Police Wrap - 12 December

Spideydog said :

And yes I do have a child… I would be asking government to implement tazers ASAP.

Tasers are more effective than pepper spray, for which the use involves causing significant pain to the recipient so they become compliant. But the pain lasts for hours after use, so long as there is residue in the eyes.

But they are not a non-lethal weapon.
Just less lethal than a bullet to the chest.

If it were my kid I would expect both a comprehensive police AND coronial enquiry. If my child was running around with knives and attacking police, I wouldn’t expect the best outcome. And yes I do have a child. Police members have families too and want to go home at night. I would be asking government to implement tazers ASAP.

I’ll pose the same question to you… What if one of those police members was your wife/husband/son/daughter and they didn’t fire and was stabbed and killed ?? “It’s OK, it’s in their job description to die for the community” ???? They have the right to defend themselves with the tools they are provided. They are equally accountable for their actions and must be transparent. So, to answer my question, what would you do if one of them was your family member and was killed by this youth, because they chose not to fire ??

tylersmayhem said :

I also completely doubt that a 15 year old boy was unaffected by capsicum spray. I think there are many questions that need to be answered – and sadly never will be. The final picture will be drawn by the police, FOR the police. Selling the picture the want for whatever political leverage possible.

For all those who fully support the action of the police in this case, what if it was your kid?

You come across as just plain anti-police and spruking conspiracy theories. Capsicum spary affects 80% of people 80% of the time, not including other factors, ie people on ICE are less affected and sometimes appear not at all affected, weather conditions, etc, etc.

Do you really think that these police officers came on shift ready to shoot someone. You paint the picture of “stuff the capsicum spray, lets just shoot him and we will rig our stories up later” M8 you really have some issues if that is what you think of Police. I do respect your right to an opinion, I just think that it is a little over the top.

Anyways the full story WILL come out after the coronial, regardless of your thoughts of conspiracy theories.

I also completely doubt that a 15 year old boy was unaffected by capsicum spray. I think there are many questions that need to be answered – and sadly never will be. The final picture will be drawn by the police, FOR the police. Selling the picture the want for whatever political leverage possible.

I understand the difficult decision that the police needed to make at the time, and that those involved will need to live with this for the rest of their lives – but I am also concerned that OUR police are becoming very US style in their approach and action. Next thing you know, they’ll walk up to your car with a finger on the trigger for RBT’s and checks – just like in the USA.

For all those who fully support the action of the police in this case, what if it was your kid?

he bloke I was with asked one of the policemen what was going on. Receiving no response, he asked if they’d shot someone. I shit you not, the bloke reached for his gun.

I’m surprised that your mate would ask a copper such things when there is clearly s**t going down man!

A well placed rubber bullet would’ve dropped the kid and he’d (probably) still be alive.

Amazing the think the Vic coppers are using a revolver which was patented 106 years ago and has remained unchanged since. I’m surprised they aren’t still driving around in T-Models since they’re actually 6 years more modern than the ’38 Special.

If the Vic cops had had tasers the victim would probably be still alive.

There’s a difference between that which you are instructed to do, and that which you’re given enough range time to actually achieve.

I think the point is that the Vic Police are better shots.

I thought all police were taught to aim for the centre of mass. I would have thought that Victorian police kill more people because they shoot more people.

Reminds me of a time I was walking along Laigon Street in Melbourne, and something must have gone down, because there were police swarming everywhere around a restaurant. The bloke I was with asked one of the policemen what was going on. Receiving no response, he asked if they’d shot someone. I shit you not, the bloke reached for his gun.

I had heard the reason victorian police kill more people is that they actually hit the centre of mass of their targets (as they’re supposed to).

#26 posted by Tooks

To clarify fir you Mr Assumptions – I have in fact had a knife pulled on me, as well as a gun (separate incidents – both in the US). Now you can also question that and say I’ve full of s**t, but that is up to you.

The Vic police have a well deserved bad name in history of questionable shootings – and I believe it is also in the police officers duty to avoid these confrontations. FFS, in this day and age, surely there are other options – other body armor that could be used against knives rather than shooting?!

Tooks said :

johnboy said :

Glocks don’t have safeties.

True. Plus I think VicPol still use .38 revolvers.

Yeah, Victorian coppers are still on revolvers, which don’t have safety switches anyway. They just require much more trigger pressure.

johnboy said :

But not one that gets flicked.

A safety is only there to stop an accidental discharge. Not a deliberate discharge.

The safeties on the Glock are all disengaged when the trigger is depressed correctly…the reasoning being that you are pulling the trigger…therefore you want to shoot at whatever you are pointing at.

Correct fire discipline means that you do not have your finger inside the trigger guard unless you think you need to shoot.

But not one that gets flicked.

Glocks don’t have safeties.

They have three. Pulling the trigger disengages them all.

A 15 year old is just as dangerous with knives, as a 40 year old. A decision to fire a pistol as someone would be the hardest and most horrible decision to EVER have to make for any ONE person and isn’t made lightly. It is always a last resort. To have 3-4 officers all come to the same horrible decision and fire, my opinion would be that it was a last resort for all those officers, to come to the same decision at the same time.

In these types of situations, you don’t have time to take well aimed shots, hence why you shoot for centre of seen mass, not in the arm or leg. The possibility of missing an arm or leg in those situations is very high. Remembering, this is an action of last resort and a decision made in a split second. It is quite easy for us armchair critics to analyse the incident after with all the time in the world, without the pressure.

My condolences to ALL involved in this incident.

It is always better to use the second can of capsicum spray before blowing away children.

I bet the officers involved are having a pretty difficult time coming to terms with what has happened.

I have nothing but respect for all the response guys who deal with these impossible situations with such regularity: from being first on the scene at accidents, dealing with the violent behaviour of overdosers that have just been narcanned to trying to protect the wider community when someone is off their meds or just their heads.

These are jobs that few people can hack in the long term.

johnboy said :

Glocks don’t have safeties.

True. Plus I think VicPol still use .38 revolvers.

Glocks don’t have safeties.

I’m also with Tooks on this one.

Count me in too.

Only thing I can’t figure out is why they wasted the second can of capsicum spay on the lad. It should have been time to flick off the saftey after the fist can was empty.

+1 Tooks.

Obviously coming from someone who has obviously never fired a handgun and has never had a knife pulled on him, let alone had someone run at him with one. I’m sure you’d be a crack shot, because it’s easy to hit a moving target in the leg when they’re trying to kill you. Ignorance at its finest.

Most fatal police shootings are extremely close range (about 1.5m from memory), indicating that the use of the firearm is the last resort (as it should be). Inevitably after a police shooting, some ignorant nob-ends will come out and say “but why didn’t they shoot him in the arm/leg/foot”. These are usually the same people that object to police having Tasers, which probably would’ve saved this kid’s life.

Exactly. So if a 15 year old attacks you with a couple of very large knives, hopefully police will be there to use whatever force they need to save your life.

Indeed, by forging the option to wound in the legs and go straight for the kill-shot. Great option. The kid wasn’t carrying to UZIs FFS!

Exactly. So if a 15 year old attacks you with a couple of very large knives, hopefully police will be there to use whatever force they need to save your life.

The bottom line is, police have their own rules – we have ours. Police can shoot 15 year old kids because they are running around with a couple of knives – we can’t own guns (no public guns is good I will clarify).

See what I’m saying?

Clown Killer said :

They are trained to do this

You’re shitting us right? It’s either dangerous or it’s not. The accepted wisdome is that it’s dangerous and that’s a fair call. The legislation simply grants an exemption to police. I’d love to see how the “train” the police – talking on the phone and steering with your knee 101, and the follow up: Correct procedures for holding a phone jammed between your head and your shoulder when changing gears …

Well, police have a hell of a lot more driver training than most people, but no, there is no one handed driver training!

I can understand your point, but I think you’ll find that most members don’t take advantage of the exemption for the hell of it. In fact, many will pull to the side of the road to take a call if they’re driving, simply for the fact that most people don’t know that police are exempt and it would look hypocritical from the point of view of those people.

dexi said :

dvaey the police can do lots of things you and I are not allowed to. They are trained to do this. You really are on the wrong track. I hope you are not taking pictures while you are driving.

Tooks….(Sorry to cross thread from past history). Notice how some mental kid didn’t “survive” in Melbourne.

You mean the 15 year old?

I guess police work is dangerous then clown killer.

They are trained to do this

You’re shitting us right? It’s either dangerous or it’s not. The accepted wisdome is that it’s dangerous and that’s a fair call. The legislation simply grants an exemption to police. I’d love to see how the “train” the police – talking on the phone and steering with your knee 101, and the follow up: Correct procedures for holding a phone jammed between your head and your shoulder when changing gears …

dvaey the police can do lots of things you and I are not allowed to. They are trained to do this. You really are on the wrong track. I hope you are not taking pictures while you are driving.

Tooks….(Sorry to cross thread from past history). Notice how some mental kid didn’t “survive” in Melbourne.

dvaey said :

Tooks said :

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

I’m wondering why using a hand-held mobile phone is just a fine, and not points off your license. Seems it’s more dangerous to others than not wearing a seatbelt.

Admittedly I’ve never been hit by a flying body so perhaps I’m wrong.

Using a hand-held mobile while driving is a fine AND a loss of 3 demerit points.

You forgot the end of that sentence … “unless you are a police officer”.
How come its an offence for me to look at my phone to see if Ive got an incoming message, but its perfectly okay for a police officer to be typing into his computer, or talking on the police-radio while driving. Not only that, but while often driving in pursuit. If you think this is false.. if a cop starts a pursuit, do you think the cop will call for backup immediately or pull over to the side of the road, as the law demands of every other citizen? I am collecting images of officers in this situation breaking the law, and intend to submit a compilation to the powers-that-be (media) soon.

Lol, are you serious? How about you at least have a look at the relevant legislation before running your mouth off about “collecting images of officers…breaking the law.”

Police are allowed to use a hand-held mobile phone while driving. Are you also suggesting that police pull over to the side of the road every time they use the radio? Have fun taking photos and sending them to the media. I’m sure they’ll have a good laugh before filing them in the nearest bin.

You clearly have no idea about policing (operational or otherwise), bar what you may have seen on Blue Heelers, so I won’t bother dissecting your stupid post any further.

Rule 310 of the Australian Road rules has that one covered.

Tooks said :

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

I’m wondering why using a hand-held mobile phone is just a fine, and not points off your license. Seems it’s more dangerous to others than not wearing a seatbelt.

Admittedly I’ve never been hit by a flying body so perhaps I’m wrong.

Using a hand-held mobile while driving is a fine AND a loss of 3 demerit points.

You forgot the end of that sentence … “unless you are a police officer”.
How come its an offence for me to look at my phone to see if Ive got an incoming message, but its perfectly okay for a police officer to be typing into his computer, or talking on the police-radio while driving. Not only that, but while often driving in pursuit. If you think this is false.. if a cop starts a pursuit, do you think the cop will call for backup immediately or pull over to the side of the road, as the law demands of every other citizen? I am collecting images of officers in this situation breaking the law, and intend to submit a compilation to the powers-that-be (media) soon.

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

I’m wondering why using a hand-held mobile phone is just a fine, and not points off your license. Seems it’s more dangerous to others than not wearing a seatbelt.

Admittedly I’ve never been hit by a flying body so perhaps I’m wrong.

Using a hand-held mobile while driving is a fine AND a loss of 3 demerit points.

the Collision Investigation and Reconstruction Team. Do they get to use a Hornby train for this one?? And when they’re investigating a car crash do they get to reconstruct it with a Scalextric set?

You can go to the CrimeStopper’s website to see those “other” stories that were linked to an error page.

– Be vigilant about suspicious behaviour at ATMs
http://www.act.crimestoppers.com.au/unsolvedcrimes_details.aspx?CrimeId=652

– Police seek witnesses to multiple robberies
http://www.act.crimestoppers.com.au/unsolvedcrimes_details.aspx?CrimeId=651

– Police seize counterfeit money
http://www.act.crimestoppers.com.au/unsolvedcrimes_details.aspx?CrimeId=650

Which is pretty much what I said – bar the obligitory insult.

Danman said :

What kind of tool tries leaves debris on a train track (If it was in fact intentional)
I am guessing 2.5km from Kingston station would be somewhere in teh area of teh Harvey Norman bridge over the lines. Maybe it was an explosive decompression of a graffers can mistakenly left on the main line ?

Probably the same mental defectives who keep spraying graffiti on the walls near the Ipswich St bridge as soon as it is painted over.

I’m wondering why using a hand-held mobile phone is just a fine, and not points off your license. Seems it’s more dangerous to others than not wearing a seatbelt.

Admittedly I’ve never been hit by a flying body so perhaps I’m wrong.

Between Wednesday November 26 and Tuesday December 9, inclusive, police issued 133 fines to people driving while using a hand held mobile phone. In the same period 41 fines were issued for drivers or passengers not wearing seat belts.

The figures are proof – we live among morons! Unbelieveable!

meh – dunno how “Tries” got in there but ignore it 🙂

What kind of tool tries leaves debris on a train track (If it was in fact intentional)
I am guessing 2.5km from Kingston station would be somewhere in teh area of teh Harvey Norman bridge over the lines. Maybe it was an explosive decompression of a graffers can mistakenly left on the main line ?

Take a photo of the person hanging out the window including rego of the car and send it in to Crime Stoppers. See what happens.

Between Wednesday November 26 and Tuesday December 9, inclusive, police issued 133 fines to people driving while using a hand held mobile phone.

Anyone caught using a mobile phone whilst driving should have it inserted up their nether orifice with the aid of a cricket bat.

BB68,

May I suggest you employ a friend to sit behind you in the backseat fo your vehicle, and as you overtake he deploys the ‘garden implement of bueatiful silence’. A gentle love tap to the back of the head at 80km’s, tends to make these people think twice.

H1NG0 said :

I was following a Toyota troopy home from work the other day and there were two unrestrained kids in the back running around. Unbelievable that there are still people out there who do not use seat belts.

Maybe it’s that time of year but twice in the past week I’ve seen idiots driving around Canberra while their equally idiotic friends sit on the window frame of the passenger seat with their head and torso hanging out of the car. Clearly not wearing a belt they were shouting obsenities at passers-by while hanging onto the car roof with one hand. Justice was nearly served when one of these idiots almost came undone when the driver had to negotiate a speed bump.

I was following a Toyota troopy home from work the other day and there were two unrestrained kids in the back running around. Unbelievable that there are still people out there who do not use seat belts.