Suing for lack of a torch?

Poptop, I have read the original article, as I do have the ability to read, as well as to think for myself such as in the recent smoking thread where JB and I had quite differing opinions.

I think the apparent inability to read the original article and JB’s sense of the ridiculous (?) are probably part of the problem here.

The claim is also about the stairs not complying with the relevant code.

If JB had posted this as ‘stupid community organisation injures old lady volunteer through gross negligence’ the discussion could have been quite different.

We are his clay.

)-0_0-(

PsydFX said :

Workplace safety is not the sole responsibility of the individual, an OH&S assesment should have been made which would have outlined the potential for injury.

So if you see a frayed power cord at work, do you go “Not my problem”? Or do you do something about it?

Yes, they probably should have done an OH&S audit, but how do you know one was not done? We only really know the following facts,

1 – She injured herself.
2 – She claims a torch could have prevented the injury.
3 – She is suing everyone because no one provided her a torch.

Beyond these three facts we really don’t know anything. Based on these three facts which the media has given us we can only come to the following determinations

1 – The area required either additional lighting or a guard rail to make the area safe

2 – The person should have identified the fact that they where entering an unsafe area based on their own limitations. (Who knows, a 60 year olds eye sight may not be as good as a 30 year olds, and thus had the person had better eye sight no issue would have existed, not every job is suited to every person)

3 – Rectifying the safety issues was well within the person power, by either requesting a torch from the venue, the organisers or by supplying one of her own.

I will agree with poptop though, it may be a ruse to simply get the insurance companies to cough up under public liability, rather than going to the org itself.

It seems we are drawing an awful lot of “evidence” from a brief article in The Crimes (what’s wrong with this picture?)

It is possible Ms Robbins is a litigious vampire, merely seeking to suck the lifeblood of an innocent community art organisation. Personally, I would try for a richer victim to rort(the Canberra Centre with the travelator of doom springs to mind)

It is also possible that the organisation stuffed up and was negligent. Walking off a brightly lit stage into a darkened auditorium can be disorienting,in which case a hand rail may have been the required safety thingy.

It is even conceivable that the case is actually about getting the insurance company to cough up on the liability claim.

It sounds like she was volunteering in this amateur production. So noone was forcing her to take part, and if she felt the stairs were too much for her she should have said so.

I am sorry she got injured, but I think it is a pity for her to have jumped straight into a law suit.

Now any other older people who want to take part in productions will probably be discouraged for fear of more law suits.

If she fell on her back step that would be her problem as it is an environment that she is responsible for, however she has had an accident in an environment where other people had a duty of care to ensure that it is a safe environment.

I’m sure legal action wasn’t her first course of action, but with everyone denying accountability it would the only the way for her to seek compensation.

What I am trying to say is that if she slipped and fell on her back steps without any railing, she wouldn’t be so quick to place the blame on the environment.

If society continues to be so litigious then people will be too scared to risk amateur theatre or street theatre or whatever.

You can already see the effects of this in the boring play equipment today’s kids have to endure, which is far inferior in terms of providing vestibular stimulation and cognitive development.

I also feel that lawsuits are particularly nasty and not something I would do to a friend or group that I claimed to support.

How many people are going to want to invite her over to dinner in case it’s been raining and the steps are slippery? How many people are going to want to offer her parts in their performances?

I am sure that people would have done everything they could to help and support her if she hadn’t turned on them and slapped them with a whopping lawsuit.

Sue me, but that is my opinion. I think everyone knows how I feel on this topic by now, so I really have nothing more to say.

Workplace safety is not the sole responsibility of the individual, an OH&S assesment should have been made which would have outlined the potential for injury.

PsydFX, the problem I have is that she is suing over an accident that she her self had the power to prevent. Yes, maybe they should have been more vigilent, however OH&S is everyones responsibility. Did she bring the issue to the attention of anyone? Was she told she was not allowed to have a torch?

There comes a point where these people need to say “Well I really F*cked Up, didn’t I”, and that’s all that is done and said about the manner.

I personally believe that suing should be reserved for obvious negligence only, eg a boss been told that an area is unsafe, and yet penny pinching means they refuse to rectify the fault, we need to bring back some degree of personal responsibility.

Also this has nothing to do with disabled access, or mothers with prams, this has everything to do with a person not using the gray stuff on top of their shoulders.

You were doing so well until that last par PsydFX.

Consider yourself warned about abusing other commenters.

For a crowd who will argue until they are blue in the face regarding accessability rights for mothers and the disabled, I’m certainly suprised and frankly disgusted to see the opinions displayed here towards and eldery women who has suffered as a result of an avoidable accident.

If this was a disabled person, or a mother carrying a child that had fallen down the stairs, there would be massive outcry from the majority of people on this site about the facilities not being accomodating to their needs. This women isn’t making your “american style” lawsuit, she isn’t asking for massive amounts of money, she is merely asking for a $18,000 to cover medical expenses, and lost wages.

Granny, I think your comments are particularly disgusting especially considering some of the past comments you’ve made in support of creating an accessible environment for everyone. In this case, the environment was not suitable to this persons needs and she had an accident. Stop being a bitch and show some compassion.

I just want to know who she’s going to sue when she has a fall in her own home in ten years’ time.

I sympathise with her losing two weeks pay, only because a clerical worker for the Uniting Church is probably on the lowest wage in Canberra!

That said, it’s important to think carefully before bringing a lawsuit that might bump up insurance costs and scare risk-averse bureaucrats.

Anyone recall the glory days of Splinters Theatre of Spectacle? That was so much fun – and very dangerous indeed. One perfomance was the steps of the Canberra Theatre, no less, with the full consent of Canberra Theatre management – handheld fireworks, drums of fire teetering on badly soldered stands, falling over and showering live coals on audience members. Those were the days! Only 15 years ago …

It would certainly have added a bit of drama ….

; )

The whole thing must have taken the glamour out of opening night.

As absurd as this seems, she has a decent case.

As we all know OHS is a big thing, but it’s not to be taken lightly with live shows etc. of any scale. Although backstage is generally a dark area pre, during & post show it’s still possible to use lights. Yes it’s still very dark (think of a blue light every 10m), but basically everyone should ‘HTFU’ because there’s no business like show business and having a day-maker blaring backstage probably wont get a lot of bums on seats after your first show.

I do sympathise that she has been injured, but seriously she needs to grow-up; or at least learn how to stand up and generally walk around by herself.

peterh said :

Loose Brown2 said :

I object to the claims above by WMC that this woman is aligned somehow with Jesus.

If she was a practicing Christian, then she wouldn’t sue a community organisation – she would turn instead turn the other cheek.

depends where she landed.

Given that she sustained injuries to her right ankle, right thigh, both hips and lower back, I’d say both cheeks were in contact with the hard stuff already…

Ha ha haa!

Loose Brown2 said :

I object to the claims above by WMC that this woman is aligned somehow with Jesus.

If she was a practicing Christian, then she wouldn’t sue a community organisation – she would turn instead turn the other cheek.

depends where she landed.

I object to the claims above by WMC that this woman is aligned somehow with Jesus.

If she was a practicing Christian, then she wouldn’t sue a community organisation – she would turn instead turn the other cheek.

Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree, Poptop, on both counts.

Thanks for the laugh, Vic Bitterman. Gold. 🙂

The community organisation involved will have insurance. While a payout will impact on everyone’s premiums, payout will only happen if the court finds some sort on negligence.

The article suggests that the claim is based on at least one of the organisations not complying with a legal requirement and through this negligence have contributed to the injury of Ms Robbins.

In a principled sort of way this is very similar to the arguement about behaviour at the Summer Nats – if women know the yobs at the Nats are breaking the law and choose to go anyway, getting harrassed is their fault too. No-one holds a gn to their heads either.

Both debates are about legal compliance.

Ok, I am not a great afficionado of the stage, but I have seldom seen handrails on steps leading to or from one.

Why volunteer to assist a non-profit organisation if you’re just going to ruin them because you have an accident?

She knew there was no handrail before she chose to descend …. No-one held a gun to her head and forced her.

I’m with Weird Al on this.

We all have accidents and it is unfortunate that people get hurt, but it’s not automatically somebody else’s fault.

Ms Robbins… …was not given instructions by the singers in how to hand out song sheets while climbing dimly lit backstage stairs.

There is so much wrong with that sentence…

So a 60 year old woman falls down some steps, in the dark and apparently partially due to the absence of hand rails or compliace with the relevant building regulations. She injures her ankle, right thigh, both hips and lower back.

Sounds like a win for Ms Robbins to me.

Granny said :

Well, it’s like ‘pardon me for building some stairs so you don’t have to pole vault off stage’ ….

LOL!

seeing a 60 yo pole vault off the stage…
that would have added to the entertainment.

Well, it’s like ‘pardon me for building some stairs so you don’t have to pole vault off stage’ ….

Granny said :

She’d probably sue me for not warning her that flames burn!

I don’t think she would want to ask for more flames…

She’d probably sue me for not warning her that flames burn!

Granny said :

I’d give her a torch alright and tell her where she could stick it!

*waits for flames*

as long as it wasn’t a flaming one…

Eddie Murpohy sprung to mind immediately reading this.

“Then my aunt Bunny would fall down the steps.
Almost every year.

Ever had a heavy set aunt fall down the steps?
Make a whole lotta f***ing noise !

It’s scary, too, ‘cos they’ll be
calling Jesus on the way down !

And aunts don’t like to fall straight
down the steps like a kid,

They be trying to break the fall
and hold it and stop the sh**.

And that’s what makes
the fall take a half hour then.

Real loud, like:

“Lord, Jesus Christ, help my lord,
please, Jesus, please !”

“Jesus, God, help, my lord, Jesus, help me I’m falling
down the steps oh lord Jesus Christ please !”

“My shoe !”

“Oh lord Jesus God help us !”

“I’m half way down now help my lord Jesus !”

“Lilian !”
“What is all that f***in’ noise ?!”

“Lilian !
The bi*ch is falling down the steps again !”

“Lilian ! Lilian !”
“What’s wrong, Bunny ?”

“I fell down the steps !”

“Bunny fell down the steps ! Bunny fell down the steps !”

Eddie, go get your aunt Bunny
something cool for her head !”

“What happened ?”
“Bunny fell down the steps !”

“Hey, Charlie ! Aunt Bunny fell down the steps !”

“Gus ! What the f*** is wrong with your wife ?”

“Why can’t she walk the fryer steps?
You come up every f***in’ year, Gus…”

“… and you burn down my motherf***er backyard
and your wife rips down the steps !”

“Why ? I work hard to get my place beautiful…”

“…and then the motherf***er come over
and rips the steps down !”

“Look at the motherf***er steps !
They’re f***ed up, Gus !”

“Why can’t she walk the steps ?
You know why she can’t walk the steps ?”

“‘cos she’s a fat hairy bi*ch !
That’s why !”

“That’s why, Gus !
And my children are afraid of your wife.”

I’d give her a torch alright and tell her where she could stick it!

*waits for flames*

You mean Jeebus didn’t save her? Maybe He pushed her instead.

Haha, loving your work as always WMC! 🙂 Cheers!

neanderthalsis said :

The daft old trout has probably been watching too much Judge Judy and decided to trade her pride for a chance at some quick dollars in an out of court settlement.

Makes sense. She probably wasn’t using it anyway ….

a clerical officer with the Uniting Church

You mean Jeebus didn’t save her? Maybe He pushed her instead.

The daft old trout has probably been watching too much Judge Judy and decided to trade her pride for a chance at some quick dollars in an out of court settlement.

Does the woman have no pride? I would be embarrassed to sue others for my own incompetence. It just makes it harder for those who are injured through no fault of their own.

from the article:
It is further claimed that Ms Robbins, who had to take two weeks off from her job as a clerical officer with the Uniting Church, was not given instructions by the singers in how to hand out song sheets while climbing dimly lit backstage stairs.

And I thought it was us men that can’t multi-task…

If she needs instruction in how to hand out song sheets, there is something seriously wrong with her mental ability.

Gilbert and Sullivan would have had fun with the likes of Ms Robbins.

She could be added to The Lord High Executioner’s “little list” if the same group of players ever stage The Mikado.

Hang on. The Belco Comm Theatre is a “black box” theatre. There aren’t any backstage stairs.

The only way this could happen is if the stairs were part of the set constructed by ACT Singers, and as far as I know, the Belco Comm Centre and ACT Gov have no input in the set construction.

However, these days most groups are very careful about things like handrails and backstage lighting. In fact if you use scaffolding as the core of your set construction, it has to be inspected before anyone in the cast can set foot on it.

This happened on opening night. I wonder if she brought up concerns about the stairs and lighting during the preceding tech runs?

I’ve performed on some dodgy sets in the past, pre-insurance-worries days of community theatre, and while I don’t have all the info on this case, I’d tend to agree with fnaah.

Having crewed on a couple of shows as a lad, I have no sympathy for the “victim”.

Backstage is dark. If you can’t remember where the stairs are, you have no business being backstage during a performance.