Left-leaning, pro-infrastructure city has its say

BunLover said :

2604 said :

dungfungus said :

The roadside election signs said the light would create 3,500 permanent jobs.

That’s a lot of tram drivers.

Why didn’t the media step up and challenge this fanciful claim?

Because the media in this city are relentlessly left-wing, pro-union and pro-Labor, that’s why. They think and act like university undergraduates and are completely incapable of thinking critically.

BTW, don’t forget that those 3,500 jobs are union jobs, with the chosen few being given above-market wages and conditions. It would be more like 7,000 jobs if the same amount of money were being spent by private citizens in the private economy.

Ah yes, that relentlessly left-leaning media explains why The Canberra Times advocated a vote for the Liberals.

Very few Canberrans still read the Canberra Times. I suspect very few would read the editorials.

2604 said :

dungfungus said :

The roadside election signs said the light would create 3,500 permanent jobs.

That’s a lot of tram drivers.

Why didn’t the media step up and challenge this fanciful claim?

Because the media in this city are relentlessly left-wing, pro-union and pro-Labor, that’s why. They think and act like university undergraduates and are completely incapable of thinking critically.

BTW, don’t forget that those 3,500 jobs are union jobs, with the chosen few being given above-market wages and conditions. It would be more like 7,000 jobs if the same amount of money were being spent by private citizens in the private economy.

Ah yes, that relentlessly left-leaning media explains why The Canberra Times advocated a vote for the Liberals.

rommeldog56 said :

dungfungus said :

The roadside election signs said the light would create 3,500 permanent jobs.

That’s a lot of tram drivers.

Why didn’t the media step up and challenge this fanciful claim?

As I recall, it said “3,500 jobs”, not “3,500 permanent jobs”. And it not clear if thats just for stage 1 or the whole network – presumably just tram stage 1.
Regardless, it is a misleading claim – often repeated by mindless pro tramers.

It would even include an electrician called in to do an hours work on the tram construction. For the most part, these would not be permanent jobs. However, as with the permanent jobs, they will be union dominated and that labor will be expensive. But what the hell, ACT Ratepayers can afford it and want it I suppose, so who cares.

Half the 3,500 will be traffic controllers (lollipop people) on Northbourne Avenue.
Even Phillip Clarke on ABC 666 Radio said this morning he had experienced (for the first time) traffic gridlock on Northbourne Avenue last Friday as workmen installed fencing for the light rail construction.

If Phil had then rushed back to his ABC studio and told Canberra what was happening maybe the election outcome would have been different, I mean why did the government start putting up the barriers on the eve of the election?

pink little birdie said :

Because apparently the workers will arrive in Canberra each day work and go back to Sydney when the shift ends?
It’s a 20 year building plan for the whole network. There is a good chance with steady work, shorter commute, good schools, more family friendly why wouldn’t the workers move here?
Also after the initial workers surely the training up of workers would be recruited from here.

I would imagine that the construction workforce will be contractors – and almost certainly a rich source of members for the local CFMEU.

dungfungus said :

The roadside election signs said the light would create 3,500 permanent jobs.

That’s a lot of tram drivers.

Why didn’t the media step up and challenge this fanciful claim?

As I recall, it said “3,500 jobs”, not “3,500 permanent jobs”. And it not clear if thats just for stage 1 or the whole network – presumably just tram stage 1.
Regardless, it is a misleading claim – often repeated by mindless pro tramers. It would even include an electrician called in to do an hours work on the tram construction. For the most part, these would not be permanent jobs. However, as with the permanent jobs, they will be union dominated and that labor will be expensive. But what the hell, ACT Ratepayers can afford it and want it I suppose, so who cares.

pink little birdie said :

Garfield said :

2604 said :

“A public transport infrastructure project will create full time employment”

So when ratepayers spend ratepayers’ money, it doesn’t create jobs. But when the ACT Government spends ratepayers’ money, it does create jobs?

That’s one hell of a magic trick.

I’ve talked to developers who say that most of the light rail construction workers will come from Sydney. Given that the construction materials and light rail cars will not be Canberra made and the consortium profits will not stay here, there’s not going to be a whole lot of economic benefit from the direct spending on construction. If direct taxation of residents was lower, a good portion of those funds would still make their way interstate and overseas, but its highly likely that a greater percentage would stay in the ACT, thus probably leading to more jobs in the ACT than light rail will generate.

Because apparently the workers will arrive in Canberra each day work and go back to Sydney when the shift ends?
It’s a 20 year building plan for the whole network. There is a good chance with steady work, shorter commute, good schools, more family friendly why wouldn’t the workers move here?
Also after the initial workers surely the training up of workers would be recruited from here.

The workers will come up for a week or two at a time and then go home for a few days. Its quite common in large scale construction. Site wages will also be a relatively small component of the construction cost. Sure there will be spending on accommodation and food while they’re here, but most of the workers’ discretionary spending will be in their home towns. Sure some may move here, but as well as being family friendly, Canberra can be an expensive place to live and buy property. The construction of stage 1 is only slated to take about 2 years and there’s no guarantee the same consortium will win, or even bid for, the contract for stage 2 and later stages. There also won’t be 3,500 construction jobs at any one time. The economists who came up with that figure criticised the unions for using it in the way they did.

dungfungus said :

The roadside election signs said the light would create 3,500 permanent jobs.

That’s a lot of tram drivers.

Why didn’t the media step up and challenge this fanciful claim?

Because the media in this city are relentlessly left-wing, pro-union and pro-Labor, that’s why. They think and act like university undergraduates and are completely incapable of thinking critically.

BTW, don’t forget that those 3,500 jobs are union jobs, with the chosen few being given above-market wages and conditions. It would be more like 7,000 jobs if the same amount of money were being spent by private citizens in the private economy.

I disagree with almost every claim in this OP.

– It’s incorrect to say the Libs lost because they ‘didn’t have a strategy’. They did. It just didn’t involve a tram. On almost every other policy they were just about level-pegging with Labor.

– The Greens were the earliest and strongest supporters of the tram project, yet they made no progress at all in this election. In fact they went backwards.

– While building infrastructure does indeed create jobs, the OP does not seem to consider that infrastructure must also be paid for. No city (or nation) can sustain itself by simply ‘building things’.

Now we have to find that $80,000 each – plus $80,000 each from every child in Canberra! I think it will hurt.

Garfield said :

2604 said :

“A public transport infrastructure project will create full time employment”

So when ratepayers spend ratepayers’ money, it doesn’t create jobs. But when the ACT Government spends ratepayers’ money, it does create jobs?

That’s one hell of a magic trick.

I’ve talked to developers who say that most of the light rail construction workers will come from Sydney. Given that the construction materials and light rail cars will not be Canberra made and the consortium profits will not stay here, there’s not going to be a whole lot of economic benefit from the direct spending on construction. If direct taxation of residents was lower, a good portion of those funds would still make their way interstate and overseas, but its highly likely that a greater percentage would stay in the ACT, thus probably leading to more jobs in the ACT than light rail will generate.

The roadside election signs said the light would create 3,500 permanent jobs.

That’s a lot of tram drivers.

Why didn’t the media step up and challenge this fanciful claim?

Garfield said :

2604 said :

“A public transport infrastructure project will create full time employment”

So when ratepayers spend ratepayers’ money, it doesn’t create jobs. But when the ACT Government spends ratepayers’ money, it does create jobs?

That’s one hell of a magic trick.

I’ve talked to developers who say that most of the light rail construction workers will come from Sydney. Given that the construction materials and light rail cars will not be Canberra made and the consortium profits will not stay here, there’s not going to be a whole lot of economic benefit from the direct spending on construction. If direct taxation of residents was lower, a good portion of those funds would still make their way interstate and overseas, but its highly likely that a greater percentage would stay in the ACT, thus probably leading to more jobs in the ACT than light rail will generate.

Because apparently the workers will arrive in Canberra each day work and go back to Sydney when the shift ends?
It’s a 20 year building plan for the whole network. There is a good chance with steady work, shorter commute, good schools, more family friendly why wouldn’t the workers move here?
Also after the initial workers surely the training up of workers would be recruited from here.

“We cannot as a nation keep relying on commodities which fluctuate and which have sent the mining industry into retreat.”

And yet the unpalatable truth is that we still rely heavily on those commodities to pay our way in the world, even though mining is a boom and bust source of domestic employment. It would take an awful lot of “high-skilled, high-waged” jobs, of the sort which produce substantial export dollars, and for which their is ferocious international competition, to replace commodities exports – still waiting for the boom of such jobs in Canberra.

2604 said :

“A public transport infrastructure project will create full time employment”

So when ratepayers spend ratepayers’ money, it doesn’t create jobs. But when the ACT Government spends ratepayers’ money, it does create jobs?

That’s one hell of a magic trick.

I’ve talked to developers who say that most of the light rail construction workers will come from Sydney. Given that the construction materials and light rail cars will not be Canberra made and the consortium profits will not stay here, there’s not going to be a whole lot of economic benefit from the direct spending on construction. If direct taxation of residents was lower, a good portion of those funds would still make their way interstate and overseas, but its highly likely that a greater percentage would stay in the ACT, thus probably leading to more jobs in the ACT than light rail will generate.

Wow, you mean Canberra naturally leans to the left side of politics and people who will personally benefit from public spending will vote in their self interest?

I’m truly shocked.

“A public transport infrastructure project will create full time employment”

So when ratepayers spend ratepayers’ money, it doesn’t create jobs. But when the ACT Government spends ratepayers’ money, it does create jobs?

That’s one hell of a magic trick.

wildturkeycanoe said :

“Pro infrastructure city has its say” – Actually, the 49% or so that supported the light rail project had their say, whilst at least 36% went against it. It isn’t exactly an overwhelming result to just scrape through with the alliance of a minor party to get across the line. We will never know what was in the mind of the Labor voters, whether or not the tram was their main reason for voting that way.

From the OP – “A public transport infrastructure project will create full time employment and that will have national consequences.”
Really? The unemployment numbers for the Gold Coast area do not support this idea. Their employment figures didn’t have any significant changes after construction of the rail network commenced, nor after it finished either, unemployment still wandered somewhere about the national average.
Construction of the network will be done by contract labour brought from outside the city by companies that do this for a living. It isn’t like you can find any rail experts in Canberra to do the job. Maybe the electrical infrastructure will be taken care of Actew electricity, but even then it will be existing staff doing the work as you won’t be able to train up qualified personnel overnight. You may get some traffic controllers [if they don’t bring their own crews] and hole diggers/shovel leaners hired locally, but to claim it’ll create tons of jobs or that it’ll be of national significance is ludicrous. Tell me how it will affect Australia nationally?
If you think the associated land releases for development will bring a boom to the economy, I also have my doubts. To build all this new housing you need to have people willing to buy it. With the rates on units now skyrocketing and prices falling, finding investors and home buyers will be tough. I know that existing property owners are finding selling tough, probably because of all the new housing available which has flooded the market and crashed prices. My neighbor can’t sell his investment house as he can’t get enough to break even. This is hardly enticing for new buyers in the area.
Now apart from the tram drivers and whatever administration work will be created to run it, where are the jobs growth areas to bring more people to Canberra? The government is cutting back and relocating, even shutting down complete departments. There are less than fifty full time jobs on their web site, which is pretty poor for the largest employer group in the capital. How are people going to afford to buy these properties along the rail route?

The government will create “incentives” to sell them.
They will be visionary, of course.
Half of them will be allocated to refugees fully paid for by the government.

Next year’s rate/land tax assessments will have a “vision levy”.

I was quite prepared to send at least a few of my higher preferences to the Liberals because the Barr Government has quite a few shortcomings. I then looked at the Liberals and they started to look quite scary. I noticed Jeremy Hanson is very much into a command/control way of dealing with people, Alistair Coe hardly ever answered a question that had been asked and Giulia Jones’ driving and parking is still inconsistent with the laws of the Territory. Steve Dozpot seemed quite OK, but he won’t be around much longer and the rest are just the rest. In summary, the Liberals lost an unlosable election.

“Pro infrastructure city has its say” – Actually, the 49% or so that supported the light rail project had their say, whilst at least 36% went against it. It isn’t exactly an overwhelming result to just scrape through with the alliance of a minor party to get across the line. We will never know what was in the mind of the Labor voters, whether or not the tram was their main reason for voting that way.

From the OP – “A public transport infrastructure project will create full time employment and that will have national consequences.”
Really? The unemployment numbers for the Gold Coast area do not support this idea. Their employment figures didn’t have any significant changes after construction of the rail network commenced, nor after it finished either, unemployment still wandered somewhere about the national average.
Construction of the network will be done by contract labour brought from outside the city by companies that do this for a living. It isn’t like you can find any rail experts in Canberra to do the job. Maybe the electrical infrastructure will be taken care of Actew electricity, but even then it will be existing staff doing the work as you won’t be able to train up qualified personnel overnight. You may get some traffic controllers [if they don’t bring their own crews] and hole diggers/shovel leaners hired locally, but to claim it’ll create tons of jobs or that it’ll be of national significance is ludicrous. Tell me how it will affect Australia nationally?
If you think the associated land releases for development will bring a boom to the economy, I also have my doubts. To build all this new housing you need to have people willing to buy it. With the rates on units now skyrocketing and prices falling, finding investors and home buyers will be tough. I know that existing property owners are finding selling tough, probably because of all the new housing available which has flooded the market and crashed prices. My neighbor can’t sell his investment house as he can’t get enough to break even. This is hardly enticing for new buyers in the area.
Now apart from the tram drivers and whatever administration work will be created to run it, where are the jobs growth areas to bring more people to Canberra? The government is cutting back and relocating, even shutting down complete departments. There are less than fifty full time jobs on their web site, which is pretty poor for the largest employer group in the capital. How are people going to afford to buy these properties along the rail route?

This election was as much about the failings of the Liberals to present a competent set of candidates and policies.

When you try wheeling out the “OMG RATES” election campaign a second time, people are going to wonder why you bother. In addition with most people in town either in public service or running their own business, the plan of “tear up the contracts and get the rail-building company to build roads instead” was never going to gain traction.

It was great to see the Liberals attempt an alternative transport plan. That was a huge positive from my perspective, exactly what I want to see from an opposition: not just saying “no” to everything but challenging the project assumptions and looking for lower cost, more equitable or more easily implemented alternatives.

One public transport mistake the Liberals made was thinking that a service subsidised to the tune of $5 per trip could somehow become profitable by privatisation. Nobody wants to pay $30/day to get to work by bus!

I am looking forward to Canberra Liberals putting their best foot forward for this term. Court the Greens and independents. The best way to do this is by learning how to formulate policy and talk to the other parties about how your plan is better than the Government’s plan.

Here’s to a better game plan from the stable Hanson & Coe team for the next elections!