Government Housing in Canberra

As a Defence Member, I have lived in quite a few houses (all Defence married quarters, therefore rentals) all over Australia. At no stage have I ever had any issues with my neighbors.

Now that we have purchased our own house, for the first time I live beside a ‘problem family’. Yes, they are housing commission and they represent the 10% that give the 90% a bad name.

Let me make it clear from the get go, I don’t care what any of you think in regards to my opinion or attitude towards these people. They are filth and that is all there is to it. There are 3 derelict cars parked on the front yard along with half a dozen, sometimes more, running cars, yes sometimes there are ten cars parked on the front lawn…I mean dirt!

They had a cat, which naturally, they let wander around the neighborhood. This cat soon became several cats. I have managed to kill most of them. We had a new colorbond fence put in, it was up for less than a month and they started kicking the panels in, these panels will soon be replaced at their cost due to my complaints. They throw rubbish over the fence, I photograph it and put it in a file for a future submission to the Dept, it will knock the Ministers socks off, their yard is a tip, their weeds stretch into my property but I just poison them so hard it kills trees up to a mile away!

I’ll cut a long story short, I WILL see these pigs gone from my neighborhood through a campaign of continual complaints to the authority and the ability to engender an impression in my neighbors that I am a man not to be messed with. I can and will look after myself and mine, but I do pity decent hard working people who are not as capable or confidant as I am. It has got to the stage that now, they avoid me though I am always happy to have a chat with their kids, who aren’t to blame….except when they throw rocks on my garage and I give them an earful.

All I can say is, if you have these pigs next to you, do not rest until they are gone. I do not accept any sob story on how hard their lives are because no matter your background, you should be able to keep a clean house and respect your neighbors. There are decent, respectful people in need of these houses, so keep up the fight until you get these people next to you.

For all of you do-gooders, don’t comment until you’ve had the worst of the worst next to you and have had to deal with the never ending scenarios that these people can concoct.

ProudTenant said :

botto said :

Does anyone know the waiting time in Woden area for a house? The Housing is so secretive abt the waiting times and the only waiting list they show is very general.

They used to show waiting times by type of accommodation and area. Now not anymore.

It depends of your needs and which level of urgency you have been assessed at. There are three levels. Standard – wait is a few years. High needs, probably about 12-18 months or so, and Priority, which generally means you are homeless, a victim of domestic violence in desperate need to get out of your current accommodation, in a refuge, or some similar circumstances, and those wait times can be about 3-4 months. It also depends on if you are waiting on a 1, 2, 3 or 4 bedroom property, your eligibility, and of course the vacancy rates.

I know for a fact that Housing ACT are knocking down old govvies on very large blocks, and building two brand new houses on the one block in one street here and there – no more cluster housing like years gone by (ala Kambah West and other suburbs). The stimulus package from the federal government allowed for some of this development.

If only those whose children have moved out, but who continue to live in a large 3 bedroom house with a football field as the backyard, would move to more appropriate accommodation, then families with real needs could be housed earlier. Unfortunately Housing ACT have no move-on powers so to speak and the life tenure rule is bloody ridiculous. Even Deb Foskey only succumbed to public pressure, but only after she finally realised that her $150,000 pa salary was enough to buy her own place or rent privately.

I hope something comes through for you.

Most of the information is FALSE!

Levels are:

Standard service = ACT Government Special of No Service

High needs = MANY YEARS of assult and abuse from the Stanope Social Housing Test cases that include well over 200 police visits a year for less than 100 people. High needs cases are an excuse for DHCS Housing officers to coverup the neglect that led to being a person being disabled while the pub up the road gives a nice secret donation to Mr Stanhopes political party of choice to maintain the soap box of single sided hate.

Woman = Anything you need

White File = DHCS Housing is able to kill this person for the good it does society – Anyone with a white file will be moved to the place with the highest chance of death could occur from drunken assult or community funded group bashings. Anyone that complains against an ACT Housing officer or the system gets a white file.

you can get bad neighbours anywhere. you are steriotyping. Not all people living in public housing are bad just like not all people living in private accommidation are good. I have found that if you’re nice to people they will be nice to you. makes life easier. try it.

There are families who are still living in emergency units, 2 bedders with 3 kids, whilst little old ladies with a thousand birds live in a 3 bedroom house in the suburbs. The conditions for ACT Government housing have improved. They tore down burnie court, the melba flats, sold of a lot of the wall in mawson, and moved a lot of tenants out into the burbs, or oaks estate. If the ACT government cannot find you accommodation, here comes the emergency accommodation – aka ainslie village.

The tenure rule needs to go. there are people deserving of a chance at their own place that are renting privately, without a pot to p1ss in. There needs to be some way to help them.

I have seen enough private renters – people who could afford to live in these rentals smashing holes in the walls, urinating on the carpet, cleaning engine parts on the lounge room floor, overcooking something on the hotplate and leaving it to burn out the pot, making the hotplate unusable, and leaving in the dead of the night, minus their bond, but making sure they left with their possessions and in some cases, the fixtures in the bathroom, the curtains and anything that isn’t nailed down, not to mention the copper piping if it isn’t too obvious.

as for whether you get good neighbors, it doesn’t matter whether they are private or public housing. some people are just plain wrong no matter where they are living. A great tactic is for real estate agents to show the properties when they know these people won’t be at home, mid morning, or just after lunch.

It is a shame that public housing has become such a negative thing for many people. Let’s remember here people that the aim is to provide secure and comfortable housing at a reasonable price for people. Properties are not extravagant and they are not generally in the best serviced or most desirable areas in terms of location to amenities and facilities. That this is generally provided by the Government and under highly restricted access is again another factor contributing to its lack of desirability.

An alternative is to provide a policy environment where co-operative and housing corporation (owned collectively by tenants) is developed to enable people to have some security over their housing, not over-invest or over-commit to the cost and provide enough flexibility to allow people to move from place to place at the same time, if they need or want to. Just think about a different world operating in a different way.

botto said :

Does anyone know the waiting time in Woden area for a house? The Housing is so secretive abt the waiting times and the only waiting list they show is very general.

They used to show waiting times by type of accommodation and area. Now not anymore.

It depends of your needs and which level of urgency you have been assessed at. There are three levels. Standard – wait is a few years. High needs, probably about 12-18 months or so, and Priority, which generally means you are homeless, a victim of domestic violence in desperate need to get out of your current accommodation, in a refuge, or some similar circumstances, and those wait times can be about 3-4 months. It also depends on if you are waiting on a 1, 2, 3 or 4 bedroom property, your eligibility, and of course the vacancy rates.

I know for a fact that Housing ACT are knocking down old govvies on very large blocks, and building two brand new houses on the one block in one street here and there – no more cluster housing like years gone by (ala Kambah West and other suburbs). The stimulus package from the federal government allowed for some of this development.

If only those whose children have moved out, but who continue to live in a large 3 bedroom house with a football field as the backyard, would move to more appropriate accommodation, then families with real needs could be housed earlier. Unfortunately Housing ACT have no move-on powers so to speak and the life tenure rule is bloody ridiculous. Even Deb Foskey only succumbed to public pressure, but only after she finally realised that her $150,000 pa salary was enough to buy her own place or rent privately.

I hope something comes through for you.

Does anyone know the waiting time in Woden area for a house? The Housing is so secretive abt the waiting times and the only waiting list they show is very general.

They used to show waiting times by type of accommodation and area. Now not anymore.

ProudTenant said :

To the OP

I am proud to say I am an ACT Public Housing tenant, and will rattle off a list of positives for you to absorb in that limited and judgmental brain of yours. In no particular order …

I pay my rent.

… blah… (Edited – cut short)

I don’t judge people, usually. 😉

Perhaps you should read this twice … you may learn something about housing tenants that you did not know. The fact that housing are helping me at this point in my life is something I respect.

Oh, and finally, I do not agree with the “life tenure” rule within ACT Housing. Do your research and you’ll know what I’m talking about.

I wish your neighbours all the luck in the world.

Thanks for reading.

ProudTenant

“I exercise”

I trust that you can leave your tenancy without the theat of death by drunks who police never arrest because it isn’t their fault they are drunk

You forgot the best thing.. a total lack of responsibility by DHCS Housing and its Ministers, Pigs who limit the law, Political parties that accept secret donations, and morons with an idea. Nothing beats getting up to physical abuse from a person Centerlink and DHCS Housing keeps employed for drinking 247 while betting on lotto – one ticket away from the big win – esp when the same person responsibile for the abuse is given keys to common areas, and pays thugs with favour for helping keeping their ‘good social housing’ all nice and quiet, plays loud music, etc.

With membership in a community – Taking it in turns to telephone the complaints desk at DHCS – is akin to stalking with ill intent. Tenants in these memberships also attempt to hold ownership (even without legal right) of an area through the use of criminal act, threatenings, or physical assult.

Also helps when they can get $1k for getting a person with dependance problems arrested – then again I hear that DHCS can help groups get a mental health order placed on anyone disliked – just claim they are anti-social; always works for DHCS. Bonus being that your community rep can apply for funding grants only your select group would use while other tenants are put on a shortlist of people that should be moved out of the area.

I so need to move.. lol
U sound like a dream neighbour

lucym – another slip. Post 59 was directed at the OP not you. My bad. My apologies.

Not attacking you at all. My posts have been quite tame and to the point actually. If you feel like I’ve attacked you personally, then perhaps you should re-read. I fail to see any attacks on you from anyone.

Dear Proud Tenant

Just to correct the record, you have misquoted me in post #59. I haven’t said any of the texts that you have quoted me as saying. Perhaps you should go back and check. It sure feels like you are attacking me! (not that I am bothered). You have either made a mistake or are deliberately misquoting.

Regards

ProudTenant said :

that Pubic Housing tenants can also lead productive,

Freudian slip? haha
Bloody keyboard. 🙂

lucym, when you say “It certainly makes it hard when trying to move, there is no suburb to stay away from” …

… tell me, what exactly are you trying to stay from lucym???

My list of “I’s” was to demonstrate the fact that Pubic Housing tenants can also lead productive, civilised and financially independent lives. No special achievements, just normal day to day life.

I never attacked anyone.

Your post did nothing more than convince the reader that you prefer to live away from housing tenants. Fair enough – your choice – but don’t paint us all with the same brush – that’s all I ask. It’s a stigma we have to live with because people like you seem to think we are all a disgrace to society which is simply not the case. Not fair. Thanks and bye.

Dear Proud Tenant – I am not sad at all. I interpreted your post which started with

“I am proud to say I am an ACT Public Housing tenant, and will rattle off a list of positives for you to absorb in that limited and judgmental brain of yours. In no particular order …” + a very long list about lots of things designed to prove that you are a great neighbour and person

as an attack on someone asking a simple question and perhaps an attempt to seek recognition of what you have achieved. Sorry if I have misinterpreted and you were not seeking attention to your list as achievements.

I remain convinced that you have attacked someone for asking an innocent question.

regards

btw: you’ll be back. no-one ever really leaves.

Just like the Hotel California…

Yep – you can log out any time you want but you can never leave.

all_stars said :

Not playing the martyr here but I will not be posting further on these boards, clearly this is not a place for me. When a person cannot make comments and share opinions without being judged it’s obviously best to stay away.

You’re a newbie – you’ll get over it.

I think you made a bit of a mistake by posting a jdugemental first post. including the following

It certainly makes it hard when trying to move, there is no suburb to stay away from

was ill-advised.

btw: you’ll be back. no-one ever really leaves.

all_stars – forgive me for thinking that you thought all housing tenants were painted with the same brush, but that’s what I got from your original post.

As you will see from my response above, I use the word “I” a lot, so my post is more about me than you.

I am concerned that there are people out there who think all housing tenants are bad. It is simply not the case. I can only hope I’ve opened your eyes to this fact.

Just as you expressed your concerns, so did others. No need to run off.

Why cant these bad tennants be removed and more grateful and deserving people allowed to move in. After all this should be considered a privilege and not a right!

I agree 100 times over !!! Kick out all the Public Housing tennents who disrepect their house, it IS a privilege. I have a mate who has been on the Emergency housing list for about a year now, and she is still living on the couches of a variety of mates places with her 2 year old son.

I recall a letter being sent around that if you didn’t need the house anymore you would be moved out, I had an Aunt leave a 3 bedroom home she had been in for as long as I remember and moved into a 1 bedroom granny flat. I adore my elderly neighbour and wouldn’t want her to move but I don’t believe she needs to still live in the 3 bedroom home the government gives her now that she’s on her own.

As for the OP. My entire street used to be Government houses, slowly over the years people have bought their houses (including my parents) off the Government. The house on the corner has about 10 cars rotting away in the front yard and guess what HE OWNS HIS HOUSE, the people who party every Friday and Saturday night across the road, just bought that house and moved in 6 months ago.

Please dont stereotype people who live in Government houses to be bogans and derelects. Because they come in all forms of living in a Govvie house, to privately renting and owning their own home.

Wow! So even though I have a rotten neighbour who:

*likes to throw in our faces she is through housing and doesn’t have to worry about paying full rent
*is known for trying to seek male attention where she shouldn’t be — from my husband and the husbands/boyfriends of the other neighbours (I’d like to add she has NOT been successful)
*screams, yells and swears at her 3 year old and 6 old more often than not (it is really delightful to be woken up hearing a 3 year old being called a little Fkn C)
*has dumped her broken down car in the visitors parking section
*leaves all her windows and doors open when she is having unbelievably loud sex with her latest fling at all hours of the morning
*has no basic respect for the common wall our properties share
*has a front yard full of rubbish and garbage bins that are over flowing because they don’t wheel themselves out on bin night

I should suck it up and not be concerned that I may be moving only to have the same thing happen again.

I never said I was above people in housing commission, I never said people in housing commission were all rotten individuals, in fact until this post I never went into any detail about why I prefered to not live next to a Department of Housing property.

But hey thanks to the posters like lulu and Proud Tenant who felt it necessary to jump down my throat and tell me how wrong I am in thinking the way I do without knowing the full story. That’s not judgemental at all.

Interesting reaction considering my original post was only asking if it is an ACT initiative to scatter public housing across suburbs as where I come from it doesn’t happen that way. I had never intended to post a large chunk of the details here, I was simply asking a question.

*****
*****

Not playing the martyr here but I will not be posting further on these boards, clearly this is not a place for me. When a person cannot make comments and share opinions without being judged it’s obviously best to stay away.

Big thanks to everyone who actually understood what I was saying anyway.

Wow! So even though I have a rotten neighbour who:

*likes to throw in our faces she is through housing and doesn’t have to worry about paying full rent
*is known for trying to seek male attention where she shouldn’t be — from my husband and the husbands/boyfriends of the other neighbours (I’d like to add she has NOT been successful)
*screams, yells and swears at her 3 year old and 6 old more often than not (it is really delightful to be woken up hearing a 3 year old being called a little Fkn C)
*has dumped her broken down car in the visitors parking section
*leaves all her windows and doors open when she is having unbelievably loud sex with her latest fling at all hours of the morning
*has no basic respect for the common wall our properties share
*has a front yard full of rubbish and garbage bins that are over flowing because they don’t wheel themselves out on bin night

I should suck it up and not be concerned that I may be moving only to have the same thing happen again.

I never said I was above people in housing commission, I never said people in housing commission were all rotten individuals, in fact until this post I never went into any detail about why I prefered to not live next to a Department of Housing property.

But hey thanks to the posters like lulu and Proud Tenant who felt it necessary to jump down my throat and tell me how wrong I am in thinking the way I do without knowing the full story. That’s not judgemental at all.

Interesting reaction considering my original post was only asking if it is an ACT initiative to scatter public housing across suburbs as where I come from it doesn’t happen that way. I had never intended to post a large chunk of the details here, I was simply asking a question.

lucym said :

Congatulations on your successes proud tenant. However I find your post to someone asking a question quite arrogant and defensive. Not every public housing tenant has all of the achievements you list for yourself (just as not every private tenant has). I think you are being quite judgemental as well.

Sad that you think that keeping my house clean and paying my rent is a “success” and “achievement”. Inventing the wheel and formulating penicillin was an achievement, not keeping house and being a good tenant.

To the positive replies, thank you for understanding my point.

Congatulations on your successes proud tenant. However I find your post to someone asking a question quite arrogant and defensive. Not every public housing tenant has all of the achievements you list for yourself (just as not every private tenant has). I think you are being quite judgemental as well.

Good work ProudTenant!

The house next door to me is a guvvie house. In the eight years I have lived there I have had two different families – both fantastic. Their garden is better than mine too:)

Also people with mental health problems live in govie housing as there is no where these people can go at present, no until they had Qumby finished.

Kudos to you ProudTenant.

Hopefully the OP doesn’t move into your neighbourhood – they sound like the type of soulless, arrogant, judgemental, self-absorbed whiner who you most definitely wouldn’t want living next door to you.

Daspuck, what happened was that John Howard culled billions from the State and Terr housing grants when he first got in (and never really restored it), forcing them to only focus on tenants whose income was so low that they could only be on benefits.

This means that the ordinary ‘working poor’ families got eliminated from the State/Terr lists (and, to boot, the States also started including social security family payments in the income assessment, so some got eliminated off State lists simply because they were getting the (Cth) family payment – this happened to my family in NSW in the early 90s.

OK, so what used to be a mix of normal working ‘salt of the earth’ people, peppered with a few mentally ill and druggies in public housing, suddenly became a seething ghetto of social problems (a major problem where there was lots of public housing together – not so noticeable in Canberra unless you were on the list!).

AND, all those normal working people who would previously have been housed in public housing were forced into private rental. And people wonder why we now have such a problem with high rental demand and not enough low cost housing? It’s obvious. Solution – build MORE decent public housing, not less, and allow for a social mix (ie anyone who cannot afford to buy their own home) to get it to the same proportion that existed before these issues arose.

Oh yes, and to answer your question, I have it on good authority that Housing here in the ACT are avoiding the cluster housing situations of years gone by.

They are now buying houses in every suburb in every street to avoid a build-up of housing tenants.

Geez, they are even tearing down old govvies, and replacing them with brand new houses for public housing tenants. These new houses could be ANYWHERE!

Good luck to you.

To the OP

I am proud to say I am an ACT Public Housing tenant, and will rattle off a list of positives for you to absorb in that limited and judgmental brain of yours. In no particular order …

I pay my rent.
I don’t have 17 rusty old cars in my front yard.
I own a late model vehicle which I paid off myself.
I maintain my house inside and out – it’s probably cleaner than yours.
I don’t buy, sell, cultivate, grow or push drugs – ever.
I don’t drink alcohol – ever.
I don’t smoke cigarettes – ever.
I don’t gamble – ever.
I live on $24,000 pa – easily.
I work part-time in a job I love.
I am raising one child alone.
I am studying.
I am a former 20 year career public servant.
I am friendly to all my neighbours, and vice versa.
I don’t play loud music or have loads of friends revving car engines day or night.
I respect the law.
I pay my bills.
As at today, I have $1.10 to my name, and it doesn’t worry me in the slightest.
I have food in the cupboard, and bills are up to date.
I have life insurance, car insurance, contents insurance and health insurance.
I bake cookies for my elderly, quiet public housing tenant neighbours.
I weed the garden, and water it with the rain water tank I installed myself.
I maintain the property myself, and avoid calling housing maintenance at all costs.
I know how to use, fix and maintain a computer and pay my bills with it.
I am a victim of abuse, but don’t use that as an excuse.
I feed my child healthy food.
I am not overweight.
I exercise.
I have pets that are vaccinated, registered and fed.
I love life.
I know how to spell, read and write, oh, and the difference between “your” and “you’re”.
I have healthy relationships with my family and friends.
I would buy a house if I could afford it.
I would rent privately again if I could afford it.
I am intelligent, well-respected, kind and compassionate.
I don’t judge people, usually. 😉

Perhaps you should read this twice … you may learn something about housing tenants that you did not know. The fact that housing are helping me at this point in my life is something I respect.

Oh, and finally, I do not agree with the “life tenure” rule within ACT Housing. Do your research and you’ll know what I’m talking about.

I wish your neighbours all the luck in the world.

Thanks for reading.

ProudTenant

Interesting, as always this subject.

I liked your little calculation GregW. But in the real world, non junkies, non pensioners, non flat dwellers and employed people are paying the more ‘real’ $360 per week in rent for a dingy 3 bedroom home, more often than not. They have been enduring the market prices along with everyone else. They just feel a fair whack more secure. As they should.

There are already rental reduction schemes in place for those who cannot get housing through Centrelink, if they are eligible.

What else can you do really?

All well and good Greg, but you have overlooked one major thing. If you sell your housing stock and then invest the money you have two problems. Firstly the value of your investment will remain static, so clearly over time the value relative to the cost of living will go down. So how do you counter that. I mean using your figures the investment will earn $300p/w today, and because the base investment is the same it will still earn $300p/w in 10 or 20 years time.

Secondly where do you invest to give a return of 7%, without there being a risk that the orginal value of your investment will fall? It is a very large gamble indeed.

Even forgetting these two points, the idea is just plain daft. Why should the government be paying people to live in homes owned by individuals (thus making a profit off the government), when they can do it without somone profiting? I also think your argument about the oportunity cost of owning the property V’s selling them and investing is also a tad flawed to start with.

All this talk of social housings inefficiencies got me curious, so I went and took a look at the latest annual report from Housing NSW (Housing ACT is integrated with Community Services).

I’m no finance major, but if I am reading correctly, the department has:

130,000 properties
$688 million in rental income
$1,396 million in expenses
$28,830 million in assets

Thus, each tenant is paying an average of about $100 per week in rent. Each property costs the department approximately $200 per week to maintain (of which half is paid for by rental income and half from government grants).

Lets say the government decided to sell all of its public housing assets, and place the proceeds into an endowment fund at, say, 7% interest per year. This would generate revenues of $2,017 million per year (or about $300 per property per week).

Doesn’t this mean then that each public housing property is actually costing about $500 per week? Made up of $100 in private contributions and $400 in public contributions ($100 in government grants, and $300 in foregone interest)

Given the problems mentioned with the current housing system (long wait times, difficulty moving to more suitable locations, incorrectly sized housing), why not remove public housing and have Centrelink provide a separate state-funded rent assistance to those who would otherwise be eligible for public housing.

The tenant would then enter the private rental market with their $100 in rent, ~$60 in federal rent assistance (since they are now meeting the rent thresholds to be eligible), and a portion of the previous $400 public contribution.

If you gave each tenant say $200 in state funding, then the state could fund twice as many tenants, with each one having $360 per week to spend on housing. Alternatively, the state could support the same number of tenants and grow their endowment fund at slightly above the CPI.

I must have made a mistake somewhere, because at first glance like a much better solution all round.

My mother lives alone now in the house I grew up in as a kid; while her street itself does not have any Government housing, the adjacent street does. As a child I wouldn’t have known the difference between private and public housing, and used to happily play with the kids that lived behind the “back fence” and used to hang out at their house (which personally I thought at the time was cooler than my own!).

Unfortunately things have changed since then- the current tennants of that house obviously don’t love it as much as the previous tennants. They’ve practically destroying the house (I had to go over to talk with them and I saw a lot of smashed windows, ripped up carpet and a strong smell of urine and poop!)and have moved on to breaking into my mother’s house and yard several times, smashing windows, trashing rooms and stealing anything of worth.

Regardless of all the evidence, the police turned a blind eye; my mother’s neighbours in her street have had similar experiences from their own “back fence” tennants. Real estate agents are saying mum now lives in a “questionable neighbourhood” because of this:(

It’s sad now that this is now what the term “Government housing” represents to so many; because growing up, it really wasn’t an issue for us- people have moved in and out over the years with no issues or problems with one another. (I think at the time the only way I could tell which houses were public housing was by the lack of trees and rose bushes!)

Maybe the problem is not so much public housing as it is about providing no repercussions for trashing a place? If the police aren’t interested and the Government turn a blind eye, things happen- I mean look at what can happen when a teenager’s parents aren’t around (maybe we need designated areas for families with teenagers to keep out the “riff raff”)

my favorite memory of living in red hill was the notice board at the shops that had a datsun with “best offer” being offerned next to a BMW Z3 for about $50k.

luther_bendross said :

Most recipients of public housing, I’m sure, are honest people. It’s a case of the 10% giving the other 90% a bad name.

I always find this topic (along with many others!) to be very touchy but very much agree with luther_bendross. We just tend to make comment when the few who abuse the system do so. In my case i am surrounded by private housing, except for a row of 4 houses across the street…and unfortuantely there is rubbish, broken down cars, tonnes of kids and mongrel dogs in each house. Plus a visit from police and a major drug/weapon bust.

Yes, this can happen in private properties but it angers me because my husband and I worked extremely hard to save for a deposit for the house and work hard to pay the mortgage and maintain our property (unlike other people we know in our 20’s who just whinge about how difficult it is to buy a house yet have the latest designer clothes and cars! Now that’s a totally seperate argument!), and there are houses around us with government tennants who just don’t care because it is essentially not their house. It is very frustrating.

My only argument with government housing is that i thought it was for people in need. So when i see single poeple living in big family homes and won’t budge, i see houses being trashed, the latest and greatest cars parked out the front and foxtel dishes on roofs and it is government housing, it does make me mad. We don’t have foxtel, we have one car for the family and we live within our means so we can afford our mortgage and don’t have to rely on the government. I do know that this is only some, because i am fully aware that there are people who are really struggling, but again it’s very frustrating.

But, really, to back to the original point. Yes, i think it’s a good idea to mingle government housing instead of grouping it all together, we do not seem to have the same amount of incidents in suburbs like the ones mentioned above in Sydney etc. And i like it that way.

Should see the trash living in my street. A nice street with nice house’s that are kept neat & tidy. And then we have the tampon collector living in a shithole (her own house) paid for by her ex-husband. Then her lovely partner (currently in jail) who smashes the place up (including her) once or twice a week.
The moral of the story? it doesn’t matter if you have public housing next door, you can still end up with garbage living in the street.

Craig T

What are you looking for, a bite? Not all public housing tenants are like that, I for one have worked most of my life, even when I was married, and I can tell you I am pround of my girls, they have very good jobs, some people find themselves in certain positions that is no fault of their own, my girls have grown up better than most children who come from a family with both parents, they have problems with their children. Life is like a box of chocolates!

It’s not just an ACT thing that public housing properties are now spread amongst the community, it is now a fairly common practice amongst a lot of states and I believe NSW is one of them. The current policy is that no more than 10% of properties in a suburb should be public housing, if there is currently more than that amount Housing will not purchase another property there. You will however find there are still particular areas of Canberra where there are clumps of public housing properties, such as the complexes on Northbourne Ave and in the City/Reid as well as some other suburbs such as there’s still a cluster in Torrens.

Sussing out the neighbours is a standard part of looking for a place, public housing residents won’t be the only bad neighbours going around and I’m sure the vast majority of the some 11,000 properties are generally pretty good. If you really want to find a suburb with no public housing, O’Malley is the only suburb with a public housing stock of zero. You will need to fork out between $1000 and $2500 per week in rent though…

I think you need to pull your head in lulu: there is absolutely no denying that many people given cheap government housing are a lazy freeloading menace to society and the majority of the rest of us would prefer to avoid that.
Households consisting of a single mum and a rabble of uncontrolled feral children are a stereotype because they exist. Would you want to live next door to Mad Alex, of rooftop garbage pile fame opposite the Narrabundah shops?

I grew up in Narrabundah and bought my first house there – I’ve been surrounded by public housing reprobates all my life and although I’m used to it and as a socialist have no need for status symbols like an expensive (and nickable) car or a house full of expensive (and nickable) gear, I would never blame newcomers for staying away from the scumbags if what they want is a nice suburb full of quiet neighbours who will never even speak to them.

i haven’t had a chance to read through all of the comments, so apologies if i repeat.

as well as the government’s public housing scheme, there is also an affordable housing option, apparently as part of the government’s “affordable housing action plan”. run by a non-profit organisation. i, and my housemate, live in a beautiful complex, in a great suburb, close to our places of work. we have income requirements that make us a “low moderate” household… a great initiative, but there is such a long waiting list… certainly no risk of them letting us stay there.

we need more places like this, so long as the housing market is so unaffordable here in canberra. there’s no way i could afford to live in this location in such nice circumstances otherwise…

Was driving through Weetangera the other afternoon and my coworker noted there’s no Guvvies there – not sure how accurate that is as I’m not familiar with the suburb..

Though it IS a Belconnen suburb, so you’d want to avoid it anyway.

The Causeway, Charnwood, and pretty much all of Northbourne Avenue have bad reputations. But still, this is Canberra. Even our worst cesspits would rate very well against say Newcastle or Western Sydney’s housing commission estates.

all_stars said:

“…housing commission rentals are placed among normal full price paying individuals?
It certainly makes it hard when trying to move, there is no suburb to stay away from.”

All_ stars, I did reread the post and I maintain that it clearly states that people who are not “full price paying individuals” are peole “to stay away from”.

Having read this clear statement that I and my family are people “to stay away from”, I was naturally offended. Reasons why people want to stay away from families often include ineffective parenting, an unwillingness to work and support themselves and a lack of care for the propeties they occupy. Perhaps I’m wrong, perhaps there are other qualities you believe public tennants have that you want to stay away from. Whatever those qualities may be, it’s presumptive that you think I or anyone else has them simply because we’re in public housing.

What I do know for sure is that living in a suburb with a mix of private and public housing has allowed my children and I to not be judged by others on the basis of our address. Naturally, I prefer my neighbors not to judge me on the basis of who my landlord is either. I think that’s quite reasonable. I apologise if the tone of my earlier post was offensive to you. In my situation, it’s easy for me to feel defensive. Unfortunately many people think it is quite ok to make public assumptions about single parents, public housing tennants and many other statistically disadvantaged groups. I’m sure you can understand that as clearly you don’t like people to make assumptions about you either.

My neighbours are in public housing, and he (the kids are kids, so I’ll leave them out) is a scumbag. However, these two facts need not be bundled together, nor are they mutually exclusive. He doesn’t have a job therefore can’t afford market rental while supporting children on his own. Therefore public housing is a great solution to his problem and I fully support that. I can’t however, support all the drug addled freaks walking up and down my cul de sac with axes trying to get their next bag for free.

Most recipients of public housing, I’m sure, are honest people. It’s a case of the 10% giving the other 90% a bad name.

all_stars said :

I never said you were an ineffective mother, I never said you didn’t care for your home and I never said you should be in a ‘segregated ghetto’. I would ask you to please re-read what I actually wrote earlier. I find you putting words into my mouth rude, offensive & unconducive to the discussion.

So what is your issue with public housing then?

nazasaurus said :

As someone who used to live in a neat, tidy and moderately quiet complex where people were considerate of each other, I have personally seen the effects of a new govie housing tennant arriving. In this case a single mum and her children, moved into a tiny townhouse, with no space for the kids. Needless to say within months, there was a broken down car out the front, regular abusive shouting matches with boyfriends at all times of day, children running around the place at all hours, drinking swearing partying, burnouts through the communal driveway…. and it goes on and on.

I dont know what kind of bureaucrat approved this great fit. It has made life hellish for the rest of us. The police have attended on a number of occasions but nothing can be done. ACT housing does nothing. Any outcomes from investigations are ‘private and confidential’.

Why cant these bad tennants be removed and more grateful and deserving people allowed to move in. After all this should be considered a privilege and not a right!

My advice, do your research before you buy.

Sounds exactly like my current neighbour (and she is through housing, probably be the same if she wasn’t though). Seems to be something you can’t get away from down here. One minute there are nice people next door the next it’s like feral central.

I don’t blame you for asking about the neighbours when you’re looking – if I’d have known 5 years ago what I know now I would have asked as well.

Good luck, I think the only way to make sure of who the neighbours are is to knock on the door before you decide on the place and check them out personally.

lulu said :

My children and I have lived in a public housing property for six years in an otherwise unaffordable suburb in an otherwise unaffordable city. We’ve had good and bad neighbors in the private rental next door and good and bad neighbors in the public rental behind. I’m a caring and effective mother and a hard worker and I look after my house. I find your post very offensive. Apparently you think we belong in a segregated ghetto. I wouldn’t want you in my neighborhood. I hope you can’t afford it.

I never said you were an ineffective mother, I never said you didn’t care for your home and I never said you should be in a ‘segregated ghetto’. I would ask you to please re-read what I actually wrote earlier. I find you putting words into my mouth rude, offensive & unconducive to the discussion.

outdoormagoo said :

Actually the NSW government are doing the same thing to try and break the vicious cycle of poverty and crime that public housing suburbs cause.

A good reason for ending public housing, giving people houses causes crime and poverty. 😉

In my work I have to visit a number of govvy houses, flats and tenements, some are well maintained and respected, others are trashed. It seems that no matter how badly some people trash govvy houses, they are allowed to rtemain, and teh taxpayer picks up the bill.

“there is no suburb to stay away from”

No, but a lot of suburbs have a ‘better’ area and then a not so better area.

So move to a ‘better’ part of the suburb where the houses are all well kept & you are not able to tell if any of your neighbours are living in housing commision.

It would help if we knew your buying/renting budget so we could suggest particular suburbs that you could look at

Deserving tenants. Yup. Hmm….

People whose circumstances have improved are exactly the type of people that should be kept in affordable housing programs: they contribute to the social mix of a portfolio, pay higher rent (which subsidises other more needy tenants) and shouldn’t be made to move just because they’ve got a job. One of the most important elements in a child’s ontological security (sense of place in the world etc) is a stable education. Forcing people to move–and we are all aware of the vagaries of the private rental market and the difficulty of getting another house nearby–simply causes social disruption. Just because people in the private rental market have to deal with this very unfortunate situation doesn’t mean that we have to play lowest common denominator where we can easily avoid it. Contrary to popular belief it is having this mixed tenant population that fosters and creates a socially and economically sustainable social housing sector.

Regarding home ownership, I often wonder if people in Australia realise the extraordinary extent to which home owners here are given favourable tax treatment and other financial incentives. It beggars belief, and there is nothing even remotely comparable in other developed countries.

As far as affordable housing programs and their funding are concerned, this is a simple issue of what we, as a society, should be doing to respond to the catastrophic market failure of Australia’s housing system, and trying to make sure that not too many people are left behind. That many of these people will have issues other than their low income is a given. ‘Salt and peppering’ affordable housing reduces concentrations of disadvantage, and is precisely why (with a few notable exceptions in multi-unit developments) there are no obvious areas with severe social problems in the ACT.

Unfortunately the failure in Australia’s private rental and home ownership sectors is largely a result of populist policies which will take a long time–and very courageous governments–to undo.

Most real estate agents will know where the government housing is (having worked for one) – that’s if you can’t work it out by looking. They may not want to let you know as like you said it might mean they don’t make a sale.

We lived next door to a housing commission house when we first came to Canberra and eventually after a number of incidents called the department. At that time they took their responsibilities quite seriously and did seek to rectify the situation. Not sure if you can just call them up to enquire about individual houses though.

The ‘mix’ design in public housing (especially in the 60’s and 70’s) was introduced by the Federal Govt to encourage families to move to Canberra to grow the population. I understand that public housing was based on a ratio across the whole of (older) Canberra suburbs – including Red Hill, Yarralumla, Ainslie, Downer etc. The fact that people (with jobs) have remained in public housing is a remnant of the original concept and there are still families out there paying commercial rental rates for public housing.

The concept has evolved over time and is now based on need but the original concept of mixing public housing in with private remains. It has worked well compared to alternative models (such as in Sydney and regional NSW towns – examples cited above).

It does make it harder to judge your potential neighbours in Canberra, they can be equally crap no matter where you go! That’s equality for you!

As someone who used to live in a neat, tidy and moderately quiet complex where people were considerate of each other, I have personally seen the effects of a new govie housing tennant arriving. In this case a single mum and her children, moved into a tiny townhouse, with no space for the kids. Needless to say within months, there was a broken down car out the front, regular abusive shouting matches with boyfriends at all times of day, children running around the place at all hours, drinking swearing partying, burnouts through the communal driveway…. and it goes on and on.

I dont know what kind of bureaucrat approved this great fit. It has made life hellish for the rest of us. The police have attended on a number of occasions but nothing can be done. ACT housing does nothing. Any outcomes from investigations are ‘private and confidential’.

Why cant these bad tennants be removed and more grateful and deserving people allowed to move in. After all this should be considered a privilege and not a right!

My advice, do your research before you buy.

I grew up in a Canberra guvvie. Things have changed though and I must admit I wouldn’t want to live anywhere adjoining a couple of the large guvvie areas. They’re medium density, I think you could identify them without needing to be told. That said private rentals sometimes aren’t any better. One in our street went through a period of rubbish, noise, cars all over the street, police visits. I don’t think asking the real estate agents is very helpful, they do tend to feign ignorance when it suits them. And to a certain extent they really are limited in how much useful information they have. One thing to try is have a good look around potential places, and drive past a few times at different times of the day to get a feel for the area.

My children and I have lived in a public housing property for six years in an otherwise unaffordable suburb in an otherwise unaffordable city. We’ve had good and bad neighbors in the private rental next door and good and bad neighbors in the public rental behind. I’m a caring and effective mother and a hard worker and I look after my house. I find your post very offensive. Apparently you think we belong in a segregated ghetto. I wouldn’t want you in my neighborhood. I hope you can’t afford it.

One can’t judge behaviour by whether someone is in public housing or not. Many people I know in public housing are wonderful, quiet, law-abiding neighbours. And I’ve seen some renters act pretty crappily (should that be spelt with one ‘p’ or two??).

But yeah – the policy is designed to prevent ghettos and to allow someone to live their life without being pointed at by people in the street and being described as someone living in public housing.

It used to be the case that you could spot a Housing Trust house a mile away, mainly because they only had about five stock designs and tended to build four or five of the same design next to each other. As they no longer build their own houses but buy from (and sell to) the private market as needed, you can no longer tell which is a Housing Trust property.

Please do not think for one second I consider myself ‘above’ people who are living in Government Housing. I certainly did not intend to give that impression & I apologise for any offence I caused.

I do realise there are a multitude of circumstances for people needing public housing. Since moving to Canberra I have met friends who are using this service for reasons ranging from getting away from an abusive ex-partner to needing a roof over their heads as their farm is inoperable due to drought.

It has just been my experience in NSW – around Newcastle and Maitland – the public housing is grouped together.

Hence the reason for my question, is this just an ACT thing, obviously the ACT Government are thinking more progressively than where I come from.

As an addendum: A former MLA, Deb Foskey, caused some outrage, including on Riotact, when she remained in her public housing place in Yarralumla after being elected to the Assembly. I think the reaction at the time was way over the top, but the principles espoused by many of Deb’s critics were valid.

It’s called the “salt & pepper” approach, and seems to work fairly well, and certainly better than having large concentrations of public housing in any one area. I live in an inner Woden suburb, and around 10%-15% of all housing is public. There are a few problems, particularly when a close neighbour seems to forget to take his medication, but overall I think it actually works quite well.

The Housing Commission seems to be forsaking some inner areas, because the high property values means that they can sell existing stock and buy/build 2 or 3 or even 4 cheaper places in further out suburbs.

The only thing that bothers me is that long-term residents who no longer require housing assistance are allowed to stay put. If their circumstances have changed sufficiently, then I believe they should move on and more deserving tenants put in.

it seems to be a case of trial and error with the neighbours.

so, you want to pre-judge the neighbours, that they’ll somehow necessarily be bad, on the pretext that they are in public housing..? and you want us to take this seriously? as others have noted, the concept of not creating ghettos (which rulz) is probably very laudable and a deeply conservative policy, which you otherwise seem to adopt… so, the problem?

but avoid charnwood, btw, and lower narrabundah. oh, and ainslie, yarralumla and that rabble in forrest… maybe just try dakar. or johanessburg?

Are saying you don’t want to live around housing commissions and you need to find an area where ‘normal full price paying individuals’ live – Whats normal?

We had a place called Burnie Courts. Ask around, people will tell you what a success that was.

Why are you concerned about living near someone who is *shudder* living in governemnt housing?

I once did a job up in Macquarie Fields. The local council (who I was doing the job for)advised that I should get a security guard to mind my car whenever it was parked in a public place – Wierd stuff indeed. I dont think that we want to head down a path that will get us to a place like that. The current arrangements seem to work ok – although there will always be specific cases that don’t work out so well. Then again you don’t need to be a public housing tennant to be an a-hole of a neighbour either.

I used to live next to a public housing property… the tennants when I first moved in were an absolute nightmare, every week was like a new worst neighbour story straight from Today Tonight. After a few years they were evicted and a nice young couple with a baby moved in who were the exact opposite, dream neighbours.

So in my experience its the same as moving anywhere… you can have good neighbours and you can have bad neighbours, and its hard to tell until you actually live in a place a while.

sloppery said :

I think it’s to stop really bad areas forming. I’ved lived in NSW public housing, and the areas where you have streets and streets of it get to be really bad neighbourhoods. Having the public housing spread around seesm to prevent this happening.

It may prevent this from happening, but on the other side of the coin, it now makes it so one family can make a whole street hell.

It happens a lot, members of the street afraid to go out at night, not wanting to look outside if they hear a noise.

There is no real way to deal with it if you ask me. Places like Stuart Flats, Illawarra Court, Kanagara Court, Gowrie Court and the ones that are on Melrose drive are also good in there way, but prime real estate is being given to people who don’t really respect what they have been given.

A good way to see if a street is alright, if there is a house with a car parked at the doorway, with at least 2 dead cars out the front, stay the f&ck away from that street. Only unless it is a really long street, like Heagney Crescent or Bugden Avenue, I swear if you put those to streets end to end you’d be able to drive to China.

Actually the NSW government are doing the same thing to try and break the vicious cycle of poverty and crime that public housing suburbs cause.

They have already razed Minto to the ground, and are planning a similar fate for Macquarie Fields, Plumpton, St Marys and parts of Penrith. They will be re[placed with integrated suburbs with Public housing alongside private housing.

I personally agree with this approach. I know two families that lived in Minto for the last 20-odd years and are now in new ‘govvie’ houses in Minto. The main difference is that they now have something to look forward to. The parents adn older children have either got jobs or are looking desperately adn they want to make soimething of themselves. Thier new neighbours are middle class and had no idea it was government housing. One of the neighbours even helped them with jobs adn they are mentoring them to get them back on track.

And FYI, they never wanted to go into government housing and be unemployed. They all actually worked together (along with my mum) and 20-odd years ago the company they all worked for went bust. After struggling to find another job and losing thier houses, they wound up in public housing and once there couldn’t get out. Once you are in a public housing estate it is a downward spiral adn it can be impossible to get out. Fortunately my family were lucky and even though we were in public housing we managed to keep our heads up and escape.

Places like Minto and St Marys just cause depression adn breed trouble. Look at the Ghettos of Detroit or the Tenements of Scotland.

Ghetto’s Rulz.

I think it’s to stop really bad areas forming. I’ved lived in NSW public housing, and the areas where you have streets and streets of it get to be really bad neighbourhoods. Having the public housing spread around seesm to prevent this happening.

It’s a conscious attempt to exclude social elitists from our community. You know, the kind of people who won’t move into a place if there’s a poor family living next door.