Joel Monaghan says goodbye

p1 said :

Calochilus said :

Thus there is a significant proportion of players who have significant inadequacies of frontal lobe activity in their brains.

Nice theory, not sure if their is a lot of valid research to actually prove it.

That said, there is the issue of these guys being hit in the head over and over again over a long period of time. That can’t do good things to the brain.

I guess it’s time for you to put your specs on, interrogate Google and PubMed, the issue of chronic traumatic brain injury is well demonstrated in American Gridiron football, also in childrens soccer in USA but it is a very different issue to frontal lobe inadequacies.

TheObserver said :

Joel was a soft target for the NRL and the Sponsors. I don’t actually buy Canberra Milk and would encourage people to shop around. In fact I am too lazy to do the shopping and get my milk from Aussie Farmers direct – http://www.aussiefarmers.com.au – I would encourage anyone who is thinks the Raiders got strongarmed by the sponsors to do the same.

Is this an ad for some type of bestiality farm camp?

Frano said :

YOU laughed out loud?! I laughed out loud when I read your comments about Churchill and John Raper. Is that the same John Raper who nothing else in a London street, apart from a bowler hat?

Yeah I did… Sucked in to the prick.

Nudie run in a bowler hat vs violating a dogs mouth.

Apples and oranges.

The point still remains that those guys had a higher level of interraction with the rest of society due to the fact that they were in the workforce, meaning they were answerable to more than just their club and their team. They had to deal with bosses and colleagues from backgrounds other than that of a rugby league player.

So while they still may have engaged in some silly stuff, none of them would have done something as stupid and disgusting as what we’ve all had to endure through the media this week.

I did say it was just a theory.

AngryHenry said :

Nope not the legacy of not being caught. Don’t put words in my mouth.

I don’t think any of those old guys were saints but they had things like normal day jobs because they weren’t paid these ridiculous salaries to chuck around a ball.

As a consequence outside of the game they were probably more functional members of society.

Just a theory.

My comment was made in jest, though I think there’s a decent chance that the same sort of carry-on has been occurring unseen for many years due to less sophisticated communications, media/club complicity and changing societal values.

AngryHenry said :

I must say I thoroughly enjoyed watching him squirm at the press conference. And I laughed out loud as the troops rallied behind him. I even snorted when I heard Don Furner say that this was the kind of drunken stupidity other people might get away with.

If he thinks he’s gonna get away from it in England he’s dreaming. Ever heard of British tabloids?

All these blokes have to do is go to training and play footy, I’m not saying it’s physically demanding and a tough job, but it’s the only job they have and they get paid a lot for it. When are they gonna learn?

I am partial to having a punt on the odd game but I feel like I have had a gutful of enabling these tools. They do nothing for the game and undermine the legacy left by great players like Johnny Raper and Clive Churchill.

YOU laughed out loud?! I laughed out loud when I read your comments about Churchill and John Raper. Is that the same John Raper who nothing else in a London street, apart from a bowler hat?

Calochilus said :

Thus there is a significant proportion of players who have significant inadequacies of frontal lobe activity in their brains.

Nice theory, not sure if their is a lot of valid research to actually prove it.

That said, there is the issue of these guys being hit in the head over and over again over a long period of time. That can’t do good things to the brain.

Calochilus said :

Interesting to note that the person who took the photograph and the person who posted it on the web are unmentioned and unpunished, is there justice here?

Who cares who they are, they did a public service. Aside from using a carriage service to distribute questionable material, they did the right thing.

Calochilus said :

Interesting to note that the person who took the photograph and the person who posted it on the web are unmentioned and unpunished, is there justice here?

Oh, I reckon the club know who they are, and have taken inhouse punitive measures against them. No need to inflame the public situation any further, hey? Let Monaghan be the fall guy, we’ll take care of the rest.

TheObserver said :

I would encourage anyone who is thinks the Raiders got strongarmed by the sponsors to do the same.

On the other hand, I would encourage anybody who thought that the Raiders’ & NRL’s responses to the players’ (IE: Joel and the others who were there) actions didn’t go far enough to instead take it to the sponsors. 😛

The Raiders & NRL could have used this event as the example that sets the standard for future Code of Conduct and misbehaviour, but chose not to exercise the opportunity to its fullest.
Neither did, but instead they’ve isolated Joel Monaghan into being the betrayed confederate\fall guy, instead of merely being the face of the broader phenomenon.

I never cease to be amazed at the breadth of ignorance, the shallowness of analysis and the sheer stupidity of some comment.
Disregard Joel Monaghan, think back to Todd Carney.
Think back even further to Willie Mason.
The real issue is that the Rugby League (Substitute the football code of your choice) recruit players from a very specific group, those who react intuitively, do not think of strategies on the run but respond reflexively to comprehensive training. Thus there is a significant proportion of players who have significant inadequacies of frontal lobe activity in their brains. This renders them prone to being victims of their own impulsivity and lack of good judgement. The NRL is aware of this but has chosen to ignore reality, refuse to screen its players to pick up the vulnerable and give them readily available, specific coaching and advice on how to avoid the pitfalls of a somewhat erratic brain.
On the other hand, the VFL, while slow off the mark and not publicly, has admitted the problem and has in place, some intervention trials to strengthen the apparent weaknesses in some players judgement skills, to reduce the impact that alcohol has on judgement (a common thread in most players fall from grace) and to give vulnerable players, a set of skills to avoid trouble and personal disgrace.
It is a reality, that employers have a duty of care to their employees. Its time that sporting code organisations such as the NRL and AFL particularly, accept that by paying astronomical salaries to players with minimal skills other than their sporting prowess must come up with the support to those players to manage their lives adequately.
The fact that there is a never ending succession of personal disgraces throughout the sporting fraternity really shows that managing organisations are milking these players for all they are worth and when they transgress, from what would be seen in the community as common assault, but what is seen on the field as vigorous play, to drunken stupidities off field, they are thrown to the wolves. This is pure exploitation.
So , specifically, the blame sheets home, not to Joel Monaghan, but to the Canberra Raiders management, who should, in terms of foreknowledge, and in terms of duty of care, put in place actions that would have minimised the chance of such stupidities occurring in the first place, and secondly, ensured that they are not escalated by other parties .
Interesting to note that the person who took the photograph and the person who posted it on the web are unmentioned and unpunished, is there justice here?

Nope not the legacy of not being caught. Don’t put words in my mouth.

I don’t think any of those old guys were saints but they had things like normal day jobs because they weren’t paid these ridiculous salaries to chuck around a ball.

As a consequence outside of the game they were probably more functional members of society.

Just a theory.

Joel was a soft target for the NRL and the Sponsors. I don’t actually buy Canberra Milk and would encourage people to shop around. In fact I am too lazy to do the shopping and get my milk from Aussie Farmers direct – http://www.aussiefarmers.com.au – I would encourage anyone who is thinks the Raiders got strongarmed by the sponsors to do the same.

Annoying that the NRL wasted the best opportunity to seize the moment and state: This is setting the bar, so in future activities WORSE than this one (eg the much mentioned drink-driving, endangering lives, sexual assault etc) will always result in the sack on first strike. Who could conceivably have objected? The NRL head office have said they have been wanting to instigate a nicer culture in the League; this was their one opportunity to introduce suitable sanctions without causing affront to the fans, and they’ve wasted it.

mutley said :

AngryHenry said :

They do nothing for the game and undermine the legacy left by great players like Johnny Raper and Clive Churchill.

I have heard a lot of stories about the old-time “greats” that would make many of today’s players blush (although probably not Joel.)

I think he meant the proud legacy of not getting caught.

Well, he did a dumb thing – he’s paid for it, but he has also ‘manned-up’ and taken his medicine in the public fashion – showing genuine remorse and providing a pretty heartfelt apology. How many others in society do this. Most of the time only excuses are offered “I had food poisoning”, or “everyone else was doing it” and then the apology is conditional “I apologise IF anyone got hurt” and the person is really more sorry they got caught. Monners is probably pretty sorry he got caught out, but I also think he’s pretty sorry for what he actually did.

And with all the hoopla from the NRL I do wonder whether Monners is just a convenient scalp for them – you know, turning the other cheek to gang-banging, glassing of girlfriends, defacation in hotel corridors. I’d like to bet the options from NRL were “sack him or make him resign”

AngryHenry said :

They do nothing for the game and undermine the legacy left by great players like Johnny Raper and Clive Churchill.

I have heard a lot of stories about the old-time “greats” that would make many of today’s players blush (although probably not Joel.)

I must say I thoroughly enjoyed watching him squirm at the press conference. And I laughed out loud as the troops rallied behind him. I even snorted when I heard Don Furner say that this was the kind of drunken stupidity other people might get away with.

If he thinks he’s gonna get away from it in England he’s dreaming. Ever heard of British tabloids?

All these blokes have to do is go to training and play footy, I’m not saying it’s physically demanding and a tough job, but it’s the only job they have and they get paid a lot for it. When are they gonna learn?

I am partial to having a punt on the odd game but I feel like I have had a gutful of enabling these tools. They do nothing for the game and undermine the legacy left by great players like Johnny Raper and Clive Churchill.

CraigT said :

That’s Rugby League for you. Wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.

What about a Joel pole?

CraigT said :

That’s Rugby League for you. Wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.

Yeah, because the other codes are sooo well behaved.

The thing about this is some of this outrage comes not from the victimisation of the dog but of the “you must be mad to put your precious cargo in the hold” mentality.

The real offence is the circulation of the picture and how it affects to recipients. Its essentially about indecency rather than sexual assault. Because frankly I think bestiality is about mistreatment of animals and I don’t see a dick in a labradors mouth the same as one in a chicken’s behind – and maybe I am being specieist here but this is more along the turkey slap line of a crime (forgive the further animal reference).

Which means that those who encouraged the act and circulated the picture and did so behind a fake twitter account are clearly more reprehensible.

Its probably not legally viable but if I was one of those journalists sent the image via email I would send a law suit of some sort towards the club.

Well, now that we’ve established the penalty for a tasteless (or tasty-dogs have weird tastes) but harmless prank, I expect the sponsors and NRL to kill stone dead the careers of those f*cktards who actually cause harm or, through reckless behaviour like drink driving, endanger other people’s lives.

But I won’t be holding my breathe.

Now that we know the football penalty for sticking your dick in a dog’s mouth, what’s the football penalty for rape, assault and drunk driving?

Nothing, as usual, I suspect.

Hoola Hoop – “What woman is going to want to go anywhere near him after he%u2019s happy to put his dick in a dog%u2019s mouth?”

I think you’re over-estimating the standards that apply within the rugby-league-watching scrubber demographic.

Furner’s response says it all: getting caught is what concerns him, not the immoral, disgusting and illegal behaviour.
That’s Rugby League for you. Wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.

Hoola Hoop said :

What woman is going to want to go anywhere near him after he’s happy to put his dick in a dog’s mouth?

Drunk football groupies, gold diggers, Paris Hilton.

Oh I’ve got a clear picture!

I can’t believe this debate!!! “Sorry” “Drunk” “Young” “Fame” “Country Boys”
Come on everyone, this looser was photographed with his dick in a dog’s gob!!!!!
Sure that’s not as heinous as raping a young woman, however if you’re low enough scum to be photographed with your dick in a dog’s mouth, are you going to have morals when it comes to the treatment of women??? I doubt it very much!!
Does this bloke have a girlfriend? If so, is she going to be ok with his dick after it has been in a dogs mouth (and god knows where else). Shit, she’d be as low as him if she continued a sexual relationship with a man who does that! If he doesn’t have a relationship with a woman, how is he ever going to establish a sexual relationship with his profile??? He’s literally going to have to change his identity!
What woman is going to want to go anywhere near him after he’s happy to put his dick in a dog’s mouth? Unless he changes his identity, it’s not going to take a woman long to find out!!!
Any woman who interacts sexually with this bloke, knowing where his dick has been is as big a looser as him!!!
This bloke really is finished – he deserves everything he gets! Quite frankly, he should be locked up in an institutiion for the criminally insane. He obviously has dangerous psycological issues!

@Davo111 (oopsy… I hope it is clear the “you” i was referring to #41, was in fact, not you, you… although, if you are a footballer, i guess it could include you, you as “you”. I hope you understand… I think I need a beer…)

Holy crap……………..how can people defend this guy……….’just a drunken night’ or ‘hell, everyone does it when they are drunk’……………….

You have to kidding……….really kidding! Get the hell out of dodge, pal, what you did was just too much for words. And more importantly, those that are defending this guy, for Gods sake hand your pets into the RSPCA tomorrow…………they obviously aren’t that safe at home anymore!!!

Next subject thanks…………..!

Davo111 said :

No sympathy from me. Perhaps they could force resignations on other sex/drinking crimes caused by sports athletes

True; & No doubt they would if the evidence was forthcoming from those around who took photos with their handy phone-type devices… Quite simply, if you are doing something around others that you’d be ashamed of if it was made widely available/circulated – perhaps you should reconsider what it is you are, in fact, doing… that’s a pretty simple moral compass for footballers…

Tool said :

This crap is not unusual, how many country bumpkins had their first sexual experience with an animal?

WTF?! Apparently, a few of the killers of Anita Cobby used to have sex with sheep and they turned out just great didn’t they?!

Not sure where you get your info from ‘Tool’ but I know a few farmers who would take issue with your comments.

No sympathy from me. Perhaps they could force resignations on other sex/drinking crimes caused by sports athletes

I heard one person (probably a Raider or even Don Furner) in the FM104.7 news bulletin this afternoon, say that “he [Joel Monaghan] has paid a high price for what, let’s face it, (from here on I forget the exact wording) most people would get up to on a drunken night”…

Hell, I was bought up Catholic, so I may be a *little* out of touch with general community attitude, but I am pretty sure I’ve never even thought about putting my own dick in a dog’s mouth, yet alone acted on it – drunk or otherwise… Sure, I heard some funny jokes about such things… But, I’d put money on the fact that most people see that particular act as disgusting. Just ’cause it ain’t illegal, doesn’t make it OK.

The fact that the Raiders have reacted pretty much along the lines of “upsetting that he was caught” and not along the lines of what a “bloody stupid thing to do” speaks volumes about the expectations of behaviour from footballers generally… The Raiders, and Furner in particular, are so obviously more enraged at the fellas that leaked the photos, than the act itself – and that is really, really, bloody disgusting on their parts.

I’m not sure he deserved to lose his job over it, but the level of ridicule – yeah – he bloody-well deserves that in bucket-loads… it’ll blow-over in time (well, until the next footballer does something stupid, and this gets recalled again)

I believe the Government’s the line website just might be useful to Joel, Mr Furner, The Raiders and every footballer who “has a few” in celebration…

Hoola Hoop said :

Canberra Milk might pull their sponsorship, but you’ll be guarunteed that Pal will be waiting in the wings!

I think silly joke phase finished, what, three days ago?

Welcome to the digital era, if there was no photo do you think this story would have surfaced? I think not. I think everyone who thinks its cool to do ‘crazy stunts’ whilst the guy/gal not brave enough to films it, should think again. This crap is not unusual, how many country bumpkins had their first sexual experience with an animal? I am sure if there was a camera many of our very well known personalities would not be where they are now based on the reaction in this case.

It’s one thing that this has happened, but what I’d like to know is hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow!!!!!!

JB the NRL are insisting that they don’t know who took the photo – where did your informant find out, and how on earth was the information withheld from the NRL if you were privy to the identity? You said you know who took it …

Canberra Milk might pull their sponsorship, but you’ll be guarunteed that Pal will be waiting in the wings!

Here’s the ABC News report…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz3QHuFenoU

This chart has just arrived in my inbox, the Canberra Raiders and their players may find it a handy field guide

Wait, why quote me?
When did I say two 16 years old going at it was child pornography, exactly?
Stop adding words that I clearly didn’t say.
Also, stop agreeing with me if you don’t know what I’m saying. 😛

If you really want to be specific:
The X 18 classification only applies to films and is a special classification which contains sexually explicit material between consenting adults.

For the purposes of Australian Law, “adult” means an individual natural person who is at least 18 years old.
(Both in our ACT Legislation Act 2001, and the Classification Act)
“child” means any person who is under 18 years of age in the Classification Act.
IE: No matter how old the dog is, its not an ‘adult’, since it is not a natural person.

If its classified X18 , its either unrestricted, category 1, or category 2.
If a material or publication is Refused Classification or is as yet “Unclassified’, they cannot be legally imported, sold or displayed in Australia.
(“material” includes any computer data or other form of recording from which sounds or written or pictorial matter may be produced.)

Frano said :

Whilst not defending Joel’s actions in any way, full marks to him for doing the right thing in resigning and not putting the onus on the club to make the hard decision. If only other football players (of all codes) and politicians (of all parties) would do the same and accept responsibility when they drop the ball, rather than hanging on in an untenable situation forcing their boss to sack (or not sack) them.

Personally I judge a person not only on what they did wrong, but how they react to it and accept responsibility.

1. good call!

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Frankly, a moment%u2019s consideration before on-circulating the image would have been a good thing, in hindsight.

Horse, gate, bolted.

For Christs sake, don’t give them any more ideas…

I had a look through the Commonwealth Crimes, Telco,. and Telco (Sexual Offences) Acts. I think [my god, can’t beleive I’m saying this] animals are still OK.

Whilst not defending Joel’s actions in any way, full marks to him for doing the right thing in resigning and not putting the onus on the club to make the hard decision. If only other football players (of all codes) and politicians (of all parties) would do the same and accept responsibility when they drop the ball, rather than hanging on in an untenable situation forcing their boss to sack (or not sack) them.

Personally I judge a person not only on what they did wrong, but how they react to it and accept responsibility.

PBO said :

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Skidbladnir said :

Mysteryman said :

If what Monaghan did wasn’t illegal, how is recording it and distribute it illegal?

Same as 16 year olds can have sex, but filming it & distributing the result is not.

Except this is not child pornography. What law does it fall under?

It is still Child pornography until the participants are 18 years old.

Holden Caulfield said :

PBO said :

Except this is not child pornography. What law does it fall under?

It is still Child pornography until the participants are 18 years old.

Yes, this is true, but adult canine ? child pornography, so the original question still remains…

The “this” I was referring to was the above photo of Joel Dog. I figured that was obvious, but I suppose I should have been clearer.

Essentially, I am puzzled as to why the fact that a photo of two 16 year olds going at it constitutes child pornography is being provided as proof that this particular photo is also illegal to distribute. I guess we’re all buggered.

The ? above should be “does not equal”.

PBO said :

Except this is not child pornography. What law does it fall under?

It is still Child pornography until the participants are 18 years old.

Yes, this is true, but adult canine ? child pornography, so the original question still remains…

PBO said :

[It is still Child pornography until the participants are 18 years old.

Call that dog’s vet and check?

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Skidbladnir said :

Mysteryman said :

If what Monaghan did wasn’t illegal, how is recording it and distribute it illegal?

Same as 16 year olds can have sex, but filming it & distributing the result is not.

Except this is not child pornography. What law does it fall under?

It is still Child pornography until the participants are 18 years old.

Skidbladnir said :

Mysteryman said :

If what Monaghan did wasn’t illegal, how is recording it and distribute it illegal?

Same as 16 year olds can have sex, but filming it & distributing the result is not.

Except this is not child pornography. What law does it fall under?

clp said :

Also why is it always Labradors who get involved in these sort of pranks?

Yeah, well you should see what they wear when they go out on the town, they’re practically begging for it!

Skidbladnir said :

Mysteryman said :

If what Monaghan did wasn’t illegal, how is recording it and distribute it illegal?

Same as 16 year olds can have sex, but filming it & distributing the result is not.

Gotcha. I hadn’t really followed the story – I assumed that he didn’t actually do anything with the animal, it just looked like it.

clp said :

Canberra Milk just doesn’t want to be the drink of choice for dog rooters.

Yes, a milk moustache isn’t a good look for Joel Monaghan.

In his comments, Mr Furner appears to typify pretty much everything that’s wrong with NRL (a player can do no wrong unless it’s reported in the media, and if it is reported in the media it’s someone else’s fault). If this is the attitude of their management then it’s no wonder the culture of the players won’t/can’t change.

If I was an NRL fan or official(I’m not but I used to buy a fair bit of Raiders merchandise for family overseas until this happened)I’d be particularly aggrieved by one NRL fans comments in the CT today.

This person says that nothing immoral happened between Monaghan and the dog as the dog has no concept of what was happening and, therefore, there was no victim. Which also implies that necrophilia is OK as long as one of the people involved is actually dead.

The writer of the letter goes on to say that he’s “had enough of philosophically ignorant NRL officials and sponsors who don’t understand that most fans don’t care about how players behave off the field… we just want to see a good footy”.

I wonder how Mr Remington of Gordon would feel if one of his family were sexually accosted in the early hours by an NRL player or if a player took a crap in his lounge room?! How do other NRL fans feel having this well adjusted person speak on their behalf?

Skidbladnir said :

Mysteryman said :

If what Monaghan did wasn’t illegal, how is recording it and distribute it illegal?

Same as 16 year olds can have sex, but filming it & distributing the result is not.

spot on.

Canberra Milk just doesn’t want to be the drink of choice for dog rooters.

The only logical option for him was to resign – I personally think the actual incident itself doesn’t warrant losing your job over – but unfortunately I think thats what had to happen in this case.

Why am I even commenting – I don’t care I have never watched a NRL game in my life and the only time I ever heard another Raiders player give a press conference (Ok so he wasn’t playing at the time) was the Mal Meninga launch of political career one.

Hope that you can move on Joel, good luck in the UK. P.s. the dog stays here.

Frankly, a moment%u2019s consideration before on-circulating the image would have been a good thing, in hindsight.

Horse, gate, bolted.

Mysteryman said :

If what Monaghan did wasn’t illegal, how is recording it and distribute it illegal?

Same as 16 year olds can have sex, but filming it & distributing the result is not.

I know but if you’re being paid vast sums of money to play a game then you can be expected to follow a strict regimen of diet and exercise I don’t see abstaining from alcohol as any more rigorous than having to go to training several nights a week.

Mind you they would also have to get rid of alcohol sponsorship as well.

I-filed said :

Are we all pleased with ourselves? I’m not. It’s a disgrace that footy players who endanger other people’s lives don’t get the sack, and this poor idiot gets the sack. Frankly, a moment’s consideration before on-circulating the image would have been a good thing, in hindsight.

I will be pleased when we see some consistency in penalties that are handed down to players – see my post above.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Don Furner is a disgrace.

Whilst he committed a disgusting act, Monaghan broke no law. Other players did. They electronically recorded the act and then used a carriage service to distribute it. These are both criminal acts…

Ahh… how do you figure? If what Monaghan did wasn’t illegal, how is recording it and distribute it illegal?

Are we all pleased with ourselves? I’m not. It’s a disgrace that footy players who endanger other people’s lives don’t get the sack, and this poor idiot gets the sack. Frankly, a moment’s consideration before on-circulating the image would have been a good thing, in hindsight.

clp said :

Well done thats a genuine apology and really no other outcome would be possible. Not that I think his misdeamour is anywhere near as bad as some other NRL players drunken exploits especially in regards to behaviour towards women. But you can’t expect the Raiders to play with dog rooter taunts.

However I think whilst this player has behaved responsibly I would like to see the powers that be actually act themselves in a positive way. In short that means that contracted players are agree to not consume any alcohol. It seems an outrageous thing to ask of young men in Australia but if you are a paid professional you can have stringent criteria put into your contract. Enforcement is another issue but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t put this in contracts in the first place.

And yet most people who drink too much do nothing worse than make regrettable phone calls to their exes.

Don Furner is a disgrace.

Whilst he committed a disgusting act, Monaghan broke no law. Other players did. They electronically recorded the act and then used a carriage service to distribute it. These are both criminal acts.

Covering this up, as Furner seems happy to do is reprehensible.

Also why is it always Labradors who get involved in these sort of pranks?

Well done thats a genuine apology and really no other outcome would be possible. Not that I think his misdeamour is anywhere near as bad as some other NRL players drunken exploits especially in regards to behaviour towards women. But you can’t expect the Raiders to play with dog rooter taunts.

However I think whilst this player has behaved responsibly I would like to see the powers that be actually act themselves in a positive way. In short that means that contracted players are agree to not consume any alcohol. It seems an outrageous thing to ask of young men in Australia but if you are a paid professional you can have stringent criteria put into your contract. Enforcement is another issue but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t put this in contracts in the first place.