Injecting hope into our prisons....WHAT THE ?

Why should the taxpayer be funding /encouraging illegal behavior in a place where criminals are supposed to be learning to live in a law abiding way?? It is contradictory, to say the least. It’s like giving a repeat drink drive offender a race track of his own so he won’t harm others. It’s like giving a serial rapist a blow up doll. It’s like sitting a murderer in front of a PC and letting him play violent role playing war games. Counterproductive and totally wrong.
If these inmates are going to use the illegal drugs with the same needles and catch diseases because of it, it’s their own fault. Clean needles should only be given to those that need them, such as diabetics. If the one’s who managed somehow to smuggle a syringe into jail want a clean needle…smuggle another one in the same way they got the first one if they’re that worried.
The bottom line is, they shouldn’t be doing drugs in the first place. Human rights are to protect us from inhumane treatment, not for enhancing the prison experience or saving someone from themselves.

Tooks @31 said “Do the inmates have access to scissors, ball point pens, tooth brushes and screw drivers.

I don’t know what’s available to them. It would depend what part of the prison they’re in.” Well according to Ms Gallagher (CT 5 Jan) ‘Cabinet has to make that decision, but that’s what I’ll be arguing. From this data it’s clear there is some element of drug-taking. Needles and needle-type instruments that can be made are there.” I read into this that if they are able to manufacture needles and needle-type instruments in AMC – then what else can be manufactured presumably in secret??? Like it has been said over and over again, they are not there to be nurtured in their bad habits but rather to pay for their crimes and rehabilitated back into society as good citizens!! Maybe it should be renamed to AMC TAFE and let some of us in so we can complete some of the training/courses provided and we could all learn new skills!

Comment by miz comment #28………..grow up! How much is it going to cost and maintain said room? The drugs are illegal. Anytime drugs are found on a prisoner, add an extra three months to their sentence. Drug implements? Another month.

A lot of ill-informed comment here, even by people who claim to know.

There have been no REPORTED instances of syringes and needles being used as weapons in prisons. Emphasis on the word “reported”. There were over 200 recorded uses of syringes as weapons in armed robberies in the latest national statistics – those offenders get sent to prison. Once imprisoned, will they suddenly forget how well this weapon achieved the victim’s compliance?

Prisoners are NOT tested for blood borne viruses on admission to prison – this is voluntary.

Much injecting is of “diverted” prescription drugs, such as opiate painkillers, or benzodiazepines. They cannot be kept out of the prison because they are prescribed within the prison.

Prisoners have fairly free access to all kinds of sharp things, or things that can be sharpened. Attend court one day, and count how few have beards or long hair.

The hysteria around syringes and needles is why they make an incredibly good weapon for holding up a service station. The same effect wouldn’t be achieved by pointing a bloodied sharpened toothbrush at the attendant, yet the risk is pretty similar.

The Human Rights Act is blamed for a lot of things, usually inaccurately – there are visitors who HAVE been banned for extended periods, so quoting instances where it hasn’t happened simply shows that authorities are inconsistent. That’s nothing to do with the HRA. Why they are not also prosecuted and convicted is a question for the AFP and DPP.

These are just a few examples, viewing the issue from both sides.

MHW

I reckon they should let the needle exchange happen, then when someone get’s a clean needle, that person should be put in segregation as they have an illicit substance in the gaol.

When they are in a dry cell they should be watched and their cell should be pulled apart looking for the illicit substance.

Sounds like a good idea of finding out who is using…

BUT it is no good for the guards. All you people saying “Ohh it will be good for the health system…” It wont. These people have Hep C already, it will give them weapons to use against the Authorities whose duty of care is to keep them safe.

Why are the guards letting drugs in?

Why is the Human Rights Act letting drugs in, contact visit’s, relaxed searches, too touchy feely. The prison is being run like a day care centre because Mr Stanhope feels that rehabilitation should be a trip to a retirement centre as opposed to a gaol.

Let these people live in a box for 14 hours a day and out for 2, let them eat enough to keep them from starving, give them enough to keep them occupied so they don’t want to fight, but be tough enough on them that they do not want to re-commit any crimes…

Lets hope that clean needles also cure the disease of Rovepatitis. Symptoms include overuse of unfunny catchphrases from bad tv shows.

To Tooks.

The irony is that some prisoners get onto heroin because it goes through the system quickly & is therefore hard to detect in urine tests whereas marijuana can be picked up weeks after being used.

Geoffrey Pearce, a Sydney prison officer, was stabbed with a blood-filled needle in 1990 and died of aids nine years later. So these attacks do happen. But that was in a jail (Long Bay) in which there meant to be neither needles nor drugs.

Drugs, and needles, are clearly being used in AMC, too. Surely a needle exchange can only be a good thing, as it potentially allows officers to monitor which inmates use them, and to ensure that as many needles are collected as distributed (ie. to ensure that needles aren’t kept as weapons, or to be shared with others).

I can’t understand why those forumites who are arguing against an exchange think that making needles available equates to condoning drug use. There’s no reason why the prison can’t make needles available but also increase its efforts to prevent drugs from entering the jail.

Perhaps the officers who are protesting against an exchange should spend more time examining those among their ranks who are probably bringing drugs into the jail.

I heard clean needles cure all strains of Hepatitis, HIV, and eliminate the need to practice safe sex.

Providing them with clean syringes will not have any effect on the availability of drugs in the prison.

Maybe it will though. If needles are available to all prisoners, maybe some who previously didn’t use drugs in AMC due to the risk of using a dirty needle, will now be willing to.

Unless I’m missing something obvious (and I’m sure it’ll be pointed out if I am), I can’t see any down side to it

The potential downside? Ask the staff who have to work there.

I think you might be taking a liberty with the use of the words “freely available”. I believe knives are already freely available on the “Tooks scale of free”.

Are knives handed out to any prisoner who needs one? No.

Do the inmates have access to scissors, ball point pens, tooth brushes and screw drivers.

I don’t know what’s available to them. It would depend what part of the prison they’re in.

fgzk, the employees of the AMC are dead against this program. Why do you think this might be?

How about instead of raising the white flag and saying “drugs will always get in anyway, so let’s go the harm minimisation route”, why don’t they look at measures which will reduce the amount of drugs coming in? What’s next, safe injecting rooms with 24hr monitoring in case someone od’s?

Why not try this instead: If a visitor to the prison is caught smuggling drugs in, should charge them and ban them from visiting for a set period. The prisoner involved should then be banned from contact visits for a set period. Subsequent offences should result in harsher penalties.

Work on keeping drugs out, not just giving up because it’s too hard.

So the government is condoning and colluding with illegal activity within the prison? Stop the world I want to get off.

Am I alone in thinking the availability of clean needles may encourage others without a previous habit, to try some nice smack to ease their time at the Hume Hilton?

Interesting how the Govt doesn’t take this “well people who are going to take drugs will do it whatever we do, may as well let them get on with it,” attitude to people in society.

What do they do? They punish people by sending them to the Hume Hilton, where they can be nurtured in such activities.

Mad, mad, mad, mad, mad…..

Having provided a syringe should mean that safe disposal is provided as well. Therefore less chance of a stick injury from a hidden syringe.

For those proposing Dickensian conditions for prisoners, would you be happy with prison hulks on Lake Burley Griffin?

While the fears of corrective services officers are understandable – perhaps because poorly managed practices in the past have not given them confidence that the system will consider their wellbeing – I am sure they themselves could come up with a way to safely manage needle exchange and injecting rooms in the prison.

For example, could it not be managed in the same way as non-contact visits? – eg, with a single, clean needle available in the non-contact room. After use, the used needle could be disposed of in a visible, one-way ‘sharps’ chute before the prisoner exits.

OK – so drugs are going to get into the prison no matter what. It seems there’s nothing that can be done about that.

The shut-ins are already injecting drugs (meaning that there are already syringes in there) – they’re just using used/dirty equipment.

Providing them with clean syringes will not have any effect on the availability of drugs in the prison. It will have one effect and one effect only: to reduce the likelihood of (already) injecting drug users catching blood-borne diseases. As has already been pointed out, that alone will prevent significant expense to the health system.

Unless I’m missing something obvious (and I’m sure it’ll be pointed out if I am), I can’t see any down side to it.

Olfella – what a gem!

So much for rehab, these prisoner’s will do the same crimes all over again if dependent on drugs, how dumb.

It is a prison not a holiday resort no drugs no syringes period. As for blood infections maybe it is the safe sex practices not being safe? A yes sex, drugs and freedom what more can a prisoner want.

Lock em up and throw away the key and as for the Human Bloody rights prisoners deserve none. They have done wrong by society end of rights.

Let’s not poo poo too quickly the idea of supervisors being too scared to act. I’ve definitely been involved in such a situation when I worked in the PS, and a great program fell over because the very successful strategies implemented were not applied to one participant for fear of offending the sensibilities of his special interest group.

Call me a dinosaur, but I always thought human rights only extended to the point where they impacted in a negative fashion on someone elses human rights. The inmates in AMC are there because they have impinged on the rights of others, and they are therefore temporarily relieved of some of those rights – sort of an isolated “naughty corner” for those of gentle sensibilities.

And now they are to have the sanctioned opportunity to override the rights of the prison guards to a safe and secure workplace, in order to enable the ongoing illegal behaviour which in many instances was core to the inmate being incarcerated in the first place.

Makes perfect sense………………….

Excellent analogy ‘olfella’ – couldn’t pick a better one!

ZERO TOLERANCE – all the way!!!

If Stanhope, Corbell, Gallagher, Bresnan and even the Editor of the Canberra Times and a lot of others are for it under the guise of ‘we have to look after the health and welfare of those incarcerated at ACM, them why don’t they ban smoking in AMC?. After all they have banned smoking in clubs and pubs saying they have our best interests at heart, so to me at least, it makes sense to be really proactive on helping them give up the fags as well. And I bet the staff out there are not allowed to light up. So while the inmates file pass to pick up their new needle, they could be given out a few nicotine patches at the same time to ease them off their bad habit.

(in response to OP) gee… I wonder why they are finding it hard to recruit and retain guards?

Tooks “On another note, if I was a guard there I wouldn’t feel comfortable knowing one of the many Hep C (and worse) infected prisoners could use a freely available needle as a weapon against me. Of course, supporters of the proposed program will never have to worry about that, will they?”

No. They worry about trying to stem the spread of infection through the whole community. This is one fight/issue.

I think you might be taking a liberty with the use of the words “freely available”. I believe knives are already freely available on the “Tooks scale of free”. Do the inmates have access to scissors, ball point pens, tooth brushes and screw drivers. They all make good weapons? How is access to these thing controlled? What”s the present weapon of choice in AMC.

Proboscus “now they have to get permission from a higher ranking supervisor I’m told are too scared to conduct said searches.”
Oh please “too scared to conduct searches”. What are they afraid of? Is it treating people as humans that they are scared of?

Proboscus “Where are these syringes coming from?”
You really need to do some research. Its a good start knowing “where and why”.

Illicit drug use bring a lot of complex issues. At the very least its good to see organisations openly discussing the issues involved and seeking new ways to deal with them.

Dead set against it mate and I suspect the silent majority are but as usual a vocal majority will keep whittering on, feeding their soundbites to an acquiescent media until our ‘leaders’ go with what they think is popular opinion.

But ask your mate – how do drugs get into the Prison anyway?

To Proboscus. Its not a matter of encouraging drug use. Its just a matter of dealing with the facts. If you can keep drugs out of prison I have no problem with banning syringes. If on the other hand you cannot keep drugs out of prisons – and to my knowledge this has never been done – then you have to deal with the situation.

Its a bit like teenage sex – you can tell them not to do it & read the bible or you can be practical & give them contraception.

2) erm that’s not IN the prison though, as AAM said

The drugs in the prison are illegal. They are illegal outside gaol too. So, short and to the point, fuck ’em. No needles in gaol.

In NSW I know of quite a number of cases where prison officers have been pricked by syringes hidden by inmates. I also know of a number of cases where inmates have contracted Hep C and one where the inmate was waiting to see if they had HIV. That was last year, in one particular NSW correction centre. Who knows how many others cases there have been.

Sorry Proboscus, but it’s only a matter of time before an inmate at AMC gets a disease such as Hep C while in custody. How long has the place been open ???? If you could personally see some of the syringes that inmates use, you’d probably throw up on the spot.

Did you know that some gaols provide condomns ??? Female gaols also supply dental dams (yes, a piece of rubber designed to protect both participants from getting a disease). So what’s the difference with providing a disease free way of taking drugs, which they are already managing to get in and will continue to manage to get into AMC.

As far as not being able to charge people for bringing drugs in because the gaol supplies the equipment to use them, well that’s just complete f#@king rubbish. What about syringe dispensers in Belconnen and Civic. So because syringes are available in the community the police aren’t allowed to charge people with drug related offences anymore. Lol. Stupid argument.

From an AMC employee: One particular lady was caught smuggling drugs to a prisoner she was visiting. She was caught, but not banned from visits due to the human rights act.

Is it any wonder drugs are (allegedly) so freely available at AMC?

On another note, if I was a guard there I wouldn’t feel comfortable knowing one of the many Hep C (and worse) infected prisoners could use a freely available needle as a weapon against me. Of course, supporters of the proposed program will never have to worry about that, will they?

The responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the guards.

makes sense to me. May as well make the major suppliers of prison drugs responsible for the
sh!tfight if it all goes wrong.

I don’t think providing syringes is ever meant as an encouragement for drug use. Think of it more as an investment. Small syringe cost equals massive public health cost saving.

Wow so many thoughts.
I agree with prevention. One way or another they are going to do it anyway.
I feel squeamish at the thought of being a prison guard and having to search someones cell etc.
I guess it started with condoms, now syringes,,,maybe in the future they will be supplied the drugs so we know they aren’t taking anything ‘dirty’ that might harm them.
Crap, why even send them to the Hilton in the first place?

To the OP I can see the point. How contradicting is that?
If I got caught with a syringe with an illegal substance residue I could go to the Hilton,,where they will supply me with a syringe to use my illegal substance!?!?!

I don’t know the answer but it sure needs some thinking about before ANYONE makes a decision on it.

We need to bring back Stuart Gillespie as the force to be reckoned with in the prison system. Call me a gestapho but I totally support Proboscus in his sentiments on this joke of a ‘penal system’. Prisons are supposed to be there to punish the criminals, not give them free smack and continue their pathetic habits which lead to more crime on the outside.

It is absolutely disgusting that the officers aren’t allowed to speak out against the lunatics that run the asylum. Mr Gillespie is well aware all public servants have to live under a code of silence, not being able to speak out against the corruptness in the system. The code of silence is there to protect the dickheads that are in charge making the decisions for everyone regardless of the wishes of the democracy.

We need to rise up and speak against the softly-softly regime for criminals in the ACT (and in all of Australia). Canberra has become the laughing stock, and it is high time the tide was turned, and our justice system was brought back to the way it was meant to be.

“now they have to get permission from a higher ranking supervisor I’m told are too scared to conduct said searches.”

Sorry, but that is bollocks. The scared part that is

Absolute zero tolerance policy is needed here. I cannot believe that anyone is even considering this let alone advocating it.

We are talking about prisons…………..where people go to be ‘punished’ for crimes against society.

What’s next – daily massages to relax them from the day to day stress of confinement? Let’s all harden up a bit and realise that prison should be prison – not a break!

You know what my first thought was? How come LAW ABIDING citizens are being ridiculed, made to feel like second class citizens for smoking tobaccoo which is a LEGAL product sold in shops, yet the same GOVERNMENT wants to provide CRIMINALS in PRISON with syringes to inject ILLEGAL drugs!? I think it’s time the Stanhope government was kicked out of office, this is just insane. Funnily enough The Canberra Times website was quick to close the comments section of the article about the prison syringes.

@Deref: I did and his reply was that since the Human Rights Act came in that the guards powers have diminished when it comes to searches. Apparently they could strip search a prisoner on suspicion of carrying drugs before the HRA – now they have to get permission from a higher ranking supervisor I’m told are too scared to conduct said searches.

@AAM: (1) Just because you can’t keep the drugs out of a prison why would you encourage drug use in a Government run institution where the clients, for the main, are in their for drug related crime? As for drug smuggling by prison guards – my mate and I didn’t broach the subject.

(2) There are plenty of examples of blood filled syringes being used in armed hold-ups of your local. Where are these syringes coming from?

(3) Again, I didn’t broach the subject of needle stick injuries with my friend although you seem to have some knowledge of the subject – please enlighten us. And as I said in my OP, there are NO examples of prisoners getting a disease inside the Hilton.

A few facts
Three facts

1. No prison anywhere in the world has been able to keep drugs out (some are smuggled in by prison guards)

2. There has never been an attack with a syringe in a prison anywhere when have been made available

3. There have been a number of injuries caused during searches when prion officers accidently prick themselves on syringes hidden in the cells.

Its in everybody’s interest to minimise the spread of HIV/Hep A,B & C so we don’t really want people coming out of jail more pox ridden than when they went in.

Did you ask your mate why their inspections are so totally ineffective at stopping drugs from getting in?