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In pursuit of a thief

By rossau 15 October 2009 79

This is one photograph from CCTV of an unidentified male passing my wife’s Mastercard at Isabella Plains IGA following the card’s theft earlier that day, Tuesday 29 September 2009, from our car in Kambah. Anyone seen him?

We’d like to expedite recovery rather than replacing her passport, our baby’s birth certificate and our marriage certificate, and to recover our other stuff both valuable and that which we value.

Likely we’re not the only place he’s hit.

FYI.
The bank readily passed to us the attempted transaction information but declined to assist further because the transaction failed and there was merely an attempted fraud. The police indicated that they do not pursue CCTV footage, that in cases of fraud a bank would provide any CCTV images to them. Isabella Plains is close so …

My wife and I sought and obtained footage being at the exact time and with the exact amount of the attempted fraudulent transaction. This would not have been sought except by ourselves upon our own volition. Isabella Plains IGA were very helpful and these images have been passed to the AFP though I’ve heard nothing back from the AFP since.

Please look at the remaining images:

What’s Your opinion?


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In pursuit of a thief
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rossau 11:02 pm 25 Dec 09

I was informed yesterday by the AFP that they have found this man but that the link to my wife’s card was flimsy.
I explained that the link was definitely not flimsy, that the bank had provided details including location, time and amount of a declined transaction on my wife’s card. At the location, at that time a transaction for the exact amount was attempted by this man.
Suddenly the AFP story becomes that the identification was not -as said seconds before- a certain match.
To whom do I appeal that the case is done for them and ought be prosecuted?

Pommy bastard 2:48 pm 21 Oct 09

dvaey said :

Pommy bastard said :

The scaredy cats who are worrying about this person’s “rights” are the reason that we have such a screwed up justice system, where accused “rights” take precedence over the victims…

If this guy was convicted, sure publish his photo everywhere, but last I checked in Australia (as with your native Pommy-land), people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Just because someone is a ‘victim’ having been denied some right (in this case the right to safety of posessions), it doesnt give them the right to deny other people their rights.

.

It would seem that some here would deny the Rossau, as the victim of a theft, the right to use the reasonably hard evidence that he has, for fear of infringing the “rights” of the person he accuses.

Accuse and be damned Rossau, don’t let the fears of others, (which seems to consist of the usual mad PC nonsense,) disuade you if you feel you have a case, and are prepared to take the lumps if you are wrong.

If more of us were prepared to stand up and demand justice, and face down the “rights” and “PC” lobby, then we may get back on track to getting a bit of civility in society.

PBO 1:57 pm 21 Oct 09

What i mean is that the breakdown of a charge can in turn make it harder to get a conviction. I believe that it can sometimes make evidence inadmissable.

Jim Jones 2:27 pm 20 Oct 09

PBO said :

Skidbladnir said :

Smack,

1) You still need to prove intent re: financial advantage, all we have is a still photo.
Mindread as you will.

2) There are nine other parts to “Attempt”, including ‘intent and knowledge’, and ‘more than merely a preparatory action’ (ie: preparing to commit a crime is not a crime).

But who are we to stand in the way of an angry & potentially defamatory mob?

This is why it is so hard to get a conviction in the ACT.

What, because you need to present evidence?

PBO 1:22 pm 20 Oct 09

Skidbladnir said :

Smack,

1) You still need to prove intent re: financial advantage, all we have is a still photo.
Mindread as you will.

2) There are nine other parts to “Attempt”, including ‘intent and knowledge’, and ‘more than merely a preparatory action’ (ie: preparing to commit a crime is not a crime).

But who are we to stand in the way of an angry & potentially defamatory mob?

This is why it is so hard to get a conviction in the ACT.

Alancia 3:40 pm 18 Oct 09

I agree with posting pictures and asking people to help you identify the person. If this person had nothing to hide surely he would be contacting you himself to help out. Due process, sure, but you are not necessarily trying to pervert the course of justice by trying to find the guy. In fact, you kinda need to find him in order to give him that ‘fair trial’ he is entitled to….

rossau 12:34 am 18 Oct 09

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses whether be they supportive, chastising or balancing in the discussion, I am happy for them all.
Of course I didn’t know exactly what to do with the information at my disposal but I chose this path I am now on and having considered your comments will vary the course just a tad.
I am not entirely sure the supermarket intended me to keep or use the footage. As circumstances had it I undertook the initial investigation and became the intermediary having obtained a copy of the footage that I passed to police. The police with whom this course was discussed did not suggest it as improper.
My wife -tired with baby- left a single small zipped eco-shopping bag in the car tucked almost invisibly behind a seat after a late night’s return from Sydney: that she neglected to remove it when unpacking the car is our mistake. The bag contained various items, those documents mentioned and also items of value. From the glove-box, my electric shaver and a torch. Of course we’d like the stuff back but I’m not holding my breath. Catch a thief perhaps?
I do hope that we can either be supportive of the supermarket whether or not there is a perception of error.
Please contact the police if you see this man. AFP Incident No. P769745.

My specific responses and thanks:
pptvb – I will remove the photo of the registers
caf – the police declined to pursue enquiries without CCTV from the bank. The police were very happy to accept the footage once I had found it. Then nothing ….
dvaey – Yes, please contact the police if you see this man.
Tooks – I have made numerous calls to the AFP contact officers and am yet to receive one response. That was one reason for my posting here.
Skidbladnir – the proof is the exactly matching details -amount and time with card in hand- between the bank and the supermarket for the declined transaction. Vigilantism? I think you could better describe just as action upon evidentiary proof. I must hope you can find me a crime to match (thank-you ‘smack’ #59).
barking toad #68 – hahahaha, excellent!

TheManWithTheGoldenPeeness 9:14 pm 17 Oct 09

C’mon guys, look at that mug, he’s guilty as hell. Either he’s just about to make a stolen credit card purchase, or just farted…

Woody Mann-Caruso 10:09 am 17 Oct 09

Innocent until proven guilty is a burden for the courts, not citizens. I can offer an opinion that somebody accused of a crime is innocent or guilty, and there’s pretty much bugger all any of you can do about it. Or shall we go arrest everybody and anybody who dared utter aloud that they reckoned Lindy Chamberlain done it?

He looks like a big boy. I’m sure that if he wants to go hit up the poster for tarnishing his character, he can do it all on his lonesome without you all bleating about it.

Thumper 9:58 pm 16 Oct 09

Maybe the bloke could help police with their enquiries?

bd84 9:08 pm 16 Oct 09

Jim Jones said :

ahappychappy said :

Here, we’ve got what could be visual proof that this man is attemping to break/breaking the law.

It could be a picture of absolutely anyone at all.

What ‘proof’ of a crime is there?

It forms part of the truth, it’s a picture of someone attempting to use a stolen credit card. It can be proven by the date/time of the image of this person and the time of the attempted transaction. I don’t think rossau is attempting to lay all evidence before you to ensure a guilty verdict is given in the RiotACT court..

barking toad 5:31 pm 16 Oct 09

We seem to have a lot of hippie civil rights bush lawyers posting here.

If the bloke’s offended I’m sure he address it to rossau.

In my mind he’s guilty of everything for wearing sunglasses indoors and is therefore probably gay

Jim Jones 3:31 pm 16 Oct 09

ahappychappy said :

Here, we’ve got what could be visual proof that this man is attemping to break/breaking the law.

It could be a picture of absolutely anyone at all.

What ‘proof’ of a crime is there?

dalryk 3:21 pm 16 Oct 09

I don’t see this image as being an infringement of the guy’s rights, nor any attempt to curtail any presumption of innocence.

The OP has simply said:
1. someone stole my credit card
2. someone tried to use it at IGA
3. this is the photo taken at the same time the card was used
4. it is more than likely the man in the photo is in possession of the card
5. the OP would like his card back
6. finding the man in the photo would very likely be of assistance in finding the card

No defamations, no charges laid, no criminal investigations compromised, the guy just wants his stuff back and this guy probably would be of assistance. Let’s call him a ‘person of interest’ for the civil rights activist brigade…

Skidbladnir 3:00 pm 16 Oct 09

Smack,

1) You still need to prove intent re: financial advantage, all we have is a still photo.
Mindread as you will.

2) There are nine other parts to “Attempt”, including ‘intent and knowledge’, and ‘more than merely a preparatory action’ (ie: preparing to commit a crime is not a crime).

But who are we to stand in the way of an angry & potentially defamatory mob?

p1 2:59 pm 16 Oct 09

Every single item in the TV news now has the words “allegedly”, “suspected”, “accused” etc in it to avoid exactly what everyone is arguing about not. So much so that often (lazy) news reports put the word in the wrong part of a sentence rendering it meaningless, referring to some factual event are “allegedly”.

ahappychappy 2:44 pm 16 Oct 09

Skidbladnir said :

Again, you seem to think there’s no need for any kind of investigation, charges, trial, or findingof guilt, before you join with an emotional lowest-common-denominator on RiotACT demanding amateur-administered mob “justice”, based purely on the accusation of a stranger .

Refer to my posts again. This is a public forum – We’ve all seen worse accusations from many people (including yourself) through the posts here on this public forum.

Here, we’ve got what could be visual proof that this man is attemping to break/breaking the law. Yet instead of saying, “Wow, that sucks. I hope you get your things back.” you throw it back in the OP’s face, when they DIDN’T say they wished to persecute/prosecute the offender, they were merely trying to obtain their property and this was their only lead. “Let’s all defend this man (when we have less or no knowledge of the situation compared to the OP) as he is unjustly being suspected of a crime, and in doing-so, let’s barrage them with quotes and prove our intelligence!” Your arrogance is hardly hidden.

And we wonder why RiotACT struggles to get new frequent posting visitors…

Jim Jones 2:40 pm 16 Oct 09

smack said :

Skid, I would suggest that you not correct. I would argue that he could be charged with attempt to obtaining financial advantage by deception.

Of course he *could* be charged.

After he was charged, his guilt would need to be proved.

After that point, someone could post about it and everyone could complain that the sentence wasn’t long enough, as per usual.

The point is: he *has not* been charged. All that has happened is some unverified ‘evidence’ has been presented to the public, many of whom have decided that kneejerk vigilantism and foaming at the mouth is preferable to the presumption of innocence.

Skidbladnir 2:29 pm 16 Oct 09

Caf, I moved off dealing with Rossau long ago (noting that he hadn’t posted a comment in his own thread), and onto the people who were all for abusing the AFP\bank\man pictured above for their perceived misgivings, and crying about how a man who’s only proven action has been letting his photo be taken in the IGA Isabella Plains “MUST BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE!!!!”

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