Police Wrap – 12 December

johnboy 12 December 2008 61

1. A real train wreck! Almost…

    ACT Policing’s Territory Investigations Group is seeking witnesses to an incident this afternoon (Thursday, December 11) in which a Countrylink train struck debris on the line within the ACT, causing damage to the train’s diesel fuel tank.

    The incident occurred at 4.28pm today about 2.5kms from the Canberra Station. The train was able to continue without incident to Canberra Station at Kingston, although the ruptured fuel tank has resulted in the loss of a significant amount of diesel fuel.

    Emergency clean-up crews assisted in the clean-up operation.

    The train involved in the incident was the regular Countrylink service between Sydney and Canberra and had been carrying between 100 to 110 passengers.

    Police have seized evidence. The investigation is being assisted by the Collision Investigation and Reconstruction Team.

    At this time, it is not believed that the debris had the potential to derail the train

2. Belt up, shut up:

    ACT Policing is concerned regarding traffic offence statistics from a two week operation conducted in the in the lead-up to the busy Christmas-New Year holiday period.

    Over 170 fines were issued to people driving while on mobile phones or for occupants of vehicles not wearing seat belts.

    Between Wednesday November 26 and Tuesday December 9, inclusive, police issued 133 fines to people driving while using a hand held mobile phone. In the same period 41 fines were issued for drivers or passengers not wearing seat belts.

    The head of ACT-P’s Traffic Operations, Superintendent Mark Colbran, says these offences will be a focus over the festive period.

    “I am astounded so many people continue to risk their lives and the lives of other members of our community by using hand held mobile phones while driving.

    “Furthermore, evidence clearly shows that wearing a seat belt reduces serious injury and saves lives.

    “Traffic Operations will continue to pay particular attention to these two offences in the lead up to Christmas,” Supt Colbran said.

    The fine for not having a seat belt properly fastened is $249 + 3 points. The fine for using a hand held mobile phone is $237.

3. Pearce man caught with the wrong images:

    ACT Policing have charged a 55-year-old Pearce man with child pornography offences following the execution of a search warrant this morning [11 December].

    About 7am, officers from ACT Policing’s Sexual Assault and Child Abuse Team, Woden Station and AFP Computer Forensics raided the man’s home. During the search it is alleged police found a number of items containing images of child pornography including CDs and video recorder tapes. Police also seized a computer and an external hard drive.

    The man will appear in ACT Magistrates Court this afternoon charged with possessing child pornography and using a carriage service for child pornography material.

4. Interesting looking titles from the AFP’s ACT media releases page that are linking through to error notices are:

Be vigilant about suspicious behaviour at ATMs
Police seek witnesses to multiple robberies
Police seize counterfeit money

If you can help police contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000, or via the Crime Stoppers website on www.act.crimestoppers.com.au.


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61 Responses to Police Wrap – 12 December
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Special G Special G 8:40 pm 17 Dec 08

Generally the only people who are shot by Police are those who are not thinking straight at the time being from drugs or mental illness.

eg:

Cop points gun at person – drop the knife or I am going to shoot you.

Rational person – hmm knife v gun – don’t think I’ll win this one – drops knife and gets on the ground.
Irrational person – bring it on bullets don’t hurt me.

The fact that the kid was sprayed means the cops got to well within a distance that was safe for them to attempt to spray him. At that range the kid could have charged, got shot and probably still stabbed one of the coppers.

Spideydog Spideydog 11:03 am 17 Dec 08

You haven’t answered my question…. “What if one of those officers was your wife/husband/son/daughter and was killed by this youth because they chose not to fire their weapon, in immediate self defence of their life?

If you did answer that question, you may need to point it out, because I could see nowhere where you answered it. You just posed other questions?

tylersmayhem said :

Yet the police association and police commissioner have already come out in favour of the officers, before any enquiry.

Indeed. The most appropriate response at this time would be to say they are waiting for a full enquiry, and will be supportive to the officers in question”. Not to draw conclusions or back up their actions.

The Vicpol executives would have had full and thorough briefings of what happened and I would bet my last dollar that if there was anything untoward, they wouldn’t come out in full support. It would be suicidal for their career.

I see nothing with them coming out in full support of their officers, AFTER receiving a full briefing of events. Police members are citizens of this country too m8 and have the same right of “innocent until proven guilty”

You would boo me off the soapbox eh ?? Well, good for you then. That is the kind of attitude that tells me, that it is YOU that is not open to other peoples opinions.

Now, would you please answer my above question without side stepping it and just posing other examples and questions? Otherwise, it is best we have nothing further to say to each other in this matter as it will drag out forever.

Oh, by the way, I do agree with Tooks 😉

tylersmayhem tylersmayhem 9:06 am 17 Dec 08

Yet the police association and police commissioner have already come out in favour of the officers, before any enquiry.

Indeed. The most appropriate response at this time would be to say they are waiting for a full enquiry, and will be supportive to the officers in question”. Not to draw conclusions or back up their actions.

Spidey: for now I think you need to chill the f**k out mate. You’re going a little EMO and defensive on everyone’s views that do not fit directly in line with yours. If you were on a real soap box, I’d help boo you off.

I have answered your questions, and I have also clarified my support to the police, if that is not good enough, then I suggest a quick nap and lye down and see how you feel afterwards.

Tooks Tooks 7:04 pm 16 Dec 08

tylersmayhem said :

I also completely doubt that a 15 year old boy was unaffected by capsicum spray.

For all those who fully support the action of the police in this case, what if it was your kid?

Age has absolutely nothing to do with the effectiveness of OC spray, so I don’t know why you would “completely doubt” it. I have seen people react to spray as if it was water, others drop to the ground screaming, others will feel the pain but can fight through it.

I don’t believe the police can do no wrong, and I’m not saying that these vicpol guys did the right thing. The inquest may find the officers involved made a horrendous error of judgement, but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt until evidence suggests otherwise.

Spideydog Spideydog 7:02 pm 16 Dec 08

Just to clarify, I don’t think the community is not supportive, I believe that the majority of the community supports and appreciates the Police and the hard job they do. It is the vocal minority and the media the gives the impression that the community is not supportive.

dexi dexi 6:27 pm 16 Dec 08

Somehow I doubt they will get the kind of long term support they will need from the Victorian police force.

If the community is not supportive then I guess they are tired of reading about police shooting mental people.

Spideydog Spideydog 6:05 pm 16 Dec 08

What, you want them to come out and condemn those officers instead ?? Will that make you happy ??

Would your workmates come out and support you in a critical time especially when there is no evidence AT THIS TIME of any wrong doing – I would suggest they would.

You want officers to do a good job, they need support, especially at this horrible time. An incident like this takes a huge hit on morale, especially if the community appears not to be supportive. A number of full inquiries are going to be made that the Police fully support. I am sure they will support the finding of those independent, transparent inquiries.

dexi dexi 5:51 pm 16 Dec 08

“The police won’t get away with it, if indeed there is anything untoward in the Victoria matter.”

Yet the police association and police commissioner have already come out in favour of the officers, before any enquiry.

Spideydog Spideydog 5:03 pm 16 Dec 08

You answered my question by raising other questions….. I answered your question, how about you do me the courtesy and answer mine. You didn’t talk about other incidents, you said “What if it was your son.” I answered that question. You brought up the question, I answered it and posed the same question back at you. Is it alright for you to pose the question, but others can’t to you ??

Did you think for a second that “fellow coppers” didn’t talk about the watch house issue because they may have been ashamed of what he did and subsequently did to the name of hard working “coppers” out there. Did you think for a second that the same “fellow coppers” on this site didn’t talk about the incident because they agreed with the fact it was wrong … ?? I would be worried and concerned if I were you (and support your conspiracy theories more) if these members came out in full support of that watch house officer.

My assumptions are based on what you have written.

The police won’t get away with it, if indeed there is anything untoward in the Victoria matter. The coronial process is independent and transparent and police are called as witnesses like everyone else. They are also subject to the same rules. There are independent witnesses and forensic evidence to consider.

At that time, they did not have tazers to use as another consideration. I for one want my police officers that look after me and my family to have the tools to look after themselves and keep them alive at the end of shift. If there are other “tools” that could be used to avert “deadly force” by all means, that is the best option, but when that doesn’t work and only option left is the firearm “AS A LAST RESORT TO STOP IMMINENT THREAT OF DEATH” then so be it.

tylersmayhem tylersmayhem 4:45 pm 16 Dec 08

You come across as just plain anti-police and spruking conspiracy theories.

You are absolutely so far off the mark Spidey! Reasons behind my “conspiracy” sprout from (while it is UK founded) is the way police often escape proper investigation by creating what has been called a “wall of blue”. While not in Australia, do you recall what happened to the officer involved in the shooting of an innocent man after the bombings. I suppose you would pose your same “what if my wife was an officer” argument. I also recall the shooting of a mentally retarded individual on Bondi beach in the past – doe your argiument apply to that case as well?Just the same way many police have previously gotten away with all kinds of atrocities. In fact I was amazed that fellow coppers recently grassed out the officer who unprovokingly sprayed that dude in the city watch house.

So before you continue with your assumptions rant, keep in mind that I have the utmost respect for most police and the work they do. But yes, I do hold some reservations in the way several cases have been dealt with in history, and if in this day and age the only option is still to shoot to kill, then as humans we are no where near advanced as we give ourselves credit for.

Skidbladnir Skidbladnir 4:43 pm 16 Dec 08

Spideydog said :

And yes I do have a child… I would be asking government to implement tazers ASAP.

Tasers are more effective than pepper spray, for which the use involves causing significant pain to the recipient so they become compliant. But the pain lasts for hours after use, so long as there is residue in the eyes.

But they are not a non-lethal weapon.
Just less lethal than a bullet to the chest.

Spideydog Spideydog 3:56 pm 16 Dec 08

If it were my kid I would expect both a comprehensive police AND coronial enquiry. If my child was running around with knives and attacking police, I wouldn’t expect the best outcome. And yes I do have a child. Police members have families too and want to go home at night. I would be asking government to implement tazers ASAP.

I’ll pose the same question to you… What if one of those police members was your wife/husband/son/daughter and they didn’t fire and was stabbed and killed ?? “It’s OK, it’s in their job description to die for the community” ???? They have the right to defend themselves with the tools they are provided. They are equally accountable for their actions and must be transparent. So, to answer my question, what would you do if one of them was your family member and was killed by this youth, because they chose not to fire ??

tylersmayhem said :

I also completely doubt that a 15 year old boy was unaffected by capsicum spray. I think there are many questions that need to be answered – and sadly never will be. The final picture will be drawn by the police, FOR the police. Selling the picture the want for whatever political leverage possible.

For all those who fully support the action of the police in this case, what if it was your kid?

You come across as just plain anti-police and spruking conspiracy theories. Capsicum spary affects 80% of people 80% of the time, not including other factors, ie people on ICE are less affected and sometimes appear not at all affected, weather conditions, etc, etc.

Do you really think that these police officers came on shift ready to shoot someone. You paint the picture of “stuff the capsicum spray, lets just shoot him and we will rig our stories up later” M8 you really have some issues if that is what you think of Police. I do respect your right to an opinion, I just think that it is a little over the top.

Anyways the full story WILL come out after the coronial, regardless of your thoughts of conspiracy theories.

tylersmayhem tylersmayhem 10:49 am 16 Dec 08

I also completely doubt that a 15 year old boy was unaffected by capsicum spray. I think there are many questions that need to be answered – and sadly never will be. The final picture will be drawn by the police, FOR the police. Selling the picture the want for whatever political leverage possible.

I understand the difficult decision that the police needed to make at the time, and that those involved will need to live with this for the rest of their lives – but I am also concerned that OUR police are becoming very US style in their approach and action. Next thing you know, they’ll walk up to your car with a finger on the trigger for RBT’s and checks – just like in the USA.

For all those who fully support the action of the police in this case, what if it was your kid?

tylersmayhem tylersmayhem 10:44 am 16 Dec 08

he bloke I was with asked one of the policemen what was going on. Receiving no response, he asked if they’d shot someone. I shit you not, the bloke reached for his gun.

I’m surprised that your mate would ask a copper such things when there is clearly s**t going down man!

farnarkler farnarkler 10:01 am 16 Dec 08

A well placed rubber bullet would’ve dropped the kid and he’d (probably) still be alive.

Skidd Marx Skidd Marx 9:53 am 16 Dec 08

Amazing the think the Vic coppers are using a revolver which was patented 106 years ago and has remained unchanged since. I’m surprised they aren’t still driving around in T-Models since they’re actually 6 years more modern than the ’38 Special.

farnarkler farnarkler 9:50 am 16 Dec 08

If the Vic cops had had tasers the victim would probably be still alive.

johnboy johnboy 9:43 am 16 Dec 08

There’s a difference between that which you are instructed to do, and that which you’re given enough range time to actually achieve.

poptop poptop 9:43 am 16 Dec 08

I think the point is that the Vic Police are better shots.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 9:41 am 16 Dec 08

I thought all police were taught to aim for the centre of mass. I would have thought that Victorian police kill more people because they shoot more people.

Reminds me of a time I was walking along Laigon Street in Melbourne, and something must have gone down, because there were police swarming everywhere around a restaurant. The bloke I was with asked one of the policemen what was going on. Receiving no response, he asked if they’d shot someone. I shit you not, the bloke reached for his gun.

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