of Woden parking has increased by about $1 per year over the last four or so years. I imagine going straight from zero to $11 is pretty hard to swallow.

I don’t understand why a minority of Canberrans believe they are entitled to free parking within the Parliamentary triangle. If the rest of the Canberra workforce is expected to pay for parking then it should be expected that all Canberrans pay for parking. If those who work for a government department still believe that they are entitled to free parking then they should be paying fringe benefit taxes instead. Just because you work for a government department doesn’t mean you are entitled!!