Police strategic plan for 2008-11

yeah – but from the ‘concerned citizen’ point of view, you ring the police to report something.

Person on the other end of the phone is rude and or dismissive.

You don’t get the impression anything is done, and you decide not to bother ringing in future.

bigred said :

Hey Headbonus when I rang the plod about some dude who could hardly walk in the IGA buying a slab then jumping in his work van (supplied by a major motor parts distributor) one Sunday night I was given the cold shoulder.

So what exactly did you tell the Police? That you saw a guy who could hardly walk get in a car at IGA X and then drive off? Did you tell them the rego and what direction the car headed or just report that you saw a drunk guy get in a car at X location? Do you know exactly what the Police were doing elsewhere at the time to not despatch a car? Have you heard of the priority system Police use. Man A rings at 0810 and says he saw a drunk guy get into a car, woman B also rings at 0810 and says she is being assaulted by her husband. Where should all the Police go? How many cars in any given area do you think there are to respond to an incident?

On the other hand how do you know no Police car attended? Did you follow the guy home? Did an unmarked traffic car attend the area to look for the guy? It would be an incident where there would be no need to attend and actually speak with the person who rang up

So many questions

Yes, the cold shoulder. In my experience they didn’t dispatch a car.

No way I would do it now,but as a young broke teenager needing to get home I admit to pushing the drink driving boundaries a bit.

And i think even four drinks could put you over.

bigred said :

Hey Headbonus when I rang the plod about some dude who could hardly walk in the IGA buying a slab then jumping in his work van (supplied by a major motor parts distributor) one Sunday night I was given the cold shoulder.

The cold shoulder? In my experience, they’ll dispatch a car in that situation if one is available.

Police numbers are reasonably good at the moment. If you **REALLY** want to get a good idea of how many marked cars are driving around each day, then I suggest you stand at a busy intersection on Northbourne Avenue or any other main arterial road for a full day. I suspect you would be surprised how often you did see a car go past. Same goes for any of our local suburban shopping centres.

Just because you didn’t see them on your route home every day, doesn’t mean they aren’t nearby. Probability alone would rule out seeing them on a regular basis.

Remember, it’s our community too. 🙂

Hi Fabforty – as I have said many times before, there is nothing so ex as an ex-copper. But to humour you and to educate readers of this forum, perhaps you could enlighten us by answering some questions? Exactly what equipment should our Police have that is not currently available to them? How can Police management build a new Belconnen Police Station unless the ACT Govt appropriates the funds? BTW you do know a new station will be built over the next 18 months? How can management change the burden placed on Police re dealing with the mentally ill unless the Govt provides adequate funding for crisis care, support, facilities etc?

By your tone I would be willing to bet you were one of the rusted on, work place whingers the AFP and ACT Policing are well rid of. Fortunately the vast majority of our Police are not like you – hence the reason the job still gets done.

Hey Headbonus when I rang the plod about some dude who could hardly walk in the IGA buying a slab then jumping in his work van (supplied by a major motor parts distributor) one Sunday night I was given the cold shoulder.

sepi said :

it isn’t picking on the police to say there aren’t enough of them.

I totally agree Sepi. The community should be outraged at our level of police presence. As long as the outrage is channeled in the right direction.

Angry henry wrote: “I know someone that has been drink-driving in Canberra since the 70’s, the first time he was caught was in 2001.”

When did you become aware of this Henry ( or should I call you Richard Cranium?) A phone call to Police may have saved some innocent person’s life. No you keep quiet about for 30 years. Good citizen mate. Real good bloke. Glad the Police can rely on people like you for help…….Oh that’s right, according to you and your ilk you don’t have any responsibility at all to report crime or assist Police, just bag them. Please leave Canberra soon and take your mates with you.

it isn’t picking on the police to say there aren’t enough of them.

I think the AFP also needs a strategic plan about how it is going to fulfil its responsibilities to its members.

How about:

We will provide you with adequate equipment to ensure your safety and ability to carry out your job properly

We wont expect you to work in buildings that would be condemned if any other agency was asked to occupy it (anyone been at Belconnen Station recently ?)

We wont expect you to be psuedo mental health workers – because that’s not your job

We will ensure workplace bullies are dealt with properly

We will ensure there are more than 3 patrol cars to cover all of Belconnen and Gungahlin

I could go on…

Yes, I am a former AFP member. During my time I worked with some of the best people I have ever met. They put up with such adversity with humour, intelligence and sometimes pure guts.

But management just keep shafting them. And while the public are mostly appreciative and understanding you will always get the bleaters. Support your police, they are doing the best they can with what they have – which often is very little.

If there wasn’t drugs alcohol and nicotine it would probably be even better.

I’ll never give up alcohol though! 😉

vandam said :

But Canberrans are notorious for being the biggest whingers in Australia. And so we are in this situation where no matter what anyone or any business does, its never going to be good enough.

I agree our existence is a bit utopian but biggest whingers in Australia? I think you’ll find that whingers are everywhere.

It is a shame we just can’t have a bit of respect for other people and their property. If people took that line then I think our society would be a muich safer, happier place.

But there I go again, dreaming of a perfect world.

I know someone that has been drink-driving in Canberra since the 70’s, the first time he was caught was in 2001.

I don’t know how good or bad a job they do really but I find that fact pretty disturbing.

I also get concerned about the amount on break-ins that seem to occur in Canberra everyday (there have been several in my street over the course of the last two months) I go to work wondering what I’m going to come home to.

I undetstand that they can’t be omnipotent but if they at least try to appear to be perhaps that will act as a dterrent and ease some of the public concern?!?!

You people are the ones that make complaints to Police. The Police register these complaints and come up with band aid solutions such as these directions to keep the community happy.

If the coppers on the road in the firing line had it there way, they wouldn’t be going to homes or businesses to take reports of burglaries or thefts etc, they would be hunting the crooks and getting in their faces, locking them up before these things happened. They could also spend more time doing breath testing and enforcing traffic laws.

The fact is, Police don’t have time to target criminals. So they become reactive and wait for people to call. But Canberrans are notorious for being the biggest whingers in Australia. And so we are in this situation where no matter what anyone or any business does, its never going to be good enough.

We still have neighbournhood watch.

I like the little newsletter – it has stuff about school fetes and tree planting etc, as well as the crime stuff.

Exactly, Skidbladnir…

Security guards know what their rights are, but it’s not mandated by their firms that they are to apprehend people if it’s not within their capabilities…

There used to be a time when if you were caught drink driving your name and details would be published in the Canberra Times, this worked for years as it was an embarrassing lesson to people. This came to a stop (some overly sensitive, civil libertarian having a cry) and that is about the time that Neighbourhood watch was dissolved. I say bring back Neighbourhood watch. if there is any wrong doings in my neighbourhood i would like to know for my own peace of mind, my safety and the safety of others around me. I am not wanting roving bands of suburban vigilates, but moreso, being comfortable in the knowledge that there are people watching out for their neighbours.

Sure, but thats them acting in a citizen capacity, not as a corporate policy. 🙂

“Private security companies tend to interpret their position as:
Entering the premises would be involving themselves in and inflaming a situation they’re not trained to deal with, they don’t have arrest powers and will probably be put up for assault if they do damage to someone, and they’d be in public space if restrained (which they are not actually being paid to guard).”

If a security guard catches someone committing an offence they have the same arrest power as any citizen. They detain them until the Police arrive. If security staff don’t like that sort of thing (and its taught on day 1 of security ‘school’) then I’d suggest they’re working in the wrong industry.

They won’t have issues with assault charges if what they did was reasonable and proportionate to affect the arrest.

Years ago in Canberra there seemed to be a lot more police around.

Getting breathalysed was a common occurence.
Getting pulled over for speeding used to happen, by random police cars, not white vans.
I once got followed and then pulled over by police for picking up a girl hitchhiking (who I knew slightly).

For the last few years I have almost never see any police on the roads.

astrosapien said :

Skidbladnir said :

Their focus seems more on tactical policework, targetted response and crisis prevention. :\

I also note there isn’t a single mention of fighting corruption and only a few mentions of intelligence work, though building background data and community confidence.

@Astrosapien RE: security alarms and duress…

Thats basic SOP at a few security firms, but some places will call manager\owner on mobile or send a guard to confirm if no contact, and then relay the true positive result (confirmed duress) or suspected positive (“I can’t contact anybody, but the duress alarm has been hit three times now during business hours, and the alarm was serviced last week”) to police.
But they still get discounted as being clutter thanks to the people who report every alarm as a positive.
Which is terrific when your guard\s can only watch, get a description for later use, see where they go when they leave, and not actually restrain anyone.
I’d had guards sent to confirmed duress alarms left waiting onsite keeping an eye on people for over an hour for police, while members of staff were trying to calm down offenders after they’d assaulted staff and demanded money.
We finally got a callback from police after the guy had left site, asking if attendance was still needed.

Private security companies tend to interpret their position as:
Entering the premises would be involving themselves in and inflaming a situation they’re not trained to deal with, they don’t have arrest powers and will probably be put up for assault if they do damage to someone, and they’d be in public space if restrained (which they are not actually being paid to guard).

I agree with a lot of what your saying… Security guards are nowhere near trained enough to deal with duress alarms, whether they be false or legitimate, which is why the SOP was for police contact. They’re not supposed to intervene, and risk making the problem worse if they try to.

Regarding the fighting of corruption and things like that, that’s all well and good, but doesn’t do much for the average person on the street. For me it’s more about community policing than their anti-corruption work. I just think that it has been severely lacking over the years recently and more should be done to balance it all out.

Bring back neighborhood watch. if you want it to have better liaison with the ACT Police, ensure that one of the members is ex-police (if they are interested, of course)

There are many coppers that I knew when i was younger that I see around the traps on a day to day basis, and i am certain that they wouldn’t mind having an advisory role to assist in ensuring that the neighborhood is more secure.

They can assist in providing a better POC for everyday canberrans.

Skidbladnir said :

Their focus seems more on tactical policework, targetted response and crisis prevention. :\

I also note there isn’t a single mention of fighting corruption and only a few mentions of intelligence work, though building background data and community confidence.

@Astrosapien RE: security alarms and duress…

Thats basic SOP at a few security firms, but some places will call manager\owner on mobile or send a guard to confirm if no contact, and then relay the true positive result (confirmed duress) or suspected positive (“I can’t contact anybody, but the duress alarm has been hit three times now during business hours, and the alarm was serviced last week”) to police.
But they still get discounted as being clutter thanks to the people who report every alarm as a positive.
Which is terrific when your guard\s can only watch, get a description for later use, see where they go when they leave, and not actually restrain anyone.
I’d had guards sent to confirmed duress alarms left waiting onsite keeping an eye on people for over an hour for police, while members of staff were trying to calm down offenders after they’d assaulted staff and demanded money.
We finally got a callback from police after the guy had left site, asking if attendance was still needed.

Private security companies tend to interpret their position as:
Entering the premises would be involving themselves in and inflaming a situation they’re not trained to deal with, they don’t have arrest powers and will probably be put up for assault if they do damage to someone, and they’d be in public space if restrained (which they are not actually being paid to guard).

I agree with a lot of what your saying… Security guards are nowhere near trained enough to deal with duress alarms, whether they be false or legitimate, which is why the SOP was for police contact. They’re not supposed to intervene, and risk making the problem worse if they try to.

Regarding the fighting of corruption and things like that, that’s all well and good, but doesn’t do much for the average person on the street. For me it’s more about community policing than their anti-corruption work. I just think that it has been severely lacking over the years recently and more should be done to balance it all out.

Their focus seems more on tactical policework, targetted response and crisis prevention. :\

I also note there isn’t a single mention of fighting corruption and only a few mentions of intelligence work, though building background data and community confidence.

@Astrosapien RE: security alarms and duress…

Thats basic SOP at a few security firms, but some places will call manager\owner on mobile or send a guard to confirm if no contact, and then relay the true positive result (confirmed duress) or suspected positive (“I can’t contact anybody, but the duress alarm has been hit three times now during business hours, and the alarm was serviced last week”) to police.
But they still get discounted as being clutter thanks to the people who report every alarm as a positive.
Which is terrific when your guard\s can only watch, get a description for later use, see where they go when they leave, and not actually restrain anyone.
I’d had guards sent to confirmed duress alarms left waiting onsite keeping an eye on people for over an hour for police, while members of staff were trying to calm down offenders after they’d assaulted staff and demanded money.
We finally got a callback from police after the guy had left site, asking if attendance was still needed.

Private security companies tend to interpret their position as:
Entering the premises would be involving themselves in and inflaming a situation they’re not trained to deal with, they don’t have arrest powers and will probably be put up for assault if they do damage to someone, and they’d be in public space if restrained (which they are not actually being paid to guard).

astrosapien said :

All good

Love healthy discussions…

One of my parents still works for the Australian Federal Police so some of it is based on what they have told me in conversation, but it seems compounded with general observation…

I’m not everywhere at all times, which is true, but when you can go weeks without seeing a cop car on the roads, it’s kinda concerning…

What people probably don’t think of often with regards to not seeing police cars around is that you have big patrol zones and only a limited amount of cars.

For the sake of the example, let’s say there are 6 cars patrolling Woden zone. That’s 6 cars to cover about 33 suburbs. For police to be highly visible you’d have to increase numbers significantly to make a visible difference.

Adding to that example, if one of those cars is stuck at a death, one is locking someone up at the City watch house, and a couple of cars are at burgs or property damage jobs, it doesn’t leave many left, unfortunately.

All good

Love healthy discussions…

One of my parents still works for the Australian Federal Police so some of it is based on what they have told me in conversation, but it seems compounded with general observation…

I’m not everywhere at all times, which is true, but when you can go weeks without seeing a cop car on the roads, it’s kinda concerning…

astrosapien said :

Unfortunately I don’t feel that the police are doing a good enough job in the ACT.

Add to that a dangerous culture of Protective Service officers going around referring to themselves as cops

There is almost zero presence in the community. The white vans that check your speed will send you a fine with the AFP logo on it, but it is not manned by police officers, and it seems that the only time you see police officers on the street is when there is a group of them heading into the local mall for their lunch.

The last thing that I will say is to do with a comment I made above about the duress alarms. That was a few years ago, and I’m not sure if their attitudes have changed. I’m no longer in the security industry so I’m not sure if that information is still accurate today, but it was certainly the case for a good 3-4 year period a few years ago…

You didn’t really explain your very first comment, other than to say that Police don’t respond to alarms (which they do), Police numbers are incredibly low (are they? How do you know?), and that there is almost zero Police presence in the community (how do you know what the Police presence is? Are you everywhere at once?).

I’m not having a go at you, because I think it’s an interesting discussion. I just think you could’ve thought of a better argument as to why police aren’t doing a good enough job in the ACT.

Unfortunately I don’t feel that the police are doing a good enough job in the ACT.

I’m the son of a Canberra cop… In fact, both my parents were cops when I was born, so I have 100% pig blood in me…

😛

Anyways, it’s changed a lot over the years, and not necessarily for the better. About three or four years ago I worked for a back to base security firm. If a duress alarm came through, no matter whether it be from a private residence or a business, our standard operating procedures were to call the police. We were told time and time again that they would not attend because they had “been to too many false alarms”.

I think another issue, particularly in Canberra, is that because our community police force is part of the Commonwealth Federal Police we end up with a lot of our community police numbers being fudged. Police numbers are incredibly low, and only bolstered because they insist on adding the number of staff that are within the Protective Service. One dangerous issue with that is that at a glance the General Duties police officer’s uniform is exactly the same as a Protective Service uniform, with only the lapelles on the shoulders advising whether they GD or PS.

Add to that a dangerous culture of Protective Service officers going around referring to themselves as cops (which they aren’t. Legislation is in place that the PS officers are provided with when the join that advises them that it is against the law for them to refer to themselves as police officers, and doing so is actually “impersonating a police officer”, which they can in turn lose their jobs over) and we have a very messed up situation in the Nation’s Capital.

There is almost zero presence in the community. The white vans that check your speed will send you a fine with the AFP logo on it, but it is not manned by police officers, and it seems that the only time you see police officers on the street is when there is a group of them heading into the local mall for their lunch.

These are issues that I have raised with my family time and time again over the years and it is nice to finally know that there is a forum with which I can get this stuff off my chest.

The last thing that I will say is to do with a comment I made above about the duress alarms. That was a few years ago, and I’m not sure if their attitudes have changed. I’m no longer in the security industry so I’m not sure if that information is still accurate today, but it was certainly the case for a good 3-4 year period a few years ago…

And what is ‘other crime’ in neighbourhood watch??

Pandy, the point(s) you make are valid. Many years ago, when the Neighbourhood Watch program first started, a copper would turn up to each suburb meeting and give a rundown on crime in the area. That allowed NW members to get some idea of where the hotspots were, and the NW newsletters were able to provide valuable advice and stats to householders.

Then the coppers no longer attended meetings, and a couple of years ago, the crime stats were censored off the NW internet site at ACT Policing direction.

None of this is the fault of any individual copper – it all comes down to the lack of interest in genuine public engagement by the Policing hierarchy. I agree wholeheartedly with the points made by Jack Waterford in the Crimes over many years about the quality of AFP public relations (I don’t necessarily agree with some of the other claims by Jack, but his comments on PR are spot-on).

… and with Bargearse around, you won’t need one of those namby-pamby sandwich toasters…

OI get me two Chiko Rolls and a shitload of Dim Sims and don’t forget the soy sauce. Famous bargearse quote.

They have finally realised that no matter what a great job they are doing chasing serious crime, that if they fob off complaints from ordinary people (property damage, windows smashed in at night, noise complaints etc) then the community starts to lose faith.

I hope they have actually got some more police with which to respond to crimes, and they aren’t just going for the more visible presence to keep us happy.

Bring back phone books and fit ups I say.

More of Sgt Stone on the Bill..

or Bargearse!

They missed this one”

“-Because of the Privacy Act (BOTPA), we will not release anything about police numbers, response times, clearance rates, crimes in your suburb and anything else we damn well please. So move along nothing to see here.”

With you Thumper, had to be written by a pube. Not sure about the fit ups and phone books – methinks he jests. I reckon the cops generally do a bloody good job in some pretty crap circumstances. I’m just not sure what a long winded spout that basically says “we’re going to try and do a good job that the community is happy with” actually does to help them.

Madman said :

Looks good to me – I reckon the AFP do a top notch job in the ACT.
Far better then the NSW Police! (gestapo)

police everywhere are the same as you or I. there are the newbies who are over the top, old hands who are doing the right thing, and bad apples, great helpers etc. the people in the police force are first and foremost human beings, fraught with frailties and weaknesses.

They do the job that we don’t want to do. They uphold the law. in Canberra, they seem to actually care about the community, considering that they could be living next door….

The fact that differentiates the ACT police from other states is that they are publishing the directions that they feel will best serve the community.

Looks good to me – I reckon the AFP do a top notch job in the ACT.
Far better then the NSW Police! (gestapo)