9 November 2006

So does this mean Mr Stanhope supports Hussein's dictatorial leadership style?

| Indi
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Now we all know that the death penalty is a pretty extreme form of punishment that is (mostly) delved out for horrible crimes against humanity. Of course here is Australia we chose long ago to abolish such an approach to delivering justice, I believe mainly because we had become a mature nation with no need to go down the path of an ‘eye for an eye’ road.

But my conscience starts to waver when we see that Mr Hussein has finally been delivered a piece of his own form of ‘justice’ and will now be given the hang ’em high treatment.

True to form Mr Stanhope has seen fit again to contribute, passing some interesting judgement about another country’s legal proceedings as they relate to the sentencing of Mr Hussein – now granted Mr Howard did see fit to comment as ‘our leader’.

The comment I found most interesting from Our Brave Leader here in the ACT was enlightening to say the least:

Mr Stanhope said Australia ostensibly opposed the death penalty, yet its refusal to reiterate that opposition when other nations handed down death sentences – except when it involved Australian prisoners – created an air of ambivalence that was impossible to dispel, at home or abroad.


a) the spawn of satan himself should be allowed to roam the planet again even though an undisclosed number of people from all arabic tribes in and around Iraq suffered for decades under his torturous rule. OR

b)take the medicine dished out to him by a court of law mandated by its government to deliver the death sentence as it sees fit. OR

c) Mr Hussein should be provided with an undisclosed, underground residence (much like the one in which he was found quivering in whilst hiding from US forces) for the term of his natural life.

[ED – Personally I like T-Shirt Hell’s take on this.

Please please please Mr. Stanhope write them an outraged letter as I’d love to see it on a thing page]

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I’ll be waiting out for our dear leaders to start donning the karki’s with plenty of their own self-awarded medals…

If Stanhope had his way he’d be the same colour as Kofi! 🙂

barking toad4:21 pm 10 Nov 06

if jon had his way he’d be wearing koffi annan’s hat

and doing just as well as him

Where was Jon Stanhope when the AFP dobbed in the Bali Nine, with information provided by their own parents? This instance of the death penalty is far more relevant to Australia (and even Canberra, via the AFP connection) than Saddam. If Jon had his way we would have nothing to do with Iraq.

barking toad3:43 pm 10 Nov 06

And today in crikey some slapper named Ros suggests in response to the comment yesterday about who gives a flying fuck what nohope thinks about saddam’s sentence says “I expect there are probably more who are interested in John Stanhope’s views as those who care what Kerr thinks.”

Well I’ve got fuckin’ news for you toots!

I think you’re going to be sober for a long time, Vic, looking at the state of the Libs…

Vic Bitterman11:03 pm 09 Nov 06

I will raise my glass and shout 3 hearty cheers when stanhope is outed in the next election.

Not long to go now….

Bring on a decent CM for Canberra.

Maybe Jon is hoping to save Saddam so he can offer him the job as the Territory’s next Education Minister?

if the potholes on my road were repaired, if the gde had been finished two years ago, if there was a proper public transport system etc

then id excuse his eccentric penchant for leaping into the grownups pool with his floaties on via his bizarre little ejaculations on Important Matters.

but since he cant even solve the problems of a geographically small, well funded, city state – i dont see how his views on Important Matters carry any credence whatsoever.

barking toad4:12 pm 09 Nov 06

Back on topic – one of the crikey blokes has picked up on the nohope press release and asks if anyone gives a flying fuck about the media tarts view on saddam’s sentence.

well it doesn’t sound anti-faeces, anyway…

allegedly tisms’s ‘defecate on my face’ is an anti-fascist song…

Absent Diane3:58 pm 09 Nov 06

hehe i remember p-harness.. albeit very vaguely.

Absent Diane3:31 pm 09 Nov 06

this is serious mum.

TISM is (was) a band – This Is Serious Mum

I would like to add P-Harness to Mr Evils list.

Anyone who has a song called “I wish I was a big as Belconnen Mall” has got my vote

Isnt TISM a band?

What is TISM?

I an not anti death pentalty for certain crimes. Paedophillia, rape, and murder (particularly mass ones) seem to fit the bill for me.

Before I get flamed, this is MY OPINION.

mr shab – whenever i see ‘holocaust revisionist’ i read ‘anti-semite axe-grinder’.

the evidence is irrefutable.

soviets liquidated entire peoples. they transported populations from one side of the ussr to the other on several occasions.

there used to be a jewish soviet state, but it was eradicated by stalin. there was also an ethnic german soviet state, it also was eradicated by stalin.

soviet troops had their own liquidation gangs similar to the einsatzgruppen. the murder of the polish officer corp by the russians was well publicised post war.

travel around the baltic states and you will find many mentions of soviet era war crimes. resistance to the soviet continued until the late 1960’s when the last ‘forest brother’ drowned himself in a lake rather than surrender.

many peopel regarded the strong baltic volunteer enlistment to the nazi cause as being pro-nazi, the reality is that it was more anti-soviet than anything else. the baltic states had freed themselves post ww1 but were invaded by the soviets prior to ww2 and when the germans blitzkrieged the soviets out in 1941 the balts were happy to assist.

that backfired badly when the tide turned in 1944.

Well – WWII and the aftermath thereof was a litany of people dying, most of whom didn’t in any way, shape or form “deserve it”.

Bonfire – you’re quite correct in saying that it wasn’t just the Jews who suffered in the Concentration Camps. However, the Holocaust revisionists tend to have a beef with the Jews more than the Gypsies, the Communists, the Homosexuals, the trade unionists, the Soviets, the political dissenters and the mentally and physically handicapped who died in their droves alongside them.

Chris S, I expect it would be when Howard (as the Prime Minister of a country that opposes the death penalty) leads the cheer squad for an execution in Texas.

Absent Diane2:39 pm 09 Nov 06

and didn’t russia liquidate a large number of their own troops as well – on top of what the nazis did?

theres no doubt the nazis were equal opportunity mass murderers. if you visit any of the concentration camps you will see that jewish murders dont dominate the historical displays.

in fact they point out that originally the camps were for political prisoners, then homosexuals, then gypsys etc it seems like the nazis just decided to wipe out whatever wasnt ‘aryan’.

i think more russians were liquidatedin the camps than jews, but i couldnt be 100% certain without checking. certainly at auschwitz-berkenau the plight of russians is detailed.

i have to disagree with: ‘some Zionists use it as an excuse to commit some pretty horrific crimes of their own.’

i think defence of the state of israel is a seperate issue to the holocaust.

anywho, how about that saddaam hey…

Aha, thanks for the oblique history lesson, Mr_Shab.

Just in the news:
A man was executed in Texas today for shooting dead another man…(This) was the 24th person executed in Texas this year and the 379th put to death in the state since it resumed capital punishment in 1982.

As someone noted earlier in this thread, where is Stanhope’s outrage at other executions?

Sorry, “the thing that pisses me off….” DOH!

The think that pisses me off about the Holocaust is that some Zionists use it as an excuse to commit some pretty horrific crimes of their own.

Also, people tend to forget that it wasn’t only Jews who were persecuted by the Nazis: there were plenty of non-Jews who went through the Concentration Camps gates too.

Absent Diane1:32 pm 09 Nov 06

funnily enough I saw a doco on the yank who ‘re-invented’ the electric chair.. he was convinced that the holocaust didn’t happen.. had all this ridiculous proof. a complete fucking sicko.

Simto – my reference to Nuremburg was a bit more oblique, more aimed at bonfire’s remark.

I gather Churchill wanted the “second bananas” summarily executed, but his hand was stayed. Nuremburg was (at least in hindsight) more aimed at formally establishing the truth of who was responsible for what, and getting it on the record.

I’m personally glad for Nuremburg, as it gives historians supporting data whenever some crackpot says that the Holocaust was “made up” or “a conspiracy of Zionists”.

Absent Diane1:07 pm 09 Nov 06

yeah.. nsw seems to have lost it since carr quit. perhaps carr was exceptionally good at making sure the dodgey shit didn’t get out.

Saddam looks weird when not in military garb… i will never forget how pathetic he looked when they found him though.. that was brilliant.

Stanhope is great at playing the big statesman, so long as it gets him off having to deal with issues in his own jurisdiction.

By the way, isn’t it interesting to see that Saddam doesn’t look so big a brave once his soldiers and weapons have been taken away from him. He now looks like a used car salesman in his suit.

Nope, Nuremberg had a lot of second-bananas, given that a lot of the men at the top had inconveniently decided to top themselves rather than get captured.

Whatever else you can say about it, at least this one has the big cheese in the dock.

Kind of a ham-fisted Nuremberg?

Absent Diane10:16 am 09 Nov 06

yeah they could of shot him on site… but by not shooting him he has to go through the torment of getting handed back to his angry country folk and being made accountable for what he has done, in his own former country.

stanhope did the wrong thing putting out the press release.

yet another example of his hubris.

they should have shot saddam when they dragged him from his hole.

barking toad10:04 am 09 Nov 06

Nohopes next effort will be to put out a mayoral press release on our behalf lauding the democrats winning control of the house of reps in the US of A.

Followed closely by one blaming Dubya and Johhny for global warming.

But I guess he won’t release one condemning muslim extremists for beheading christian schoolgirls.

There’s only some grandstands the puffy chested mayor will climb into.

Woody Mann-Caruso9:59 am 09 Nov 06

I forgot to add that if you’re an absolute relativist who believes that the law of the land must prevail, then you find yourself in the unfortunate position of believing that everything Saddam did was right – he was the ruler of the country, after all, and I’m sure he signed all the paperwork.

Absent Diane9:57 am 09 Nov 06

back in the 90’s I disliked tism.. but whenever I hear them these days.. I love them. weird what time and nostalgia does.

Woody Mann-Caruso9:57 am 09 Nov 06

There are many different cultures around the globe. Some of them still support the death penalty.

That’s called “absolute relativism”, and it’s an unsustainable ethical, moral and logical ground. If you really believe this, then you support slavery in countries where it is legal, you support genocide where governments sign it into law, you support mutilating the genitals of young girls because it’s “the culture”, and so on.

The Greeks had this sorted out millenia ago. If you claim that all beliefs are relative, then that must include the belief that all beliefs are relative, which means that a person who claims that no beliefs are relative is also right. In other words, if I claim that no belief can be right or wrong, and that it all depends on a point of view, then I’m right. However, if I claim that all of your beliefs are absolutely wrong, I’m right as well. You can’t have it both ways.

I agree with the death sentence being handed down to the following people:

Beatles fans.


Germaine Greer and anyone who agrees with her.

Jon Stanhope.

Anyone who doesn’t like TISM.

Everyone who watches or is involved with Idol or Big Brother.

The cast of Home and Away, Neighbours and McLeod’s Daughters.

Ray Martin.


Shane Warne.


Those people from Indian call centres.

Poptop, if you’re going to overthrow a tyrant a lot of good people are likely to die in the process.

The tyrant may as well be one of them.

Didn’t do their election hopes any good now did it?

ChrisinTurner4:35 am 09 Nov 06

It has been suggested that the USA needs Saddam dead to prevent him giving evidence against his cousin concerning the USA supply of the poison gas used against the Kurds.

One of the questions that generally comes up about now in any death penalty debate is around how invoking it impacts the society, rather than the individual who has been removed. The function of society is, generally, to protect the individuals within it. If society decides to step away from that position how does it affect the ethical structure of that society.

One of our BIG rules is about not killing; once we go down the path of allowing conscious, legal and considered exceptions it all gets a bit murky IMO.

it’s not the crime i’m talking about, it’s the position of the criminal.

The guy at the top of the pile doesn’t live by the same rules as the rest of us and neither should his punishments.

Absent Diane9:12 pm 08 Nov 06

johnboy I do agree with that… that him being alive means there is a threat of him coming back.

I would just like to see him live to a ripe old age.. lonely.. with nothing but his memories and the odd bit – well a fair bit – of tormenting.. in a dank cell somewhere in the USA.i think my punishment is more fitting and more sadistic to be honest.

The only issue other than what johnboy said that i can see is that if he is alive it would give his followers some kind of hope. but killing him also gives them cause for revenge.

but ultimately he would suffer more alive.

barking toad8:42 pm 08 Nov 06

and adding “whining arrogant cunt” improves it

barking toad8:40 pm 08 Nov 06

“pathetic grandstanding”

sums it up it well poptop

johnboy: you could say the same thing of murderers – if we don’t kill them, they could be let out or escape and kill again. Frankly, you could make the same argument for any crime. What makes being in power while you did it a special case? Or are you suggesting, as your first line seems to imply, that every dictator removed from power should be killed on the spot, “just to be sure”? (I’m not trying to put words in your mouth here – I’m seriously trying to understand your stance).

Regardless of the diverse views about invoking capital punishment [for the record I’m against it] I think it is a breathtaking example of arrogance and opportunism by our Chief Minister.

There have been about 50 people lethally injected by the judicial system in the USA so far in 2006. I don’t recall seeing those media releases from Mr Stanhope.

Pathetic grandstanding.

There are many different cultures around the globe. Some of them still support the death penalty.

Its not up to us to pass judgement on other peoples laws. If you go into someone elses house you live by their rules. Simple.

Its been shown the death penalty doesn’t stop people committing crimes, but then again the ACT Judiciary doesn’t stop anyone doing anything they want.

barking toad5:45 pm 08 Nov 06

I don’t really care if nohope expresses a personal opinion condemning the death penalty of the murderous thug. Or even if he offers his opinion as leader of the local labor party.

But it fucking pisses me off when he puts out a taxpayer funded press release purporting to offer his misguided opinion as mayor of Canberra on our behalf.

My opinion of an appropriate sentence for saddam would be for an impaling ala Vlad’s method with prime time free-to-air coverage complete with surround sound and slow motion close-up replays.

And it seems the mayors of surrounding towns don’t find it necessary to express opinions on international affairs on behalf of their communities.

AD, you want to lock him up privately with jerk material for the rest of his life? How generous you are.




Things change and fortunes reverse.

If he isn’t dead he could always be coming back.

Absent Diane4:59 pm 08 Nov 06

I see what your saying.. but I think the fact that he has been deposed and incarcarated for life (hopefully under conditions in which he can’t forget what he has done) is sign enough that world won’t suffer tyranny. And he would be living proof of it.

I agree with Spectra.

Either you agree with the death penalty or you disagree with it. You can’t have it both ways.

Either you agree with the execution of Australians like Schapelle Corby (remember there was a possibility that she could have faced the death sentence), Scott Rush, Van Nguyen et al as well as Saddam Hussein, the Bali bombers and other such unsympathetic types or you disagree with it.

When Australian leaders give the nod to the death penalty for vile types like Hussein and then cry “oh no not our citizens” when an Aussie’s life is on the line, it just makes us look like a bunch of racist, ignorant hypocrites.

I say execution is too easy for him. Make him suffer the remainder of his natural life in gaol like a common prisoner. A humiliation such as this for a man like Hussein, who obviously has some ego, seems like a much worse punishment to me.

I disagree, if you’re going to depose a king you have to kill him too.

To be unwilling to do that is to, at the end of it all, to tolerate tyranny.

Anyway surely democracy must allow that other people in other polities will come up with different laws.

Absent Diane4:53 pm 08 Nov 06

I think it would be better to lock him in a cage and repeatedly replay the kind of atrocities he was responsible for on a video screen. killing him is letting him off too lightly.. and you have to remember in his head he will probably thinking he is off to paradise as a martyr.

If you really think we’re mature enough to not lower ourselves to “eye for an eye” style retaliation, you can’t really say “except for this guy, because he was really really bad”. Either you’re opposed to the death penalty, or you think there’s a place for it and it’s simply a matter of the degree of the crime. Personally, I’m in the former camp, and am disappointed to see leaders of countries that claim to share that view refusing to condemn it in this case because it might be unpopular to do so.

On the local angle, I’m not convinced that it’s our CM’s place to be commenting on this, but it’s certainly consistent with his previous form.

I imagine the comrade is hoping the mobs of angry parents will follow his merciful example come December 13.

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