One of Australia's biggest mistakes claims Canberra is "a huge mistake"

Neanderthalsis

None of the above, and as far as literacy goes who made you the professor? I don’t drink chard or watch neighbours, home and away ever, Is Chopper Reid one of your buddies sunshine?

Justbands As for higher standard of education, I don’t think so, when my kids moved here they could not believe how rude and cheeky the other kids were to teachers, as for the air well, there are more hayfever, asthama suffers here, the water here is not as clean as Sydney, that’s why hair is clingy here, also commuting here is shocking by public transport, yes I do have a car here in Canberra, cannot do without it, and when one wants to go to the airport or railway station, you have to ask a friend or get an expensive taxi, also the beaches do not cost, everything costs in Canberra, and as far as higher paid jobs they are mostly public servents, private enterprise pays lousy wages, I should know.

toriness, I’m confused with whom Lindsay was replying to (key players). Was it you and me or non Canberra folk. Besides the fact that that nothing can be changed anyway.

Howard got two things right. The guns buy back and the GST. Keating was an arrogant pr!*k. May they both predecease me that I may dance on their graves. I have developed a degree of admiration for Fraser, post parliament. He speaks sense, not spin.

I have been Sydneycentric all my life, and Melbourne was a much derided unknown. Sydney was well known, an easy drive, and rellies on tap.

Last year I went to the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne. What a revelation! Thoroughly enjoyed myself, a quantum leap upward from Sydney, and a deep realisation on returning to Canberra of how the other half live.

We have Another Country Town.

Excerpt from a speech by Lindsay Tanner today which I’m sure will provide you with the huge sigh of relief as it did me (joke):

Canberra as the nation’s capital
No doubt you will have seen recent comments questioning Canberra’s suitability as Australia’s national capital.

As key players in the Canberra property sector, I think I can safely assume that you don’t share these concerns.

Rightly or wrongly, Canberra is now firmly established as our national capital, and I believe it is a capital city of which Australians can be proud.

Irrespective of debates about Canberra and Parliament House, the Government has no intention of changing that situation.

Every other European/First World country managed to get their ‘suspected of training with terrorists’ prisoners back within weeks. We were the only ones that left our citizen to rot for years, and agreed to let another country put him on trial – in their country, even tho he had never committed a crime there.

governments are supposed to stick up for their citizens against other governments, not just roll over and let them do whatever they want. If that is now a lefty ideal, then we are in big trouble.

As a parent, I absolutely love living here. Name another major city where you can whip to your kid’s school, watch their assembly, and pop back to work within an hour? Or get from the suburbs into the city in under 30 minutes in peak hour? Canberra has most of the amenities of a big city (excluding really good clothes shopping) combined with the convenience and community spirit of a country town. We have gorgeous snow within two hours, and gorgeous beaches in the other direction. The crime rates are low – I actually feel pretty safe here compared to living in Melbourne. There are more restaurants per capita than any other city in Australia (I read this somewhere once). The people here are really nice … it is hard to initially ‘break in’ to the social scene, but once you have a good group of friends, it is easy to quickly develop friendships and socialise, because everyone lives in close proximity! Okay – it may not be a ‘thrill-a-minute tourist destination or have the ‘wow’ factor of Sydney/Melbourne/Brisvegas … but living here is just wonderful – at this stage of life anyway. Every time I drive through a Melbourne/Sydney/Brissy peak hour I thank my lucky stars that I live in Canberra. Maybe Mr Keating just didn’t stay for long enoguh to appreciate these factors.

sepi said :

David Hicks thought Howard did a great job.

David Hicks also trained with a known terrorist organisation, and was outside the country when captured.

I know people here love to bag Howard, but don’t forget that more than 98% of Australians are not tree-hugging lefty Canberrans.

“Sydney has beachers, great transport, top specialists, the Opera House, great markets,shopping cheaper than Canberra, a veriaty of shops, warmer weather, do I need to go on? Ok there is much more to do in Sydney, and yes I hope to leave Canberra as it is boring”

Yes, it has those things….we have other things….higher standards of education, cleaner air & water, shorter commute times, higher paid jobs, lots of green space, a beautiful lake, a fitter, healthier population that lives longer & more.

Horses for courses.

I loved Keating when he was PM, he just leaves me feeling sad for him nowadays…he needs to drop out of the media spotlight gracefully.

And the Sydney beaches and opera house are gorgeous= but really – how often does anyone go to the opera house, and who can afford to live that close to the beach?

There is plenty on in Canberra, you just have to actually look out for what is on, and plan to go to events. Most of the plays and dance performances etc that go to syd/melb come here too, they just stay for 3 days or a week, rather than a long season – so you have to actually plan and book, not just rock into town to see what’s on.

If you actually make any effort at all there is stacks to do in Canberra. You do need to read the paper to see what is happening, and you need a car also.

but if you wander into civic expecting to find stuff to do you will be disappointed. Canberra is not syd/melb, so if you keep acting as if it is, you will lose out. but if you take on the canberra lifestyle a bit of making an effort to see what is happening each week, ask around what people are doing, and boo

David Hicks thought Howard did a great job.

el said :

Funky1 said :

So why didn’t you ever take your life into your own hands – AND MOVE AWAY!
Why live a mediocre existence when there is so much more to life??

That’s exactly what I did, champ.

Please use some more BLOCK CAPS, EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!1!!1!, and question marks NEXT TIME, to expose to us your true genius. Thanks.

Jesus, for some of you it’s as if anyone who dares to criticize Canberra just insulted your girlfriend. No need to take it so personally.

I know it’s an amazing concept, but people enjoy living in different cities for different reasons.

So where does it say I CAN’T USE CAPITALS IN MY POST?????? (or multiple question marks)
I didn’t realise there was a Styleguide on how to post correctly so as not to offend anyone.

maybe I should just type without any form of punctuation or use of capitals or anything else that may show feelings or self expression
would that be better

oh and your welcome

cleo said :

I thought Paul Keating was great, Howard would not live in Canberra, that’s how much he liked it, Sydney has beachers, great transport, top specialists, the Opera House, great markets,shopping cheaper than Canberra, a veriaty of shops, warmer weather, do I need to go on? Ok there is much more to do in Sydney, and yes I hope to leave Canberra as it is boring.

And a lower standard of literacy too…

Honestly, any city/town is what you make of it. Whether it has 400 people or 4 000 000 people, you make your own enjoyment and life.

If you move to canberra from the “big smoke” of Sydney or Melbourne to take up a job as a non-descript petty bureaucrat in some minor department and live your life in a cubicle farm from 9-5 before going home to your 2 bedroom flat and watching Neighbours and Home and Away, mixing only with other faceless PS cronies as you drink a single glass of bad Chardy at a bar after work on friday; do your shopping at a soul-less Westfield mall, never venture beyond Manuka, whinge that Hannah Montana/pink or Paris Hilton never comes here, of course it will appear boring.

As Chopper would say, harden the #$*%# up sunshine.

Funky1 said :

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Howard was really good. He took this country to a new level of economic prosperity, and his human rights record was excellent.

So who’s doing a but of fishing then???

I think he did a good job, and for over ten years so did a lot of other Australians.

2604 said :

And if you’ve left, why hang around in a forum which is dedicated to discussions about Canberra, moaning about the place? The city is obviously interesting enough to keep you posting here.

I do beg your pardon. I didn’t realise geographical location suddenly precluded me from posting here, even though I’ve been lurking/posting on and off for the last five years. Heaven forbid I post something on-topic in a discussion about a has-been politician that also clearly doesn’t like Canberra.

Can you please point out where I was ‘moaning about the place’? The moaning would seem to be limited to a few others here.

If only I had a dollar for every person who:
(a) moves to Canberra from Sydney/Melbourne and then complains that it isn’t Sydney/Melbourne;
(b) moves to Canberra and then complains that it doesn’t have the same nightlife/cultural activities as cites that are ten times bigger; and
(c) complains about Canberra being boring despite never having lived anywhere else.

Seriously, if you don’t like it, why not leave? And if you’ve left, why hang around in a forum which is dedicated to discussions about Canberra, moaning about the place? The city is obviously interesting enough to keep you posting here.

To people overseas their first thought is Sydney, eg; Bondi Beach, it’s what you would call a ‘Micky Mouse’ town Canberra that is,cold no soul, false.

I thought Paul Keating was great, Howard would not live in Canberra, that’s how much he liked it, Sydney has beachers, great transport, top specialists, the Opera House, great markets,shopping cheaper than Canberra, a veriaty of shops, warmer weather, do I need to go on? Ok there is much more to do in Sydney, and yes I hope to leave Canberra as it is boring.

Funky1 said :

So why didn’t you ever take your life into your own hands – AND MOVE AWAY!
Why live a mediocre existence when there is so much more to life??

That’s exactly what I did, champ.

Please use some more BLOCK CAPS, EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!1!!1!, and question marks NEXT TIME, to expose to us your true genius. Thanks.

Jesus, for some of you it’s as if anyone who dares to criticize Canberra just insulted your girlfriend. No need to take it so personally.

I know it’s an amazing concept, but people enjoy living in different cities for different reasons.

el said :

Granny said :

From Nalliah to Keating … people coming from outside of Canberra just don’t get it. Their loss.

Not necessarily. I was born in Canberra, and hate the place.

So why didn’t you ever take your life into your own hands – AND MOVE AWAY!
Why live a mediocre existence when there is so much more to life??

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Howard was really good. He took this country to a new level of economic prosperity, and his human rights record was excellent.

So who’s doing a but of fishing then???

Worst PM!

I think Rudd has made a good claim to that title. Have a look at his latest effort.

Totally outrageous and another step towards his communist utopia.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/fat-cats-snuff-out-criticism-of-rudd-government-programs/story-e6freuzr-1225791117606

The above story totally ignored by our left wing ABC.

Takeaway? Didn’t his little Dutch trolly-dolly keep look after him while he was here?

Sydney is full of life, wouldn’t call it beautiful though.

One could also describe a petri dish teeming with bacteria as “full of life”.

Worst PM!

I wasn’t asleep from 1996-2007, sorry that you were (well actually, lucky you)!

Howard was really good. He took this country to a new level of economic prosperity, and his human rights record was excellent.

what is amusing is the amount of people saying keating is an irrelevant has-been – but are still having a little tanty at his comments, hmm..

I always thought Howard was the worst Prime Minister …

Keating, flamboyant, outspoken and often incorrect .. but charismatic. I don’t think they’ll be making a musical about Howard (or Rudd) anytime soon..

cleo said :

I’m with Keating, always wondered why Canberra was chosen, as Canberra rarely gets a mention, where as Sydney is a beautiful city, full of life.

Sydney is full of life, wouldn’t call it beautiful though.

Pandy said :

who wants to live in the slums and traffic of Sydney or Melbourne. BTW Melbourne has shite beaches, compared to the South Coast.

+1

Complain until they leave? Bull. This city has grown over 100,000 since I was here 1st. many people I know, when asked said they will never leave as who wants to live in the slums and traffic of Sydney or Melbourne. BTW Melbourne has shite beaches, compared to the South Coast.

I admit, I hated Canberra… but then I got into ‘Bundah, where I found out that Canberra went further south than Belconnen and Gungahlin

I’m with Keating, always wondered why Canberra was chosen, as Canberra rarely gets a mention, where as Sydney is a beautiful city, full of life.

Perhaps what we need is to reduce public service working hours (even further), have gay and alternative festivals every weekend, have free beer, art and music on the street every night, have buses from from everywhere to everywhere every minute, and subsidise the cost of housing.

And people in this town will still whinge.

Nah, I’d be quite happy. The multicultural and fringe festivals made the city come alive. Much better than wasting millions on sculptures of questionable artistic merit.

I complain, not for the sake of it, but because I know Canberra can do better. The attitude here is that “if you don’t like it, leave”. Fair enough, but you’ll lose plenty of very good people who will never come back (I know many already who have left), and have to put up with generations of people to come who get Canberra PS jobs and then complain until they leave.

Gosh – how dare ANU fail to provide a multitude of distractions from study. Nothing at all to do except…you know…your degree?

That was my reasoning behind coming here. However, I’ve since discovered that like many people I work best when there’s a lot going on and I’m busy. I do not feel like studying at 9pm on a Friday, I feel like going out.

Go to Melbourne George D. Lots of violence in the city each weekend to keep you hoppy.

Why would I need that? I can go into Civic on a weekend if I wanted to get assaulted by drunk munters.

Paul Keating says something.

Failed PM, failed husband and failed public figure. It doesn’t get much sadder when they become attention whores.

Fraser’s biggest claim to fame was his trousers, or lack thereof. Having said that I love Canberra haters. Stay away and leave more room for me and mine, and enjoy your daily 4hr commutes in Sydney. It would be a cosmopolitan place if you could get anywhere in less than an hour

Go to Melbourne George D. Lots of violence in the city each weekend to keep you hoppy.

Clown Killer said :

Perhaps I have been sabotaged by the randomness of satellite communications. I blame the Government!

I blame global warming.

George D said :

He’s absolutely right. I’ve been here three years (I’m doing a post-grad degree at the ANU – I wish I’d enrolled in a city with a pulse), and it seems to be getting quieter, believe it or not.

Gosh – how dare ANU fail to provide a multitude of distractions from study. Nothing at all to do except…you know…your degree?

Special G said :

Most people who don’t like Canberra are those who don’t know how to make fun for themselves. They sit around waiting for fun to happen around them and then get involved. These types of people will be bored anywhere and most likely whinge about it as well.

+1

Perhaps what we need is to reduce public service working hours (even further), have gay and alternative festivals every weekend, have free beer, art and music on the street every night, have buses from from everywhere to everywhere every minute, and subsidise the cost of housing.

And people in this town will still whinge.

Hmm … missing text and out of context repetitions of … Caqnberra as a place to live, to raise a family, to do business, to enjoy life? (a quick way to spot a wanker in my book is someone who wants to argue the point of history).

Perhaps I have been sabotaged by the randomness of satellite communications. I blame the Government!

I seriously don’t get the big hang-up about this. Sure there’s the emotive bit with Keating and Fraser in the mix (one was a nice guy who did the job but will be remembered for losing his daks, and the other was a smart-arse who effectively restructured the nation’s economy to bring us into the 20th century – and from me that’s about as much praise as I can give him).

Canberra as the nations Capital: Mistake? Possibly. Other options? Not many. What we’ve got? It works, so in my book, jobs right. If there’s a fault it all this, it’s possibly the assumption that perhaps decisions made by our predecessors were wrong with the 20-20 vision of hindsight (a quick way to spot a wanker in my book is someone who wants to argue the point of history).

Canberra as a place to live, to raise your family, to do business, to enjoy life? (a quick way to spot a wanker in my book is someone who wants to argue the point of history).

Canberra as a place to live, to raise your family, to do business, to enjoy life? Yes. Yes. Yes and Yes. Dont get me wrong, there’s other fun and exciting places to visit, see, make money and live in, buts its horses for courses. Don’t like it? Leave. Didn’t understand it? Who cares. Hate it? Build a bridge.

Granny said :

From Nalliah to Keating … people coming from outside of Canberra just don’t get it. Their loss.

Not necessarily. I was born in Canberra, and hate the place.

Income Tax Act 1942 was just part of my Year 12 Modern History course (wasn’t it part of yours?)

Can’t say I did history in year 12. Is “Modern History” similar to current events? Or less current then that, but not as old as actually history? 🙂

Most people who don’t like Canberra are those who don’t know how to make fun for themselves. They sit around waiting for fun to happen around them and then get involved. These types of people will be bored anywhere and most likely whinge about it as well.

Canberra’s the capital we had to have.

If anything was a mistake in Australia, it was him being Prime Minister all those years ago and the biggest hypocrite on earth. Such a d head!

I can understand Malcolm Fraser’s frustration with Parliament House. The installation of all the security barriers and bollards now makes the building more like a fortress and less like the people’s house (even though I still find the building fascinating design-wise). These days, the security guards won’t let you walk to the top of the roof at night to take in the view. It’s such a pity. I still reckon they should put public BBQs on the grassy slopes – that would be very Australian.

On the side-topic of PJK’s way with words, he delivered a beautiful eulogy at Geoffrey Tozer’s funeral recently. I’m no connisseur of classical music so I can’t say for sure that I know Geoffrey Tozer’s work – he’s a renowned pianist, and to make ends meet he taught many years in Canberra. Anyway PJK was very passionate about Mr Tozer and his artistic endeavour. The eulogy worth a read. It’s quite moving. In a way it tells you as much about PJK’s life passions as Mr Tozer’s.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Are you studying first year law or something, skidbladnir.

Hell no, I hate lawyers. I support software for my crust, currently studying a B. Business (Info Systems and Economics) and getting my for the hell of it.
Income Tax Act 1942 was just part of my Year 12 Modern History course (wasn’t it part of yours?), but I’d still call it a much bigger national mistake than either Canberra or Keating.
A major part of Keating’s (and every other Federal MP since WWII) underlying power derives from that one Act of Parliament establishing the status quo.

(Besides, since ignorance of the law is rarely an excuse for committing crimes, you might as well do some research to find a valid excuse…)

Peter Costello was a snake. I’m glad to see he crashed and burned. Made of the same mould as Howard except without a spine and apparently even more transparent. Howard somehow, god knows how, managed to fool a critical mass. Costello was never in danger of causing such a catastrophe, thankfully.

Howard was fun to watch when he finally did go down because he, like all these kinds of sociopaths, still was deluded enough to believe that he was still popular and “loved”. But he can still very much class his terms as a success. So short term pain is probably drowned out by long term self congratulation there. Costello was hilarious because he had no such luck. Continually beaten down by everybody, all the fame he could claim was how well he rode honest John’s coat tails.

Disclaimer: I hold similar distain for most politicians. The longer they stand, the more I hear about them and the less I tend to like them.

Paul Keating’s parents made a great mistake not rubbering up on that fateful night.

Keating was hilarious. I enjoyed watching him and Peter Costello best out of anyone in Parliament.

Are you studying first year law or something, skidbladnir? Lately it seems like whatever we’re talking about, you find a way to start name-dropping legislation.

Voting in Paul Keating as Prime Minister was a bigger mistake than making Canberra its capital.

There are people who expect life to come to them, and then there are people who go out and live life and find things to do. There is plenty to do in Canberra. I’ve never been so busy in my life, and yes – I have lived in Sydney.

Only idiots voted for him, so I reckon only idiots will care what he says. These idiots will stay away and leave us alone. I moved here from Brisbane and love it – let him carry on like the blow hard he is.

He’s absolutely right. I’ve been here three years (I’m doing a post-grad degree at the ANU – I wish I’d enrolled in a city with a pulse), and it seems to be getting quieter, believe it or not.

I heard they just canned the Fringe entirely. The one week of the year in which you went out into the streets and felt like the city was alive. (hordes of munters spewing out from Mooseheads doesn’t exactly count. Good one.

No newbie #16 I wasn’t.

You might have been in primary school though 🙂

If Keating didn’t come up with the odd caustic comment, he would have died a quiet death in the media years ago. His tactics in Parliament against an insipid oppposition might have been popular for some in the 80’s and early 90’s but now he’s just another grey haired has-been. He never actually lived here, like Howard, he only flew in when he had to. He has no idea about the ‘real’ Canberra. I have to say Canberra is one of the best planned capitals in the world! What’s even better is that we can all have a say in how the place is developed into the future … we just have to get off our arses and join in community consultation processes.

For ex Prime Ministers they don’t know their history that well. Sure Sydney or Melborune would have made great capitals but no one could make a decision as to which. So it was no mistake. What probably is a mistake is how the city has developed and evolved, mainly due to interference from politicians.

From Nalliah to Keating … people coming from outside of Canberra just don’t get it. Their loss.

Are we the only capital city in the world without an international airport?

Then people could fly in for the hookers, firecrackers and porn ….oh yeah we lost firecrackers 🙁

I love Canberra, but that’s because I’ve lived here most of my days and have quite an extensive social network… but for people coming from interstate… I understand what he’s saying… not the most exciting of places.

I too feel this way. But having lived in five other places for at least a year, I would rate Canberra as a much better place to assimilate with. Certainly better then most of Sydney.

I love Canberra, but that’s because I’ve lived here most of my days and have quite an extensive social network… but for people coming from interstate… I understand what he’s saying… not the most exciting of places.

Really? Canberra is one of Australia’s worst mistakes?
I’d put the lasting effect of the Commonwealth’s Income Tax Act 1942 (which put the Commonwealth first-in-line for income taxation and set it at such a level that it was politically impossible for States to collect income taxes on top of Commonwealth taxation levels) and the subsequent protection of its powers by the First and Second Uniform Tax Cases way up there as a major mistake…
One which kind of killed off true Australian Federalism in favour of a Commonwealth consolidation of powers.

Still having the States’ abilities to meet their own Constitutional responsibilities crippled and instead be conditionally dependent on a Commonwealth grants process (using Constitutional Section 96 instead of State income tax regimes), by exercising what was meant to be a temporary emergency power for World War Two seventy years after it was introduced is a bit of a major fuckup.

Grow some nuts people. So someones got a view on somthing. Big deal. I’ll bet a buck Keating and Fraser have forgoten more about Canberra than you lot have ever known.

Worst.PM.Ever.? Really? You were clearly in some kind of hibernatory period between 1996 and 2007.

The clock collecting undertaker still happily sucks on the public teat that Canberra provided to him.

Worst.PM.Ever. award shared with the insipid Fraser

Oh please. If he limited himself to ‘chinese restaurants in Manuka’ then of course he has a limited perspective of what canberra has to offer. Plus – canberra has developed a lot over the past 15 years, especially around the areas of Manuka and Kingston. Give me a break.

lula said :

The expectations placed on Canberra are like expecting a baby to go out and get a haircut and get a job.

Hahaha thats a great quote

Ahh PJK.. Always entertaining and ideas before his time- we miss you!

I have to say I agree, and Canberra continues to careen from one mistake to the next, but you have to admit we’re doing pretty bloody well considering this was a sheep paddock less that one hundred years ago. The expectations placed on Canberra are like expecting a baby to go out and get a haircut and get a job.

Say what you like about Keating, but seeing he was paid to bring attention to Hirst’s book via a public speaking engagement, he’s definately sucked in a fair bit of the greater unwashed.

Had I known he hated Canberra so much, I would’ve voted for him.

Unfortunately, every once in a while, former politicians of all parties like to crow up to the media. It’s like saying “Hey! Remember me?”

Once they are EX, they should ponder why they are EX and STAY EX.

This would assure them of their best place in history and potentially earn them the title of ‘statesman’.

What did Paul Whatshisname do again?

Who cares what an old has been like Keating thinks?

niftydog said :

Paul Keating = attention whore. Ignore him and he’ll go away… until one of his chums has another book launch.

+1

And as for Fraser bagging out APH, I think we have one of the most outstanding seats of government in the world and a building to be truly proud of.

no one pays any attention to him except SMH love reporting everything he says because he’s so sydney-centric. i thought he said it had to be sydney because it was australia’s ‘only world class city’. yawn yawn yawn.

Can’t wait till his next visit.

I’ll supply the rotten fruit 😉

Oh come on.

He said ‘great mistake’. That’s better than say a big mistake, or the worst mistake of someone’s life isn’t it?

We thrive on being outraged don’t we?

Paul Keating = attention whore. Ignore him and he’ll go away… until one of his chums has another book launch.

No matter where the national capital is, the politicians would still have to live in motels and eat take-away food.

Can’t please everyone: they’d always find something to complain about.