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Not with those finger-prints mate – Sultans IDs its customers

johnboy 22 September 2008 83

[September 21, 2008 @ 11:39]

The Canberra Times brings word of the security measures at Sultan’s Nightclub (122 Alinga St, Civic) which have been in place for the last couple of weeks.

    “The system involves patrons having their IDs scanned on entry, a digital photo taken and a finger pin the digital number generated from a fingerprint scan captured. The actual fingerprint is not used or stored…

    Future entry to the club for those ”enrolled” through the process was then as simple as scanning a finger. It also ensured patrons banned from the club could not regain entry.”

So…

Would this deter you? Or make you feel safer?

Nightclubs fingerprinting patrons

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83 Responses to Not with those finger-prints mate – Sultans IDs its customers
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manhole manhole 2:22 pm 13 Nov 08

In fact commenting here has reminded me why I stopped viewing this website a year ago – just it came up in a google search.

manhole manhole 2:11 pm 13 Nov 08

SheepGroper said :

manhole said :

Riot-act is anger therapy for people whose opinions are not respected.

Worked for you.

Proved my point exactly.

manhole manhole 2:10 pm 13 Nov 08

Mr Evil said :

manhole said :

How informed do you have to be before your opinion is worth something?

This is post number 78 and its the first to mention that the fingerprint and ID scan system isn’t owned or controlled by Sultans, its run by NightKey (see nightkey.com.au). Sultans merely hire their sevrices. Go to their website, you’ll feel much safer about going into a club with nightkey than one with just bouncers, and there’s at least two in Canberra now…………….

Business been a bit quiet lately?

???? Cheap shot. No connection to the business or Nightkey. Try and address sustance in ideas not in a bong.

Mr Evil Mr Evil 1:17 pm 13 Nov 08

manhole said :

How informed do you have to be before your opinion is worth something?

This is post number 78 and its the first to mention that the fingerprint and ID scan system isn’t owned or controlled by Sultans, its run by NightKey (see nightkey.com.au). Sultans merely hire their sevrices. Go to their website, you’ll feel much safer about going into a club with nightkey than one with just bouncers, and there’s at least two in Canberra now…………….

Business been a bit quiet lately?

SheepGroper SheepGroper 1:00 pm 13 Nov 08

manhole said :

Riot-act is anger therapy for people whose opinions are not respected.

Worked for you.

manhole manhole 12:49 pm 13 Nov 08

How informed do you have to be before your opinion is worth something?

This is post number 78 and its the first to mention that the fingerprint and ID scan system isn’t owned or controlled by Sultans, its run by NightKey (see nightkey.com.au). Sultans merely hire their sevrices. Go to their website, you’ll feel much safer about going into a club with nightkey than one with just bouncers, and there’s at least two in Canberra now.

Anyone can tell you that underage drinking and violent alcohol fueled behaviour is a serious problem but a club owner will tell you how serious this is for them: the violence against staff, the damage to premises and reputation and the prospect of fines and suspension/cancelling of your liquor licence (ie close your business) if you are found with underage drinkers or serving intoxicated persons.

This is a problem they face and its cost of doing business to manage these issues to implement systems such as nightkey.

A club owner has everyone working against him, the police, the AAT (which has been accused of being a police run court) and the public. If an underage drinker is found on the premises the owner won’t know about it till the court date, which could be months later. The club owner can’t find out who the person was, what they looked like etc they unfortunately turn up at court in the hope to disprove the police’ assertions and ultimately get ambushed. Without evidence the club owner is at the mercy of the police/AAT.

If (a big if) the police co-operate they can eliminate the licencee from their investigations by accessing the logs of nightkey.

Underage drinkers know the score, they use fake id or other people’s id to get into a club and if asked to show id by the police they refuse (perhaps thinking they’ll be caught with fake id) but also frustrating the club owner as they now need to prove they checked their ID. The burden is on the licencee to prove they believed the person is 18 or over. A bit of a joke really so clubs are always at the mercy of the police should they want to put pressure on any club.

As for the sign it is there to comply with the privacy act, its not a contract to sell your details. The sign will tell you the information you need to know about their compliance with the privacy act.

Comments made by civil libertarians sounded like they got their information from the journalist so the journo had a more juicy sounding story. I don’t think they even knew about nightkey.

Staff can’t access the patron’s details at all, polic can. The log allows a person to enter based on a fingerprint scan to 300 digit PIN number, so they are vetted and allowed to enter. Read their website, its also where you can access you own details. Why shouldn’t club use this information to help manager their business and the experience for their customers better? Its no different to a staff member remembering you and doing the same, exactly the same checks and balances apply.

Sultans should be lauded for implementing a system that makes life much easier for legitimate customers and discourages violence, underage drinkers and drug dealers. Sure, it won’t stop the troublemakers and needs to keep the right checks and balances in place; as its way better than doing nothing at all.

Riot-act is anger therapy for people whose opinions are not respected.

SgtChaos SgtChaos 10:57 pm 24 Sep 08

I believe that the reason the finger printing and scanning of IDs was brought in was to decrease the risk of trouble inside sultans and also to prevent under age people coming onto the premises, as sultans has already recieved a $2000 fine and maybe others.

This also prevents damage being done on the premises by identifing the people causing the trouble and guarantees that they will not be allowed to return to the club untill management allows

The indentifaction is used to show the security/operator wether the person is allowed back in.

It would seem the management of sultans are attempting to change the landscape in Canberra well at least Sultans, attempting to offer a safer venue or at least attempting to be able to identify people who upset others who are out for a good time.

The Canberra Times Paper reports “No finger prints are kept, only used to generate a digital indentifed number for the patron” , effectifly creating a digital PIN number like an ATM Card.

Again as the Canberra Times Paper mentioned “The address is not available to the users of thee Machines or Management” as the details are kept off site and can only be retrived if an incident is reported and then goes to the police directly.

So whats all the fuss about a club introduces a device ie.ID scanner which by the way as i understand it from my own investigation has been used in Western Australia for 3 years and at one club which have 4000 patrons go through their doors each Sat.night, and simular devices are used on the Gold Coast and in Sydney

The patrons are registered first and on each other visit, only have to rescan their finger to gain access ie, no id required. Wow no more having to spend time trying to pull your id from your wallet and less time standing outside on those cold nights once your already registered. And for the ladies always taking sweet ass time trying to find things in thier bags.

p1 p1 10:41 am 24 Sep 08

Sorry, I missed this one……They wouldn’t be bound to pay anything, that is pure bollocks

I think you also missed these words in the post,

If this were the case…

He was trying to draw attention to the fact that it was “bollocks”

vg vg 12:45 pm 23 Sep 08

“They are reliant on most people been ignorant and thinking the sign gives the store legal power. If this were the case I could in theory put up a sign on my front yard stating that anyone who steps on my driveway needs to pay a driveway users fee, and technically they would be legally bound to do so.”

Sorry, I missed this one. That is also rubbish. There is tacit consent for someone to come on to your property to knock on your door etc etc. Same applies as to using your driveway.

They wouldn’t be bound to pay anything, that is pure bollocks

vg vg 12:42 pm 23 Sep 08

“Technically they can detain you until police arrive if they have reasonable grounds to suspect you have stolen something (refusing a bag check I don’t think would count as reasonable grounds) but good luck truely enforcing that, as they just as likely to end up in court themselves.”

Again incorrect. They can detain until the Police arrive if they see you committing an offence. ‘Reasonable grounds to suspect’ applies to Police officers (s212 CA 1900). A person who is not a Police officer can arrest if they BELIEVE, on reasonable grounds, that a person is committing or has just committed an offence.

If you aren’t sure don’t offer your opinion, it is a very dangerous area to get yourself into

Granny Granny 12:15 pm 23 Sep 08

harvyk1 said :

If this were the case I could in theory put up a sign on my front yard stating that anyone who steps on my driveway needs to pay a driveway users fee, and technically they would be legally bound to do so.

I am going to try this and see if it works!

*hehe*

Matto Matto 12:03 pm 23 Sep 08

I’m going for the three post nutbag status. Fingers crossed.

Matto Matto 12:02 pm 23 Sep 08

tylersmayhem said :

It’s quite strange actually that us as Aussies allow this kind of “bag check agreement” to enter grocery stores. I’ve seen a lot of the world, and I’ve never come across is anywhere other than here. When I tell mates overseas, they shake their heads and can’t believe it.

We were once a penal colony. Hang on, did we ever stop?????? 😉

Matto Matto 12:00 pm 23 Sep 08

harvyk1 said :

A business, has the right to refuse entry to any person, technically for any reason they like, as the business typically owns (or at least leases) the private property which it’s located on. It’s the same as you can refuse anyone you like entry into your own home. However they do need to make sure it’s a good one otherwise they will have the wrath of anti-discrimination boards come down onto them.

As for a sign stating that something must happen eg wollies stating they will check your bags on exit, is not legally binding. Technically they can detain you until police arrive if they have reasonable grounds to suspect you have stolen something (refusing a bag check I don’t think would count as reasonable grounds) but good luck truely enforcing that, as they just as likely to end up in court themselves. They can not do something like check your bags without you either been verbally informed of the store policy on entry (even then their word against yours) or have you actually sign a contract on entry to the store.

They are reliant on most people been ignorant and thinking the sign gives the store legal power. If this were the case I could in theory put up a sign on my front yard stating that anyone who steps on my driveway needs to pay a driveway users fee, and technically they would be legally bound to do so.

How ignorant I have been. Or maybe just not wanting to cause a scene.
As far as Sultan’s goes, and being out of the clubbing scene, I’m sure there are finer establishments in the city that are worth dropping the RiotACT posting/I mean hard earned dollar in. If we’re all so afraid that our info will be “out there” don’t go.

tylersmayhem tylersmayhem 11:54 am 23 Sep 08

It’s quite strange actually that us as Aussies allow this kind of “bag check agreement” to enter grocery stores. I’ve seen a lot of the world, and I’ve never come across is anywhere other than here. When I tell mates overseas, they shake their heads and can’t believe it.

harvyk1 harvyk1 11:31 am 23 Sep 08

A business, has the right to refuse entry to any person, technically for any reason they like, as the business typically owns (or at least leases) the private property which it’s located on. It’s the same as you can refuse anyone you like entry into your own home. However they do need to make sure it’s a good one otherwise they will have the wrath of anti-discrimination boards come down onto them.

As for a sign stating that something must happen eg wollies stating they will check your bags on exit, is not legally binding. Technically they can detain you until police arrive if they have reasonable grounds to suspect you have stolen something (refusing a bag check I don’t think would count as reasonable grounds) but good luck truely enforcing that, as they just as likely to end up in court themselves. They can not do something like check your bags without you either been verbally informed of the store policy on entry (even then their word against yours) or have you actually sign a contract on entry to the store.

They are reliant on most people been ignorant and thinking the sign gives the store legal power. If this were the case I could in theory put up a sign on my front yard stating that anyone who steps on my driveway needs to pay a driveway users fee, and technically they would be legally bound to do so.

tylersmayhem tylersmayhem 8:28 am 23 Sep 08

You can find me in the club, bottle full of bub

…or a pocket full of bud?!

Nukezone Nukezone 1:03 am 23 Sep 08

You can find me in the club, bottle full of bub

Davo111 Davo111 11:58 pm 22 Sep 08

I gather you’re a fan of the place?

vg vg 11:46 pm 22 Sep 08

tylersmayhem said :

Is it legal for them to refuse me entrance if I don’t allow them to collect this personal data?

Yeah Granny, I’m pretty sure it is. Probably similar to the condition of entry to Woolies is allowing them to search your bag on the way out.

Legal to refuse you entry….yes
Woolies have the power to search your bags on the way out…..no they don’t. Don’t believe me, next time you go to leave a major dept store or supermarket and they ask to check your bag say no and walk out. They won’t and can’t stop you unless they have seen you pinch something.

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