Kangaroo culls - Do we have the right to protest?

dungfungus said :

At least a Kangaroo can stop breeding in times of drought so that the offspring won’t starve to death.

An oft-quoted fallacy. Some populations of Western Red kangaroos have shown evidence of this. They are the only species of kangaroo to do so. Eastern Greys don’t.

crappicker said :

I do not think that we are being told the full story by the ACT government.

In at least one of the reserves I am familiar with, Callum Brae, there is ongoing fox baiting by TAMS. I imagine the fox baiting occurs in response to pressure from nearby sheep farmers. The baiting reduces a natural predator for the kangaroos, and so results in increased pressure on the grass supply for nearby farms. TAMS then is pressured for a kangaroo cull. At Callum Brae kangaroo culls have been going on for years.

I am not that familiar with other reserves where regular culls occur, eg Kama, the Pinnacle and Mount Painter, but imagine that silimar scenarios may apply.

A cull of spin doctors in TAMS’ media room seems well overdue.

A convoluted argument. Foxes have minimal impact upon kangaroo numbers. And that scenario you ‘imagine’ could only be imagined for very few of the reserves.

For some of us, the problem is that this annual cull (which by its nature is cruel, and also isn’t cheap) has not yet been subjected to even the most basic evaluation. Is the cull controlling kangaroo numbers? Sounds of crickets. No-one will answer that simple question.

Let’s leave the more complex questions of whether controlling ‘roo numbers actually has the downstream “benefits” claimed for it – it can’t achieve those “benefits” if it’s not controlling numbers, and the rebound rates in the populations (as demonstrated by the need for the cull every year, albeit sometimes in different places) suggest that it isn’t even controlling the population. And it if is, the population may be recovering quite rapidly.

It’s your money folks – don’t you want to know if it’s being spent effectively (working)? Or are you happy for government to spend millions (five years now I think) and never report on effectiveness?

I don’t know why public servants would keep promoting a practice if they didn’t think it was working, but stranger things have happened. Any of you with experience of working in a public service organisation will know that other factors can come into play, like ego, budgets, empire-building…

And why are cattle allowed into culled reserves?

I do not think that we are being told the full story by the ACT government.

In at least one of the reserves I am familiar with, Callum Brae, there is ongoing fox baiting by TAMS. I imagine the fox baiting occurs in response to pressure from nearby sheep farmers. The baiting reduces a natural predator for the kangaroos, and so results in increased pressure on the grass supply for nearby farms. TAMS then is pressured for a kangaroo cull. At Callum Brae kangaroo culls have been going on for years.

I am not that familiar with other reserves where regular culls occur, eg Kama, the Pinnacle and Mount Painter, but imagine that silimar scenarios may apply.

A cull of spin doctors in TAMS’ media room seems well overdue.

dungfungus said :

I practice what I preach if that’s what you mean. I live within my means in all respects.

So, you don’t live in a house or apartment that sits on what was once uncleared bushland? Living within your means has nothing to do with a growing population requiring more land to be cleared and dwellings and amenities be built to accommodate that population.

dungfungus said :

While Obama says (pathetically) that climate change is the world’s biggest threat, unbridled population growth is a bigger one.

Probably not far of there at least.

dungfungus said :

What a shame that people in a subsistence environment still breed to compound the problem for themselves and the rest of the world who are obliged to help them.

What subsistence environment? There certainly isn’t one in Canberra. I certainly don’t know of anybody purely living a subsistence lifestyle. If you live in a house, have electricity and plumbing, and eat food you don’t hunt and gather yourself, you are not living a subsistence lifestyle or in a subsistence environment.

dungfungus said :

At least a Kangaroo can stop breeding in times of drought so that the offspring won’t starve to death.

Well apparently they are about as good as humans when it comes to self regulating their population, hence the need for the culls.

Pork Hunt said :

So Dungers, are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

I practice what I preach if that’s what you mean. I live within my means in all respects.
While Obama says (pathetically) that climate change is the world’s biggest threat, unbridled population growth is a bigger one.
What a shame that people in a subsistence environment still breed to compound the problem for themselves and the rest of the world who are obliged to help them.
At least a Kangaroo can stop breeding in times of drought so that the offspring won’t starve to death.

Mysteryman said :

Not only do I support the cull completely, but I also feel that the people protesting it and complaining about it are somewhat detached from reality.

That much has been obvious for years – and yet our defective legal system allows them to lodge bizarre actions every single year, rather than dealing definitively with their delusional beliefs once and for all the first time they crop up.

You don’t suppose….lawyers actually *benefit* from allowing pointless legal actions to repeat in what seems like a never-ending loop, do you…?

So Dungers, are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

Roksteddy said :

Dame Canberra said :

perhaps it would be more effective to protest the method?

As Grimm said, what other method is there? Currently, it is the best method available.
Yes, there is a fertility control trial happening. Until that is finalised, then there really isn’t an alternative.

Ah, I didn’t realise the fertility control method was a trial. I thought it was a choice between that, shooting and a bunch of other options I’d assumed were at the government’s disposal. Apparently not! As you were, folks.

Dame Canberra said :

perhaps it would be more effective to protest the method?

As Grimm said, what other method is there? Currently, it is the best method available.
Yes, there is a fertility control trial happening. Until that is finalised, then there really isn’t an alternative.

And yes, of course we have the right to protest. You have the right to be opposed to the cull. I can understand you opposing culling of a species that is very visually prominent on the Canberra landscape. They are a beautiful creature. But if we do nothing then we are condemning other species that don’t get our attention because they aren’t so cute and cuddly. You should be opposed to their demise.

Given the chance, a kangaroo would shoot you without batting an eyelid, believe me. I spoke to one the other day who ended our conversation with the ever-so-unsettling “just be glad I don’t have opposable thumbs, boyo…” he then winked at me and made a clicking sound that I still hear in my dreams…

Seriously, I saw a thing on the news not too long ago that they were experimenting on some kind of medicinal sterilisation method to reduce/replace the cull? Anyone else see this?

And also seriously, the only person I have ever known who participated in the cull was a redneck who looked forward to it every year because it gave him a chance to act out his psycho tendencies, and the only person I ever knew who protested the cull was a hippie weirdo. Maybe if normal people participated in either side of the argument I’d be more inclined to get involved rather than feel the irresistible urge to back away slowly.

dungfungus said :

If you substitute “human” for kangaroos and “the world” for Canberra in what you just posted, the resultant scenario provides the solution for the world and all of its problems.

There’s always one of you….

Dame Canberra said :

I know that kangaroos need to be culled, but I’d much prefer they weren’t shot, or bashed over the head. Rather than protesting the cull itself, which is going to happen anyway, perhaps it would be more effective to protest the method?

So, what method would you suggest, other than shooting? One that is both humane and cost effective, as shooting them is.

Mysteryman said :

Not only do I support the cull completely, but I also feel that the people protesting it and complaining about it are somewhat detached from reality.

Many of them are fruitloops who need to be locked up for their own safety. One idiot suggested people put themselves between the shooters and the roos.

Natural selection should probably have been allowed to take its course on that one.

Not only do I support the cull completely, but I also feel that the people protesting it and complaining about it are somewhat detached from reality.

wildturkeycanoe said :

dungfungus said :

If you substitute “human” for kangaroos and “the world” for Canberra in what you just posted, the resultant scenario provides the solution for the world and all of its problems.

This would be a great solution, but unnecessary. The problem is caused by unfair distribution of most of the available grass to the wealthiest kangaroos, leaving the majority, poorer and weaker kangaroos to survive on what is left on the reserve.

It must have been one of the wealthy kangaroos that made a deposit on my driveway this morning.
Note that very few wealthy humans have 10 children.

I know that kangaroos need to be culled, but I’d much prefer they weren’t shot, or bashed over the head. Rather than protesting the cull itself, which is going to happen anyway, perhaps it would be more effective to protest the method?

dungfungus said :

If you substitute “human” for kangaroos and “the world” for Canberra in what you just posted, the resultant scenario provides the solution for the world and all of its problems.

This would be a great solution, but unnecessary. The problem is caused by unfair distribution of most of the available grass to the wealthiest kangaroos, leaving the majority, poorer and weaker kangaroos to survive on what is left on the reserve.

Yep, you still have the right to protest.

It’s dangerous to cycle on the roads, still a cyclist has a right to use ’em.

If you get shot however… Hmm. Can of worms and all that. Just use your noggin, I guess.

Grimm said :

Yes, the high kangaroo density is due to the actions of humans, and yes, those actions are to blame for kangaroos eating all the remaining feed in those areas. I don’t think anybody is, or possibly could dispute that.

The reality is that Canberra is expanding, and the amount of land unused for building places to live is shrinking rapidly. Peoples needs for places to live etc are going to outweigh a few kangaroos, which are not exactly an endangered species. If kangaroo numbers aren’t kept in check by culling, the kangaroos starve to death, and the remaining flora and fauna in these areas also disappears.

The cull, in essence, is damage control. I’d much rather see the kangaroos die without ever knowing what happened than starve to death over weeks and die in agony. I’d also say it was a better idea to control their numbers than let them overpopulate and destroy the areas where the culls are taking place.

If you substitute “human” for kangaroos and “the world” for Canberra in what you just posted, the resultant scenario provides the solution for the world and all of its problems.

Yes, the high kangaroo density is due to the actions of humans, and yes, those actions are to blame for kangaroos eating all the remaining feed in those areas. I don’t think anybody is, or possibly could dispute that.

The reality is that Canberra is expanding, and the amount of land unused for building places to live is shrinking rapidly. Peoples needs for places to live etc are going to outweigh a few kangaroos, which are not exactly an endangered species. If kangaroo numbers aren’t kept in check by culling, the kangaroos starve to death, and the remaining flora and fauna in these areas also disappears.

The cull, in essence, is damage control. I’d much rather see the kangaroos die without ever knowing what happened than starve to death over weeks and die in agony. I’d also say it was a better idea to control their numbers than let them overpopulate and destroy the areas where the culls are taking place.