1 April 2005

Goodberrys/Jigsaw and frozen Custard v. Ice Cream

| johnboy
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As a couple of owner/operators of the Goodberrys/Jigsaw group have been good enough to comment and clarify on the issue of their name change (and related product issues) I thought it worthwhile drawing further attention to their comments.

Particularly those of Cameron Walker here and here, and also Banvie here.

For what it’s worth I have done some research (*GASP* shurely not at RA???) and the addition of eggs would appear to be the salient difference between ice cream and frozen custard by any reasonable standard. Having done quite a few food science courses, the comments about the reduced air % allowing warmer temperatures (less headaches) sounds more than plausible.

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Watch out for the black ugy, he’s an alien.

Cameron, I’ve been to the stores twice now, and although there were hardly any other customers there, I didn’t mind being called out to pick up my concrete on both occasions.

As is the wait with any other fast food franchise (McD, KFC etc), there was a short delay in processing my order, and then I returned to the counter to pick it up, a perfectly acceptable method of delivery.

The idiot who thinks that’s an undesirable method of delivery aught to take a glimpse at the real world, where this is occuring on a daily basis.

I’d hazard to say that RIGHT NOW at KFC and McDonalds, at every plaza in Canberra, there is somebody waiting for their food, that’s what we in the real world call normal.

Anonymous (you know which one), get a life.

why do all the hot guys work at Erindale (Sam, Rory, the wog and the black ugy) you should share them around all the stores. You should also make them take their shirts off. My friend’s friend’s sister works at Jigsaw and she said that Rory has the best six pack and the hottest muscles you will ever see

Hi Rachel,

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, Erindale was sorry to see Sam go 🙁

Cheers.

his name was Sam – i went to the erindale store this arvo and he was there
you shouldn’t have l;et him quit!
he is really nice and friendly!

Cameron,
i went to the Woden store a few weeks ago and there was this really nice guy serving me. he was a bit short and had freckles (i think his name started with s?)
anyway, he was very helpful and you should give him a promotion

by the way, good luck with the name change thing

Gavin,

Jigsaw is indeed a franchise and if you are interested in becoming involved please contact me on cameron.walter@in2itive.com.au

Cheers.

i’m hoping that someone can help me. i was interested in trying to invest in a goodberrys store. but if they are no longer around. how do i find out more about jigsaw and is this a franchise.

You can’t please everyone – and some people are never satisfied – and we are not a restaurant (the McDonalds example is a good one – so is Subway, KFC, Hungry Jacks) – and if someone decides the quality of our core product (frozen custard) isn’t worth the percieved inconvenience of waiting until your order number, name, order content is called, then they are not a JIGSAW customer. That is their choice. Of course we will look to improve our service systems – and our custard product, and our coffee (we have already developed our own blends of coffee and other solutions in the existing stores), and everything else we do in the stores. Thanks to everybody for feedback.

Glad to hear it redfish!

The good news for you is that Melbourne is the next port of call for Jigsaw, so keep an eye out down there for us 🙂

For what its worth to you, Cameron, I live in Melbourne and make a point of dropping in every time I’m in the ACT, simply because your product is unique – to Melbournites at least! Took me a while to get a hang of the concrete idea, but its good fun and good value for the kids the 4 or 5 times a year that we’re up.

Cheers!

Where did it all go wrong?

My personal belief is that our former franchisor was trying to get too big too fast. With only four stores in operation the Head Office had enough full time staff to service 50 stores. Head Office was spending more money than it was receiving, and yes you may need to spend money in order to make it, but you need to get plenty of stores set up in order to fund the sort of stuff that our old franchisor was doing (such as $30,000 on a tiny logo on the Canberra Capitals shorts).

Our product and our model are workable, and our plan (as Jigsaw) is to do exactly what Goodberry’s was planning – only with a more solid platform to launch from.

a distant associate had a franchised food business that he closed due to it bordering on profitability.

the franchise fees payable monthly regardless of profitability were what made it unviable.

he was unable to change his business model as he was a franchisee.

So what was the problem with the American goodberry’s and the franchise roll-out plan? I found this link trolling the net one fine (and somewhat slow) day – http://www.apr.com.au/publish/article_386.shtml – where did it all go wrong?

Anon 1, thanks for that.
We try to accomodate where we can, especially if making changes only has positive effects… I’d be very reluctant to change the ordering system in order to placate the concerns of some people if our eventual solution alienated everyone that was happy with our existing system…

I guess that begs the question… do any of the people that are happy with the current arrangements feel that some of what we have discussed would be a poorer system?

Cameron,
you are far too accomodating! I don’t think you need to go to these lengths to amend the Jigsaw ordering practice (there’s nothing wrong with it in my mind) but hopefully these steps might go some way to placating that other ‘anonymous’ and his delicate eardrums!

Anon 1

Thank you for your kind words JoeyJoeJoe and Kerces for your comments.

The system in use at the ACT Government shopfront would certainly be suitable, it is in fact one of the models that we’re looking at.

As a short term solution to the “yelling at” problem, we will be installing a microphone that will allow us to read numbers out over a speaker system. Will allow us to inform you all that your order is ready without us “yelling at [you]” and without you having to strain to hear us.

I have a few things to say. Firstly, I have never had a problem with the way the shop formerly know as Goodberrys served customers.
Secondly, in response to the Anon who said, “How ever you do have tables for CUSTOMERS to sit at and eat the meals that they have purchased from you,” I say that McDonalds also have tables for customers who have bought meals from them to sit and eat at. Does this make them a restaurant? I think not.
And lastly, about number-flashy systems (as they appear to be called), in the ACT government shopfronts they have a kind of system that cycles through a few numbers at a time, so they can serve multiple customers at once. Now I have never had any experience of using any kind of number-flashy system and have no idea of cost, but if this is what people think is a good way of service, then there does appear to be systems that might do what would be needed.
But I will say again that I’ve never had a problem witht he way the current service system works.
K

Let me very clear – the Goodberry’s system (ie the stores) did not go out of business. The FRANCHISOR went out of business, a direct result of mismanagement of the business as a franchise, not a result of a poor system within the stores.

“Why can’t you simply take them to the table???” Delivering to tables wouldn’t really be a problem during quiet times – in fact, more often than not we do take orders out to a table if they’re on of only a few people in the store. But during the busy times when the line is out the door, our focus is on getting as many people served as quickly as possible, so people aren’t waiting three years to get their concrete. Delivering to tables during this time would either mean reassigning a staff member to deliver to tables (which would lead to longer waiting times as there’d be one less staff member making product), or it would mean adding another staff member to the shift – something that would severely impact our wage bill and would likely result in us being forced to put the prices up again.
As I said earlier, this is not something we are prepared to do. It seems to me that the vast majority are content with our current system (that’s a belief I hold not simply because of this topic, but because of frequent positive feedback we receive in the store). If the overwhelming majority tell us that we need to take orders to tables, well then we’d obviously need to look at the way we run our business.
I would say we simply need to agree to disagree.

With regards to the coffee, we have identified that there are some staff members who could do with some more confidence on the coffee machine. We are doing out utmost to ensure that every coffee that we serve is exactly the way the customer wants it – if anyone receives a coffee that is anything resembling unsatisfactory, please DO NOT HESITATE to let us know. It will help us identify staff who take shortcuts and compromise the quality of our product.
As for the brand, we were bound by our old franchisor to use our existing brand but that is no longer the case. We are currently in a process of determining the most suitable brand for our purposes and will likely change brands within the next few months.

Cameron,

Good luck with the new branding, I hope it’s a success for you. I don’t consider Goodberry’s/Jigsaw a restaurant, and would rather the price point stay where it is than having to rise to be able to pay for wait staff. I’ve always found the current system workable, apart from the odd straining to hear a number called.

Cheers!

Bonfire, YOU ARE OBSESSED WITH MUNG BEAN!!! I wonder why?

/the name of the adoption centre that re-unites people is also called JIGSAW

You have your anons crossed BONFIRE. But hey why let that bother you having a little rant.

maybe you should open your own place selling non-egg mung bean smoothies and have a hairy armpitted recumbent cyclist hand deliver the vegan recycled sustainable health algae to your mates. oh hang on, those are the ones who tell you they no longer go to goodberries (but still do) just to avoid you and your rants.

Unfortunately, table service is not something that we can offer at this point. We are, quite simply, not a restaurant.
How ever you do have tables for CUSTOMERS to sit at and eat the meals that they have purchased from you. Why can’t you simply take them to the table???
I also would like to see sit down and take away utilise the original system that is still in place but never used. All that is required is a bit of management and control.
You must understand that the system that Goodberry’s had in place has meant that Goodberrys has gone out of business. Surely the management of Jigsaw have looked at that.
The Product is good you could train your people in coffee making and use a decent brand (Lavazza etc..
All you need to do is serve me…. But from your comments you don’t want to. You only want those that dont’ mind being yelled at.

Inability to hear the number being called out is certainly a problem (and a possible reason why Anonymous feels he is being yelled at).

My research seems to indicate that just as many people won’t look at a number machine than the number who won’t listen for it to be called out.

Obviously, the large benefit of staff not having to yell means that the number machine is preferable – we simply need to find one that will do what we need it to. Whilst we haven’t found one yet that will simply display what we type (or meet our needs some other way), they more than likely exist.

Unfortunately, table service is not something that we can offer at this point. We are, quite simply, not a restaurant.

I thought that order number flashy thingies could do any number? At clubs and places they are always out of order. Surely you can just type it in? If no-one comes up then u could yell (friendly like). There are also those things that buzz when your food is ready but that’s a bit elaborate and expensive, more so for places where people sit outside.
I could never hear my number called, esp if you are chatting. I think a few people here are stiring the pot though but then it’s hard to think of what else could be done. Number flashy things are godo but then you have to wait for people b’fore you can flash another up. That makes it slower. maybe if people had those ‘i just bought food in a pub’ table numbers on sticks and someone wandered out with an order and found them. If they have takeaway give them a ticket and call it out as they will prob be standing close to the counter waiting.
Something like that, It’s a toughie

I’m sorry that you don’t feel the current system we used is good service. I stand by my view that it is presently the best way to get the right product to the right person quickly, without making people stand in line and wait.

I also think it important to point out that by raising our voices so that a number may be heard over the noise in the store, we are certainly not yelling AT you.

It is obvious that your opinion on this matter will not change, and there is absolutely no problem with that – you are certainly entitled to your opinion and as a result have chosen not to visit any of our stores any more. If in the future you feel we might be able to better cater to your customer service needs, please feel free to return. Until then, we welcome your suggestions.

LOL Johnboy!!!

Well you’re coming across as what at best can be described as a “difficult” cutomer, but trust me the customer service people you encounter use much shorter words to describe you behind your back.

You do realise that, when you’re rude to food service people, they do horible things to your food, don’t you?

Idiot??? Get over it???? All because I ask for service.
Nice to know that personal insult is the way to accept that other’s have a different point of view to the service that they would like.
Hey Idiot your hot dog is ready mmmmm That looks like a place for you.

yelled at ?

i think they are yelling a number you idiot.

maybe your friends still go , without you so you dont jackboot over their custard experience.

egg allergys are a con, like most of these imaginary child allergys. if he really is allergic, give him a frozen mungbean.

the limb is about to fall off my experience??

I better go see a doctor!

Once again JB has shown his ignorance on a topic.
A call number system is not what was in place at Goodberry’s in Belconnen. After waiting a long time to put your order in you then sat down and waited for some person to yell your order out. Three strawberry concrete’s etc…
That limb is just about to fall off JB experience the bad and I mean bad service before you jump in mouth and all. Like I said We do not go there any more.

if I decide to sit down i don’t see why I can’t be given a table number and my order delivered to my table.

I’m going out on a limb here but I’m willing to bet large sums of money I’ve eaten in more and better restaurants than anyone currently going with friends for frozen custard in belconnen.

I can’t say I find anything offensive or problematic with a “call a number” service system.

I don’t know Cameron Walter but I think he’s gone to significant lengths to address your concerns here and i’m beginning to question the motivations of your criticism.

if it is genuine then I think you need to spend a bit more time out in the real world before sounding off so furiously.

but that’s just my 2c.

As for auto pagers? the seem to work OK in licensed clubs without getting confused as to the sequence in which orders are taken. but the wait for a laksa or a steak is longer than should be the case for a well laid out fast food facility.

No that i’m a big custard/ice cream consumer but I find the goodberrys/jigsaw way considerably kinder on customers than many systems I’ve seen in similar places.

Normally you have to stand and wait.

So this is what service has come down to. Get over it???? I don’t think so. if I decide to sit down i don’t see why I can’t be given a table number and my order delivered to my table. God knows we pay enough for it. As long as you have that attitude you won’t get me or my friends.
My friends used to go to Belco weekly till I convinced them that being yelled at wasn’t my idea of service. I suppose that you have enough people that like your system see comment anon 1.
You don’t need my money.

I don’t really think it’s a problem. If people are so fragile that they can’t bear to have someone call out a number… they need to get over themselves. It’s not a restaurant, Anon 2, so why would you expect restaurant service there?

Anon 1

Cameron Walter2:10 pm 01 Apr 05

Of course in the above example I did mean to say order #42 will be ready before order #41… Apologies.

Cameron Walter2:09 pm 01 Apr 05

Sorry, didn’t mean to ignore your comment Ralph, simply posting at the same time.

We’ve looked at various pager systems – unfortunately orders aren’t always ready sequentially – ie. Customer # 40 might order Nachos, three hot dogs and a Milkshake, whereas Customer #41 might order a small concrete. Order #41 will be ready before #42, which means we’d have to jump back and forth with the “pager” or “number machine”.

We are investigating various ways around this, and hopefully we can come up with something in the near future.

Cameron Walter2:06 pm 01 Apr 05

There are two Anon’s posting, my response above was directed at the “over rated over priced rubbish” comment.

I do however thank the other Anon and Bodhichitta for their feedback as well 🙂

You could use those pagers.

Cameron Walter2:00 pm 01 Apr 05

Thanks for the feedback Anon. As both Banvie and I have stated previously, we are more than happy to receive any and all feedback with regards to service within our stores. If you feel that our current order number system, or to use your terms “sit down and we will yell at you”, isn’t suitable, perhaps you have an alternative to suggest?

The last thing we want is for customers to feel as if they’re being yelled at, but our system is designed so that people are order to complete their order with speed, then sit down and relax until it is ready.

Me too (and I am the anon of the first two anon comments, btw, not the last one). I’ve always had very good service there. And the stuff is very nice. I’m very disappointed that the one in Dickson is closing down! But it always smelt like a hospital – like disinfectant. Still, the concretes were yummy!

Really Anon? because everytime I have been there Ive recieved great service. Prices are pretty reasonable and the stuff is much nicer than the crap ice creams you get around.

Goddberry’s or Jigsaw. Just over rated over priced rubbish. And what about the service. Simply sit down and we will yell at you. oh yeah real restaurant rules stuff.

David Heidelberg12:33 pm 01 Apr 05

Unfortunately the incidence of egg allergy, particularly in children, is at such a level, I believe that this product may be unsuitable for much of the target group.

Me, I love it!

Cameron Walter10:59 am 01 Apr 05

It’s more than likely that another Jigsaw brand will receive more recognition than ours to begin with, as the new brand for Goodberrys is less than one month old. Given time and the right marketing, I have little doubt that Jigsaw Creamery will receive the same recognition here in Canberra that Goodberrys enjoyed – irrespective of similar names in completely different industries.

Except that it means that when people hear ‘Jigsaw’ they will more likely think of the clothing store than they will think of the ice-creamery (sorry, custardery!), just like when people hear ‘McDonald’s’ they think of the restaurant not the kidswear store. My point was just that the brand name is already well known for something else.

Cameron Walter9:47 am 01 Apr 05

Thanks for your supporting research johnboy – John Hargreaves would be impressed 😉

As for the name confusion… I imagine that the relationship between us and Jigsaw Theatre Company or Jigsaw clothing will be much the same as the relationship between McDonald’s and McDonald’s Kidswear or VIP Home Services and VIP Pies: nonexistent.

what about Jigsaw the women’s clothing company?

How is this going to affect the Jigsaw Theatre Company? I saw someone wearing a Jigsaw company polo shirt the other day, and at the time I thought he was a stage tech, not a frozen food tech.

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